Playing the dumb guy in the company of women?

[SophiaRose]

I was inspired to post this topic after reading Sometimes Steffi's thread "Fun convo with random GG". Her note: "Steffi, you really gave yourself away. You knew way too much about women's clothes for a typical guy."

I was with family at the beach, hanging with the girls, and invariably the topic of clothing came up. I so desperately wanted to contribute in a constructive way but stuck with the "you have too many shoes" cliches. Later we got into a conversation about nurses (of which many exist in my family) and how they have trouble keeping track of patients gender identities. They talked about how gender fluid issues were a recent phenomenon and of course I jumped in with some history about it existing for millennia. I stopped short of sharing too much info to not give my self away. I'm pretty protective of us gals. Finally, I've been traveling for business with two female colleagues and they needed some makeup wipes, which I have in my luggage. I left it to, whats wrong with soap and water? They laughed at me. Sigh.

The more I learn the more frustrated I feel being in the closet with my knowledge, let along CDing. Anyone else struggle with this? Have you ever outed yourselves by knowing too much?

[bridget thronton]

I guess we either need to decide we own our clothing choices or decide we do not need to contribute to every conversation.

[Sandi Beech]

When I am around people who know the male me, I keep my mouth shut as well. Sometimes I want to say something just like you, but I know better.

When I am around strangers or out of town, it is quite different. I have engaged in conversations and shown pictures of me as Sandi at almost every opportunity. It becomes easier and easier over time.

Sandi

[Raychel]

I have very often found myself talking with my girl-friend or my sister abouit things I should not know about
Thye know about my other side and we usually end up laughing at some point, or at least a chuckle that I should not know that.

[audreyinalbany]

here's something that I find interesting and very hard to understand:
Years ago in conversation my sister in law mentioned that she had been help by a sale associate that seemed to be a male presenting as female.SIL was okay with that but simply brought it up. We all (probably four or five of us sitting around talking) talked a little bit ao=bout how such things were becoming more common and less remarkable. Later, when we were alone...my wife an I...she said she thought it was so interesting that I simply listened to the conversation and didn't ay anything more about presenting as a female, as though she had wanted me to come out to her family during a casual conversation. it's even more puzzling since we are in a 'I know about it but don't want to see it" relationship. I thought she WANTED me to play dumb.....sheesh...talk about your mixed signals

[NancySue]

Put me with the I know, but keep my mouth shut. It?s very frustrating as I believe I?d enjoy and could contribute to a clothes conversation I totally believe in female intuition and ESP. Their gift is they can sense things a mile away. So, mum?s the word.

[Marketa]

In June two GG colleagues of mine attended weddings (two different ones) with a week between them, so when we were having lunch and they started talking about dress and shoes and make-up, I was screaming inside my male-self's head. Now one of those two has another wedding in like two weeks, so there's still the topic of shoes and dress, but at least it's not as hot topic as before, because it's only her.

[Genifer Teal]

I used to hide it. Now they hope i contribute.

[docrobbysherry]

Like Sandi, I'll talk about anything with strangers! Except religion and politics.:doh:

It's only with people I know that I avoid discussing anything to do with CDing. And, religion and politics!:tongueout

[CynthiaD]

I’m out to everyone in my family, wife, children, siblings, in-laws … . I love being a crossdresser and have no desire to hide it. We don’t discuss it, it’s just one of those things.

In certain groups, those in which I feel it necessary to be in drab, I don’t discuss trans topics, because it makes many people uncomfortable. These are good-hearted people who would never be hateful to anyone, but who are just uncomfortable with the subject. I’m sure they’ll come around eventually, but if you push the topic on them, they’ll push back.

[char GG]

I work at a concert venue and have the opportunity to see all styles of clothes. One of my male work friends critiques the ladies clothing choices and knows all of the terminology for different styles (such as asymmetrical hem, ruching) and loves the classic movie star look. He also makes note of the men's suit coats (talks about the "vents"), pattern and/or embroidered shirts, choice of shoes, and loves it when the guys wear sequin jackets and matching sequin shoes. One of his favorite events is when a big company holds a ball in our place. We get a running commentary on everyone's clothes. He personally takes pride in his male clothes and even wears cuff links to work.

He has never identified (to me) that he is CDer but he certainly knows clothing. It's great fun talking to him and always look forward to what he has to say. I would say in another life, he should have been a clothing designer.

I doubt it is necessary to "play dumb", it's great to hear someone else's opinions.

[SophiaRose]

The transgender conversations are really tricky. We have a 20 something nephew that is transitioning. My wife and I are supportive to her and her parents but when the rest of the family gets going on the topic opinions fly. No doubt all on this forum are pretty well educated on the subject from our own journeys and it makes it really difficult to speak strongly to the subject with citing data and experiences without raising serious suspicions. So I tend to keep quiet. Makes me feel like a fraud, hypocrite and a coward.

[Glenda58]

My wife had some friends over and I was the only male. They started to talk about cloths and makeup. They said tome that it was boring for me to listen to it. After they left my wife said to me that I might have known more about what they were talking about then they.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I've taken yoga and Pilates classes for years and now I'm taking "reformer" Pilates on the (reformer) machine. All the classes are predominantly female, and many times there are references to the bra (strap) or high heels, e.g., put you toes on the foot bar and push your heals away from the foot bar like your wearing high heels.

In one class I was in there were like 7 girls and me, in full male mode. We were using a roller bar and were told to put it under our back. The instructor said (to the girls), "Put the roller ball at your bra level." Then she addressed me. She said, "I don't know where to tell you to put the roller bar." Surprise, surprise! I knew exactly where the roller bar was supposed to go, but I played dumb.

As I've said many times here, I started going to yoga class with painted toes (barefoot, of course). Then, I added femme (think floral) yoga pants and then a women's tank top or racerback. But I still acted like a guy, except in a femme yoga outfit.

I probably kind of outed myself today. They had kind of sparkle printed yoga pants on the sale rack that I took a liking to. They were 20% off. I asked the GG receptionist 20% off what. She looked and said the list price was $96. I told her 20% off $96 was still a little price. She said, OK 40% off. I had to hurry off to class, but after class, I asked her what size they were (large). Then I took out my tailors measuring tape and said, "I'd like to measure them and see if they would fit me." I always have a measuring tape with me in case some random purchase opportunity come up. I said, "I'm an engineer, I always have a measuring tape with me in case I need to measure something. In the end, I said that I would come by and try them on.

She may not have figured out that I'm a crossdresser, but she must have got some kind of gender variant vibe. But, she played it cool.

[Crissy 107]

Steffi, I think this GG Receptionist is not a knucklehead and that she has a good idea that you may be a crossdresser.
Tell her 50% and it’s a deal. Good luck

[Patience]

Years ago, I was in a zoom call (maybe not zoom but a similar application) for work with a lot of remote people, none of whom really knew each other. The suject of fake eye lashes came up and I said "those are hard to put on", to which another guy in the call felt compelled to say "I wouldn't know". I told him "You know now".

I got a chuckle out of that.

[CharlotteCD]

I used to play dumb around my Ex as she didn't like reminders of my dressing - even if it would help her she'd rather not know.

I don't any more and my GF loves that I am so attentive, have an eye for things, and I will happily turn up with items we can share like makeup remover etc.

This site evidences that most women fail to understand how beneficial it can be to date and embrace a crossdresser.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Steffi, I think this GG Receptionist is not a knucklehead and that she has a good idea that you may be a crossdresser.
Tell her 50% and it’s a deal. Good luck

I'm going to stick with gender variant. MIAD. After all, what is femme about yoga pants? They have 2 legs and a waist. But these were 7/8 length.

When the receptionist was helping me look through sizes, she said these are 7/8 I assume that she meant size 7/8. Without even thinking, I said, "That's not the size but the length." Another big oops. Does any guy know the difference between ankle length, 7/8 length and capris length?

I still have to think about it at 50% off. I have a lot of femme yoga pants and I typically only pay around $15 at Burlington, Sears (RIP), SteinMart (RIP), Kmart (RIP), Marshalls, Ross, eBay and others. But I'm always on the lookout for a new color or style.

[Genifer Teal]

7/8ths? That's one I've never heard. I'm not one to ever shop capris. All my life I struggle to get clothes long enough. when something comes up short, it just feels wrong even if it's on purpose. I would never purposely get something too short. I would think that meant somewhere between size 7 and 8. Although that would be between a girls and women's size, so, it wouldn't seem natural. Maybe it's not. It's big in the hips and butt?

[Victoria1]

My wife and her friends or my daughter in law will often compare notes on clothing that they like or have seen recently. I am often tempted to chime in but, like many others on this forum, I remain silent to not give away any secrets. This is especially true with lingerie. They were talking about a particular brand/style of chemise. It's the same brand/style that I sleep in. I really wanted to comment on the fit and feel and the fact that I would wear one all day if I could. My wife sometimes brags about the fact that I know her bra and panty size and often buy them for her but she stops short of comparing notes with me.

[Claire M]

I was watching Jeopardy a while back with my wife and 30-something son. For some reason there was an entire category about dresses and several other questions relating to women's shoes and fashion accessories. Watching Jeopardy we always end up shouting the answers before the show contestants.I got a few odd looks from the family when I didn't miss one of those questions, including the Final Jeopardy question which stumped my wife. "Lucky guesses" I claimed!!!

[Crissy 107]

My wife used to be very supportive of me getting pedicures with color. Just yesterday she came home from getting a pedicure with a light pink color. I saw her toes and complimented the color.
Crickets is all I got.

[chrissy111]

As my wife says, I will talk to anyone about anything if I know the topic. And my clothes choice is a topic I know well.

[Connie D50]

I'm sure I have, I can think of a couple of times when asked ,how do you know so much about (a women topic) I just say I had 2 daughters and wife in my house.

[Stephanie47]

At my age (77) there have been occasions when someone has said "How do you know that?" My answer has been "I've been married to my wife for over fifty years. You just observe things." Actually, if you have not learned anything for over fifty years, I think most women think you really have not cared about the female world.

[valerie anne]

I had an intriguing temptation with bra wires caught in washing machines.

A friend of my sister's asked if I could extract one of her bra underwires from the washing machine drum.

She said "As a man I don't suppose you know about this problem", and I said, "no", but now I wish I had said "but I hand wash all my bras".

[Heather76]

Valerie, that's what the delicate cycle on the wash and dryer are for. I just did a load of my fem laundry today. The only thing to be careful about is the bra hooks can catch on panties and other bras. Removing everything carefully avoids any damage being done. When I do my fem laundry, I'm always cross dressed as no right-minded guy wants to do laundry. :haha:

[alwayshave]

SophiaRose, I have avoided conversations where I had opinions about women's clothes. I hide my dressing or hints I dress from everyone except my wife and you lovely ladies.

[JulieC]

I've never let on that I know more than I "should" as a guy, except for one minor occasion. I was traveling for work to a conference, and a subordinate of mine was with me for the trip. Wonderful lady! Anyway, at one point she was complaining about her pantyhose, and how much she didn't like them but felt like she needed to wear them. I told her to wear thigh highs instead. She took me up on the suggestion, and a few months later thanked me for it :)

[Sometimes Steffi]

7/8ths? That's one I've never heard. I'm not one to ever shop capris. All my life I struggle to get clothes long enough. when something comes up short, it just feels wrong even if it's on purpose. I would never purposely get something too short. I would think that meant somewhere between size 7 and 8. Although that would be between a girls and women's size, so, it wouldn't seem natural. Maybe it's not. It's big in the hips and butt?

Nope

Without even thinking, I said, "That's not the size but the length." Another big oops. Does any guy know the difference between ankle length, 7/8 length and capris length?

I do, I do!

In yoga pants, Ankle length is to the ankle. Capri is mid-calf, or just below the knee. 7/8 length is in between, say high ankle.

Genifer: I recall that you are tall for a guy (6'6") which is especially tall for a girl. You could wear pants that are technically too short by claiming that they are (designed as) above-ankle length or capris, rather than full length.

Sizing guide according to Steffi (inferred). Maybe some GG can correct me.

Women's, sizes (or more technically misses, or missies, to distinguish them from women's, or plus sizes) use even numbers. 8, 10, 12, 14. They usually stop at 14, since sizes 16 and above are considered plus sizes. For example, I typically wear a size 14 in dresses and tops, but sometimes I can wear a 12. I typically wear a 12 in bottoms, but sometimes I can wear a 10. I'm kind of a skinny guy with no hips or butt. I don't have a typical guy's protruding stomach, nor do I have much of a chest or pecs. I joke that my natural bra size (without forms) is a 38 A minus. With forms, I shoot for a 38C, a nice normal mid-range size.

Sometimes women's sizes are denoted with a W, like 14W. There's a huge difference between 14 and 14W. In a 14W, it looks like I've borrowed my bigger sister's dress.

Juniors sizes use odd numbers, 5, 7 and 9. In fact, there used to be a 5/7/9 store. Junior sizes typically have less hip and butt than missies.

Sizes that fit both juniors and missies use both numbers. 7/8 is typically used for a size that fits both juniors (7) and missies" (8).

In short, 7/8 in yoga pants is the length. The size is in even numbers (Missies) or S/M/L/XL. But, I don't shop in the juniors section. Maybe there are junior-sized yoga pants also.

Amazon thought that I would like these.

The ad shows three different inseam lengths, what I would call capri, 7/8th and ankle.

[Cheryl T]

In those situations I usually chime in with some helpful comment.
I would have offered the makeup wipes and then said something like, "I keep them for cleanup in case the car breaks down".

I've made a few comments and gotten the "how do you know about this" and I just say, "well I have been married ## years, remember. Got to learn something in all that time".

[Claire M]

Sometimes women's sizes are denoted with a W, like 14W. There's a huge difference between 14 and 14W. In a 14W, it looks like I've borrowed my bigger sister's dress.

Steffi, I ran into the W dress sizes a while back so I asked a friendly SA at Macy's. She told me the W sizes were created for older women who tend to gain weight and have some "adverse consequences to gravity over the years". In general the bust and hips are a bit roomier and the bust is centered a little lower from the shoulder. Hopefully a GG will catch and clarify any errors in that explanation.

The W sizes also seem to be a little roomier in the shoulders. I have found some nice blazers and a few winter dresses where the 14W size fit much better than the 14 ( too tight) or the 16 (too big)!!

[Sometimes Steffi]

Good answer. I would never have had the "muffins" to ask an SA about it. I'm pretty open about my CDing (amongst strangers, at least), but asking that would be a TMI question for me.

[Claire M]

I was shopping in Claire mode. I can "pass" from afar but in face-to-face conversation, I'm sure the SA had no question that I was a CD or trans. She actually turned me on to the W sizes and explained them to me. Standing in the store in a dress, I was already showing my "muffins"!!

[Sometimes Steffi]

It must have been a long time ago. The last time I was in Macy's there weren't any SAs, never mind friendly ones. I kind of like it that way. I prefer to be a "Lone Wolf" shopper and not be interrupted by pesky SAs.

[Genifer Teal]

Since it's Amazon, maybe it's a European thing. I don't believe we do that. 7/8 thing in the states and yes, I agree with your sizing information, but how can something be bigger in the butt? And not bigger in the butt. At the same time either it's juniors or misses. I don't see how it can be both

[Sometimes Steffi]

There's a lot of things that I don't know, or don't know well. However yoga pants are in my wheelhouse.

How about Kohls (https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-3972222/womens-gaiam-om-high-waisted-pocket-78-leggings.jsp?prdPV=8)?

As for size 9/10 jeans, I'm almost positive that I've seen 9/10 jeans in stores. I'll have to verify my facts. I'm not really sure what 9/10 means, but I assume it meant either/both. My wife is a GG and she worked in retail for many years. I could always ask her, but that's not going to happen. We're DADT.

OK. I verified facts. I was in Burlington shopping and I found a pair of 9/10 jeans without much trouble in the Juniors section. I'm still not sure if they're supposed to fit junior's (9) or women's (10) or both.

[DianeT]

It would be quite a stretch to think that I know remotely enough about girl things to out myself to women in a conversation. I feel reasonably safe on that front. And if I ever made incursions into that level of knowledge, crossdressing is so out of women's ordinary experience that I doubt they would connect the dots. I mean, some may tease you about it, but then again it would probably just be teasing, without an actual suspicion behind it (that is, before you turn crimson in the face when they do).

[Jane G]

Being in the closet for my entire life, it's a continual struggle to keep my mouth shut. I chat so easily with women, but there has always been that guard in place. Life is full of compromise.

[Leah87]

Whenever my wife orders a new dress, or skirt, for work or going out, I am always treated to the full details including retailer, size, colour, style, length, side zip or back zip, material, lining etc. She always finishes off with "None of that will mean anything to you, but you'll see what I mean when it arrives." Little does she know that I know exactly what it all means. I normally can't wait to see it in case I fancy buying one for myself, especially if it's a pencil skirt.

[Fiona Manchmal]

As I started to read this thread I thought I'd have nothing more to offer than say I had once surprised a GG by knowing what palazzo pants are. Seemed no big deal to me - I was then in my 40s and had reached them keeping my eyes and ears open. As I told her, you can't help but pick up a lot of odd knowledge that way. Anyway, the moment passed, conversation moved on and I nobody was outed.

Then I got to Char GG's post and particularly the words 'and even wears cuff links to work.' That made me laugh out loud. 'EVEN wears...!' Yup, that's the clincher: CD for sure. 😉 I have been wearing cuff-links on and off for years and had no idea I was unwittingly outing myself. All that time being careful, unaware that the game was already up and I could have been out there, enjoying myself as Fiona.... Aaaaargh!


Dear Char GG, I hope para 2 doesn't offend you, it's not meant to; and your friend, whether one of us or not, sounds a hoot.

Fi.

[Lorna]

A very long time ago my wife was contemplating buying a high-waist panty girdle, partly because she was concerned about the possibility of a "spare tyre" appearing above her usual girdles following childbirth. (I don't think she needed to worry at all). She pulled a high-waist, brief leg girdle from its box to inspect it, doing the usual tests to check the strength of its elastic. While doing this she noticed the bones and immediately expressed doubts. She held out the girdle for me to feel and I said "They feel quite flexible - not like proper bones - and I think they're only there to stop it rolling down."
Straight away I realised that this was quite detailed knowledge but, on the other hand, I had read about such details in adverts and catalogues. My wife didn't seem at all surprised and, having flexed the bones between her fingers, bought the girdle. She wore it quite a bit under more fitted dresses and I enjoyed feeling it around her waist but she never really liked the idea of needing a high-waist girdle and never bought another one.

[Brianne_M]

Valerie, that's what the delicate cycle on the wash and dryer are for. I just did a load of my fem laundry today. The only thing to be careful about is the bra hooks can catch on panties and other bras. Removing everything carefully avoids any damage being done.
I use laundry bags designed for bras. I always hook the back, but if they come apart the material is fine enough that it won't snag. I got a set of different use bags on Amazon.

As far as chiming in on subjects, my opinion is if you aren't going to give legit advice on the subject, dont make a comment that would foster the stereotype.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I probably kind of outed myself today. They had kind of sparkle printed yoga pants on the sale rack that I took a liking to. They were 20% off. I asked the GG receptionist 20% off what. She looked and said the list price was $96. I told her 20% off $96 was still a little price. She said, OK 40% off. I had to hurry off to class, but after class, I asked her what size they were (large). Then I took out my tailors measuring tape and said, "I'd like to measure them and see if they would fit me." I always have a measuring tape with me in case some random purchase opportunity come up. I said, "I'm an engineer, I always have a measuring tape with me in case I need to measure something. In the end, I said that I would come by and try them on.

I didn't have Pilates last week, but I did today. Before class, I checked to see the sizes of the yoga pants. I hadn't noticed before, but they had small medium and large. By the way, the ones I liked are burgundy, with like gold paint splatter. Definitely femme.

There was no class after mine, so I asked my instructor, "Can I try one on?' She said, "But these are for women." I replied, "I have two legs and a waist just like women do." She said, "I guess so."

She tried to steer me to the more male-like colors, but I said, "I like these burgundy ones. Can I take a pair to the bathroom and try them on?"

I tried on the Medium and I loved them. Now I have to wait to see the girl who was offering me 40% off instead of 20%. Then I'll counter, "Sold, at 50% off"

Did I give myself up this time, or was my excuse good enough?