Why are we so willfully ignorant or why are we so blind?

[2B Natasha]

I am sure you have all heard the term ? Doom Scrolling? by now. Hard to mis it in the current environment. For those that perhaps don?t.

Doomscrolling is the act of spending too much time reading or scrolling through negative news or other content that makes you feel sad, anxious, or angry.

One of my favorite activities on this site. When I need a good slap down or to have to veil lifted about acceptance. I read through the ask a GG question thread. Especially #3 page 11+ today. I encourage you to go read it. I think it may adjust your reality.

Do we as a group hate women, like is postulated?
Do we mock women?
Have we only transferred our male ego complex of superiority knowitallness and women?s perceived helplessness to the point that instead of joining and being part of we are trying to rule the space?
Are we unable to let women just change how they dress and activities they do naturally and just let them be?
Why are we so unable to accept that women change and grow and blossom as people?
Are we so blind to how our spouses feel?
Are we listening to them but not hearing them?

They mention all the threads about dresses and hose and panties and skirts??. And how we as a group bemoan them not wearing these things and oh if only they would wear this or that the world would be perfect. And I have to agree with the women. They?re perfect just as they are. Funny enough they have managed to dress thyself for their whole lifestyle and are stilling it everyday. You sit on here and talk about makeup and how you need so much work and yada yada yada. Remember a lot of women started with their makeup routine when they where little and learned through trial and error and a TON of times. Perhaps they are just through with it. The time every morning and the cost. Just to be objectified by the males population. It?s so sad that we like this.

To their point about some of us dressing like a hooker or not our age. I have a reason/explanation for that. It?s pretty simple but I think it makes sense. I?ll post it if anyone wants to know.

To come clean. I do not consider myself to be a crossdresser any longer but have come to accept myself as gender fluid. My closet is equal parts cis men and cis women clothing. And I do bemoan society not getting dolled up to go out or tot he theatre. Both genders, not just one. For the love all thats holy find a IRON PEOPLE! I love get a chance to wear something besides the everyday garb. Nice dress or skirt and a nice top with hose IF the outfit seems to need it to be complete and a great pair of flats. But I am not wearing that everyday. Everyday clothing is great. A pair of Spanx faux leather leggings, lined in the winter months a pair white sneakers and a long hoodie and let?s go! Love a good Skort in the spring. I also cut a pretty fine jibe in a suit jacket and dress pants and dress shoes.

[JulieC]

After reading some of that thread, I will say this: The gulf of understanding between cis men and cis women is enormous. There are intensely dramatic misunderstandings from both sides of that chasm.

[docrobbysherry]

Natasha, I couldn't find the post u referred to? Maybe next time u can include the comment you're referring to make it easier to find?:thumbsup:

You'll get more responses that way. Happy New year!:)

[2B Natasha]

It's not a comment, it's the whole thread from that point, and that's the point. Ask a GG #3, page11 - to the end of the thread. Also I don't expect to ge many responses. My threads never do. It' a thing.

[Brynna M]

So I looked at the thread and I'm not seeing mockery or hatred toward women. Not understanding women and the distinction of being a woman everyday and dressing up as a woman for enjoyment. But the picture you paint is far darker than what I see.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Maby this is a question with a Million different answers

[2B Natasha]

I think that the essence of CDing is objectification, leading sometimes to fetishism. And objectification isn't a tribute to women, notwithstanding the statements some CDers make routinely about their adoration of women. Especially when we GGs can observe how often the female outfits chosen by CDers are stereotyped and their views about femininity outdated. So I have to agree with your wife Robin. Agree also with Di and Char about feeling that some CDers really hate women.

And I think that my hubby is objectifying women to some extent when he CDs.

This is a direct copy and paste from the thread.

- - - Updated - - -

let me be very clear here. This is more about how we see ourselves than how they see us. More about how we can sometimes fool ourselves into doing things that we are unaware of. We areal guilty of this myself included.

[JulieC]

For my part, in no way shape or form am I objectifying or making a tribute to women in any respect. What I do in crossdressing has NOTHING to do with objectification and everything to do with trying to learn, understand, and be the person I am. I was once asked by a close friend who knows I CD if I felt like a woman when I crossdressed. I told her "Absolutely not. I'm just trying to be me." I've no idea what it means to be a woman, and I'm not trying to be a woman. I'm trying to be me. Nobody gets to stereotype that, own that, or in any way take that away from me by attempting to categorize it in some ugly definition. As for hating women? That is so far out in left field that they haven't built the ball park where that ball landed. Loving or hating women has nothing to do with me trying to be me.

[DianeT]

The fact that you don't feel concerned at all by the comments doesn't mean they're irrelevant to all CDs. And I don't know how you dress, but as for myself, my dressing is influenced by stereotypes and when looking at the Pictures section this seems to be the case of a good share of the posting population there. So you can keep explaining that the comments don't apply to you in the least, and that is indeed a possibility, and others may prefer to ponder them and try to see where in the park (because that one exists for some of us) that ball has landed. Because, if you haven't seen hatred against women on this site in some occasions (and condescension in many others) I wonder where you were looking really.

[JulieC]

I noted in my first post on this thread that there is a chasm. Has there been hatred towards women on this site? Absolutely. But there's open hatred from across the other side of the chasm too. It justifies nothing of course. But, casting the wide net against all CDers that crossdressing is objectification is to say the least insulting.

[BrendaPDX]

I don't see this group as hateful, I hope I don't come across that way. I think this group is one of the best I have participated in.

[audreyinalbany]

I don't necessarily see it as 'hatred', but I do seem to see a lot of condescension toward women. i.e. 'why don't they wear dresses' and ' I love to get dressed and do housework" and such

[Brynna M]

I hate to ask to repost "hatred" but could someone please give a concrete example of hatred of women from this site? Beyond to odd bitter divorce I don't see anything I would term as mockery or hatred. I can see the out dated styles stereotypical styles and even fetishism arguments but I really don't understand the perception that this community has any malice toward women.

[Stephanie47]

Natasha, you threw out so many thoughts that many can be posted as individual topics. One could write a book with individual chapters. I read "Ask a GG." Some of queries are very serious. What is the scope of the last postings: How does a GG go to the bathroom when wearing a jump suit? all the way to a breast cancer survivor wife voicing her opinion of her husband wearing breast forms. One does not have to go "doomscrolling" when the daily news slaps everyone in the face with hateful and terrible news. I have to mute my television sometimes until it gets to the last segment of "feel good" stories. The "current environment?" Read the newspaper, watch the nightly newscast, listen to the rhetoric, it does not come across as supportive of any person who is not of the dominant group.

All I can really say is have serious discussions at length and not quick one word or paragraph answers. The scope of the charges brings to my mind a comment made too often on the polls taken that some percentage of people think "Society is headed in the wrong direction!" What direction is that?

[Genifer Teal]

The internet is full of men going their own way and confused women crying about having trouble finding a man. Sure, you can dress how you want, and it's wrong for men to tell you otherwise. Maybe listening to the men telling you what they want isn't such a bad thing. Men are entitled to what they want too. Hopefully there's some common ground left. I'll completely give up when women stop shaving.

[DianeT]

So if read you well Genifer, women can dress how they want, but they should listen more to men who want them dressed a certain way, or they won't find a man. My wife suggests you turn the tables around: if you crossdress and have difficulties finding a woman, will you listen and dress the way they want?

-- EDIT --
The use of the term "cry" in lieu of "complain" is a good example of condescension towards women. Case in point.

[chrissy111]

When we were first married we were in a club and a woman about our age asked my wife how she could be with a guy who dresses as a woman. My wife said because she loves me and they are just clothes. She also said how my love for her was everything to her, and told her if you can find someone who can love all of you then you will find happiness no matter how they dress.

[kimdl93]

Regarding doomscrolling, remember one important thing: You are the product, not the consumer. Every social media outlet employs algorithms that predict what will catch your attention, so that you can be sold to advertisers. The human brain, like that of any organism, is wired to respond to very basic stimuli, like fear and (various) appetites. Just like the evening news, your attention is drawn to real or imagined threats, scandals, food and sex.

I have only one thought regarding womens attitudes to CDs. In my personal experience, women have been (mostly) tolerant, kind and encouraging. I will assume that reflects their attitudes. As for those who may hold less favorable view, I would guess that some may be understandably put off by hyper sexualized caricatures of women. If the shoe is on the other foot, I have a similar reaction to some grossly stereotypical representations of males.

[SaraLin]

I don't necessarily see it as 'hatred', but I do seem to see a lot of condescension toward women. i.e. 'why don't they wear dresses' and ' I love to get dressed and do housework" and such

Audrey, Speaking for only myself (naturally!), I don't see this behavior as condescending. It's more like saying "I don't get it."

Have you ever been stuck in a conversation with someone who is a real sports, cars, or <gasp> soap opera fanatic? It's all they can talk about and they just can't understand how you can't share that passion.

I think the same kind of thinking applies when it comes to many CD'ers and their passion for all the uber-feminine wardrobe items. I honestly believe that the same "I love it, why don't they?" mentality applies. (Of course, there's also an element of liking the look when it's on GG's too.)

Now for those of us a bit further along the gender spectrum, our motivations and attitudes <IMO> drift closer to what GG's feel.
For example, I'm not "into" lacy undies, short skirts, or spiked heels - and bras can be a real pain. Give me something comfy, modest, and yes - feminine, any day.

[Stacy Darling]

Some of YOU are,
some of us are BEAUTIFULL.

[Genifer Teal]

Diane T nobody's telling anyone what to do. It's a supply and demand thing. Either we find what we want or we change what we want, or we do without. If men want a certain kind of women, they will seek to find them. If they don't find the woman they want, they have a decision to make. Maybe they're looking for something unreasonable. Maybe they will stick to their guns and do without. The same goes for women. They can be whoever they want. Maybe they will attract the man they want, maybe they won't. Maybe they will be happy not attracting a man. It's all their decision. No one's telling them what to do. At some point, they may decide they need to become more appealing if they want a man, but that's on them to decide. no one's telling them or making them do anything.That's not what i'm suggesting.
I can get you some links to the crying if you like. it really does exist, wasn't just a poor choice of words.

[2B Natasha]

To bring this back around. I do see/read a lot of us trying to shame our wives, girlfriends, sisters et al into how we want them to dress. I think we do a lot of this without even realizing it. When we are sitting and watching the oscars or Emmy's and say things like. I wish more women dressed like that or I remember when women dressed with more style etc etc. Those remarked stay with people when they make choices. We can make people feel bad or shame without even being in the room for a comment we made weeks ago. Shaming someone is akin to bullying them. Let people decide what they want to wear. If your wife has changed her dressing habits over the years, let her. It's her choice. Respect it.

[Traci H]

This thread has puzzled the heck out of me. I?m sure there is some element of truth to some of the responses but not much the way I see it. Are we a bit over the top in our desire to see women dress nicely? I suppose. But personally I have never pushed my wife to dress up more. I fact it has been the opposite. She has pushed me to wear a suit on many occasions, where she herself has not stepped up her dress. I don?t even say anything, so a double std as I often see it.

As far as respecting people?s choices in clothing, I can only hope my wife would accept mine. She does not at all if it veers towards the other side of the aisle.

[MarinaTwelve200]

I think those who accuse us of "hating or mocking women", etc. are the same who do not differentiate between homosexuality, CD or transsexualism, a very common manifestation of ignorance. When one has stereotypical and downright erroneous ideas about these things, and don't even know the difference between Three different conditions (or that they ARE different) All kinds of crazy Beliefs and assumptions are the results. The only one thing these three groups have in common, is a proclivity to dress in the clothing of the opposite sex.--- And for each group the reasons and drives are quite different. We might want to question the accusers as to why they hold a certain belief, then learn they are repeating myths that may even be related to one's specific condition. This is an excellent chance for exposing their ignorance and correcting them.

[docrobbysherry]

Nope, still can't find it:

Page 11, "male to female crossdressers" forum!:eek:

[Miel GG]

[U]let me be very clear here. This is more about how we see ourselves than how they see us. More about how we can sometimes fool ourselves into doing things that we are unaware of. We areal guilty of this myself included.

That. Food for thought, isn't that CD's are expecting when asking GGs directly ?
I didn't want to participate in this thread but I cannot stay silent when reading some questioning the reality of hate or the dismissal of women observed here. It is especially really disrespectful to refuse to at least believe Di or Char, because they are two women who are CD's allies and faithful moderators here. Really, shame on you.

[2B Natasha]

Nope, still can't find it:

Page 11, "male to female crossdressers" forum!:eek:

SO you can't find the area that is listed as " Male to female " at the top the page under sticky threads, 2nd thread listed as " Ask a GG - three and then go to page 11 and read from there? Really.

[Dutchess]

Yes, that is what I said too Natasha but I think some people think it's cute being willingly obtuse.. you clearly said ask a gg..


Regardless I think alot of these people made your point just in their answers.
A few posts show me someone's never even been with a female . But yes they can't or won't see it .
The thing is THAT attitude ( complete self unawareness , false vanity etc ) it's what's getting the cd/t community push back. Not "society" or bigots or drag queens reading stories but there's been enough of us hurt by this in our relationships that is starting to come out.

No one will read this either. If they do I'll get some kind of childish response.

It's why I don't contribute much anymore.

[char GG]

Mod note:

Please just move on and do not ask anyone to find and quote reasons for their opinion.

[Di]

I am not going back and looking up but from what I remember way in the past saying SOME CDers seem to hate women.
From SOME posts saying things like they dress much more feminine than their wives. Heres a concept…...you want to be accepted how you want to dress maybe feel the same about your loved ones.
Then others Talk about their wives in deplorable terms like they hate/ resent them.
Some
Not All
None lately
Just so you. Know GGs reading an open page to the public ( we hear a lot from new GGs how freeked out they are reading before joining)
You do have a private section to vent correct?

Then to address the posts where the Crossdresser KNOWS how women think and even though all of us GGs gently ( at first ) try to say none of us think that way but we are TOLD WE ARE WRONG .
These are posts in the past not recent but what I believe got everyone in an uproar.
The recent post was asking about Pet Peeves.
We gave examples.
Just so you know every GG here is supportive and why they are here.
Just because we are not just giving fluff answers but being real.
Being real will help you much more in the long run.

And last thing I want to address
ThankYou Miel GG for your kind words.
We as the GG Mods -Admin are talked to in pms in such deplorable terms called every name in the book for deleting or editing a post .
We try our best to be fair across the board but some have the attitude how dare a woman EVEN DARE to correct them.
Shocking in a CD TS forum eh?

Those that want a GGs opinion a truthful opinion ask us in the
Ask the GG thread.
I never lied to Sherlyn -
I am not going to start now. We give our opinions from our own lives.
We are very kind but truthful and to go out in the real world that?s needed.

Hope I addressed all the things you are debating.

Since the thread has deteriorated even further and I had to delete posts.
It is done !

Here is the thread
ASK A GG
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?269801-Ask-a-GG-Three

If anyone has a question to ask us we all try to be helpful.