Older generations

[heathr1]

Just wondering what your grandparents would have thought about crossdressing.

I remember my grandmother, when she was about 85 saying she saw a crossdresser in town and thought they needed whipping!

I kept my mouth shut.

[Joy Carter]

It's an abomination my great aunt would have sead but she subscibed to the notion that children should be seen and not heard I was over eighteen before she ever spoke directly to me.

[Karren H]

Whipping!!! Myabe she was into something kinky that you didn't know about!!! hehehe

Love Karren

[Jodi Lynn]

My mother-in-law is 87 and she has seen me as Jodi many times, has never said a word about it to me or my wife. But then again her mind isn't all there anymore so she most likely doesn't know it is me.

[KerriAnn]

My parents have only ever expressed their disgust and disdain. I never really got to know my grandparents.

[Helen MC]

My paternal grandparents both died when I was a toddler so I don't remember them. My maternal grandfather also died when I was about 5 and I vaguely recall him. My mother's mother, "Nana" as Anne and I called her lived on till I was 16. She was a kindly old lady and I think would have been at ease with my Cross-Dressing as I remember her disagreeing with my father when Homosexuality was legalised in the UK in the late 1960s a year or so before she died. He was and still is a Homophobic Bigot, but Nana felt that if men were born that way then why should they be punished by the Law? So if I had come out to her I feel she would have been sympathetic and kept my secret. For the record she wore the old style Directoire Knickers with legs that came down to just above her knees. These do nothing for me. I did try on a pair of these but they didn't and don't arouse me as full briefs do.

[RenaCD]

Thats the second time today I've used the word Nana on this Today scary.
Anyway my Nana, dad's mom was the only one in the world, up until Sage this past December that ever knew about my dressing, she caught me around the age of 10-12 and made promise never to ever do it again and told how very wrong it was, and she won't tell on me, but no More I was told. That was 40 some odd years ago, she has been dead about 15 years now and in the end I was her primary care giver, but she never revealed our secret and I never stopped dressing.

[JMO2]

Mentioned it to my parents when I was growing up. Mentioned it again when I was married...(my wifes idea at the time).
My mothers comment is "I don't understand"
My dads comment was "We ought to take him out behind the barn and beat some sence into him."
He never did and I think he was himself. He never wore cotton briefs only the satin and silk ones....hmmmm......
They are both gone now and I wonder quite often what would have happened if I had just kept that skirt on that I tried on and showed my mom how it looked on me, if things wouldn't have been different now........

[Siobhan Marie]

Told my parents that I wear panties 24/7 and sleep in nighties and they don't want to know anymore, down to them, its my life not theirs.

Hugs Anna x

[Helen MC]

I never told my Mum, she has gone now. I think she would have been at ease but may have felt it her duty to tell the arch bigot my butch father who would have reacted very nastily indeed. Whilst he is now in no position to do me any harm either physically or otherwise no good woud come of my telling him now about my crossdressing, I will leave him in peace to die in ignorance. My sister Anne, may have guessed or even have known all along , but she has never asked me nor said directly and I have never told her although she is a very liberal person and would most likely be sympathetic. Some doors are better left locked, some genies left in their bottles.

[Julie Avery]

Rena, what a fine and tragic recollection.:thumbsup:

As to the original question, my one grandfather had been divorced during the 1920's. There was quite a social stigma attached to divorce back then, and he and his second wife - my grandmother - started off as what were regarded as "freethinkers".

While he was alive, (till 1972), I'm quite sure he never could have accepted my crossdressing. But had he lived another 34 years and compared his experience to mine, who knows? Now my grandmother, she might just have accepted it, late in life.

[Toni]

My granny was 87 when she died and with hindsight I wish I had told her cos I'm sure she would have been o/k with it, as I really loved the cantankerous old sod. My mother hated me for it.

[barbaracd]

It still doesn't matter to any generation. There are those who will never accept us for who we are. It's a shame that society has placed so many labels and assume they know what is right. THEY DON'T and nerver will.I like who I am .

[Aynthem]

I wonder though how crossdressing was done in previous generations.

I mean I know that in Les Miserable Victor Hugo tells that Eponine got her disguise of boys attaire to slip into the barracade from a boy who wanted to dress "like a girl for a while."

During World War II many all male shows where done with guys in drag, although obviously done for laughs. However, in James Cavelle's book King Rat about a Japanese prison camp there is one solider who is brainwashed into being a girl by the cast of the shows.

And we all know (I think) that Elizabethian actors were all male. So Juliete was a boy.

So it makes one wonder, how it was done way back when. Obviously more in the closet, but not always. The Governor of New Jersey colony, had his portrait done in a dress, becasue he said he was the queen's representative. People apparently looked the other way if the person was powerful enough I guess.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

So it makes one wonder, how it was done way back when. Obviously more in the closet, but not always. The Governor of New Jersey colony, had his portrait done in a dress, becasue he said he was the queen's representative. People apparently looked the other way if the person was powerful enough I guess.

If you're really curious, the Bullough's "Cross-dressing, Sex and Gender" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812214315/sr=8-1/qid=1145853280/ref=sr_1_1/103-8408314-7928637?%5Fencoding=UTF8) looks crossdressing/transsexualism throughout Western history (as well as a chapter looking at crossdressing/transsexualism in non-Western cultures). It's a bit on the academic side -- Vern Bullough is a social historian -- but pretty readable and it's got some interesting facts. For example, did you know that Joan of Arc was actually burned for her crossdressing rather than heresy? It's also got an interesting look at the "medicalization" of crossdressing/transexualism that occured in the 20th century.

Anyway, the short answer is that known historical cases of MTF crossdressing (outside of "acceptable" contexts, like the theater, religious ceremonies, etc) were pretty uncommon and usually involved men powerful enough to weather the resulting social fallout. OTOH, FTMs were not uncommon and usually tacitly accepted because it was considered "natural" that women might want the greater freedom and opportunities that men had.

MTFs CDs/TSs in history probably did exist (since trans-folk seem to exist in a variety of cultures throughout history) but probably found it extremely difficult to act on their feelings. Both because of poverty -- during the Middle Ages, peasants often only had one set of clothes. The Bulloughs comment about the ingenuity FTMs used to obtain male clothing, but they probably had an easier time of it, since women's family-support role meant obtaining male clothes for a "husband" probably aroused less suspicion.

<edit>
I forgot the most obvious reason why historically there were few known MTFs -- traditionally women were economically dependent on some other male (husband, father, brother, etc.). The only "independent" women where those few with enough wealth to get away with it. So while FTMs could make an living while being seen by others as "men," the reverse wasn't true for MTFs.
</edit>

Also, up until the Industrial Revolution, the vast majority of people lived in small villages, where needless it would be hard to crossdress without drawing attention. And in fact, groups of MTFs begin to surfacing in the big cities, where there was much greater anonymity. The "Molly clubs" in the 18th century London are one of the best examples.

While the Mollys are often seen as the first self-identified homosexuals, it's not quite that simple since "sodomy" at the time included a lot of other things besides homosexual sex and consequently being a "sodomite" didn't neccessary being homosexual in today's sense of the world. And the Mollys did seem to include some hetrosexual and bisexual crossdressers and TGs/TSs. OTOH, it's probable that trans-folks and homosexuals moved in the same circles, since that tends to be true in non-Western cultures. In fact crossdressers in non-Western cultures tend to be homosexual, but there's questions about whether that's more because that's what they're "expected" to be. But it's actually only in Western Anglo-American culture where hetrosexual and homosexual crossdressers are strictly separated and that's a result of both specific social stigmas against homosexuality --- especially the impact of Freudianism, which coincided with the "medicalization" of trans-ness -- and the result efforts by crossdressing groups -- specific Virginia Prince and Tri-Ess -- to disassociated themselves from homosexuals in an effort to make crossdressing more socially acceptable.

Incidently, I suspect the number of "latent" CDs who actually act on their urge probably has increased in the Internet era both because it's enable people to realize there are others like them, and because online shopping makes it much easier to acquire women's clothing.

[Melissa73]

this really subject touched me, as i can recall overhearing my grandparents talking one day about a day time talk show. It had 2 gay guys or something like that. they joked about who was the "woman" and "man" in the relationship. I sat just listening, not able to voice my thoughts.......and thinking, just how closed minded some can be. If they only knew of me, and that i dress like a girl, i wonder what they would have thought??????

[sarahjan]

As a 50 year old do I count as the older generation?

I know 20 year olds that think crossdressers and gays should be hung but I know 60 year olds you are what you are.

I don't think age is the issue.

I often wonder about some of these people who are anti-crossdressers or what ever what are they trying to hide. Are they closet crossdressers tryng to prove to their mates that their not.

[Colleen Merryweather]

I've seen photographs of my grandfather dressed in female clothing for Halloween. I wonder if he was a closeted cross dresser? Or, if Grandma knew and wanted to keep it secret from the kids?

[Teresa Amina]

I remember my Grandfather once going on a tirade against hippies saying that if the guys were going wear their hair long they should wear a bra and panties too! There I was with short hair, but into bras and panties. Needless to say I kept it hidden from grandpa!

Once at a Garage Sale I was going through some old photographs and came across one of a (very obvious) man in a dress. Looked like about 1910 from the clothes. He looked like he was very comfortable and happy to have his pic taken outside in the daylight. We've always been around I think.:D

[miss_sarah]

I'm not quite sure about my grandparents (and I lost a gma recently :( ). Religion - er, more to the point Christianity, is a HUGE part of their lives, and I often get the "I sure wish you'd find a nice home church" from them :rolleyes: So from here I can only make really vague assumptions of them, based on religious beliefs. My mother has suggested, however, that she and my sister be the ONLY ones to EVER be told. My mother, a baby boomer. I only came out to her a few weeks ago, and her initial response was "yes, that certainly DOES clear up some things from the past..." (aka my getting *caught* on a few occasions) and "You don't go out like this right? Just at home?" Er....... "Because you know I've always said what you do in your own home is your own business..."

So there's mom's take. As long as you hide your freakishness from the rest of the world it's ok. :rolleyes: :mad: Had I been on the ball that day I would have challenged her a little. Is it ok to be gay only in your home? Is it ok to be black/asian/whatever only in your own home? (we're from small town hicksville which has been 99.9% caucasion for AGES, the only reason I mention race is because to them, any non-white race is still a pretty alien concept.) That's to say, being something outside of the norm/majority can only be expressed inside 4 walls? Sadly, this topic will NEVER be spoken of again, unless I bring it up. And while I'd really wish I could educate her a little and maybe broaden her views and gain a little more support and understanding... I dunno... Our conversation, short as it was, gave me the impression that she's understanding only the crossdressing aspect of the situation, as a hobby, not as a lifestyle/genetic/just how I am thing. Hopefully with time! :)

Ok, that could have been a thread all its own LOL