Vunlerability

[Bea_]

A recently closed thread included some discussion about skirts and dresses. Some comments offered a simplistic explanation of what might cause a man to notice a woman in a skirt. But, the big takeaway from GG experiences is that skirts and dresses inherently make the wearer more vulnerable. That thought reminded me of my own past thoughts about wearing a skirt or dress in public. When I?ve considered the idea of being out in a dress or skirt, I?ve had to acknowledge to myself that I would at an absolute disadvantage if I had to encountered a need to defend myself while potentially increasing the need to defend myself.

I have only worn dresses and skirts at home and a few times to therapy sessions, so I don?t have direct experience in that regard. I was wondering if others had experiences or thoughts on the matter.

[Cheryl T]

I would agree with the assessment that skirts and dresses do make a woman more vulnerable. I know that I am aware of certain things more when I wear them and I do feel that I would be more vulnerable to an attacker.
For some the attraction to them may just be that, a desire to feel more vulnerable. I prefer them simply because they are more feminine than slack and jeans and that harkens back to my youth when women rarely wore anything but skirts and dresses.

[docrobbysherry]

While I've been frightened a couple of times when men have approached me while out dressed, that had nothing to do with whether I was wearing a skirt or dress, Bea.:eek:

As for feeling vulnerable? I think the fact that when I'm out dressed, (99% of the time in a skirt or dress), I'm wearing hi spike heels which nullifies such feelings. Altho, I could never outrun anyone in 4"+ heels? I could certainly send them to the hospital with a well placed kick!:devil:

[Bea_]

For some the attraction to them may just be that, a desire to feel more vulnerable. I prefer them simply because they are more feminine than slack and jeans and that harkens back to my youth when women rarely wore anything but skirts and dresses.

Even though I know that there is an outside chance of having to defend myself physically, it's the knowledge that a large portion of the population in my area would have a negative opinion of a MIAD (even if nothing was said). I have worn leggings/yoga pants to the gym a few times and never felt too negative of a vibe from others. A dress would be harder to just "own".

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As for feeling vulnerable? I think the fact that when I'm out dressed, (99% of the time in a skirt or dress), I'm wearing hi spike heels which nullifies such feelings. Altho, I could never outrun anyone in 4"+ heels? I could certainly send them to the hospital with a well placed kick!:devil:

The thought of heels came to mind as I was posting but didn't want to complicate things. I haven't done heels and, while i'm curious, it's not a priority. The biggest physical problem I see with them is that running would be instinctive and could lead to an injury even if the threat turned out not to be as legitimate as thought.

[Genifer Teal]

I could see feeling vulnerable in the sense of feeling more exposed, not so much in the sense of no longer denying access. I could compare it to the feeling of wearing a bikini. You might as well be naked. It's vulnerability, but in the sense that you're so exposed. More eyes on you' every part of you. In your average situations, I wouldn't think twice wearing a short skirt. It wouldn't make me feel much different. As long as it's appropriate for where I go.

[DianeT]

What kind and what length of skirt and dress are we talking about? It may not change much in the area of vulnerability, but it changes much in the area of signals being sent. Between an ankle-length cotton skirt with sneakers and a sweater and a short PVC skirt with high heels and a boob tube, there is always the possibility that a simplistic mind may interpret the thing differently in terms of accessibility.

[Susan_Michaela]

Confucius says, women who wear skirts or dresses shouldn?t be too concerned because woman can run faster with dress up than man can with pants down. Just a quote I?ve heard in past.

[DianeT]

But, the big takeaway from GG experiences is that skirts and dresses inherently make the wearer more vulnerable. That thought reminded me of my own past thoughts about wearing a skirt or dress in public. When I?ve considered the idea of being out in a dress or skirt, I?ve had to acknowledge to myself that I would at an absolute disadvantage if I had to encountered a need to defend myself while potentially increasing the need to defend myself.

I don't think that when GGs say they feel more vulnerable in a skirt they mean they would less aptly fight against an aggressor. That looks to me like a masculine way of thinking (how am I going to punch my way out of this). I think they mean a million of things, the potential undesirable attention, the feeling of being more exposed physically, souvenirs of small agressions they experienced in the past (most grown up women have a tale or two about sexual abuses they were victims of, from the occasional exhibitionist to the predators touching them in crowded areas like public transportations, and sometimes much, much worse; every man should ask the women in their families about this and would be surprised by the extent of the phenomenon, women just don't speak about these things, or didn't use to), souvenirs of little boys trying to lift little girls' skirts, of mothers telling them to never let anyone see their panties, etc. The fact that women have vaginas and men penises also leads to different fears, sometimes different psychosis (castration for men, things entering or contaminating their intimacy for women). I've heard all these things from women, directly and indirectly, but I've never heard one asking herself if she could fight better or worse when wearing a skirt or heels. Not saying that no woman ever reflected on it, but it clearly doesn't come up as a main preoccupation, while it is a constant theme with CDers posting in threads dealing with this kind of subject.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

I know several women who sometimes wear skirts or dresses in public, and "vulnerable" is not a word I would use to describe them. (Neither would "accessible" btw) They are aware of who's around them, they're ready for a problem, and they avoid places where a problem would be likely.

The argument that a woman showing some leg or shoulders makes them vulnerable or accessible is offensive to all women. Making stupid or ignorant decisions makes one vulnerable, and someone has to make the decision for his/her self if he/she is accessible.

If you even run into me early morning in a mini skirt and a cami, trust me when I say I'm not vulnerable or accessible.

[Fiona_44]

I wear nothing but dresses and skirts when out and about, I never wear pants. I've never felt vulnerable because of what I was wearing.

[audreyinalbany]

I actually think it's more subtle...dare I say 'psychological' than that... on a sub conscious level it may send a message ...legs are exposed and there is an open passage to a vagina...so I kind of 'get it' on a very visceral level it does express a certain vulnerability

[Bea_]

I don't think that when GGs say they feel more vulnerable in a skirt they mean they would less aptly fight against an aggressor.

I was actually not saying anything about the GG's. I was specifically speaking for myself. The GG's have spoken very clearly for themselves.

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I could see feeling vulnerable in the sense of feeling more exposed, not so much in the sense of no longer denying access. I could compare it to the feeling of wearing a bikini. You might as well be naked. It's vulnerability, but in the sense that you're so exposed. More eyes on you' every part of you. In your average situations, I wouldn't think twice wearing a short skirt. It wouldn't make me feel much different. As long as it's appropriate for where I go.

Thanks for this. It sums up a lot of my concerns. I think that the thing that seems like a hurdle in my mind is the fact that gravity is the only thing holding things in place. and I have yet to see for myself that gravity is enough. I think it would be an acquired assurance.

[DAVIDA]

Be VERY careful with this discussion.
If it becomes like a similar thread recently closed, it will not be just closed, it will be deleted.
I'm a little surprised this even came up again.

[DianeT]

We know that a certain type of attire will attract a certain type of attention. This may have a bearing over the recommendations about places to go or not to go, and the required safety measures. What I mean is that some may not apply to you. Also you do this in MIAD mode which means you may get reactions that are different from full nines CDers. There are a few members here that go out in MIAD mode, maybe they want to chime in?

[Debbie Denier]

I think it is weighing up the balance of risk and reward.

[Helen_Highwater]

Given the popularity of women's wear with legs, trousers, leggings, jeans etc., would a woman walking home alone at night feel any less vulnerable compared to when wearing a skirt?

And are other factors at play. Is it more likely with wearing a skirt heel wearing, even modest ones, is more likely? It's not simply the skirt but the "package", the overall look.

So I'd say just to focus on skirt/ dress wearing without fully considering all the other small elements that often go with it over simplifies the matter.

Leggings especially some worn by younger females can be very revealing in that they fit like a second skin. If wearing those would the GG feel less vulnerable compared to skirt wearing if say it was "modest", below the knee and not particularly tight fitting and worn with trainers as is currently the fashion.

One of the things going out dressed has taught me is just how exposed women can feel out alone. My experience has taught me I pass at a distance so I'm potentially at the same risks of unwanted attention that a lone GG might be. Of course things alter if it becomes more close up and personal but the circumstances triggering any such encounter are the same.

One of the things I would say to a GG berating our community is that folks like us better understand how women feel. We experience many of the things society places upon them, how they experience the world and know things need to change and support them in that. We're on their side and support them in seeking a more equitable society.

[Lorna]

I haven't had the experience of being out and about in a dress or skirt and so I can't comment on vulnerability in the sense of women feeling uneasy because of fear of being targeted by men. I can, though, comment on two other views about how wearing "traditional" women's dress might result in a sense of increased vulnerability.
First, I remember, back in the late 1960s, when my wife had started wearing tights and a panty girdle rather than stockings and an open girdle, that this new apparel felt a bit like "wearing trousers". She certainly didn't look like someone wearing trousers: the very opposite, in fact, because tights allowed her to wear a shorter dress and expose more nylon-clad leg. When I queried what she meant her explanation was along the lines that with stockings and suspenders there was always an awareness that care was needed to avoid showing stocking tops and that only her knickers covered up her "private parts". Now, even if her dress somehow rose to reveal "all", the three layers of panties, tights and panty girdle provided complete coverage - so she didn't ever need to worry about such things.
Second, my own experience completely backed up those comments from my wife. Somehow the open girdle (or suspender belt) with panties worn over it and suspenders poking through to reach the stocking tops created a "vulnerable area" which modesty required must not be revealed. I could well understand that in those circumstances one would be conscious of the possibility - even if unlikely - of "exposure". Indeed, when fashions began to move towards shorter skirts and dresses, women (and crossdressers) needed to check carefully whether there was a risk of that vulnerability becoming embarrassing.

[_jenni_]

Most vulnerable feeling imho is walking around in a swim suit with shoes on. No shoes fine.

In a skirt and no shoes fine. With shoes fine. Swim suit no shoes fine. With shoes might as well be in nothing.

[Geena75]

Over the last couple of years I have been out in the general public any number of times, and in all but a couple occasions I was wearing a skirt or dress. I don't know that I felt vulnerable other than the fear of being called out as a guy. My biggest issue is comfortable footwear so I can move around readily. I have a beautiful pair of pumps that I wouldn't wear out and about because my feet/ankles just don't adjust to them very well. Feeling comfortable in the clothes and with my look are foremost.

[Genifer Teal]

Most vulnerable feeling imho is walking around in a swim suit with shoes on. No shoes fine.


Not sure how shoes make a difference.lol

I will say if you're going to wear a bikini, you might as well be naked. I feel naked. You practically are naked. You can't hide any flaws on your body. Whatsoever.