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Sophie Yang
11-25-2024, 11:56 AM
Philipa Jane's 'Misgendering??' thread and her friend Caz's responce got me thinking.

1. How many of us have had someone say something to you, as a friend/ally, about a perceived slight against you. big or small, from their perspective? The slight may be the use of the incorrect pronoun. Most of the time this doesn't bother me. When my mother was alive, we went out to eat often. When the waiter or waitress came by at the end of the meal, my mom would sometimes say he when referring to me as Sophie. Sometimes on these occasions, I would get a second glance. I figure if my mom could not get it right, I can't expect strangers to get it right all the time either.


2. A variation of the first question is that someone has taken great offense to something said to him/her and responds loudly
and negatively. Based on the explosive response, you get the feeling that offending comment may have been directly/indirectly about/against
you.

3. For those who have exprienced this, is it the women or the men who are defending you against the perceived or actual offense?

For me, the both have occurrd in my Ju-Jitsu classes. The first happened probably over nine months ago. I was training with a women, a purple belt. She asked a male purple belt for counter techniques that I had used on her. She and I were going through the different positions and she was talking with him. Somewhere in the conversation, he used an incorrect pronoun. When he left, she came up to me and said something along the lines are you ok and that she would always have my back.

The second incident happened last Wednesday during our open mat session. Now I did not hear what was actually said between the two,
an 80-90 lbs women, white belt, and a 180 -200 lbs guy, purple. I have rolled with both of them and they are both pretty easy going. She was so mad that she was yelling at him, something about gender, and stormed off the mat and continue yelling at him and that it was not acceptable. He tried to apologize, but she wasn't in an accepting mood at the time. One of the head coaches of the school was on the mat at the time and asked them to take it outside. She left and the head coach and he had a private discussion in his office. On my way out, she was outside, barefoot, standing the rain talking to the other head coach. I did not want to interrupt their private conversation. As I was driving away, the two were still talking. I rolled down my window and asked her if I could take out to get a drink or something to eat. She said her husband was coming to
pick her up and that the issue was between her and him.

Hopefully I will have an opportunity to talk with her during tonight's womens class. Not quite sure what to say, so maybe just shut-up
and listen.

In my two cases, it is women. In general, women have much more empathy than men. Before I started taking the classes, Sophie watched the
different styles taught during the evening classes. While watching the women's class, there were several candid remarks about rolling with
the guys. Afterwards I asked if I could join the class and they would have a guy to toss around. I was welcomed with open arms and legs.

On one occassion, I don't remember the exact context, my youngest brother said you can dress any damn way I want. One time while we were ordering food to go at a resturant, he referred to me as "he" and later asked me about it. Like my mom, I will always be his older brother and he
may not get the pronouns right. As a side note, my siblings all call me the Dog, no matter how I am dressed. I don't know how that got
started.

Besides 'thank you', just curious how you would respond to 1 and 2?

For those in the States, have a great Thanksgiving!

Sophie

Genifer Teal
11-25-2024, 12:26 PM
I prefer to fight (or not) my own battles. I would likely say very little in the moment hoping the situation diffuses itself. I'd later thank the person intervening for their kind intentions. Then explain i prefer to handle it myself and that I may choose to say/do nothing.

In this particular situation, I wouldn't want the people around me to think I have to be handled a certain way or spoken to carefully. I just want to be another person and if people don't address me correctly.I'll find the right way to correct them without making a big deal of it. I wouldn't want it to continue long term, but I also don't want to promote the idea that it is a big deal if that makes sense.

If it was some random person in new york city where I would frequently be out, I would be extremely angry if someone tried to defend me (with words. By all means jump in if i'm being attacked physically, lol) It has long been my belief that the less you say to someone, the less likely you are going to make the situation worse. A few words back and forth can get violent quickly, and I would never risk that. People have different opinions if this would happen, but this is my choice of how to handle those situations. So if you were to speak out on my behalf in public, at some random idiot, I wouldn't stand for that at all, and I'd shut you down quickly. It would be for both our safety.

kimdl93
11-25-2024, 12:30 PM
I have not encountered too many situations like that. I can think of one female friend in particular who was quite offended, I guess on my behalf, by an overheard remark. I appreciated her support, but also reassured her that I had a reasonably thick skin about being misgendered.

docrobbysherry
11-25-2024, 12:41 PM
When I get misgendered I could care less if it's done innocently by an SA or waitress. Ho hum!

However, there have been cases when referring to a CD or T, I called her, "him", when speaking with a dresser friend!:doh:
I feel so embarrased when I have to correct myself!:o

alwayshave
11-26-2024, 08:17 AM
While out in the wild, I have been misgendered just once. It was by a male waiter. At the time I did not react. I wish I could say it did not bother me, but I still think about it.

April Rose
11-26-2024, 10:04 AM
This is my take on it. All of us in the transgender spectrum together are still a very tiny minority of the population. On top of that, many of us are in the closet. So, the general population does not encounter us on a daily basis. They are going to make mistakes. I make mistakes. I have misgendered a fully transitioned transwoman who is one of my closest friends in the trans world. I did it at a Tiffany club meeting at a table full of CD'ers. It happens.

I am a person who chooses to avail myself of happiness. You can't make yourself be happy. You can only be open to it. So when someone mispronounces my name, or puts sugar in my coffee when I wanted none, I'm going to assume it was an error and correct them in the gentlest, good humored way possible.

It's the same way with misgendered pronouns. Unless it was done as an obviously intentional slight, I'm going to let it slide. And I'm not going to look for that slight. They are going to have to hit me on the head with it.

It has never happened to me, but if someone with me were to over react to a misgendering I would like to think that I would gently correct them, as well.

Because I choose to accept happiness, and forgiving people, in my experience , are happier people.

Philipa Jane
11-30-2024, 01:03 AM
I will chime in here as I may have been a catalyst for this thread.
When this did happen to me I just took it in my stride. Water off a duck back. I could care less.
People can get caught up in trying to say the right thing when if they said nothing at all it would be better.
When Caz felt the need to defend me was nice but not necessary as she had no idea how I felt in regard to someone outing me or misgendering me.
I may have felt embarrassed if the person had announced it to the other patrons in the restaurant but that never happened.
To be out in the public eye dressed as a woman you need to have a thick skin. (Just in Case)

Sophie Yang
12-01-2024, 11:26 AM
Ladies,

Here is an update. When I arrived for the Women's class on Monday, she was already there talking with the instructor and one other student. She came up and apologized for the incident the previous week. It was something he had said to her and not directed towards me. The other student who was on the mat when the outburst occurred showed up a little bit later and she also got a big apology and a big hug.

She and one other gal showed up for the open mat Wenesday night class. It was just the three of us. So much fun. I shared with them some of the techniques I learned earlier in the day. I told her that two of the techniques reminded me of her. She is very squirmy on her back and keeps her legs always towards you, or on you, making it difficult to close the distance. The technique uses this skill to escape side mount rolling the opponent onto her back or gaining guard. The second technique involves defending against a choke and/or arm bar. The reason it reminded me of her is that she is the only one to choke me out, out cold.

On Saturday, he showed up for class and we rolled after class. Nothing different, he still waits for me to make a mistake, capitalizes on it, and makes me tap out.

As Doc said 'I could care less if it's done innocently by an SA or waitress. Ho hum!'. When out and about, I don't get misgendered all that often. I cannot remember the last time it happened. In class, there are innocent misstatements of pronouns. There is no way for people to not know when in physical contact with each other. I agree with you ladies, I don't need people defending me. I can defend myself. When the incident occurred, there was a lot of screaming about misunderstanding gender which caught my attention. In addition to that, I know that she has been hurt in the past, and part of my response, is I wanted to protect her.

Hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Sophie

Genifer Teal
12-01-2024, 04:28 PM
There is some value to the fact that some random person, not understanding my gender is kind of irrelevant. It confuses me that makeup, a dress, long nails, and heels, and someone would still choose, sir? I don't know what they're thinking. One thought is it's their way of saying you didn't fool me.I'm not accepting what you're trying to do.You're still a man, and i'm gonna make sure you know it. That may not be the case, especially today, when people look all different ways and have all different ideas what their gender is. If that's what they're thinking, the better answer is to not choose because you don't know what gender they prefer. To add to my confusion, i've been mammed with no makeup not even trying. Now that's always fun. I've even gotten sir ed at sephora which was also weird.

Regardless of all this, I'll react and deal with it myself. The last thing I need is someone intervening on my behalf, hoping to fix the situation, but probably making it much worse. Depending on the scenario, but I would generally prefer to walk away than have it escalate .