Why not?

[Bea_]

I'm a seventy year old, long haired, bearded dude who would present in an openly hybrid/freestyle/androgynous manner pretty much all the time if it wouldn't cause the drama that I know it would cause in my small world. I have no gender dysphoria and my motivations are mostly aesthetic with some tactile inspiration.

What I'm wondering is why men don't have the freedom to express this part of themselves and my own personal answer is that it's because women do not want to be intimately associated with guys like me. And guys don't want to be associated with a guy like me because of the damage it might do to his reputation. I know that's not universal, but it is pretty much fact in my world.

So, why do men not feel free to wear what they want?

[CarlaWestin]

Bea.
I'm exactly like you. I just conceal/enhance it under the beautifully feminine cloak of crossdressing.
And I'm loving it!

[JohnH]

So why do men not feel free to wear what they want?

Well meaning parents tell their boys to "Man up", "Boys don't wear that", and "Boys don't do that". I regard that as a form of child abuse. Mercifully, I was spared those sayings.
Although I present like a woman with my dresses, lipstick, nail polish, and hair beyond my shoulders, I don't pretend to be a woman as I speak with my deep masculine voice. And my usual Sunday morning presentation also includes heels and makeup.



And guys don't want to be associated with a guy like me because of the damage it might do to his reputation. I know that's not universal, but it is pretty much fact in my world.

I joined my church's men's fellowship as I was invited.

I have NEVER been harrased in the past 10 years.

John

[Bea_]

John, I've seen your posts over the last several years and I find myself having a lot in common with the things you write. I would describe myself as presenting more androgynous/freestyle than 'like a woman'. I basically just borrow the parts that fit my idea of who I am.

I admire that you aren't so much bothered by conventions and you seem to be transparent in who you are.



Bea.
I'm exactly like you. I just conceal/enhance it under the beautifully feminine cloak of crossdressing.
And I'm loving it!

I'd say the big difference is that I'm not inclined to conceal it in a 'woman' persona but rather to claim the things that fit my male persona. I could never pass, but maybe could disguise my identity if I tried to 'conceal' but it's never been a desire on my part. I do think a disguise might be easier in a lot of ways but just not me...

[docrobbysherry]

I've travelled a lot, Bea. Back in the 70's I realized how inhibited and repressed American men and women were compared to Europeans! I seriously dated a Ukraine and Russian over there about 20 years ago. Both women were like lions compared to the timid US women I've dated. I wasn't man enuff for either of them!:sad:

And, the norms in America have become even MORE Puritanical and restrictive here in recent years!:doh:

[char GG]

I have said numerous times that I work at a concert venue. I see men dress in exactly the hybrid, androgynous manner that you describe, almost every time that I work.

They do have the freedom to dress as they wish. The only thing stopping them is their own selves.

[AmyJordan]

Hi Bea

My wife would certainly agree with you, when I used to complain about dressing for her she wouldn't always say 'why can't men wear dresses' there are women like my wife but as you all know they are very rare it seems.

As for men I have to say I have not contacted my old buddies for some time, mostly out of embaressment to be seen as I am now but I really don't think they would understand how my life has changed to this extent I think it would be extremely awkward, even in male mode I present to many learned feminine mannerisms to pull off a convincing macho image.

Society is very unfair.

Amy x

[Bea_]

I have said numerous times that I work at a concert venue. I see men dress in exactly the hybrid, androgynous manner that you describe, almost every time that I work.

They do have the freedom to dress as they wish. The only thing stopping them is their own selves.

I have read your comments and know that in certain places that is a reality. My small world does not share that reality. It's also generational. My generation broke a lot of barriers and the new generation is breaking new barriers.

I appreciate you pointing this out on a regular basis. It is encouraging.

My wife and her need to protect her own self image is a major barrier. I am sympathetic. I've always been open to change and experimentation while she has always been more traditional.

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Amy, Your situation is one of the most interesting on the forum. There are parts I envy.

[Di]

Men do have the freedom …..a few of us GGs have said this . I have family in West Virginia and mid West and not big city’s
I can only guess the reason is the reluctance is with each man. Scared of being judged .
Especially Gen X they are really exercise their freedom in my experience.

ADD
With younger generation being more expressive and free I hope all this goes away.
None of you are doing anything wrong….I hate you act like you are.
So I do see hope with the future.

[Charlotte Sparkle]

Interesting post Bea.

I’m in my early fifties and I’m growing my hair out, I want to have it long and styled in a feminine way. Do I feel free to wear my hair like that? You bet I do, I want the freedom to do as I please with my own hair.

[JocelynJames]

It?s not that we?re not allowed. It?s all society constraints of what is normal. How does that saying go , ?You only live twice. Once when you are born, and once when you realize you only have one life?. if we could live like a horse with blinders on to not see the negativity towards crossdressing, we?d probably be better off.

[Heather76]

Bea, I agree with so much of what you've posted here. At 80 years old, trust me when I say my world of friends most likely would not accept Heather into their world. Also, my wife is much like your wife in that her only hard line is no family and no friends shall learn of my cross dressing. She would surely die of embarrassment a thousand times over if I came out to them.

[Marketa]

I think it's cultural thing originating probably from our Christian tradition, because when you look into history of ancient Greece and Rome, you'll find out that it wasn't separated as much. Togas and basic working clothes were pretty similar for men and women and majority of people were enjoying bisexual relationships openly without shame (not the actual acts, but that they like whom they like).
But with changes in religion and society there came rules, that are deeply engraved in our western culture to this day.
Look at Thailand, were ladyboys (I don't recall their word for them) are seen as something pure or divine or something like that and not as something to be ashamed of.

[Maid_Marion]

I wore skorts all summer this year on the golf course, both on a municipal course and an exclusive country club.
It is a great place to talk about stuff like this and get people's honest opinions, knowing that you will be sharing the same space for a long time.

Marion

[Traci H]

I laugh at those that say we CD ers have the ability to dress as we please. Sure, if we wish to give up our entire world as we have built our lives. My kids and grandkids may or may not alter their interactions with me. Don?t know and can?t unring that bell. But while my wife considers herself a free thinking feminist, there is no place for deviation from societies norms as she see them. She can wear any men?s clothes but gives me crap about even pink men?s tee shirts! I want to pierce my ears, dye my hair a color and paint my toenails. NO Way! Men can do whatever they want? Sure at great risk to everything!!!

Bea, I love your determination to express yourself. Go for it!

[Bea_]

I want to pierce my ears, dye my hair a color and paint my toenails. NO Way! Men can do whatever they want? Sure at great risk to everything!!!

Bea, I love your determination to express yourself. Go for it!

Life situations have limited my wife?s influence over the years. I had my ears pierced for my 67th birthday and wear 3/4? sterling hoops everyday. My wife nearly cried when told her I wanted my ears pierced. After the fact, and after she realized that people didn?t react, she told me they were sexy.

I don?t show them in public but my toenails are neon bubblegum pink at this moment. I wear women?s skinny jeans to run errands and have started putting my hair up in a clip instead of a ponytail.

I don?t look anything like a woman but definitely not typical male either. I haven?t been ostracized but I definitely throttle what I would wear if it felt safe,, in the social sense.

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Men do have the freedom …..a few of us GGs have said this . I have family in West Virginia and mid West and not big city’s
I can only guess the reason is the reluctance is with each man. Scared of being judged .
Especially Gen X they are really exercise their freedom in my experience.

I?m not so concerned about the judgment of strangers but there would definitely be a social cost in my case. I?ve been slowly revealing small cues over the last few years

[kimmy p]

I am a Licensed Massage Therapist.... My preferred clothing preferences would hurt my career in this repressed and conservative part of Indiana.

[Bea_]

Interesting post Bea.

I?m in my early fifties and I?m growing my hair out, I want to have it long and styled in a feminine way. Do I feel free to wear my hair like that? You bet I do, I want the freedom to do as I please with my own hair.

I waited until after my daughter's wedding in 2006 to start letting my hair grow out. I got a bit of blowback from family members and certain coworkers. The truth is that I went through about a year or year-and-a-half of ugly before it got long enough for a pony tail. It wasn't particularly feminine and I wasn't doing feminine at all in those days. Think old hippie or biker (I'm not a biker). My hair has been to my waist but I tend to keep it about 6-7 inches below my shoulders. It's totally white and slightly thinned.

I only did ponytails for years but finally left it down and wild to wear to church one Sunday. I had two guys (both bald), separately, tell me the same exact words... "Your hair is glorious". Still not femme, but a lot of women would love to have it. Several guys have expressed a bit of jealousy. That's not to brag but to say that we might not realize how many people would love to have the courage to just own "it", whatever it is. I know I've tended to stare when I've seen cd'ers or androgynous style in the wild and it might have been seen as disapproving. It wasn't...

the closest I've come to doing a feminine style is to wear a large hair clip to keep it up. I totally agree with the freedom to do as you please.

===

Marion, I've been following your posts for years and am encouraged that you've seemed to have felt the freedom to express yourself all along. There might be a place where I could feel that kind of freedom, but I'd have to move in totally separate social circles from the ones I have now.

===

kimmy, I'm becoming curious about how much would be gained and how much would be lost. I do see a HUGE risk.

[docrobbysherry]

I would like to point out how fortunate u r, Bea. Binary dressers like me get nothing out of dressing partially fem. Over and above that, I get zero joy dressing to blend. So, going out dressed in my preferred style means I'm the elephant in the room among the muggles everywhere I go!:thumbsdn:

Then, there's your hair. I began losing my hair in my 30's!:doh:

[Jodi79]

i ask that question all the time! I too wish we had that freedom I am much like you. I present male when I'm dressed and I'm just a dude that likes the style fit and colors that dresses skirts and blouses offer. I see a lot of women that portray in very masculine ways including the way they dress and no one is even remotely bothered by it. But a male that exhibits feminine characteristics is gasped at. I too, if i dressed openly would cause great deal of chaos in my world too. Not to long ago i did some dumb things that outed myself to wrong people that erupted that chaos. Caused a great deal of shame to my wife, actually lost my job (which i knew would happen if discovered and am not mad about it nor hold hard feelings) My wife totally hates it but is gracious enough to allow it for moments at a time in the house. Even occsssionaly in public while shopping out of town (though i have to shop in drab or if girl clothes aren't obvious)


I'm bald and when i have opportunity to go out without wifes knowlede - I'm not in a wig. Don't wear makeup. My big ole feet have to wear men's shoes (looks awful while wearing a pretty dress) I just go out and own it. With that bring said i an rarely in a crowd. Only pop into store front shops when hardly anyone is there. Walk around walking trails with very few people. All that to say - I wish i could dress that way daily wherever i went but that will never be the case. Even if it was accepted in public it will never be accepted in my house and in my small circle.

[kimdl93]

Your personal answer is on target. I know from personal experience that by presenting as a female, I destroyed the way my ex viewed me as a person. She said she could never see me the same way again.

[Stephanie47]

I think a lot of it is the potential negativity for not blending into the herd. Reminds me of zebras. When zebras are together in the wild the vertical pattern has them blending so the individual zebra does not stand out to a preying lion. We tend to be social creatures. Yes, women may think a tastefully attired guy in women's clothing is cute but it becomes NIMBY: Not In My Backyard. Social isolation can flow from expressing oneself. For the wife, does it become, "What's wrong with her? Why doesn't she dump that crossdressing husband?" Or, "Poor dear, she's married to a cross dresser."

Let's not forget an employer may discharge/fired a man for no cause in many states. There goes your livelihood.

Men seem to think socializing with a gay man or a transwoman somehow rubs off some of their masculinity.

[DianeT]

I have no idea what your work or social environment is, so just my own mileage here. I don't care about going out presenting as a woman because there is no incentive for me in it, as it's not me, just a fantasy. If I ever go out in female clothes it will probably be as a bearded man with a men's top and a women's long skirt, my usual high top shoes, and in the winter a legging or very thick pantyhose. I've been thinking a few times what would happen if I headed to work in that outfit. Well, probably nothing. Nothing in the street, or at worst some looks and chuckles. And probably nothing at all at work.

[Bea_]

Not to long ago i did some dumb things that outed myself to wrong people that erupted that chaos. Caused a great deal of shame to my wife, actually lost my job (which i knew would happen if discovered and am not mad about it nor hold hard feelings) My wife totally hates it but is gracious enough to allow it for moments at a time in the house. Even occsssionaly in public while shopping out of town (though i have to shop in drab or if girl clothes aren't obvious)

That particular story shows that the fears and warranted. Some people socialize and work where it is not a problem, but the risk of broken relationships, rejection and total disrespect is real..

I am glad your wife tolerates who you are.

I lived in the fringes my whole life, even though I didn't start dressing until my mid-fifties. I look back and my sense is that I was invisible. Growing my hair out made me stand out and I was no longer invisible, even if certain people would make comments about it. At that point I didn't care. That's how it's becoming with my slowly evolving public presentation.

[SaraLin]

I can only speak for myself about why I don't feel free.
Here goes:

In short, it mostly boils down to one simple word - fear.

Fear of losing my job
(I'm retired now, so that one is gone)

Fear of losing my wife
She has very definite limits to what she'll tolerate.

Fear of losing friends or family.
This one seems to be largely a false fear, since the few people I really cared about enough to tell, all said they're OK with it.

Fear of losing health or life.
Board rules limit what I can say about this, but there is a certain segment of people who feel entitled to attack "non-muggles."

Fear of "not fitting in"
I'm something of an acceptance junkie. I don't want to stand out. I don't want people pointing, laughing, or making snarky comments. I just want to blend seamlessly into the crowd and not attract notice. The problem is that I'm only able to do that when I'm dressed as a man. So - that's what I do in public.

I could probably think of other fears (such as fear of causing distress in others), but I'll stop here.


But then I beat myself up for not having the nerve to just be myself.
Talk about painting myself into a corner!

[Rochal Tukque]

Well really WHY NOT! This question is the truly the basest of our being and is something that everyone one on this site has had to answer or ask themselves. WHY NOT? Why can?t I dress the way I want too? I?ll stick to what?s on my plate. I don?t particularly like the confines of what society seems to feel that is the order of things. Especially the CINO?s Christians in name only. Seems the teachings of the one they follow are long forgotten. Anyway like Bea I?m an androgynous dresser, what I?m comfortable in. To me has become a game of cat and mouse. Pushing the edge of safety and blending in for my own freedom. There?s a 100 reasons for Why Don?t and only one for WHY NOT I?m not going to live out a miserable existence to appease someone?s warped sense of mythological, outdated, unjustified order. They don?t for me.
Hugs Rochal

[OrdinaryAverageGuy]

I've complained many time, both on here and to my wife, that while society will allow women to wear pretty much anything they want, men are constricted to certain norms. Yeah, we can wear colorful shirts, but nothing with spaghetti straps, nothing too scoopy, no skirts or dresses, no leggings or hose, only certain sandals, shorts can't be too short, etc.

I know there are a few on here ignoring those boundaries but for many of us there would be social consequences if we were to join in.

[Maria 60]

Where to begin. I have stated to you many times that I applaud your confidence and courage and respect your "I want to do what I want and don't care what anyone thinks" attitude. Believe it or not I'm seeing more and more men just wearing skirts and not trying to look like women. Do they get weird looks, probably but the men I seen I could see they just don't care and own the situation. That's the difference, you have to believe what your doing is what you want and don't care.
I went to a function and a man next to me took off his suit jacket and tie. He was wearing a pearl necklace and what looked like a under shirt with lace on top, almost like a camisole. When he left the table everyone at the table made a comment but at the end of the day he pretty much presented himself the way he wanted and didn't care what others thought. He didn't look at us when he took his jacket off to see our reaction and I didn't notice any signs of him hiding it and him and his wife just acted normal. That's what I'm talking about, the freedom to do what you want. That's what I want, I want to go into a shoe store and try on male shoes showing my pantyhose feet, or go try on a suit and jacket and my bra is showing under my shirt. Not the thing of presenting as a women but to wear what makes me feel good and what I enjoy wearing. Not trying to make any statement, just wearing what makes me feel happy. Again I applaud you for what I believe you are doing what I would love to get the confidence and courage and not care about what others think. Cheers

[Amelie]

This is not an insult but the reason most guys can't dress the way they want is cause they are old.

Look at the young kids in college. Quite a few can dress any way they want. They have this freedom the older people want.

What I am trying to say is most cds who want to go out dressed do so at an older age. They want this freedom after they made most their life's decisions. They get a nice job, build up friendships, get married, have 2.5 children and move to the suburbs. After quite a few years they now want the freedom to dress the way they want. This rocks the boat.

I am not perfect, not by a long shot. But I started to dress the way I wanted from my teen years. I made friends with people that knew how I dressed. I got work where I wasn't stigmatized for who I was. I never married, never had kids. Maybe the one part that was rough was with the family. It upset mom and dad, the rest of the family I didn't care.

I just think if one builds up a certain life style, it's rough to make a drastic change in life like wanting to wear women's clothes. It's not the wearing of clothes that's tough but it's the change that makes things tough.

[Rochal Tukque]

Can?t dress cause I?m OLD. Ha ha I?m 70 and this has been the best time in my life to dress. Quite frankly I?m better dressed than most the women in town wearing their shabby tee shirts and baggy sweatpants. Every thing I wear has a purpose. Born intersexed I have boobs and they bounce, don?t particularly like the nipples rubbing the shirt especially when it?s cold. So I live in shelf bra camis. I don?t have a banana to hide so tights and leggings are very comfortable. Especially the high waisted compression yoga tights that keeps the lower six collapsed vertebrae?s in my back from killing me. If I wore a pair of hard waisted jeans riding on good old L3 I can kiss off walking in about an hour. Thank GOD for girl clothes. Since I?m setting in the middle of the fence I?m just now really enjoying life dressing there. Wasted too many years hiding in the so-call society order of things. Besides OLD crossdressers do it with class the kids are still learning. LOL
Hugs Rochal