Going out, staying in. Controversy?

[Rhonda Jean]

For a long time on this forum there was the divide between cd and ts. Us vs. them. I got caught up in it. Felt slighted, unheard, and put down. An overreaction in some cases. Some cases not.

I hope I have not done the same thing to those who stay in. If I did, shame on me. That was not my intention. Surely we're all guilty of thinking that something we love is just the essence of life, and anyone who disagrees just doesn't know, or hasn't had the opportunity to try it. Could be something as mundane as a favorite restaurant or your favorite margarita. You know you've discovered something special, and you want your friends to discover it and love it as much as you do. I think that's where this controversy comes from more than some factionalized hierarchy. It's just wanting other people to feel what you feel, and sharing the love and enjoyment of something with others amplifies our own pleasure.

[bridget thronton]

Wearing any clothing is about what makes you happy and feel good about yourself. I applaud the people who understand themselves so well that going out is just another day and I respect people who are not there yet (as do you I think)

[AmyJordan]

Hi Rhonda

There seems to be a bit of contention lately, some it seems quite heated, as to those staying in feeling pressurized by those who like to show the world their femininity to going out themselves.

You all know i'm a cowardly custard regarding going out despite huge support from my wife, I don't feel that the comments I receive from the lovely members on this site pressure me into revealing myself in public instead I consider it encouragement and validation that I could if that is what I wished.

I thank everyone for their kind comments

Amy x

[Lauren4444]

Very well said, Amy! I did not see any comments from ?outsiders? that seemed anything but accepting and encouraging. You can count me in the group of people who had ZERO interest in going out. I was very happy and comfortable at home. It took a girlfriend dragging me terrified out of the house for me to realize new experiences. We only know what we know. Until we experience things, it?s difficult to really have an informed decision. There was a time that I thought fried cheese would be a bad thing?until I tried it. Ha ha

To be 100% honest, I still have a bit of trepidation going out and I?ve been out over 100 times! But my fears definitely bring out my best and force me to put my best high heeled foot forward when I do venture out. Any excuse or reason we have for staying home is valid. I just love reading from a bunch of girls who have yet to take the first step out that they remain possibly open to it one day when the stars align. Like a few others who wrote, I am very comfortable by myself, which makes it easier to stay at home very content. But it?s also nice to go out and mingle. Ya just never know what can happen once we leave the house. And that can be a bit scary?but also exciting and rewarding!!

[RoseReve]

Hello Rhonda Jean,

to add my contribution to your reflexion, in the past I have often gone out fully dressed as a woman, but a woman totally different from the image I had as someone known as a man.

In time, this practice has become a bit painful to me: as I realized I am a trans woman, it became something like playing the role of a woman I was not, or wasn't allowed to be all the time.

Sometimes it was also triggering my gender dysphoria to think that I couldn't have this outlook all of the time, mainly because I have to wear a wig, and a full makeup, which I can't do everyday. Or I think I can't, that's where I have to evolve now...I'm working on it!!! There's also a question of fear involved, which I'm beginning to understand better.

So actually I do enjoy it more to feminize my everyday outlook in order to have the feeling to be myself all the time. And at home I'm wearing more flashy girl clothes for the fun of wearing them, without wondering what I do look like. Which is a relief sometimes!!!

All the best to you, cheers, :battingeyelashes:

Rose :rose2:

[Suzie Petersen]

There are many totally valid reasons for not wanting to take this outside the home, or hotel room, nothing wrong with that at all.
As Rhonda is saying, promoting something to someone else, be it that favorite Margarita or going out, does not mean that someone has to follow the suggestion. It is just sharing an excitement about something you like. Especially when it is coming from those who did not expect to like whatever it is we are talking about, but who now are all Oh Wow! if only I had tried that sooner!

I am saddened by the very harsh opinions on these things that some bring to the forum! Nobody forces you to read any of what is written, and it is easy to skip over things you disagree with. And you certainly are not obliged to follow any kind of suggestions given here.
Going to the extend of requesting Mod enforced restrictions on who is allowed to share their opinion, is not a good trend on this forum, and I hope we can soon move past that.

Just my $0.03 (I know ... inflation, right!)

[Shelly Preston]

Moderator Note

Restrictions

Asking for only a certain group of people to answer has been an option for a while.

Most of these threads are respected by the members and no moderator action is required.

[docrobbysherry]

It is my opinion most all dressers would like to go out occasionally if it weren't for:

Disapproving SO
Fear of being found out and judged harshly by family and friends
Fear of being ridiculed out in public
Or, embarrassed by their appearance:sad:

[DianeT]

Rhonda Jean, your heart is in the right place and I'd like to put you at ease: I don't think you, or anyone going out, have to apologize for singing the praises of it. Simply because nobody complained about that.

What we complained about was this: Being told repeatedly, with a blissful dismissal of any adverse statements we could make, that we were not going out because of fear.

Now, and this is not for Rhonda Jean but for people upset with the creation of a thread with restrictions to participate:

- Why create a separate thread? Because we were not heard, and patronized. See posts #17, #20, #23, #27, #28, #30, #32, and the answer we got in #33.

- Why rules on responders? So others could express themselves for a change. See posts in original thread, 1/3 of the posts were from people (out-goers) who were not concerned by the OP's question (which was asked to non-goers). I'm sure everyone has good intentions thinking that their contribution is important. What they don't realize is that the space they take is space that is not left to the less vocal crowd.

-- EDIT -- This post was substantially shortened and edited on the 31st.

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

There is a lot of pressure on this forum to go out and about dressed. I don't believe most of it is meant to be taken as such, there's lots of encouragement and well-wishes, lots of advice on how to take baby steps or just jump into the deep end, etc. But there's so much of it that it's easy to infer that if we don't go out we're missing out on life. Hence the pressure.

I have zero interest in going out as a woman, because I'm not one and don't look like one. I have lots of interest in going out in a skirt and cami without people looking at me like I'm a freak, but society isn't there yet (John H would disagree with me there!). Hell, I'm thrilled that men's shorts are getting shorter again! It's a start.

We're all different here. Different occupations, finances, politics, religions, comfort levels, goals, weight, height, etc. But we all like panties.

[Jacke]

Doc,
2,3 and 4 for me. My last experience was probably my last attempt.

[Karren H]

I do not see what the big deal is? I have done both, starting out just dressing inside but circumstances changed which afforded me the opportunity to go out and did that for almost 18 years. Now things have changed again and I have not been out in almost 8 year. No big deal. I still enjoy dressing a all my shopping is still in person just in male mode. If I get the chance again I would probably go back out there but I am not as young as I was and maybe Sherry can pull it off at her age but a 70s year old woman wearing sexy lingerie? Do not think I could pull that off convincingly.

[Sometimes Steffi]

So, as we all know, I'm an engineer, both by training and avocation . And engineers like to solve problems. One of the CD problems I solved was how to wear a strapless evening gown to the Keystone Gala Ball without a wardrobe malfunction. I undertook it like any engineering problem. To me, it was structural engineering. I defined the problem to be solved. I developed some initial designs. I purchased some hardware (think strapless bras). I developed some prototypes and did some testing of the suitability of those prototypes. Then, I built a full-scale model and tested it in real life. And it worked pretty well.

So many of the girls here say they can't go out because they're not very good at makeup, or they don't have a traditional girl's body. Or they don't want friends or neighbors to find out. Many do not seem to have a partner in crime or a wingman. There are potential solutions for all of those issues.

It's not my goal to encourage those girls who want to dress at home or in private. It's just to propose solutions for some of the problems going out. If I looked like Amy and had a supporting and encouraging wife, I would go out a lot more. I remember encouraging Amy to pick up her dressed photos while dressed. I should have been more aware of her valid fears.

In short, you do you. And I'll do me.

[Lauren4444]

Jacke, I am so sorry your last excursions out of the house fell into some of the rough categories Doc listed. Please do not give up. I really like Sometimes Steffi?s approach to problems. Let us find solutions! Strength in numbers always works. Events like Keystone, that Sometimes Steffi mentioned, is a super safe and fun environment to get out and play. Your profile picture shows a very fashionable and pretty young woman. Dressing and makeup is like anything else in life, the more we do it the better we get at it.

Steffi - Hope you had fun at Keystone. I cannot see your picture because it?s a cute cartoon instead of your strapless gown picture but I love Keystone!

[TheHiddenMe]

1. This is an opinion board. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Everyone is entitled to ignore those opinions.

2. I wanted to go out for a long time, but for reasons stated similarly to Doc's I was afraid to do so. Seeing others out and about made me ask myself the question, "If they can, why not me?"

3. When I now write and post pictures about my times out, I am hopeful that at least one person who was where I was asks themself "why not me?".

[GaleWarning]

It is my opinion most all dressers would like to go out occasionally if it weren't for:

Disapproving SO
Fear of being found out and judged harshly by family and friends
Fear of being ridiculed out in public
Or, embarrassed by their appearance:sad:

There is a TV soapie here in the UK called "Doctors". In a recent episode, a gay male nurse dressed in female uniform at work and was harassed by a homophobic doctor, to the point where he was provoked into punching the doctor. He was dismissed.

Doc, your list omits to mention 5. Fear of professional judgment.

[Genifer Teal]

I'm not sure if it was a controversy or more of a misunderstanding. I would like to clarify that I'm not taking sides or trying to convince anyone that going out is better. I was trying to understand why people stay in and if it was truly their decision or outside influences that made it a wiser choice or for some reason (other than a conscious decision) it was just not possible.

STEFFI:
So many of the girls here say they can't go out because they're not very good at makeup, or they don't have a traditional girl's body. Or they don't want friends or neighbors to find out. Many do not seem to have a partner in crime or a wingman. There are potential solutions for all of those issues.

This is exactly what I was trying to differentiate. Did people truly have no desire to go out or were there any of a myriad of other factors keeping them in the house.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Steffi - Hope you had fun at Keystone. I cannot see your picture because it's a cute cartoon instead of your strapless gown picture but I love Keystone!

Lauren

I always have fun at Keystone. I've lost track, but I've gone about 12 times, and each time is a new adventure in girldom.

Keystone is a place where anyone who wants to step out of the house can find a safe place. If you're talking about numbers of co-conspirators, how would you like to hide in a crowd of 800 girls. And, no matter what you look like, all the girls will be understanding, accepting and encouraging because they have been there. And there are always several makeup artists willing to make you pretty (for a fee, of course).

Keystone was the gateway drug for me because it resolved most of my "can't do" concerns. The only one that it didn't address was spousal approval. I asked my spouse for permission to go, and she gave me permission. I never told her that Plan B was to "Ask for forgiveness, not permission". She didn't tell me for years that she gave me permission because, she "thought it would get it out of my system (her words)". I'm glad that I didn't give her the "Crossdresser's Manual" to read before she decided.

As for that strapless gown, even I don't have any pictures of it anywhere in the archives. I only wore it that one time. That was from a time in the distant past when I was afraid of any photographic image of myself en femme. That's not me now. But I still have the gown and may be able to recreate the pic.

But, if you want to see the real me, look at my profile pic, not the avatar pic. It is a pic of me in a wedding dress at a makeup session and photo shoot at Amanda's True Colors Artistry. She's a gurl who specialized in making girls like us beautiful. As for Buggs Bunny. At one time I believed that the Avatar pic was searchable by any bot on the Internet, but that the Profile pic was restricted to members only by the forum password. I don't know if it was true then or if it still is.

And talking about solutions, if you look closely at my profile pic, you'll see that I'm wearing a tight-fitting, long-sleeve, skin-toned "undershirt" to hide my arm hair. I don't use it any more. My arm hair follicles have degraded over the last 15 years and I wear what little hair is left proudly.

But, I'm much more open about my crossdressing than I was 15 years ago. Given the season, maybe I should start a thread entitled, "Ghosts of Keystone Past".

For members, click on my name in the upper left portion of this post and select "View Profile". I could post a link here but that may expose my pic to non-members. If you're a curious lurker, become a member to see my profile pic.

[BLUE ORCHID]

It is my opinion most all dressers would like to go out occasionally if it weren't for:

Disapproving SO
Fear of being found out and judged harshly by family and friends
Fear of being ridiculed out in public
Or, embarrassed by their appearance:sad:

I agree 100 %, >Orchid**O:daydreaming:O**

[Lauren4444]

Steffi,
I have definitely seen you at Keystone many times. And I have even complimented you in person. You have a great look! Like you, I am a BIG fan of Keystone. I have probably made it about 6 or 7 times. And last year, I actually saw your makeup artist extraordinaire, Amanda, while I was getting my hair done. I do not think Amanda has opened her studio back up since Covid but she is as lovely as she is talented. For any girls looking to get out, PLEAZZZZE look into gender conferences like Keystone. They are the safest and most supportive environment ever!

[SophiaRose]

I didn't read the responses to this topic as controversial and was a bit surprised when it spiraled into one. Maybe I'm just a bit naive to other members feelings and histories however. If you're someone looking for growth a little conflict can act as a good nudge. While I had some different opinions on some of the responses, they were all thought provoking and helpful to me as someone right on the edge of expressing myself beyond the confines of my home. Up until now I've just been very content to stay in and "find my authentic self". I'm changing however and the posts were helpful. Contentious or not...thank you for commenting!

[Fiona_44]

Everyone has their own niche where they feel most comfortable. It's all good.

[Meg]

As I read through this post, I am reminded of why I like this group. Everyone is here to support each other. If someone is perceived to have slighted someone they are quick to apologize. I have grown to love my sisters here, even though we have never met. I thank you all for the guidance and support given me and everyone else. Love you all, Meg

[Sometimes Steffi]

@Lauren

Thanks for your compliment about my feminine style. For those reading this, know that I developed my own style. My wife is very DADT. My wife worked for a long time in retail sales of women's clothes and then she was a makeup consultant (Jafra, in the Mary Kay model). She would have been a great resource helping me define my look, but would never, ever participate, so I had to make my own way. Clothing style and makeup are two problems that I needed to resolve on my own.

Regarding Amanda, I also saw her at Keystone 2024, but in male mode. She used to have amazing selfies posted. She might still have some remaining on Flickr.

And I'm obviously a big advocate of Keystone. It's always around the 3rd week in March, and registration typically opens in January. So now is a good time to start planning for it. I started a thread in "Special Events" if any newbies want to discuss logistics of going, or if any veterans have any advice to offer. I know, or know of, some of the makeup artists who are typically there and I have used many of them personally, if anyone needs any references. They typically book up very early, so plan ahead.

Lastly, I have very poor facial recognition and can't really resolve what you looked like when we met at Keystone. But there is a pic somewhere in the archives here where 9 of us met up at Keystone and took a pic.

[Genifer Teal]

It finally hit me yesterday. The simple question why don't you go out? It can be taken two ways. (Maybe even more I haven't thought of yet.)

Some people can read it as "what are the reasons that prevent you from going out or is there really no desire?"

Now, here's the important part, the very same question can be read as "what's Your problem? How can you not want to go out?" It's hard to say it differently in text, but if you hear it in person, the way a person phrases it and inflects their voice can completely change the connotation of the the statement. It's almost like the same simple question is implying something is wrong with you got not wanting to go out.

I had no idea there was already some divide among people that go out and stay in. I could see how some people might already have some feelings about their status of staying or going and then the question comes along. I can imagine some week pick different sides when they read the question.

I hope everyone sees this the way I do now. IT'S ALL JUST A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING! That's something the internet is good at. When you read a good book, everyone pictures it their own way and enjoys it differently. That's the beauty of reading, sometimes it's also part of the complexity.

For the final time I will say, NO HURT FEELINGS OR JUDGMENT WAS EVER INTENDED.

[DanielleDubois]

Genifer, I think you have now condensed down in the simplest terms possible what the intent of your original question was.
Which is:
Some people can read it as "what are the reasons that prevent you from going out or is there really no desire?"

But like you say since people are reading your OP and not hearing it in person it was subject to various interpretations. I myself initially felt it hinted at something was wrong with us if we don't want to go out or we were making excuses and I now realize that was not the intent of your question.

I understand and accept there are a myriad of reasons for people wanting to go out in public. For many it is an affirmation of expressing their " authentic self". For me my authentic self is the male life I am perfectly content in existing in 99% of the time. Danielle is a temporary escape in enjoying looking and feeling female.

Simply stated I truly have no desire to be out in public as Danielle.

[Laurelei]

My first reply as a newbie ...

I described my first time out as a girl in my introduction. When i WAS ABOUT 12, I wore a skirt under my jeans, and took off my jeans when I reached the quiet wood not far from where I lived.

I reckon this is a good option for crossdressers wary of going out en femme in public. Go to a really quiet place, where there is little chance of bumping into someone. Then dress, and enjoy the feeling of being outdoors in your fave outfit. Maybe some get a buzz from the risk of crossdressing in, say, a town or city centre. I found my first dressed outing in that quiet wood both exciting and satisfying. Just me, the birds, the butterflies and ants, etc.

I don't go out en femme because I have the kind of male face that no amount of make up would stop me looking like a man wearing a dress. I'm not saying that guys with rugged faces should not go out dressed, it's simply not for me.

[Genifer Teal]

I can say there is an element of affirmation that I transformed well. That I look good. There is no real affirmation of something inside of me. Ironically, it's become who I am, but it did not start out as me needing to be who I am in side.

The idea of going out was a matter of what's there to do if I just stay home? I guess you could call that boredom of some kind. And then there's an element of a tree falling in a forest and no one's there to hear it. Like, what's the point of getting dressed up if no one sees me? Sure, I can look at myself when i'm standing in front of the mirror but everywhere else around the house i'm not seeing myself. it doesn't matter how I look. There needed to be a purpose to getting ready.

A small part of me wanted to experience the whole night in heels that I couldn't take off because I would have to go barefoot, the rest of the night and that wasn't a great option. Going out led me to meet friends, which then became an even bigger draw to going out. I'd rather be with my friends than stay home. And when I did that, I got to dress up and have even more fun by combining friends and dress up.

It was a situation that built on itself. I literally created a monster though i hope i'm not too scary.

[Amelie]

Unless one is a hermit, everyone goes out. It's just how they dress that makes a difference. Just do whatever makes you happy.

[DianeT]

It finally hit me yesterday. The simple question why don't you go out? It can be taken two ways. (Maybe even more I haven't thought of yet.)

Some people can read it as "what are the reasons that prevent you from going out or is there really no desire?"

Genifer I explained at least three times that what pushed my buttons was your sticking to the narrative of fear being the matter, or part of the matter, even for people like me saying otherwise. Other members said the same, three or four times. And you've posted repeatedly that you didn't understand what the fuss was about. I don't think that you have ill intentions, but please, read what people write to you.

P.S. I tried to message you privately a few days ago but your inbox is full.

[Rhonda Jean]

Well, my intention was not to start a thread just to continue the same argument.

DianeT, you and I have disagreed on a lot of things. We just come at things from different directions formed by different life experiences. But, I ALWAYS felt like we could disagree pretty forcefully and be GREAT FRIENDS after we'd exhausted the argument. Agreed to disagree, so to speak. At the risk of being proven wrong on that, I think you're getting your panties in a wad over nothing. I mean, really, nothing. Who cares who goes out and who doesn't? Further, if someone does care, who cares if they care? Hell, I'm confusing myself now, but I know I don't care!

I think it's as innocuous as "Do you fly pretty? If not, why not?" BTW, "flying pretty" is a term coined my the greatly missed TXKimberley. Kind of self explanatory. I do not fly pretty. Do not, will not, not desire to, don't care who tells me it's easy, fun, no big deal, a right of passage... I'm not offended in the least, I don't feel put down or misunderstood, or less-than. It's not my thing and it is someone else's and that's all cool! I think the whole going-out-or-not is about that kind of a discussion with about that much weight.

Having said that, I know what it's like to get your buttons pushed. The TS vs. CD used to REALLY get to me for a lot of reasons, particularly when I felt kind of dismissed by certain people.

I don't think you have to defend staying in. It's not a matter of choosing up sides. I do think it's interesting to hear about what we all do, and what makes us tick. Going out or not is just one of a million things. I hope we're not all trying to find someone to look down on, and I don't think we are. By the nature of this forum, we talk about things that can be highly personal, sensitive, and volatile. When we try to understand others, we're trying to understand ourselves. None of us have this all figured out.

[Genifer Teal]

Apparently i've been part of a debate I didn't even know existed. I don't care if anyone goes out or not. I just asked why. It was my thread, so I stayed part of the conversation as more people answered. Maybe my continuing to ask why seemed like a disagreement? There's nothing to agree or disagree with. You just do it for whatever reason you say.That's all I was asking.

I start very few conversations here.I will probably start even less now. I mean, i'm not one to ask what color is on your nails right now?I'm more likely to ask questions like this, so I'll probably leave them alone.

[Traci H]

Genifer, I hate to see you back away from starting threads. As Rhonda just stated, none of us have this figured out! These threads can get taken a little bit one way or anyone and get out of whack. I personally don?t like to see anyone get upset and back away. Just sort of selfish reasons, I like to jump on board and see lots of new activity with members. When I can?t dress, I can live it through others!

Traci

[DianeT]

Rhonda Jean you know how I love you, but you're missing my point, like Genifer. I'll MP you.

[Sandi Beech]

Well my take on this is that Gennifer already apologized. I did not join this site for petty bickering. Let?s drop it please.

Sandi.

[docrobbysherry]

Rhonda Jean, I know this is off topic but u brought it up. There IS a huge difference between trans and CD's.:eek:

The constant compulsion to present as the woman u feel u r inside.:battingeyelashes:

As opposed to enjoying the many feelings involved when u dress and present as female!:o

[char GG]

This thread has run it's course.



This is Di adding to Chars post .
I am so bloody ticked off that you all can’t act civil .

Why is it anyone’s business if you go out or not.
Go out or don’t go out.
You have your reasons and it is nobody’s business but you and maybe your wife.

From here on out any discussion or comments on how others live
Action will be taken using this rule
Ridiculing members/non-members, or the manner in which they express themselves. This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership dress, the way they express themselves (such as spelling and language skills, and any mention of religious beliefs, political preferences and affiliations, sexual preference.
Live your own life and leave others to live their own.