Crossdressing or Drag?

[Rikkicn]

I just finished reading the forum "are crossdressers closeted homosexuals?"

It was very interesting for me and I 'd like to share my observations about our two communities.

First let me begin by saying up until 4 years ago I knew nothing about the GLBT community. Well maybe a little about the "T". I was a closeted xdressers in a long marriage and never thought of my self as anything other that straight.
I lived and worked and was raised in a white middle class republican world. This was my world so my beliefs were based on all that I learned and absorbed there.
5 years ago, I divorceed my wife, gave up my career and moved to San Francisco. WOW, what an eye opening and awakening experience that was.
I meet a women that had just left a LTR with another woman and we became lovers, partners and are now getting married.
She's was not only self identifies bi-sexual dyke but she's also a professor at a university and her area of expertise is gender and sexuality. With her help and guidance I've studied and learned soooo much.
As a result of being with her I've meet literally hundreds of gay men and lesbians and it's been an amazing discovery time for me.

Here's what I've figured out so far.
1.)There are drag queens that are club performers and there are many that do that type of drag but don't perform.
2.)There are drag queens that are mc's at fund raisers in the community.
3.)There are gay men thay "do" drag at parties.
Drag in all these contexts means over the top glamour to me.
4.)There are hippie type gay men that do drag such as wearing long hippie type skirts and finger nail polish and jewelry
5.)There are lesbians that are drag kings that perform at events and clubs

I don't think any of these gay men that do drag would ever, ever think of themselves as cross dressers. To them drag is something they do and not something they are. To them most cross dressers are straight men. Also, they wouldn't be inclined to visit cross dressing sites or take surveys there.
Where I'm going with this is that if we took a survey of men that wear articles of women's clothing we would get a very different view of their sexuality.
The intentions of doing drag by these various groups of gay men is different and worth knowing more about. Just as in the cding community there are many different intentions.
One thing is clear to me is that there is a hugh divide between our two communities.
Interestingly though, in the lesbian community the divide between lesbian transgenders and the drag kings seems to almost non exsistent.

One thing is clear. We don't know much about each other and we should. The world at large sees us as all pretty much the same.

Love to hear comments

Rikki

[MsJanessa]

I used to post replies to threads like that but got tired of doing so----My basic reaction is what difference does it make if you are gay, bi or straight---so long as you are tolerant of others sexuality.

[Rikkicn]

I used to post replies to threads like that but got tired of doing so----My basic reaction is what difference does it make if you are gay, bi or straight---so long as you are tolerant of others sexuality.

I agree with you totally.
My reason for posting this is that I have the belief that the more we understand each other's communities the greater the possibility of working together and dealing with our common oppression.

Does that make sense?

[Casey Morgan]

I haven't really looked beyond my own backyard in terms of CDing, being transgendered, and drag queens. So I really can't add too much just now. But I think I'm understanding the difference between drag queens and crossdressers.

Drag queens are like the guys who go into the Army with an eye on getting job skills and perhaps money for college. When their enlistment is up each will have his own feelings about leaving the Army but they'll leave and move on to the next phase of their life.

Crossdressers are like the guys who grew up knowing that one day they were going to go into the Army. Nobody had to teach them how to be Army (in a "spiritual" sense), they've been Army as long as they could remember. They may have to leave the Army one day but the Army will never leave them.

Both groups are soldiers. But they're different groups. They don't really get where the other is coming from because it's a different way of being.

Without meaning to offend, it would be interesting to know more about the drag queens. I mean, if they don't feel this need to dress that many of us feel, why do they do it? Interesting indeed.

[alysonatl]

Although I consider myself to be a crossdresser, there are times when I wonder if I could do drag. I've dresseed up in my best black cocktail dress and favorite heels, put on a Carly Simon or some other chanteuse, and put on a show for myself. I want to go on stafe in a glamorous gown, perfect hair and makeup and glittering jewels and be the Lady Day of the moment. Oh my darlings, that would be bliss.

[Rikkicn]

Without meaning to offend, it would be interesting to know more about the drag queens. I mean, if they don't feel this need to dress that many of us feel, why do they do it? Interesting indeed.

No offense at all! Thanks for reading the post and asking a great question.
I need to add to what I wrote before.

I have seen several documentaries about the past and present live's of performing DQ's. One thing that stood out was the high percentage that now condsider them selves trans in one way or another. The indentity of transgendered is very new and before it exsisted the only name close to express how they felt was drag queen. When the term transgendered or transsexual came about many of them said " Hey, that's me".

When I read, on this forum, some of the femme things we did as young children it matches the same things I hear about the early lives of DQ's. Except for maybe standing on the coffee table at age 6, wearing one of your mother's gowns and belting out a Barbara Striesand song!

I think that "camp" has always been an important part of the gay community. Remeber the movie"Cabaret"?
Camp is seen as an act of political resistance to social norms, gender norms and it has also been used as entertainment to help build community.

[Rikkicn]

Although I consider myself to be a crossdresser, there are times when I wonder if I could do drag. I've dresseed up in my best black cocktail dress and favorite heels, put on a Carly Simon or some other chanteuse, and put on a show for myself. I want to go on stafe in a glamorous gown, perfect hair and makeup and glittering jewels and be the Lady Day of the moment. Oh my darlings, that would be bliss.

Come to San Francisco sweet heart! With flowers in your hair along with a rhinstone tiera. There's lots of room and space for you to do just that. Google "trannyshack" It's every Tuesday night and everyone's welcome.

Rikki

[Brianna Lovely]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm a gay man that likes to dress. I like to dress as a form of self expression and yes, I love men!
Hugs,
Brianna

[Rikkicn]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm a gay man that likes to dress. I like to dress as a form of self expression and yes, I love men!
Hugs,
Brianna
You may in the minority, I'm not sure. I haven't met many gay men that crossdressed in the ways we do on the forum. I know there's a web sire for bears in lingerie and I found that interesting.
The few gay men crossdressers that I met they have told me that they havn't told there gay friends because they woldn't accpet him.
I think it's all very, very interesting
Do you agree with any of the other things I've said or am I waay off base?
thanks for responding
Rikki

[Samantha?]

Hi. Well, first off, I agree with the tolerance issue. That's the first step: tolerance towards everyone. Secondly, I have to say that "Cabaret" is a great film, a great musical, one of the best of all time. There's no bones or lobsters about it. Watch it again, it has a lot to say, and is actually very serious. (heehee...I love movies :) ! ). Now, on topic...
I believe that most male crossdressers are straight (I am) because there's a very feminine part of us that, although we know we are straight, needs to get out in one way or another. Crossdressing is a wonderful and important way. For many gay men, being openly gay is the big proclimation, the part of them that needs to get out...so if they dress, it's for fun, not so much to represent a part of themselves that's trying to get out. That part already is out.
Of course, this is all very generalized, so if this doesn't apply to you, that'll be because, well, it doesn't. Anyway, good writing everyone. :)
Talk to you all soon!

-samantha

[KathrynW]

the possibility of working together and dealing with our common oppression.
oppression: subjugation. The act of subjugating by cruelty; "the tyrant's oppression of the people"

Oppression? Oh Lord...
No offense, but... sorry, I don't see the need for the drama here.
Rikki, I really doubt that your life is anything similar to the 1964 Mississippi Civil Rights Movement. ;)

[Rikkicn]

oppression: subjugation. The act of subjugating by cruelty; "the tyrant's oppression of the people"

Oppression? Oh Lord...
No offense, but... sorry, I don't see the need for the drama here.
Rikki, I really doubt that your life is anything similar to the 1964 Mississippi Civil Rights Movement. ;)
Are you aware that there is an average of one transgendered person murdered every month?
There are all kinds and degress of oppression don't you agree? Perhaps you could suggest another word that would be more indicative of our circumstances.
thanks for your comments
Rikki

[elizabeth nicole]

Thank you for giving us the correct definition of oppressed. i sure as hell dont feel oppressed.Where is all this militancy coming from,we are a bunch of crossdressers we wear ladies clothes.What have we got to be up in arms about.We are in one of the greatest countrys in the world and can express our selves in our own homes or even go out if we want.We are not being forced to do it or forced not to do it. It is clearly our own choice and we have no reason to be getting all upset about how someone else feels about us, it does not matter what our sexual view point is either we still are men wearing womens clothing and loving it.

[KathrynW]

Are you aware that there is an average of one transgendered person murdered every month?
There are all kinds and degress of oppression don't you agree? Perhaps you could suggest another word that would be more indicative of our circumstances.thanks for your comments
Rikki
Rikki - One TG person out of how many murdered that aren't TG? geez...
It's not a happy thought, but...it's a statistic, just like any other statistic. I don't have another word to suggest. I just don't think it's necessary to over-dramatize things. fer cryin out loud...you're living in SF, which has gotta be one of the most TG friendly places on earth. Why all the angst? :straightface:

[Rikkicn]

There are tg men and women beaten everyday of the year for being themselves.
There are many, many instances of tg people being denied health care. See the movie called "Southern Comfort"
There are TG people being denied health insurance.
There are laws keeping us from using public restrooms in most states.
The TG jobless rate in the Bay Area is 75%.
TG people are turned down by landlord's constantly.
In some states it is against the law to wear clothing of the opposite sex.
Church's and religious organization's routinely kick us out, won't let us join or campaign against us.
This list can go on.

Perhaps we bring all this upon us ourselves and we should know better. We should stay home, stay inside and keep quiet and behave like the world wants us to behave.

Kathryn, the angst is about all my TG brothers and sisters that don't live here but live in places where this is not tolerated. But here, even in in San Francisco we still have problems. The police have been particulary brutal towards TG people and we're doing everything we can to stop it. Did you read that there is 75% TG unemployment rate here?
SF is agreat place, one of he best, but there are still problems for those of us that choose to live our lives in the open.

[Toyah]

Hmmm seems to be several questions here all mixed up and darned if I know what is really wanted but here goes.
Crossdressing is not predominantly gay
TGs those living full time are not really CDs and have their own problems that do not usually happen to CDs so how can we comment
So drag queens are gay so what, some are some are not your point has no real relevance
What has sexual orientation got to do with anything that happens here
I am confused !!!!!!

[Rikkicn]

Hmmm seems to be several questions here all mixed up and darned if I know what is really wanted but here goes.
Crossdressing is not predominantly gay
TGs those living full time are not really CDs and have their own problems that do not usually happen to CDs so how can we comment
So drag queens are gay so what, some are some are not your point has no real relevance
What has sexual orientation got to do with anything that happens here
I am confused !!!!!!

Perhaps your right.
Cd's have nothing in common with drag queens, TG's have a differnt set of problems than cross dressers. Drag queens arn't cross dressers or TG.
I guess the only thing we have in common is that we're all male born and we like to wear women's clothing for one reason or another.

[Jillian310]

Uh, slow down a little girls. My take is a bit different. I don't see the issue as crossdressers that are gay, straight, transgendered, bi, etc.

My take is there are so called straight males and females that dress in the opposite sex clothing, and there are gay males and females that dress in the opposite sex clothing, there are bi sexual males and females that dress in the opposite sex clothing, and there are those that perform in the opposite sex clothing, etc. In other words, the dressing is not the primary driving force, it is an affect embraced by deeper involuntary forces. Moreover, to discuss these issues, whatever your perception may be, can hardly be thought to be confrontational. This is a large tent that can tolerate many viewpoints. And thank goodness for that!