Another coming out story, maybe I shouldn't have this time

[danniUK]

I did it again!
Last weekend I went out with some friends (used to be work colleges so used to see a lot more of each other but we all still keep in touch and semi-regualrly go out for a meal together).
The group consisted of me, Mike (nearly 60), Rob (40) and Alice (nearly 40). The names have been changed to protect the innocent, as they say.
So I had no intention of discussing things with them, though I knew Rob and Alice would be fine and would definitely have wanted to tell them at some point in the future.
Mike though - we've had disagreements in the past about some stuff and though I consoder him a friend it's not at rhe same level as Rob.or Alice, or indeed the other people that I've told in the past.

Anyway - beer and wine were flowing, we were sat.down for our meal and Mike starts to talk about his brother who unbeknown to me until then had been crossdressing for the last few years.
He was being very negative and using derogatory terminology, and it started to really annoy me.
Then finally he mentioned there was a funeral of a distant relative which his brother had attended in drab, on which he remarked "So at least he did the decent thing."

I know I should've kept quiet, this'd be coming out to someone I definitely knew would respond negatively, and there may be repercussions because of that.
But "decent thing' just tipped me over the edge.

I opened my phone and brought up the photo that I've shown to friends recently (my profile pic) and showed it round the table.

"I wasn't planning on talking to you guys about this, at least not tonight, but this feels like a good time to tell you all that I often spend my spare time looking like this."

I tried to kep the tone of conversation as light as I could, but it was very much in the vein of "You talk like that about someone else, you're talking like that about me". The conversation then moved onto how Alice, who's a lesbian, had a similar conversation with her father after he'd made some vaguely homophobic comments about gay men.

Mike didn't say a huge amount, Rob had questions (mostly about my beard, since I quite often let it grow if I'm not going to be en femme so he's used to seeing me mostly with facial hair). Alice rather sweetly said thank you for telling us, it must have taken a lot of courage. I thought it was lovely that she'd said that so I messaged her the following morning to say thanks. She replied "You deserve a medal for bringing it up in front of bloody Mike!"

I'm wondering if it'll have repercussions, whether Mike'll tell people. To be honest he's a pretty peripheral friend, and he doesn't even still work at our old company so I'm not sure who he would tell.
So overall I'm happy that it happened, Rob and Alice were people I definitely wanted to tell eventually.

I'm also wondering if Mike's (not his real name of course) brother is on this forum!

[Helen_Highwater]

Danni,

The fact Mike didn't say that much is perhaps an indication of his lack of real conviction.

Telling others will always carry risk. It's a genie once out the bottle you have no real control over. Good for you for speaking out.

[Stefanie Taylor]

Wow!

You 100% did the right thing, damn brave with it!

More power to you girl ❤️

[Raychel]

Wow, Good for you, You absolutely did the right thing.
If Mike has an issue, it sounds like he was or is not the best of friends.
A true friend will accept you and embrace you no matter how you are dressed
If he does tell people and they too have an issue, then it tells you just who the true friends are.
It is way better to have a few really close friends that are there with you no matter what
than to have 1000 friends that will stab you in the back when you aren't looking.

Mike would probably have a problem with Alice being a lesbian as well.
Good for you for standing up for yourself, his brother, Alice and all others in the group we are in.

HUGE HIGH FIVE. :) :) :) :)

[docrobbysherry]

I'm not good at predicting the future of people I know nothing about, Danni. So, with Mike I'll just with u luck!:straightface:

[Suzie Petersen]

Danni,

Good for you, speaking up! You definitely took some risk there, and who knows what might happen because of it.
Since you are already in the process of outing your self to people who know you well, it probably didn't feel that difficult, even though it was pretty clear "Mike" would not be supportive.

So what to do next? Well .. maybe there is a soul to save here! "Mike" clearly has an issue with his brothers crossdressing, but I think quite often people speak like that because of their own insecurities and a desire to not be seen as supportive of something they expect other people would be against. "Howl with the wolves you are amongst", sorta' thing. Perhaps he expected the 3 of you to be in agreement with what he was saying. He might have been surprised by finding himself to be a minority!

Just a suggesting of course, but you could reach out to "Mike" and offer to answer any questions he might have, to perhaps make him better understand and maybe accept, his own brother. Or as a minimum, try to get him to understand the significant damage he is doing by speaking like that about people like us, and about his own brother. Ultimately putting peoples lives in danger.

Or, you can ignore him and leave him behind, and he will continue doing this.

As for damage control, I don't think there is anything you can do really. If you chose to do something like I suggest above, it would likely help, but I wouldn't go to him and ask not to spread it or anything like that. It would likely not work and could potentially make it worse, if that is what he wants to do.

I think you are very brave for telling your other friends, as you have told us about before, so this move does not surprise me much.
Good luck, whatever you do.

[CarlaWestin]

Such a beautiful comment from Alice. Good women appreciate that maybe we do see things through a woman's eye.
And she definitely sees your bravery as a strong positive trait.
I hope you enjoyed the rush of that, "As a matter of fact......" moment.
And, we do always cary the best pictures with us, right?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Danni,



Telling others will always carry risk. It's a genie once out the bottle you have no real control over. Good for you for speaking out.

Helen, It is like Line #4 in my Signature,


Hi Danni, I hope that it all works out for you,

[kimdl93]

Wow! Trying to put myself in your shoes in that movement. I am not sure I would have had the courage or integrity to respond so well.

[Shelly Preston]

Mike is obviously annoyed with his brothers crossdressing.

I am sure he was shocked as he was expecting everyone to agree with him.

This maybe a lesson that he will learn. You just never know who you could be talking with.

I admire you taking a stance on this.

[danniUK]

Danni,
Telling others will always carry risk. It's a genie once out the bottle you have no real control over. Good for you for speaking out.

Thanks Helen.
He's in touch with a couple of other people that I stillnkeep in touch with from my old job but they're all neither in the "they'll be fine" or "I don't care what they think" category.
I guess there's always the chance that some of those might then talk to other people but again, I can't think of a way that could end up reaching someone that I don't want knowing.

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Wow!

You 100% did the right thing, damn brave with it!

More power to you girl ❤️

Thanks Stefanie!

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I'm not good at predicting the future of people I know nothing about, Danni. So, with Mike I'll just with u luck!:straightface:

Thanks Sherry :)

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Just a suggesting of course, but you could reach out to "Mike" and offer to answer any questions he might have, to perhaps make him better understand and maybe accept, his own brother
Hi Suzie
I have indeed considered this. I don't think I'd reach out directly but rather would wait until we're next on a night out together and see if he wanted to talk.
Though I doubt it'd change/help his relationship with his brother; I do remember from coffee break conversations over the years in our old job that they've been strained for a long time, long before dressing came into the picture.

[Genifer Teal]

Imagine if you had said to mike, I watch p**n and jack off all weekend, can I tell you all about it? He might feel similarly disinterested in knowing the details of your dressing. This is likely because he also connects your dressing to some kind of sexual activity.

It may pique his curiosity and come across as helpful if you say you know that issue your brother is going through? Maybe I can help you understand him more.

What i've noticed is people don't perceive that being dressed is the end goal. They think there must be some other goal in mind. Why are you dressing this way? where are you going? What are you doing? What are you trying to do that you need to be dressed this way?

I think it's those thoughts that lead them down a path of All the awful things you might be doing. The idea of getting dressed up just for the sake of being dressed up doesn't even come to mind for them.

[danniUK]

Such a beautiful comment from Alice. Good women appreciate that maybe we do see things through a woman's eye.
And she definitely sees your bravery as a strong positive trait.
I hope you enjoyed the rush of that, "As a matter of fact......" moment.
Hi Carla
Yes - I think she's come out enough times to know how big a deal it can be, it really was a great response to get!

And yes - that moment was very satisfying!

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Mike would probably have a problem with Alice being a lesbian as well.
Good for you for standing up for yourself, his brother, Alice and all others in the group we are in.

HUGE HIGH FIVE. :) :) :) :)

Thanks Raychel!
Ah no, Mike has that classic toxic masculine attitude to this:
Men having sex - oh no, all squeamish.
Women having sex - ooh, can I watch?

[SophiaRose]

Standing up for yourself, and indirectly the rest of us, has got to feel great and give you so much more confidence. Thank you! Mike will be Mike and since he's a peripheral friend it really doesn't matter what he thinks right? If he wants to grumble about it to others, let him. You stuck to your core values and that's what's important.

[danniUK]

Helen, It is like Line #4 in my Signature,


Hi Danni, I hope that it all works out for you,
Hi Blue
True, you can't unring a bell. But I think I'm at the stage in my life where there's very few people who I'd care about knowing... probably just my in-laws.and my kids. Infact my eldest I don't think I'd mind knowing (and I think he'd be fine with it) but my youngest I'd still just a bit young.
But them aside, I'm happy to ring the bell loud and proud!

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Wow! Trying to put myself in your shoes in that movement. I am not sure I would have had the courage or integrity to respond so well.

Hi Kim
I did surprise myself a little, I'd been getting increasingly annoyed but when I started talking about it I was calmness personified.

Maybe my conversation skills are becoming more feminine too :)

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I am sure he was shocked as he was expecting everyone to agree with him.

This maybe a lesson that he will learn. You just never know who you could be talking with.

I admire you taking a stance on this.
Hi Shelly
Thank you!
Yes I think by the tone he started with he wasn't expecting any disagreement, which in itself was a bit wierd to me since he knows that Alice is gay and I'm bi. Why wouldn't he have expected us to have a different viewpoint? I suppose sometimes if people are venting about something they just don't think.

But agree - hopefully it's a lesson learnt for him.

[bridget thronton]

You did a good thing defending us

[Krea]

Good for you Danni! :cheer:
The more people who come out and challenge the haters, the better it will be in the long term. :thumbsup:

[Stephanie47]

Once the genie is out of the bottle (or danni) she cannot be put back in the bottle. You're just going to have to roll with the punches. I've run into such comments and have taken people to task without "outing" myself.

[danniUK]

This is likely because he also connects your dressing to some kind of sexual activity.

Hi Genifer
Yeah I get that. I suppose that since that's how it started for a lot of us then a lot of non-dressers might see it from that point of view. They might even "get it" as a sex thing while having no understanding at all about how much more it can feel.

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Standing up for yourself, and indirectly the rest of us, has got to feel great and give you so much more confidence.
Hi Sophia
It did feel good. It's funny, over the years I've never felt like I "belonged" anywhere (except with my wife and children), like I've never really had any kind of "identity" to cling on to.
I know a lot of people get their identity from the sports team that they support, or the hobby that they partake in... or even their job or their sexual identity.
I've never felt any of that - I'm not into sport, my hobbies are just hobbies.
But since I finally admitted to myself last year that my dressing was far more important to me than just the things I used to do in the bedroom when I was younger... It's hard to explain, but I finally feel "this is who I am" and it's given me more a sense of identity than anything else ever has. Is that wierd?
I feel more akin to you girls on this forum than I ever have with any other group of people.
So it totally felt right to stand up for Mike's brother, being "one of us" and all!

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You did a good thing defending us


Good for you Danni! :cheer::

Thanks, ladies!

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I've run into such comments and have taken people to task without "outing" myself.
Hi Stephanie
I think what I've learnt this last year is that what I really want is to come out as much as is possible. There are a limited number of people who it'd make my life a little more difficult if they knew but for everyone else I've just had the feeling for a long time now that "life's too short to not be who you really are around the people you like/love."
Whether I'll actually do this in practice I don't know - but I've certainly made a start!