"Erasing" myself as a man

[IJCCharlotte]

I've got a therapist who keeps asking me "What is it about erasing yourself as a man that is so appealing to you?" She's posed this question (in one form or another) to me many times. Sometimes it's "Are you sure you're not trans?" to which I say "No, I'm confident I'm a cishet male." But she keeps coming back to this kind of question. And she doesn't just mean "Why do you find trying to pass as a woman appealing?" She means why do I want to ERASE myself as a man. I've tried answering her questions with everything from "I have a lot of insecurities over how I look as a man, and I feel I look prettier as a woman" to "Its nice to take a break from being me for a while and just pretend to be someone else" to "I don't know, it's just fun". But nothing seems to satisfy her. She told me to think it over this week, and I haven't come up with anything new, so I thought I'd pose these questions to you all:

-What would you say to someone if they asked you "Why do you enjoy erasing yourself as a man?" AND
-What would you say to a therapist who keeps asking you the same question over and over and won't accept your answer?

[Kayy]

Well we’re all different, but my response would be “I’m not erasing anything, I’m being myself.” And I’d think about going to a different therapist. Whatever you decide, good luck.

[SophiaRose]

Is the word ?Erase? your word or your therapists? It?s a strong term.

[kimdl93]

In this case perhaps you might consider asking her to explain her question a bit further. what does she mean by erasing? Is she asking why you like the change in appearance? It?s a fair question. Or is she asking if there is an inner change in how you feel about yourself? Also a fair question.

[chrissy111]

I'm not a therapist and personally I would never seek one out to talk to. I have been lucky in life that I have many people who care about me and more than a few have asked why I love being Chris. And like Kayy said, it's just me, take it or leave it. I don't need peoples approval but it sure feels good when it's given. If you feel your therapist is not helping you then I think you would need to talk to someone else. Best of luck to you.

[CarlaWestin]

The best thing I've ever erased was my therapist many, many years ago.

[Marketa]

MY personal answer, and I'm pointing out the important part, that it's MY personal answer, would be, that my male-self is stressed, depressed, has a lot of things on his plate he has to got through and he simply needs his time off from existing to recover.

But as others pointed out I would start focusing on the therapist. Maybe even consider asking her, why isn't she accepting your answer(s). Because from what you wrote to me she seems to be at least little bit some of those trans-pushing people who won't be happy until she makes you to go to HRT or something.

[Raychel]

Yes we are all different.

I have never heard the word cishet. I had to look that one up.
I will say that definitely applies to me.
I would say, No I would have no desire at all to erase my male self.
I have no desire for the surgery or living full time as a woman.
I feel more comfortable, more relaxed, And feel I look better dressed as a woman.
I never really liked my appearance as a man, but I am still a man. Next question.......

[CharlotteCD]

Erasing is to permanently remove. I'm just taking a temporary break

[docrobbysherry]

My experience with a counselor was her asking what problems my dressing was causing me? When I said, "None yet". She said, "Then, let's move on to your real problems.":thumbsup:

It's a therapist's job to help u solve problems not create more. Sounds like your's is pushing u for her own reasons. Dump her!:thumbsdn:

[Fiona_44]

I live as a trans woman because I discovered that more of me was feminine than masculine and i liked the feminine me much more than the masculine me. I have not erased my male self but I have become a transgender woman and left a lot of my "maleness" behind. And I do not miss it.

[Lovely Rose]

When you switch your game console disc to enjoy another game, the first disc is not erased, it's there waiting for its turn to get back in.
For me as a crossdresser, I'm a man when I'm a man, and an aspiring woman when I want to. For other people, they don't have a disc reader, they have a built-in un-swappable software, and nothing is wrong with that, but it's difficult for them to understand how we function from their perspective.
There's how nerdy male me would answer that :D

[Violetgray]

You don't erase your identity as a man when you dress any more than you erase your place of residence when you go on vacation. I think that perhaps this therapist struggles to understand the issue of gender.

[Stephanie47]

Having never gone to a therapist for cross dressing issues I do wonder if the therapist asked the question: "Why are you here?" Back in the "Dark Ages" of the 1960's, if I had gone to a therapist the issues would have been "Why am I like this?" "How do I deal with the self loathing and self hatred?" I cannot pass judgement on the qualification and knowledge of the therapist, but is she getting some vibes from you that are leading her to ask that question. I think the therapist's job is not telling you what to do or who you are, but lead you to self discovery. If you're comfortable being "cishet" (I had to look it up), why are you there?

[JocelynJames]

I haven?t seen a therapist, but thane heard many say that sometimes the one you have isn?t the right one. Just saying

[sometimes_miss]

Remember that therapists also learn as they go. Perhaps she sees something in you that you can not, or will not. This may be a result of seeing the same type of person before, who was trans, but could not, or would not, see, but eventually realized it. Don't take it personally; they are doing the best they can, with the knowledge they have. As others have mentioned, maybe you and your therapist have gone as far as you can go together, and it's time to move on to someone else. Bring it up next time you see them, and ask if they think it's worth continuing with each other.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I'm going to throw out another point of view. Maybe the therapist isn't "fluent" in trans issues.

Question her back and see why the question of erasing is so important to her.

I've been to several therapists over several years and have never been asked that question.

Therapy is supposed to be a judgement-free zone. I think the question of "erasing" is judgmental, not judgement free.

[kimdl93]

One thing that should be considered is that this discussion is based on one question posed by the therapist. There may be additional things that have been discussed in therapy that we are not privy to.

[danniUK]

Therapy is supposed to be a judgement-free zone. I think the question of "erasing" is judgmental, not judgement free.

That's what I took from this too.

[Shelly Preston]

I am very surprise that a therapist would ask such a question.

I can see why she may want to ask are you trans, but to keep pressing the point is counter productive and concerning.

I would be asking them what there definition of transition is.

Some do change with sexual reassignment surgery while others socially transition without surgery.

Others are quite happy crossdressing.

[ColleenA]

My thoughts had already been "I'm not erasing myself as a man; I'm expanding my repertoire of being a human."
So I agree with Charlotte that "Erasing is to permanently remove" and I love the analogy Violetgray made.

[chrissy111]

Kim makes a good point about not knowing what else has been discussed. Looking at your name IJCCharlotte could mean that you don't see or want to see your other half.

[Cheryl T]

I don't feel that I'm "erasing" anything. I'm adding to something.

[Philippa Jane]

I think I would answer that I am only erasing my male side when I am crossdressing.
It could be a little like having a split personality as well.
When my old male side was having problems and was depressed my female side when dressed was a different person and gave my brain some rest.
Rather cathartic for me at the time.
Many of the other members have given you questions you can ask of your therapist and if you don't feel comfortable with the explanation try another therapist.

[DianeT]

I don't see anything shocking in the therapist question, and like someone said we don't have the full context. There's an element of emasculation in the action of crossdressing for many of us, at a symbolic level, but also at a more physical level for all the people here tucking. And erasing myself as a man is indeed something I do if I honestly think about it. Wearing makeup, fake breasts and hip forms is pretty much erasing our male self from our presentation while the feminine version emerges. We can't say at length that we want to distance ourselves from our male self and be shocked to hear someone asking why we erase it. The therapist's question, as far as I can judge with the few elements at our disposal, makes sense.

[Alaina R]

Someone said there is often an element of emasculation for many crossdressers. I think that's true. With that there may be a sense of submission. I know on this forum many object when it's suggested that crossdressing often has a sexual component but, sorry, it does. Sexuality often has a sense of loss of self. One way to think about all of this is that you are submitting to an archtype of femininity which incorpoates a temporary erasure of yourself as a man.

[Cassie2024]

I don't think I am trying to erase my manhood or masculinity. I feel like me dressed en femme or en drab mode. For me, it's another way of presenting me and there is a large and strong feminine side of me. One must remember, when we are in drab, the feminine is not being presented, or as some put it, "erased". I see it as a prism, depending how you look, will determine what is presented, but you are always there.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Seriously, you need to change your therapist- if you haven't hit a brick wall, your therapist certainly has.

She might be perfectly effective for some of her clients, but she is not in tune with you.

I mostly wear jeans and a workshirt. If I put on clean white shorts, socks, shoes and tee shirt and pick up a tennis racket, am I erasing the person who wears jeans and a workshirt?

[Crissy 107]

To me this therapist sounds very annoying, how many times is she going to ask the same question in one form or another?
I agree with others, time for a new therapist.

[Genifer Teal]

Interesting concept erasing myself as a man. I never really thought of it that way.I never thought of trying to get away from one thing to become another. For that matter, I never really thought i'm a man (or not). I mean, I know that's the way I was born, but I never felt it was an ideal I needed to live up to. It's just something I was. becoming a woman has been a natural development for me. Not like I was looking for a change. I just gravitated in the direction I preferred, and here I am.

[Brynna M]

Let's assume for a moment your therapist has a plan. Therapists often have to challenge their patients. If all you have given is innocuous answers to the question but you are still having distress over it you haven't found the answer that leads to the source of your distress.

[prene]

My therapist would never say such a thing.
She is great and supportive of me and my journey. lol
She just wants me to be safe and careful, but it always listening to me, which is great.

[Jane G]

Well I'm 6'4", have size 13 feet and male genitalia. Does that make me a man? No way, I'm trans and happy. The important thing is to be happy where you are.With most of us, that will change over time.

[Snide_lobster]

This is an interesting question and one I have dug into myself (perhaps in other words). I am squarely a crossdresser, not trans, I know that for sure. My cross-dressing desire is at its most basic, an attempt at illusion. I try and find joy and thrill in the idea of successfully overcoming the social taboo/transgression that is crossdressing by swiftly jumping that uncanny valley (i.e. passing), to be completely presentable as something I know I am not. It seems paradoxical, but this illusion stays visual, I don't alter my voice, I use my masculine name when I go out, I am still me, just playing dress up, pretending to be something I'm not, and the excitement comes from perhaps convincing someone otherwise even though I'm still the same. I guess mine's weird in that in one area I want to completely erase my masculinity (visual presentation by looks and arguably body language/movement), but at the same time maintain (what I'd argue to be more representative of "me") my masculine self, voice/name/personality. If it was all about making the "illusion" as real as possible, wouldn't I want to change everything? I guess, but then wouldn't that be better described not as an illusion but authentic living? Perhaps this odd dichotomy is how I can be so comfortable in just being a crossdresser, I'm a guy, I'm rocking a dress, and I just want to look like a really flippin' hot chick.

[CynthiaD]

I’ve been feeling like I should respond to this "Erasing the man" thing, but it’s so totally crazy I’m not sure what to say. It’s like removing your work clothes, putting on pjs and having someone ask you why you’re trying to distance yourself from your work clothes. Yes. The question is crazy, unprofessional, and childish. I’m not an expert, but it seems to me that you should seek a counselor who is

1. Professional
2. Mature
3. Not crazier than you.

Good luck to you.

[Ceera]

My first reaction is that I would seek a different therapist. Particularly if you don't identify as actually transgender. The phrasing of that repeated query is very judgmental and not at all professional. It reminds be very strongly of the rhetoric of the TERFs - Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists - A group who assert that transgender women are not in any way female, nor can they ever be considered true lesbians.

For a crossdresser, I see nothing wrong with admitting that is what you are, particularly if you 'don't pass well'. But I also see nothing wrong with trying to pass very well, and seeking to be accepted as a woman when presenting female.

That said, in my own case, as a fully transitioned transgender woman, my own stance on 'erasing the male self' has changed over time.

In my early explorations, for 4 years I cross dressed socially, but spent most of my life as a male and considered myself to be gender fluid. If someone asked if I was a cross dresser, Trans, or gender fluid, I would, while in female mode, freely admit that I was born male and still lived a large part of my life as a male - but that while I was presenting as Ceera, I was female. I didn't deny my birth gender role, but as Ceera, I didn't bring it up very often, either. As Ceera, I wanted to pass as female, and to be accepted as a woman in social settings. And I succeeded more often than not.

Then I decided to pursue medical and legal transition, and started living full time as a woman. Over the course of the last 6 years as a full time female, my 'erasure' of my past self has slowly increased.

At first, I only mentioned being Transgender if someone indicated they thought I might not be a cisgender woman. I would also make it clear if someone seemed romantically or intimately interested in me, as I had no wish to deliver a potentially unwelcome surprise later on - that I was still male below the waist. In any other cases, if I mentioned my past in a social conversation, I would be deliberately vague about my gender earlier in life. I'd refer to myself as, 'When I was a child', or 'When I was younger', and the like.

But in the last year or so, this has changed. I had my lower surgery last February. My body is fully female now, even when fully nude. So in a casual social setting with new acquaintances, I do make references like, 'when I was a little girl', or like 'Growing up, I never met any other girls named Ceera'. And since I pass quite well, that is usually accepted at face value, now.

With close friends, I will never deny who I used to be. But that man isn't me, any longer. It's who I was, not who I am now. My mind always was mostly female, it just took me many decades to acknowledge and accept that about myself.

[Sometimes Steffi]

As a follow-up to my previous post, one therapist told me after our first 50-minute session that I was gay, but there was nothing wrong with being gay. I was a member of a gym back then, and was at the gym 3 to 4 times a week. So, I surreptitiously checked out the other men in the locker room to see if I was attracted to any of them. Not in the slightest. Not gay. However, I did keep on seeing this therapist weekly for a few months. But, I had an ulterior motive. I went dresses for every session except the first.

[Bea_]

I've been in therapy for four years now and working with a second therapist at this point. My feminine preferences were not the reason for starting therapy and became more of the focus after a year or so with the first therapist. So, as we got into the crossdressing during sessions, there were a lot of core questions that came up. This particular question was not one of them. If it had been asked, i think I'd have taken it as a legitimate question to ask myself. My take on the issue is that either the therapist notices something that you don't or, more likely, she is projecting her own thoughts into your situation. I think I'd just examine the total value of what you get from sessions and decide if it might be better to move on to someone else.

My first therapist moved from face-to-face to online only sessions and I was fortunate that another therapist in her office suite turned out to be a good fit for me.


-What would you say to someone if they asked you "Why do you enjoy erasing yourself as a man?"

I'd explain that the word "drab" is used in the community to describe presenting as a traditional male. I'd explain that the term accurately describes how it had felt to experience the world before delving into the women's department to find a more enjoyable and fulfilling way to express myself.


-What would you say to a therapist who keeps asking you the same question over and over and won't accept your answer?

If the value she gave overall was high enough, I think that I'd express, that I love being a man but that the typical male presentation is restrictive and does not representative of who I am as a man. If she is truly stuck on that question, I'd probably begin looking for alternatives.

[Miel GG]

"I've got a therapist who keeps asking me "What is it about erasing yourself as a man that is so appealing to you?" She's posed this question (in one form or another) to me many times. (...) She told me to think it over this week, and I haven't come up with anything new"

1. Do you use the word "erasing" yourself when talking about your experience ?
2. She told you to think about it, it means you have to introspect a bit. She seems to see something you don?t. Your discomfort shows she may be on to something.
3. You could write the list of your different answers. You could also write about your feelings about the use of this particular word and the fact she keeps asking.
4. You now have some material to discuss with her :)

I also have a question for you : why do you see a therapist ? (Do not answer here, just think about it before your next appointment)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Charlotte :hugs:, Do you plan living as a woman forever?

[Rhonda Jean]

I'm not necessarily down on therapists. I went to one for a while, and at the time I needed it more than I realized. Just talking absolutely honestly and openly was therapy enough, really.

She was a therapist who was sought out by trans people. I think when I walked in the door she assumed I was there to begin the process of transitioning, particularly hormones. I think she listened to me (and my wife, as it turned out) with that in mind. Maybe her "diagnosis" was a foregone conclusion, maybe it was based on the evidence as she interpreted it. She said I was trans, I said I wasn't. Seems like your therapist might have a similar bent.

Maybe she's seeing something your not. Maybe this is her way of getting you to open up. Maybe it's worked for her before. Seems like an odd question, particularly since she's asked it repeatedly. Don't let her put words in your mouth. BUT (the best spin I can put on it), if you already knew all the answers/reasons you probably wouldn't be going to a therapist. Maybe don't reject it out of hand. Definitely ask her why she keeps asking.