My crossdressing psychology

[Sabine7]

I would like to ask all of you if you have similar thought about crossdressing, especially when already en femme.
Most of you would say probably that it is a pleasure to be in female clothes and that's it. Me too would say that. However, I am currently quite sure I do because because my personality evolving into femininity simple needs that for living. I used to experience the joy of being a "real" woman after several hours fully dressed as a woman. At such moments I would be able to dissociate from my male version forever. A state of a great happiness and accomplishment.
Another option is that I get satisfaction from seeing my masculinity being totally humiliated. And I like it so much, especially when in favorite outfit of a mature or even aged woman.
The whole thing went already so far that it is my please to fantasize about having a curvy female body (it looks like I desire it for myself) and living a real woman's life including all lurid aspects of it.
I hope I have not confused any of you.
Sabine

[Marketa]

If I get your question right, then it's probably close to the "Would you be happy to wake up as a woman?" thread.

I personally don't have the desire to be a woman in general. Unless I'm fully dressed, because then I wish my appearance wasn't just an illusion but it was my real body, with all the beautiful curves without the need to hide my male parts and not worry about revealing lines of breast belt, because I'd have real breasts.

And personality wise: me and my drab are separated personalities. Probably a result of severe depression and I am simply my mind's coping mechanism.

[Sabine7]

Hi Marketa, you got it right. I can't deny any longer my desire to be a woman and the regret I was not born one. To remedy this, all I can afford is just to dress as a female, "correct" my body with breast forms, wig, etc. I can't move further because of my successful and accomplished family life that I don't want to destroy. It is beyond any logic, it is not rational but just following an internal instinct.

[JulieC]

It is indeed an internal instinct that drives me to wear women's clothes. My wife, as supportive as she is, doesn't understand why I want breast forms. She's fine with me having them and wearing them, but doesn't get why I would want them. It's completing the form, it feels more complete, more responsive to the person inside. I don't have any desire to transition. I wouldn't want to wake up and permanently be a woman. But, I do find it important to crossdress, and to integrate me as femme into me as all of me.

[DianeT]

I love to spend time in my female attire but honestly, at some point, these shoes hurt a bit and watching TV in pajamas has its edge.

[BLUE ORCHID]

If the None CD Men knew How great it is to Transform from Drab to Fem,

They would be amazed at the Joy it Brings,

[GretchenM]

You bring up a really good question that probably has a million answers. I used to be quite a bit like you in that dressing produced a huge shift in my personality and an amazing disconnection from my male-like identity (but not totally). I loved being able to experience all of the sensations when wearing women's clothes, both undergarments and outer garments.

But over the last 14 months something else has happened to change all of that. However, the change has allowed me to have a much more mature connection with my female-like identity. I was diagnosed with recurrent prostate cancer and immediately went on treatment which included a complete wipeout of my testosterone. That has now very thoroughly destroyed a major part of my male like identity, but that has been replaced with a somewhat variable identity that ranges from no sense of identity at all (a eunuch) to a very definite and mature form of a female-like identity that gives me definition to some degree. But the female dressing is rare now and has been replaced by a mixed male and female type of clothes that is not very definite like fully dressing but certainly far beyond completely neutral. It is probably confusing to some people, but that is not a perception that is wrong as I am now a definite blend of male-like and female-like behavior patterns. And I can switch from one end of the range to the other end in seconds depending on the circumstances. It is sort of like being able to play both parts of life's music at the same time. And they never really conflict with each other. In fact they usually complement each other.

This has developed over the last year of testosterone suppression, and I have almost a year more to go before the treatment is finished. Fortunately, I am now cancer free and the rest of the treatment is to hopefully prevent the development of another form of prostate cancer that is a real killer. So far, so good. The remaining question is what will happen in 2026 when I end the testosterone suppression? Sometimes the testosterone doesn't come back. But if it does, what will it do to my current very stable and happy identity? I would consider surgical action to remove what is left of my testes which is not much as they have atrophied to the point of barely being there. They haven't had much to do for the last 14 months so they have atrophied.

It is wonderful to have the masculinity held down to a low level and to have the mild femininity replace that most of the time. I don't see it at all as a humiliation of my masculinity as that is a negative thought. But it is a suppression of that which allows the other side, the female-like part, to rise to the top. I can still call on some aspect of the masculinity, but anything sexual, male-like or female-like, is totally missing as I have no libido of any kind now. It is like having my identity patterns laid bare and see them do their thing in small ways that are hard to tie to either identity. However, my primary identity would need to be called Eunuch. That is sort of like it being non-committal in any way. Not really what I used to deal with or that you are dealing with, but with the high points of that identity life still present. (If you want to learn more about some of the concepts presented in this paragraph, get a copy of "The Gender Mosaic" by Daphna Joel. It is an eye opener of a book when it comes to identity.)

I have to admit though, that my preference is to be on the female-like side with the male-like side suppressed as much as possible. However that identity is internal and provides the guidance for my life now. Outward expression is not a major thing with me. So, I put it this way. The dressing seems to come from the sensing of a somewhat sexual aspect to masculinity and/or femininity that also feeds back into the emotional aspects of identity and how those are expressed outwardly. If you have ever felt the pull of the feminine without the aid of clothing then you know what I am like most of the time. Behaviorally I am pretty feminine - sensitive, empathic, sympathetic, compassionate and a bit emotional at times, but very consistent. Not effeminate, but feminine; big difference. However, that femininity usually exists without the clothes. That said, the clothes just add the effect of pulling it all together to make a more complete, but not totally complete, female-like identity and personality. But dressing is not necessary; it is just a pleasant addition - the cake is good even without icing but icing the cake makes it even better.

The male-like identity is still present but you might say he sits in the background and watches as Gretchen does her thing. But he is always on call if needed as is Gretchen when he is the one on the stage of life. Sometimes they are both on stage at the same time which actually works quite nicely when the circumstances require that.

The main point is that I do not view masculine and feminine as a binary. We all have both and it is best if they work together as a team. One may be emphasized more than the other and sex has a little bit to do with that, but for the most part masculine and feminine GENDERS are complementary even though the proportions of each may vary with the person's sex. The sexual aspects are partly driven by hormones, but the personality is pure brain power an its operation is found in neuroscience. Your gender identity comes from that which is between your ears; not between your legs.

I used to fantasize about being a woman down to the finest points, but that has now been replaced with my current identity which is actually a bit ambiguous because each part can contribute as needed. That said, it has taken years for the elements of this to evolve and I think the main reason that I am this way now is because I don't have any testosterone in my body; the sexual factor has been negated. I do have a normal level of female hormones that males have, but it appears that is not sufficient to trigger identity patterns other than certain behaviors typical of females as I described above but without the outer expression in the form of defining clothing styles. Or at least rarely those outward expressions. I still enjoy getting fully dressed except that sometimes the happy tears mess up my mascara. :sad:

I know this is a complex answer, but maybe it will give you some thoughts about what might be going on inside you. So what is the message? "Dear, follow your heart with all your heart."

[Sabine7]

Hi Gretchen,
thank you for your exhaustive thoughts sharing. I appreciate this. It seems to be that I see and understand the issue similarly.
Whatever is the gender of my mind/brain for sure it is much more feminine than male. I was born and raised to be a boy and because of this I did not doubt my masculinity for a long time. With some exceptions...
Real life, education and job requirements and the need to support my family did not leave enough time to think about all these too much. I continued to live a male life and it took decades to get to the current point when I am questioning my male nature completely.
In a real official life I do keep on presenting my male format to the family, friends and the whole outer world. It is much easier and safe to live this way. Quite comfortable but to be honest I am not very enthusiastic about being a man. Whenever alone the female part of my mind takes precedence but crossdressing seems to be just a symptom and not an independent thing.
Sabine

[Marketa]

Gretchen, you gave ma a topic to think deep about.

Not long time ago I was thinking about a scenario, that if doctors found me something and said I've got 2-3 years left, I decided I'd fully transition for the rest of the life incl. face, breast and bottom surgeries, just to give it a try. Because even if it happened to end up as a mistake, then I wouldn't have to live for long with it.

But if I had to go through procedures, that would destroy my testosterone, my ability to produce it and all the things connected? ... I'll give it a good thinking. Thank you. I love these things I have to give a deep thought to.

[Sabine7]

When alone I used to get swallowed completely by the gravity of femininity almost immediately. The female part of my mind has won the battle long time ago. I desire a female body but I would not decide to go thru the transition especially the bottom surgery does not sounds like an option for me. So, I will stay a girl for myself and a boy for the world.

[DianeT]

I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that there is often a confusion in these forums between wanting to be (actually, look like) a woman for fetish reasons (my case) and genuinely identifying with the other gender. Since the latter seems more acceptable socially (I don't think it should be, they are simply two totally different things), it seems tempting to deny the first and pretend to belong in the second category. When this happens, the concept of "femininity" often gets redefined with a lot of stereotypes about external appearance, mannerisms, personality.

[Sabine7]

Hi Diane,
this is a tricky thing. Years ago, it was a kind of fetish for me, to get aroused. Meanwhile, playing a female role ceased to be a way to reach something else only but it became the goal itself. To be honest, I don't know if this is about my preexisting female mind just being discovered or my desire to be a woman (even if I am not). I feel that I fit much more to femininity than masculinity.

[GretchenM]

Thanks, Sabine, for your kind comments. Of course having zero T is certainly not the same thing as a full transition. But the value I have found is the freedom that not having a hormone regulated identity provides you. I can experiment with different things without concern of actually fitting a particular standard. Of course one does not want to stray too far and present as an alien from another world, but not many crossdressers are compelled to do that.

Think about it. When it comes right down to it, the only reason we have two sexes is for reproductive purposes otherwise the practical value of being either one is, to me, kind of questionable. That said, that reproductive ability is really important no matter what kind of creature you are because without it the only life that would exist is that which produces new copies (and versions if you add in evolutionary processes) are those creatures that make copies more or less by accident by vegetative means. A plant stem breaks off or the mid rib of a leaf contacts soil and produces roots which results in a new copy. But it cannot evolve except by pure accident or vegetative mutation. That's no way to inhabit a world. So reproduction was one of life's first key properties way back 4 billion years ago.

And quite frankly I would not recommend going eunuch as a youngster; only as an old fart that isn't going to do much reproducing anymore anyway. However, in ancient cultures eunuchs were a social class just like males, females, and farmers, or kings and queens. They had a role in society and from what I have read they were not beggars - they served royalty and were usually treated quite well. The customs of your culture decide most of what is proper and improper and culture is constantly changing. But through it all biological variation persists and produces new variations that, if they become common enough, have to be dealt with.

Cross dressing is, in my view, probably one of the oldest variations in human culture. And even if it is not done, the thought of doing it would still occur in the minds and imaginations of some. This leads to a possible conclusion that the behavior is actually heritable otherwise it would have to be such a common thought and perhaps secret behavior that it can persist and transfer from culture to culture. The latter seems to be possible, but that is a shaky explanation using a process that could end pretty easily. Therefore, I prefer to think of it as some kind of rare genetically based behavior that is present in all cultures, whether accepted socially or not. Otherwise it is a pretty difficult behavior to explain.

As Sabine points out we grew up and were raised and indoctrinated into the male way of life that has fundamental characteristics that go back tens of thousands of years. Same for the women who were raised to be good females. The point is that most of us end up following those life lines we were taught as children and never or rarely stray from that straight and narrow path. Yet practically everywhere in the world you will find some who lean toward the opposite life line even though they were brought up to be true to the established expectations their biological sex requires. And some lean a long ways into that other world and find great comfort there. And sometimes that shows up when they are only 1 1/2 to 3 years old when gender identity is starting to gel in our development. That lends weight to the idea that this pattern is maybe not acquired but is the result of some kind of genetic variation that is very faint and difficult to find or perhaps is some kind of heritable predisposition that is passed around in the reproductive process and pops out once in awhile and that does not seem to be a choice but rather an imperative of some degree. Certainly environment plays a big role in the actual translation into behavior, but perhaps that is not the whole story. The fact remains that sex and gender are not binary but form a complex array or continuum where male and female are just the most commonly expressed for purposes of species persistence and not because they are the only possibilities. Nature loves variety and is always popping out variations that seem to be experiments to see if this or that works. Of course it is not likely done with intent - it just happens because Nature is anything but precise in the diversity of configurations. So why not throw in a half cup of gender variance into the massive consistency of the norm? Without variations we would all still be very primitive archeans and bacteria and sex would not even exist, at least here. That would be a travesty, but nobody would know the difference.

So, Sabine, I think your description of your perception of life is right on the money. But you also include in that the fact that variation is a significant part of who you are. I identify with your description 99.99%. The patterns exist and we live it and know quite well it is, at the least, something important in the composition of who we are as individuals. We can live without it but it is a very rough road that is going to require more than a 4x4 to traverse. We often admit it seems to be a strange behavior, but to me, at least, I question whether it is really all that strange in the objective view. Perhaps there are some obscure advantages for males and female to be able to be the other as well to some extent. Maybe that is why Daphna Joel's Gender Mosaic actually exists in the inner workings of our brains?

Our brains are not male and female - there are only brains and each one is unique in so many ways and especially in its gender configuration at any given moment. And furthermore, what is there now can be changed and operate a hair differently a few minutes from now if that need arises. We are "Gender Adaptable" for a reason - it keeps us learning and changing and every so often reproducing. Maybe that is life at its most basic level? Maybe there is more to the saying, "Variety if the spice of life" than meets the eye? Perhaps that is the Nature of Nature.

[Marketa]

Gretchen, as you returned to this thread, I will too.

I was thinking about it on and off for a few days, like I mentioned I will, if I would transition in the case I'd lost the ability to produce testosterone naturally, and my conclusion is this:

If it was due to illness or something similar, then I would not transition. But if I had some ugly accident and lost my "jewels", then I wouldn't see the point to keep being a man and I would fully transition incl. face, breasts and bottom surgery, because there's nothing (mainly family or work) that would repel me from it. Also thanks to vasectomy I won't have children in the future, so that's not an obstacle either.

That's at least my opinion how I see it now. If I'd be in the situation I might see it differently.

Thank you for the interesting topic to think of :)

[Michelle_G]

Sabine, I can identify with what you are feeling. To wake up tomorrow morning as a full and complete woman would be my ultimate dream. I mean like born that way. I often wonder if we get to live another life after we pass on and I ask to please come back as a female.
I doubt I would ever transition through surgery though. I don't feel like there is enough that can be done medically to get rid of my male structure and stature. If I ever ended up alone, I would probably try to get on hrt though.
For now, I'm the one who has to sacrifice. My family didn't ask to be put in a transition situation and I wouldn't put them through that. In the end, we all have to decide what is best for our own situation.

[Alaina R]

When you say seeing your masculinity totally humiliated tells me there is a lot of sexual fantasy involved. I understand that feeling. Meantime, when people say they want to wake up female, very few people think about all the crap associated with an older female body. The reality is very different than our idealized fantasy. But the fantasy is great - just don't forget what it is.

[Sabine7]

Hi Girls,
thank you all for your valuable feedback.
Alaina, Michelle, when saying about humiliating my masculinity the sexual background was involved for sure but my understanding of this is about a subconscious revenge for not being born a woman but forced to grow up as a boy. An older body female or male can be a problem always. Anyway, my desire to be the woman is out of my control and any kind of rational thinking.
When dressed up completely from head to toe as woman I feel accomplished to be a proud member of the female tribe, even if this seems to be an illusion only.
However, I do not intend to go thru any kind of a body transition, neither surgically nor HRT. For me this is an unknown and insecure path without return. I would like to stay with my body integrity even if it is a male body. Even if results had been satisfactory (I doubt this is possible in my case), I would have been rejected by my relatives and friends. My life known so far could be ruined. I am not ready for this. While I desire woman's life and body for myself I don't want to die for it and sacrifice my current life.

Hi Gretchen, hearing about eunuchs always reminds me about the cult of Astarte in the ancient Syria. Many male individuals intentionally or semi-intentionally (drugs could be used to get aroused oneself) used to go thru a self-castration publicly during the goddess festivals. Once castrated and then healed they used to take on female clothes and to join the local goddess temple as her priestesses. They continued to live (if only having managed not to die due to infection or bleeding and to survive ) as women since. I was always terrified by that story but recently I got more understanding and acceptance of this.
I suspect what those people could feel and what kind of motivation they could have. Was that an utter example of gender identity problems in antiquity?
To far extent I do understand them and share their desire, motivation and anxiety.

your Sabine

[GretchenM]

Hi Marketa,

I agree with your thinking, and the only reason I don't move in that direction now with zero T is that I might end up being a woman who dies of prostate cancer. Not exactly the fame I seek. In 10 months my 24 month treatment will end. What happens then is likely to be another new adventure IF the testosterone comes back and rises significantly. Sometimes it doesn't. But it would be a good time to jump over to transition as I am sorta, kinda half way there now and I will have 10 more months of experience in this "half way there" world I have been in and have now adapted to psychologically. By then I will be 80 and I am not sure I will be interested in a new adventure. I know a few do transition at that age, but it is rare and can be medically dangerous.

The nice thing about being in this situation now after a lifetime of bathing in T as a male, is that now I have at least three choices that are equally easy to pursue. I can take advantage of not having T and move on to more direct actions in transition; I can let things go where they may, or I can make the zero T permanent rather easily. Then I can just glide along the same set of tracks to the end. That is not unattractive at all. And quite frankly I have no more desire to be an 80 year old woman than an 80 year old man with no T. My wife is 79 and far into menopause. She is just like me - No Libido whatsoever. So we can really share our situation very compatibly because, when it comes to sexuality, we are practically twins - no desire (but we can cuddle for hours). Much better than the situation where the man still wants sex once in awhile and the woman has zero desire. And she has begun to sort of like my limited female-like behaviors but still have a man in appearance. It is not a bad combination for her (or me). Perhaps it is the best situation of all possibilities?

But for you it is a much more difficult decision. In time zero T is easy to do and your body even shifts toward the girl end, but usually not a lot. I have grown a rather nice pair of little breasts and lost most of my body hair. My overall skin is much softer and more female-like in most places, and my pants stay up much better, even without a belt, because I have accumulated just enough hip and butt fat to serve those purposes. But it is still a long ways from being a fully developed woman (whatever that means). Zero T long enough naturally results in some noticeable feminization of your body (and your mind). All of those changes are nice because they are also more or less half-way to my life long desire to be a girl - PERIOD. Unfortunately, it took two bouts with prostate cancer to produce it and the end of that story has yet to be seen. It is out there, but I don't know what it looks like. So I certainly cannot recommend the route I took to get to the "half-way girl" result. It is too scary, especially when your father died of this cancer. I am cancer free and I have great doctors, but Nature may still have some other agenda for me. Nevertheless, I thoroughly enjoy my half and half state of gender identity. Especially because I was able to find the way to achieve it by adapting to a less than desirable situation. Perhaps it is the meaning of the saying, "If life gives you lemons then make lemonade." It does work.

[CynthiaD]

To me, donning female clothing I like coming home after a hard days work. No thrills, just a sense of relief. A feeling of moving from an incorrect presentation to a correct one.

In male mode, I’m one of the most macho guys you’d ever want to meet. I thoroughly enjoy the male role. But it isn’t correct. Under it all, I’m the kind of person who loves romantic movies, who loves to cry at sad stories, who loves to read about successful women who have succeeded by overcoming terrible odds. I could go on and on. Female mode is correct. I derive great pleasure from being just another ordinary woman.