What happened

[Maria 60]

Last weekend we were doing the cloths winter/Summer change over. In the closet she showed me a section of cloths and told me those clothes don't fit her anymore and that I can borrow the skirts but prefers I put them back there in case one day they will fit her again.
During the week I put on one of the jean skirts that was in the closet section and there was a lacy top next to it so I put that on too. When my wife seen me she made the comment " I give a finger and you take the hand", referring to she gave permission for the skirts and now I'm wearing a top too. She was right and I apologized explaining she did say she was probably never going to wear those clothes again but I should have asked. Well it didn't take long for the table to turn and revenge is alway sweet. On Friday she was invited to a company Christmas dinner at a restaurant with some other co-workers and see came home and changed and left before I got home from work. Well when she got home and took off her coat I instantly made the comment that her dress she was wearing looked very familiar to me. She smirked and then I told her I know she doesn't own any pantyhose so I guess those are mine too. I asked her to sit next to me so I could feel her pantyhosed legs because she hasn't worn pantyhose since last New Years and I'm tired of getting a thrill feeling my pantyhosed legs all the time.
She sat next to me and then I had to ask her what happened to her, she really let herself go. When we were dating and even way after we were married she would always dress with skirts and dresses to work and home or family functions. On Sunday's we would go to church and she would always dress up. I told her I understand that the work dress code is more casual these days and it's probably more about comfort now. I asked her what she would have did if her husband wasn't a freak and had that dress and pantyhose. I then told her I know she doesn't own a regular bra and that all she has are those Genie or sports bras so I'm more then sure she is wearing one of my bras also because her bras will not go well with that dress. She smirked again verifying she was wearing one of my bras. I asked her if maybe she doesn't buy those things because she depends on me or knowing in case she needs them I have them for her. She said she tried on a few of her dresses and didn't like them and then tried on some of mine and then choose one of mine, if I wasn't a freak she probably would have stopped at a store to buy some pantyhose and more then likely put them on in the car on the way there. She admitted I was right about the bra, she didn't like how her bra looked with that dress and choose one of my push up bras to give her breast a better profile in that dress. She then smirked and also thanked me for borrowing my ankle bracelet and toe ring and earrings. I told her I'm only giving her a hard time because of the comment she made during the week about when I was wearing her top. I asked her not to get me wrong because I'm flattered that she's wearing my things and happy that I could help her out in anyway and anything that comes out positive from this curse only makes me happy.
I just don't understand because I'm a man and I feel if I was a women I would want some assortment of at least pantyhose or different styles bras at least on hand for different outfits, and different jewelry but my wife had nothing anymore. She thanked me and apologized for not asking me before borrowing my things and she admitted that maybe she doesn't buy some things knowing that for that one or two occasions she needs something I will have her back and have it.
Sorry it was a little long but I guess I wanted to explain and still can't figure out how not just my wife but I hear it from a lot of our friends that there wife's just don't dress like they used to and wear more comfortable and casual cloths but not even own anything in case they do need to dress up. I guess I miss seeing women dressed more dressy and miss my wife wearing skirts and dresses and pantyhose. I don't know what happened, it must be about comfort.

[char GG]

I'll just give my opinion here.

Women dress up for "an occasion" not to sit around the house dressed up. Not to eat a meal at home, not to go for a drive in the car and not get out, but to go to a nice restaurant, a play, a concert, a wedding, even a movie date. I see in your thread that she had been to "a company Christmas dinner at a restaurant". Yes - bingo - an event to dress up for!

Dress codes at many workplaces have relaxed so the time spent wearing uncomfortable pantyhose, shoes, and watching so their skirts don't ride up, are a thing of the past.

My suggestion for all those who think that women don't dress up anymore - let there be a reason. It seems to me, CDers reason is that they just want to wear a dress. Period. Not so much for a woman.

So do date nights. Look at the events going on around town do things. You both may enjoy going out more.

Edit: Many of you know that I work at a music concert and play venue. The ladies show up to most shows (not the kid shows), dressed in dresses, heels, sparkles, (even the men wear sparkles). It's like an opportunity to wear the clothes that they don't wear around the house.

[SaraLin]

It's nice that your wife didn't have a meltdown when you wore her top, and it's flattering that she liked your things enough to wear when she wanted to get fancied up.

But please, PLEASE - stop referring to yourself as a freak! You're just not a regular, boring, plain-vanilla male.
That's doesn't have to be a bad thing.

[Suzie Petersen]

You think men who wear women's clothes are freaks, Maria?

[chrissy111]

Being referred to as a freak is better than some of the things people say about us.

[Jillcder]

No offense taken Maria but my wife is married to a freak also.

[Linda E. Woodworth]

I'm on Maria's side on this one.

Women do not dress up any more. My wife only wears hose for "special" occasions and there few and far between because she doesn't like to go out. Same for dresses. She quit wearing skirts years ago. Hell, I wear some of them occasionally.

I just came home from Europe and it was so refreshing to see women dressed as women! Skirts, dresses, blouse and YES hosiery always.

In the US "frumpy" is the order of the day. If a women dresses casual 9 times out of 10 she's going to wear leggings and a t-shirt. Fine for exercise but not every day running around. Then women complain that men don't pay attention to them! Hmmmm........

When I visited the home office years ago I was advised of an HR Complaint against a young intern. This girl rocked her dress and accessories. All the regular women took frumpy to a new level. The men paid attention to the intern and the frumpy gals filed the complaint!

Keep going Maria, I'm on your side.

[Dutchess]

As to the comment above mine.. I just wore a black velvet pantsuit with a jewel blue burnout velvet kimono over with 10 in fringe down the sides with very heavily stoned sandals at 8 am on a Sunday morning just now and yes I had the guys attn.
All over the store too...
I don't need to look like I stepped out of the twilight zone.

I saw no one in leggings and a shirt.

However I don't see why you'd think that was frumpy since 99% of you here champion leggings so...??

Anyway everyone except Char and I see that you all are so concerned with calling himself a freak that no one seems to notice or care that he told his wife she'd let herself go.

Please do NOT say things like this to the women in your lives.

[Steph_CD_62]

I remember as a kid, my grandmother would wear a dress everyday with some type of hosiery. From what I remember, most of the time it was a plain house dress but she would put on a nice dress for special occasions.

My mom wore slacks all the time and I only remember her wearing a dress for funerals. I know she had pantyhose, but I don't think she wore them that often.

My wife and ex-wife would only wear jeans and sweatpants and the very rare occasion would wear a dress. I still remember when my current wife's sister was getting married and my wife wore a dress, but she needed to borrow a slip from me which I never got back.

In my opinion women dress for comfort and rarely wear a dress. Slips are outdated, but I love to wear mine. Even for family get togethers my wife and daughter both wear jeans and a shirt. I sometimes wish my wife would get dressed up more, but I know it isn't her style, and I accept it.

[docrobbysherry]

Just a note, Char. I'm a CD not a trans and only dress to the 9's, But, just when I'm going out or for a shoot. I stopped dressing up at home eons ago! I know other CD's that do the same. It sounds like Maria is either a CD or a trans who is not able to fully express helrself?

On the other hand I know many trans that we meet at clubs and dressers events. They r all dressed up when we meet. They dress fem the rest of the time, too. But, it's mostly comfortable, plain, loose fitting clothing. Same as GG's wear:)

I don't know what to make of her freak comment? Maybe it was just an unthinking remark?:straightface:

[Traci H]

My wife used to rock a dress. Of course that was many years ago and frankly she has let herself go. Weight wise, it is not healthy for her. I just have never said anything to her. She is a smart woman and can figure it out for herself. Life is hard sometimes. I sometimes worry that she drinks too much, because of dealing with the fact that I CD. The last several weddings and funerals we have attended, it was dress pants and a sweater for her. I wore a suit. I can?t remember the last time she wore a dress.

One venue I still see some women dress up a bit is Sunday religious services. Some women, both young and old will don a dress and hosiery. Others, including guys can look like they just rolled out of bed. Guess I should be glad they at least got to the service.

[Jasmine23]

Hi Maria,
First of all, don't call yourself a freak, by doing that you're also calling all of us here freaks, which I assume you don't mean. We are not freaks, we just like wearing feminine clothing or presenting in a feminine way. Secondly, why didn't you just say to your wife that she can wear whatever she likes and that she doesn't have to ask permission if she wants to wear your stuff, she'll probably extend the offer to you too, so you'll both have double your wardrobe. I think women in general don't tend to wear dresses or skirts unless going to a special event, because they can wear dresses or skirts anytime without question, so normally will go for comfort over style, whereas for us when we dress up we want to look as feminine as possible, so dresses, skirts and heels are what we want to wear as we can't wear them in our normal lives. If we could wear skirts and dresses everyday, then eventually the novelty would wear off and we'd end up dressing similar to how women dress everyday, comfort over style!

[GretchenM]

I enjoyed your story because it seems like a real life series of events which it was. It is fascinating how we get wrapped up in terminology and the like and how men and women interact and how a woman and a CD interact. The dynamics are amazing. Wonderful post, but there are a few difficulties.

I completely agree with Char and Dutchess on your use of certain terms as being offensive. They really are even though it is not unusual to hear people use those terms. The fact is that when it comes to gender and language in a social environment, our culture is at a crossroad and has been there for some time. Many of the old terms of the 50's and 60's have been replaced, but not all. It is important in our society to try to be aware of how offensive some terms are, but perhaps where you live that difficulty has not undergone the shifts that have occurred elsewhere. Just try to be more aware of how certain terms can be offensive on a wider scale than is perhaps the case in your community. That said, going back to Victorian speaking is definitely overkill - we are all a lot more mature than that.

And Jasmine has an excellent point. It is not healthy to refer to yourself as a freak. You are different, I am different, most of us here are different than the garden variety person. But we are not freaks. That runs yourself down and after awhile you begin to wonder if it is true. Lots of people these days think we are freaks but it is not good to effectively agree with them as it just boosts their tendency to rundown that which they find different and also disagreeable. They may think there are only boys and girls and biological sex determines your gender, but that 19th century thinking is totally wrong and actually horribly insulting to everyone. Men are fully capable of feeling the same emotions women can feel and react in the same way, and visa versa. If modern science has discovered anything it is the fact that men and women are actually far more alike than they are different. But society can distort that into something unrecognizable and is done so on completely fabricated evidence. The fact that some men "suck it up" is not really being more masculine - it is confining and denying your emotions which is not psychologically healthy at all. It can be very damaging to person's self image. The more modern thinking about men and women is more closely associated with what appears natural to our species, but we still have a long ways to go to achieve the kind of equality that apparently existed in human societies 15,000 years ago. How do we know? Evidence. For example, Mammoth kills have been found where mixed in were the bones of men AND women who we apparently part of the hunting party and sadly got killed by the Mammoth. And the recovered spears were different as if one was for a woman and another one for a man. And there are many other bits of evidence that back then women were considered equal to men. What Happened? That is what history is for. Let's not relive it.

Be proud of who you are, so to speak, what you are. It is normal for you even though many would not behave that way. There is no one correct way to behave in terms of Gender - there never has been and there never will be. We are individuals and as such we are all different. Celebrate the great diversity of human behaviors - it is NATURAL.

[Maria 60]

I should explain my wife for the longest time calls me her little freak. Almost like in a cute way like a little nickname. I never took offensive to it because shes not applying it in a bad way. So I guess I applied it in the post in a non offensive way because I don't take it as a bad thing coming from her and plus I kind of like it. It reminds me when we were teenagers and had nicknames for each other. I could totally understand others taking offence to it.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Maria :hugs:, All I can Say is that you are a very Lucky person to have such a Special:love:Wife !!

[ColleenA]

Comments on this thread include the following statements:
"it was so refreshing to see women dressed as women!"
"All the regular women took frumpy to a new level."
"women dress for comfort and rarely wear a dress."
I have often seen similar sentiments in other threads.

I don't know where all of you are from, but where I live I daily see women dress in the whole range of clothing available to them - skirts of all lengths, sun dresses, skirt and blazer outfits, pantsuits, slacks, jeans, leggings with tees, capris, shorts ...

Or maybe I'm just obtuse and there are a lot more crossdressers around here than I ever imagined.

[Marketa]

Awwww, I could literally feel the love you've got for each other from your post, Maria.

And I don't know where you live and work, but maybe try to look better at women. Here in Prague you can see people dressed from "I wouldn't wear that if my life was depending on it' all the way up to "I have to buy this outfit" and that's for men as well as women. Even though men go more often for the comfy style than women.

So maybe just look a little better and try to look for things to complement?

[Genifer Teal]

This is why I hate casual themed weddings. A missed opportunity to get all dressed up and see others dressed up too. Such a disappointment

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

Freaks unite! :)
Don't worry, Maria, I have think skin and if you call me a freak I can own that! (I refer to myself as a freak all the time with my own wife when some CD thing is mentioned) And my wife has been known to borrow (really outright steal) things from my side of the closet before (which I'm ok with, mostly because it validates my freakiness!)
However, I would NEVER mention to my wife that she's let herself go! I'd likely leave home with new holes in me. But I also see that you were talking about her not dressing up anymore and not body issues, so that's probably different.

I rarely see women in dresses or skirts, but then I don't go to church or clubs or fancy parties. Leggings and yoga pants seem to be the go-to these days, and short shorts (at least shorter than what a "real man" would wear) in warmer weather.

[alwayshave]

I'm with the others. The words "let herself go" shall never part my lips in front of my wife.

[Maria 60]

You know I didn't tell my wife she has let herself go, I'm 61 years old I think I've been around the block a few times to know that if she really did let herself go it would be first of all be rode and second what would land me in the dog house. For some reason when women do gain weight they always seem to find a way to always look amazing. When I gain weight it hits always in the belly area and there's no male shirt to hide that.

[Suzie Petersen]

Maria: You know I didn't tell my wife she has let herself go
Ah .... then we must have all misunderstood you somehow, Maria! Strange how several people got that phrase exactly the same, even though it is not written in the initial post ... anymore.

I do see you edited the OP yesterday, so perhaps some of the text got lost, somehow.

But aside from some of the slightly awkward things in this thread, I do think it is great to read that you seem to have a very relaxed relationship with your wife about your desire to wear women's clothing to some level now and then.
I think being at a point where you can share clothing with each other is just wonderful, and I hope you both feel you benefit from such a relaxed relationship.

As for the change in dress code over the years, I think we sometimes read too much into it here. Yes, both women and men have changed in what they wear on a daily basis, and it does seem to me that it is shifting towards a more relaxed dress code. Of course this will be different depending on where in the world you live, and to say things like: I was out today and did not see anyone wearing leggings, it about as valid as saying I was in the forest today and did not see a single squirrel, so therefore there are no squirrels in this forest. Not really valid, on a global basis.

To me, the thing is that dress code has simply changed over the years for whatever reason. By my observations, this is the case for both men and women, everything has become more casual and relaxed.

When people (the cd's, to be clear) on this forum say they like to "dress as women", then perhaps the better term is that they like to "dress like they imagine or remember women dress". Or perhaps the even better way of saying it is, they like to dress like crossdressers! Fine.

Societal norms have changed in my lifetime. Before, it was very important for both men and women to live in a family relationship with a mom, a dad, 2.4 children, a home, a car, and both a dog and a cat ... on average.
These days, it is much more "normal" for a woman to be a single mother and for a man to still be trying to "find himself". If you ask me, this is fuc... up on several levels, but it is what it is and I am probably old fashioned in many ways.

My point is, women are no longer trying as hard to fit into a societal norm as they were maybe 50 - 60 years ago, or rather, the norm has relaxed a fair bit. If women do their own thing now, they are no longer judged as they were in the past, and everybody is fine with that. This is good, if you ask me.
Men are still expected to generally be jerks, and I don't really think that has changed much in a very long time. This is bad, if you ask me, but unlikely to change.

My personal opinion is that I like when people try a little harder to look good on a daily basis, and especially for special occasions. As a man, I am terrible at that, too be honest, so I recognice that I am part of the reason these norms have shifted, but I do wish it wasn't so. When I dress up and present a a woman, I thoroughly enjoy looking as good as I can, even if the norms I try to fit in with are norms that may now only exist in my head. I sometimes try to blend, and sometimes try to look better. I sometimes feel like I am the only one in that location who is!

These constant debates of what we all think a woman is supposed to look like are really irrelevant. What matters is only what makes you feel good, weather that is the norm or not.

Telling a woman, a wife, a girlfriend, or a fellow crossdresser that they do not look as they are "expected" to look will never go well, and it's generally a really bad idea.
Encourage others when you feel you can, and if you can't, see if you can find that old track by Simon and Garfunkle: The sound of silence.
Remember what your mother told you, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything".

Btw, I have a soap box for rent! It is only $0.02 for an hour!

[ColleenA]

... perhaps the even better way of saying it is, they like to dress like crossdressers!

Suzie, this statement reminds me of a joke I heard more than 20 years ago: How do you spot the crossdresser in a crowd of women? She's the one wearing a dress.

[DianeT]

Crossdressers thinking women don't dress up anymore, how is that for a breaking news.

Maria, if you miss your wife wearing pantyhose, I would suggest that you simply tell her. I'm sure she'll be glad to oblige once in a while to please you. In winter, my wife very seldom wears pantyhose outside (rather jeans), but often does at home because she knows I love it. This is what couples do, little things to please each other. I'm not sure she'd do it if all I did was lecturing her about it.

[Mercedes]

Hello Maria,

There was another comment in your post that got my attention,

“I'm flattered that she's wearing my things and happy that I could help her out in anyway and anything that comes out positive from this curse only makes me happy.“

Given your detail on the freak comment, I wonder if the use of the word ‘curse’ was also something that is casually used by you and your misses.

I feel my crossdressing is a gift for lots of reasons, and I am sure many other of us here feel the same. Hopefully you do as well and it was just a casual comment.

Mercedes. XOXOXO

[SophiaRose]

I agree Mercedes. Yes, we're crossdressers, out of the norm of society, and freaks to the toxic that walk among us. If given the chance to take a pill and be "cured", I'd flush it. I too feel it's a gift. How could something that elicits so much joy be anything else?

[Susan_Michaela]

Suzie, this statement reminds me of a joke I heard more than 20 years ago: How do you spot the crossdresser in a crowd of women? She's the one wearing a dress.

LOL good one I know another one I used to go everyday to a Jerry?s restaurant for coffee and all the servers wore a dress uniform with pantyhose and I ask one when I went in ?Do you know how to tell if a woman is wearing pantyhose? She didn?t really have an answer. I said their ankles swell when they fart. I guess I?m the freak now 😊

[Stephanie47]

I think the same can be said of many men. When I was still working in a professional office environment I wore slacks, dress shirt, ties and shined shoes everyday. I've been retired for sixteen years and still have an assortment of "dressy" clothes hanging in the closet. I know guys who only own jeans and graphic tee shirts that should have been trashed a decade ago. Me? My preference is dresses. I consider women's jeans to be a no-go. If I want total comfort, it's jeans and a tee shirt. For total comfort the only difference between my wife and myself is she still feel obligated to wear a bra.

[JustineFallow]

I noticed the 'let herself go' crack, too, and winced LAMF. Yikes!😳

[Natalie5004]

Regarding wife's dressing up in great clothes. My wife is always wearing a cute outfit. She loves it. We go shopping together often at used clothing stores. There is a great one in Laguna Beach called "something rags". The clothes in that shop are curated by the staff and only high end clothes are there. My wife and I have spent hundreds of $ there, for her. None for me.

Trust me I look but most of the clothes are too small, like a size 8 and smaller. Those rich women will not eat.

So, in my wife's closet there are many beautiful clothes and she wears them to work almost every day. In the near future I will ask for both of us to get all dolled up together at home for a nice dinner, again.

[April Rose]

I have to admit my male clothes are in need of updating, but I just don't have any enthusiasm for it.

When I was in my twenties, the hippie type kids proudly called ourselves " freaks". It was a badge of honor. Straight people were uptight and boring.

[Philipa Jane]

Ah dress sense.
I do wonder at times what brings about our critical eye for what cis women wear.
At a number of lunches and dinners that I have been to recently I cast an eye over what everyone is wearing. I am the first to admit that I always dress to impress. I wonder if this is me trying inadvertently to compensate for not being a cis woman.
Last week I went to a fine dining restaurant with a friend and I did suggest " dress to impress". I did and she didn't in my eyes. I am sure she felt good in what she was wearing (Pants and top in Beige) which to me was so boring.
At a recent makeup presentation I was the only person wearing a dress and that was white and colourful, nothing like the pants and tops in blacks and dark colours. Boring.
So I am inclined to think that so many women around me just don't really worry too much about their appearance. They look tidy but not stand out. Where has the style gone?

[jazmine]

Im not exactly sure this comment fits the post, but during Thanksgiving, I heard my sister-in-law say, (I hate wearing dresses!) Then something to the extent, (you have to worry about how you move, sit and hitting your legs against things & such. Blah!)
She was wearing the standard legging-thing with some sort of cardigan.
I just sat there and did the proverbial face-palm in my mind, thinking to myself (Well. I guess any sort of sheer nylon leg ware is completely out of the question too!) Lol.
She is my wifes younger sis. The princess growing up. My wife was the tomboy. I don-t know. Maybe she got tired of it all.

Its like loving Up North & wanting desperately to have a cabin in the forest, only to sit next to someone who actually has a house in the forest & sez, (Gawd! I hate trees!) lol.

{As always Maria, I love your posts/threads!}
❤️❤️❤️