What do you think is a Transsexual? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Tamara Croft

04-23-2006, 04:50 PM

I've read so much on the internet in the last few days, to try and educate myself about Transsexuals. I have yet to find any website that concurs with another website. So, I'm still confused to say the least. I'll tell you what I've learned and maybe you can all enlighten me a bit further with what you believe is correct.

Transsexual - a person born of one gender, but knows inside they are the opposite gender and live as that gender. This also includes those that know inside they are the opposite gender, live as that gender and change their sex/gender.

Now I've also read that the above statement is wrong and would be shot down in a heartbeat by true transsexuals (those that live/have grs/srs/ffs etc etc...), which I find rather confusing to say the least.

I've also read that Transgender is the term for the whole lot, ts, tv, cd, mtf, ftm and so on....

And then I read more and learn that transgendered means those that live like the opposite gender or want to live like the opposite gender, but don't change anything to become the opposite gender...

See why I'm confused?? I thought all those that felt like the opposite gender inside, or lived like the opposite gender, did or did not have surgery to become the opposite gender, all came under the term Transsexual.

Some believe that taking hormones and not having surgery, but living as the opposite gender is debatable to whether you are or are not a TS.

So what do you think is right? Why are there so many confusing terms on the internet?? How are we supposed to learn, when not one website can agree with any other?? :strugglin

SilkenPrincess

04-23-2006, 05:13 PM

Hi Tamara!
I suppose the difficulty lies in the fact that, like arses, everyone's got an opinion. And some of them stink! lol
But, like everybody else, I've got an opinion too.
I haven't had a "professional" diagnosis, but I've read enough literature to know that I am a transsexual. So, what am I? My body is male, but inwardly I feel and think as a female, and always have. Note that I DIDN'T say that I want to be a woman. I am one! I just want to be a WHOLE woman! My whole life has been a complete failure to measure up to what everyone said I am, and what they expected of me. I tried, but I'm NOT that person that they think I am. I am aware that there are a lot of people just like me that could be happy without going to the extent of surgery, and I wouldn't think to judge them as "less" of a transsexual because of that. To each his/her own. The best definition I could give personally of my experience is this: I am a woman with no expression, and a man with no soul. I am two disjointed halves, in perpetual disharmony, totally unaffirmed and unappreciated by those in my life. But, I made the bed, I must lie in it. Life goes on, and on, ........
Love,
SilkenPrincess
aka Steph

Natalie x

04-23-2006, 05:39 PM

Like Steph, I'm in the "girl trapped in a man's body" part of the spectrum. To me, that makes me transexual, whether I do anything about it or not.

Sometimes, in the search for labels, folks lose sight of the people to whom they are applied. We, in our community, are incredibly diverse; from the casual to the obsessive, and with every imaginable reason for doing it. When you are on the inside, it looks very different to how it looks to outsiders. I don't want to be labelled, because, like you, I am totally unique.

Priss

04-23-2006, 05:49 PM

I think the most important part of the definition of transsexual that is quite often left out to make the term more inclusive, is the need / drive that takes one all the way through SRS or GRS and beyond. I'd have to say, that anyone who does not have that drive, is not a transsexual. It's the drive that makes it. People will and have died for this... It's a need to be as whole as possible, that must be fulfilled.

0.02

BeckyCath

04-23-2006, 05:56 PM

Hi Tamara

Opened a can of worms here, this one could get nasty...

I don't post on here that often, mainly cos im living my life, and actually enjoying it for a change.

I'm living full time now, after an epic 20 month battle with the NHS to get treatment, and in the end i just decided that i'd be better of making my way in this life "as a woman" and here i am...

I think it depends on which website you read, and i guess if you were to post that same question on the UK based "flower" forum, you'd have to put your hard hat on...

In my opininion, the definition of transsexual is complicated, even the HBSOC (www.hbigda.org/documents2/socv6.pdf) has a number of definitions. HBSOC define transsexualism as a number of gender identity disorders.

I'm no expert, but a transsexual, in my mind, is a person with some form of Gender Identity Disorder.

I wouldn't ever dream of saying "I think like a woman" and "I feel like a female" as much as i wouldn't ever dream of saying "I think like a bloke". It's my experience, that on the whole, my cognitive processes fit in with "normal female" thought processes. Think of it this way, If you ask someone "How do you think?" What's going to be the answer?
I only know what it's like to think like "me", and i've asked plenty of folk about this,asking my female friends "How do you know you think like a woman" and the answer is usually, "I don't know..." I guess we know because there is a "shared experience".

When i had my speech therapy sessions, my therapist was also looking at my none verbal communication, and she said in a report that i displayed a comprehensive use of "feminine none verbal communication skills and representative body language"... Are those skills easy to learn? or do they come naturaly? I don't know, I'm just being me...

People who knew me as him and know me as her say i am much happier, much more at ease. Those who don't want to understand say they find it really hard to cope with, as i "do woman so well"...

However, I'm not sure i am transsexual... I've had 2 psychiatrists diagnose me with "Gender Identity Dysphoria", one of them saying i "exhibited GID in a most profound way" What does that mean?
Dr Khoosal told me "On the balance of probabilities, you do fit the criteria of classic transsexual"... what does that mean?
It means that even the professionals aren't sure...

I'm just me, and i am happier living as a woman, I feel at ease and at peice in my skin... I am able to function to my fullest, hold my head up high and smile, be confident and happy... Labels don't make me a woman, and i don't need a label to live my life as a woman...

Sorry to ramble, hope it all makes sense

Rebecca

CaptLex

04-23-2006, 06:24 PM

So what do you think is right? Why are there so many confusing terms on the internet?? How are we supposed to learn, when not one website can agree with any other?? :strugglin
Well, I think if you ask people here you'll get as many different definitions as are out there. Is it fair to come up with an agreed-upon definition for this site, just so there is a consensus? Or would that just make things worse?

Tamara Croft

04-23-2006, 06:56 PM

Well, I think if you ask people here you'll get as many different definitions as are out there. Is it fair to come up with an agreed-upon definition for this site, just so there is a consensus? Or would that just make things worse?No no no.... I don't want a consensus for this forum at all, I want to know what everyone else thinks. If everyone thought the same thing, there would be no need for me to ask?

Deborah

04-23-2006, 07:04 PM

Transsexual - a person born of one gender, but knows inside they are the opposite gender and live as that gender. This also includes those that know inside they are the opposite gender, live as that gender and change their sex/gender.

Now I've also read that the above statement is wrong and would be shot down in a heartbeat by true transsexuals (those that live/have grs/srs/ffs etc etc...), which I find rather confusing to say the least.

The i'm trannier then thou syndrome in the TS community. :rolleyes:

I thought all those that felt like the opposite gender inside, or lived like the opposite gender, did or did not have surgery to become the opposite gender, all came under the term Transsexual.

That's my definition also. I don't need anyone to tell me what i already know. ;)

Joy Carter

04-23-2006, 07:06 PM

Katrina

04-23-2006, 07:17 PM

My view:

TS = someone who undergoes any one or more of the following: HRT, FFS, SRS.
TG = all of us who question our gender identity.

Ms. Donna

04-23-2006, 07:32 PM

Opened a can of worms here, this one could get nasty...

Hi Tamara,

I'm not at all surprised by this thread. ;)

This is one of the biggest problems with the entire Trans community - who's what and what the hell do the labels really mean. Accept the reality now that you will not find any universally agreed upon definitions

The following should all be considered prefaced with the words In General - as there are always exceptions.

Transgender

There are two common definitions for this, depending on how it's used:

1 : An umbrella term for any gender variant individual. Includes crossdressers, transsexuals, genderqueers, transgenderists and anything else that idoes not fit the Cisgender Ideal.

2 : A gender identity that is opposite (or other) than that which one was assigned at birth.

Transsexual

Much the same as non-trans people, transsexuals buy into the Cisgender Ideal - which is: Gender is a binary system The only two 'genders' are man and woman All men are male and all women are female
A male (sex) bodied transsexual consider herself a 'woman' (gender) born into the wrong body. A female (sex) bodied transsexual consider him a 'man' (gender) born into the wrong body. In both cases, what they feel is needed to 'set things right' as to have their sex corrected to match their gender - the endgame being to realize themselves as a man or woman as defined by the Cisgender Ideal.

Transsexuals are most likely to use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies. M2F transsexuals are more likely to undergo SRS than F2M as it is more cost effective and there are much better results with vaginoplasty than with phalloplasty.

Most (not all) who identify as non-op transsexuals (transsexuals as defined above but who do not have SRS) do so for financial reasons (SRS is expensive) or because they can not get 'approval' from a pshrink and other in the medical community.

Transgenderist

Transgenderists do not accept the Cisgender Ideal: i.e. 'men' need not be male and 'women' need not be female. Transgenderists tend to live either full or part time as the gender opposite to that which they were assigned at birth. They are male 'women' or female 'men'.

While transgenderists may use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies, they do not have a desire to surgically alter their bodies so that their 'sex' matched their gender.

The main difference between the non-op transsexual and the transgenderist is that the non-op transsexual stills view their sex as incorrect and desires to have it 'corrected'. The transgenderist doesn't hold this same view (or at least not to the same extreme.)

Genderqueer

Included for completeness sake.

Genderqueers are much like transgenderists in that they do not accept the Cisgender Idea. We tend to live either full or part time as some gender other that which they were assigned at birth. It need not be 'man' or 'woman' - it could be something inbetween or totally different. We may be one thing one day and another the next. Usually, we tend to be somewhat ambiguous with regards to gender presentation. As fas as a structured view of gender is concerned, we tend to be kinda 'off the grid' as it were.

In terms of 'belonging', we are most like the transgenderists as we do not have a desire to surgically alter our bodies so that our 'sex' matches our gender. Our POV: what 'sex' would match our gender? ;)

As I said in the beginning, all the preceeding should all be considered prefaced with the words In General - as there are always exceptions.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

Stlalice

04-23-2006, 07:32 PM

Tamara,
I doubt that you will get any group of transexuals to agree on a single definition in all respects. For me it boils down to someone who has such a profound level of discomfort with the gender assigned to them at birth that living in the opposite gender role is the only way to as my sister put it to "live at peace in your own skin". Anything on the order of counseling, HRT, or SRS comes under the heading of treatment to facilitate that goal - they are not in and of themselves the goal or any kind of a "rank" or place in a "pecking order" of the "I'm more trans than you" school. 0.02

RenaCD

04-23-2006, 07:52 PM

Tamara thanks so much for asking this question,it has crossed my Thoughts in the last couple of days when another Cross dresser Mentioned it and Different Class Levels of Cross dressers and Trangenderisum.
So I am just going to behave and read and Learn

GypsyKaren

04-23-2006, 07:55 PM

The i'm trannier then thou syndrome in the TS community. :rolleyes:
;)

Now this is something I want to talk about, I may put a sticky on it. There does seem to me to be a caste system in the TS community...TS is better than CD, post-op is better than pre-op, and both are better than non-ops. That's a bunch of hooey that I won't tolerate here.

We're all trannies, and we all feel born with the wrong body. Just because someone whips out their credit card and gets cut on doesn't make then any more of a woman, or man for that matter, than someone who doesn't. As a matter of fact, according to my tranny docs and the research I've done on the subject, the majority of TSs DON'T go all the way, and the majority of those who do are still UNHAPPY with themselves.

This is a place for help and support, not cliques and the like. I believe that we're all in the same boat here, and we'll all get a lot further if we row together.

Karen

Kim E

04-23-2006, 09:32 PM

I thought all those that felt like the opposite gender inside, or lived like the opposite gender, did or did not have surgery to become the opposite gender, all came under the term Transsexual.

In my opinion, this is the definition of a Transsexual. The primary criteria would be a strong personal conviction that one was born the wrong gender. Then FFS, HRT or SRS would be secondary, a personal choice as to whether an individual would choose to follow, or not to follow that path.

I feel that Transsexuals include pre-ops, post-ops and non-ops as well. Unfortunately there is an unfair caste system that exists within the TS community. Because of this we can become our own worse enemies and can very easily alienate young and suffering sisters who are looking for support and understanding. I've been a member of a large TS forum for a few years and have seen this first hand.

Unfortunately, too many feel that in order to qualify as a TS, one must follow a certain set of rules and guidelines. If these steps aren't followed then one isn't truly a TS. I disagree with this thought process. Personally, I feel we are all individuals, each of us must find that level where we are the most comfortable, where we are able to find peace within ourselves and where we can survive. After all, the most important aspect of being Transsexual is day to day survival.

Kim

MarinaTwelve200

04-23-2006, 09:56 PM

Because of the lack of agreement with the sorces, it is always necessary to state the definition YOU are using whenever you discuss the subject of transsexuality.

In my case, I define TS as basically a person who has a brain and thought patterns that are at odds with one's biosex.---The typical Male who feels like he is really a woman is the most common example. This is not to be confused with homosexuality(HS), wherin only ones sexual orentation is "reversed" or CDing, which is something a person may DO, in conjunction with TS or HS but is also a hetrosexual activity vor various reasons.

The Theory I have heard, that makes the most sense, concerning TS is as follows.

The human brain, by default, is FEMALE, In boy babies, at a critical developmental stage, a male hormone is secreted in the womb which "re-wires" the brain into the typical MALE mode. In the rare cases where this does not happen, or in cases where the fetus does not respond to this hormone, the brain will retain its FEMALE DEFAULT configuration, and the boy will feel like a woman as he has a female brain.

The opposite condition where a girl baby is exposed to the hormone, to produce a Female to Male TS is much more rarer. As it may be due to the ADDITION of the male hormone to the system ---from external sorces or a very rare endocrene imbalance, rather that by a simple default. As a resuly M to F TS is much more common.

ashlee chiffon

04-23-2006, 10:57 PM

i've found the more i live my life, the more i enjoy the female side of my existence...
the older i get, the more i respect and revere all that is female and aspire to know and experience more as the "her" side of me...
how many times over the decades can one get a sense of exhiliration from dressing? the answer is ...each and every time...
being a transgendered *for whatever that is* is part of my life, is part of my relaxation, is my most enjoyable hobby and i would, if i could, live full time as a woman and be Very happy but i think and feel the same when in drab or drag...just act more fem in dress...and hate to take the clothes and forms off, but do and live my male life quite well and succesfully...but, it is often a lonely pursuit, being hard to find a SO that understands the concept *heaven knows, even I don't understand the concept at times*...but then, half the "normal" relationships don't work, either *check the divorce rate*...

i think that we can offer a woman a lot, if she's open to accepting and enjoying, and it can bring a closeness that is Very intense and exciting. *i've been there twice in two relationships and we had great fun shopping and playing!
Life's too short...we'll never figure it all out! Just enjoy while we can! there is No right answer! Like the Doors' song...."people are strange...*
my thoughts...to add to the confusion...:cheeky:

Natasha Anne

04-24-2006, 08:13 AM

Of course we all have opinions, and mine goes something like this, because it is how I'm living and thinking.

I think a transsexual is definitely someone who sees no alternative but to take the steps to change sex. Even if they cannot afford to, or it is medically not possibly for them because of health issues, they simply would if they could.

I also think transsexual is a temporary state until I achieve the gender I was meant to be. Sure I'll have a past, some of it quite pleasant actually, but it will not deter me from living and being the woman I know I am.

Tamara Croft

04-24-2006, 10:24 AM

It is simple to me Trans - to change or move. Sex- the plumbing you were born with. "To change one's sexual caracteristics." I hardly think one who has taken hormones can be considered transexual untill they have SRS. They are just men to me untill they change their sexual function.
0.02I've been thinking about this and your logic is flawed.

A good friend of mine is a TS, she lives most of the time as a woman, she acts like a woman, she even thinks like a woman and would transition tomorrow if she could. But she can't, not because she can't afford it, not because fear is holding her back, it's because her doctor refuseses to refer her to a gender counsillor. Does this make her any less of a TS, because somoene, who probably doesn't know bugger all about has said 'sorry can't help you' ??

Then there are those that simply cannot have SRS, GRS due to health problems, finance, commitments etc.... those still just 'men' to you as well? What they look like on the outside isn't what they are on the inside, don't you understand that? The saying goes 'never judge a book by its cover'.

Deborah

04-24-2006, 10:25 AM

Now this is something I want to talk about, I may put a sticky on it. There does seem to me to be a caste system in the TS community...TS is better than CD, post-op is better than pre-op, and both are better than non-ops. That's a bunch of hooey that I won't tolerate here.
Karen

Just for the record it's not my way of thinking. It's what i've observed from various chat rooms, forums and personal experience.
I don't like it either and it offends me also. :straightface:

Deborah

04-24-2006, 10:29 AM

Then there are those that simply cannot have SRS, GRS due to health problems, finance, commitments etc.... those still just 'men' to you as well? What they look like on the outside isn't what they are on the inside, don't you understand that? The saying goes 'never judge a book by its cover'.

Exactly i 100% agree and i'll leave it at that. :mad:

~Dee~

04-24-2006, 10:43 AM

there are so many different versions of different terms with different references ... blah blah blah ..
i too know this for when i was trying to research things.. i ended up at all different kinds of places.

as far as i believe, someone is transexual if they feel that they are born with the wrong physical gender. i dont see that surgery has anything to do with the equation, as many many different reasons could prevent a TS from being able to go through with GRS.

i do know of the pecking order of things, but i think thats a true bag of garbage .. i dont care if someone is CD'er or TS.. i think its still something that we each can help each other with and to an extent, understand.
i think that having a blanket term for the whole community is great .. and as far as ive been lead to believe, most people are using transgendered as that blanket term. i dont care what it is, so long as it doesnt exclude and it gets the point across.

according to some of the specialists im seeing (in order to transition) you must be acknowledged as 'gender dsyphoric' and also with 'gender indentity disorder' before being labelled transexual.

i guess thats where we get into even more troubles .. a lot of these terms carry a certain legal ramification with them... and though i have not researched it in such detail, im sure that each area will have its own legal definition of what is properly transexual.

ack .. the more i type the more im getting confused and the more i want to type more to clarify .. tehehe.
but i hope you get the point.
:happy:
D.

Cheery GG

04-24-2006, 10:59 AM

No wonder im sodding confused....its all very mind blowing although interesting and intriguing....

Thre still arent any solid answers though are there,.......I guess even the professionals dont know.....

cheery
xx

Lisa Scott

04-24-2006, 12:04 PM

I would tend to agree in the most part with Donna's thoughts on this subject as this is pretty close to what most of the UK medical profession linked to a gender clinic would state.

I would however maintain that this is a generalisation, and not everyone fits neatly into this categorisation. I have been diagnosed as Transsexual by 3 gender specialists, including Dr Russell Reid initially, and later by 2 other specialists at a UK gender clinic. I have had some facial surgery, and am on hormones which I have been taking for over 3 years, but at this point I have no desire to have SRS.

The clinic even recognises that you can be Transsexual and chose not to have SRS, or not to live in the female role as there are varying degrees of need to be wholly female and many different situations. All they will state is that for them to support you with a request for SRS, you must first complete the 2 year RLT.

During a discussion only a couple of days ago I was advised that a high percentage of transsexuals even go as far as fullfilling the 2 year RLT, to then decide against SRS.

To be technically correct, Most transsexuals would state that once they have had SRS, they are not Post op TS's, but actually females, as they have been fixed.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Lisa x

Hi Tamara,

I'm not at all surprised by this thread. ;)

This is one of the biggest problems with the entire Trans community - who's what and what the hell do the labels really mean. Accept the reality now that you will not find any universally agreed upon definitions

The following should all be considered prefaced with the words In General - as there are always exceptions.

Transgender

There are two common definitions for this, depending on how it's used:

1 : An umbrella term for any gender variant individual. Includes crossdressers, transsexuals, genderqueers, transgenderists and anything else that idoes not fit the Cisgender Ideal.

2 : A gender identity that is opposite (or other) than that which one was assigned at birth.

Transsexual

Much the same as non-trans people, transsexuals buy into the Cisgender Ideal - which is: Gender is a binary system The only two 'genders' are man and woman All men are male and all women are female
A male (sex) bodied transsexual consider herself a 'woman' (gender) born into the wrong body. A female (sex) bodied transsexual consider him a 'man' (gender) born into the wrong body. In both cases, what they feel is needed to 'set things right' as to have their sex corrected to match their gender - the endgame being to realize themselves as a man or woman as defined by the Cisgender Ideal.

Transsexuals are most likely to use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies. M2F transsexuals are more likely to undergo SRS than F2M as it is more cost effective and there are much better results with vaginoplasty than with phalloplasty.

Most (not all) who identify as non-op transsexuals (transsexuals as defined above but who do not have SRS) do so for financial reasons (SRS is expensive) or because they can not get 'approval' from a pshrink and other in the medical community.

Transgenderist

Transgenderists do not accept the Cisgender Ideal: i.e. 'men' need not be male and 'women' need not be female. Transgenderists tend to live either full or part time as the gender opposite to that which they were assigned at birth. They are male 'women' or female 'men'.

While transgenderists may use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies, they do not have a desire to surgically alter their bodies so that their 'sex' matched their gender.

The main difference between the non-op transsexual and the transgenderist is that the non-op transsexual stills view their sex as incorrect and desires to have it 'corrected'. The transgenderist doesn't hold this same view (or at least not to the same extreme.)

Genderqueer

Included for completeness sake.

Genderqueers are much like transgenderists in that they do not accept the Cisgender Idea. We tend to live either full or part time as some gender other that which they were assigned at birth. It need not be 'man' or 'woman' - it could be something inbetween or totally different. We may be one thing one day and another the next. Usually, we tend to be somewhat ambiguous with regards to gender presentation. As fas as a structured view of gender is concerned, we tend to be kinda 'off the grid' as it were.

In terms of 'belonging', we are most like the transgenderists as we do not have a desire to surgically alter our bodies so that our 'sex' matches our gender. Our POV: what 'sex' would match our gender? ;)

As I said in the beginning, all the preceeding should all be considered prefaced with the words In General - as there are always exceptions.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

pattied

04-24-2006, 12:05 PM

My view:

TS = someone who undergoes any one or more of the following: HRT, FFS, SRS.
TG = all of us who question our gender identity.

Ultimately I agree with Katrina. Though I would go a step further and add to her TS definition that the person must live as their desired gender. This does not mean dabble in it.

A very well known transexual wrote me once (http://pattiedelish.blogspot.com/2006/04/jenny-giant.html) saying "there are about eight million different ways to be transgendered, and that there is no one right way" and she is correct! To be transgendered is merely to question one's birth gender. And how one handles that questioning, is strictly up to that person.

I hope this helps some!

janedoe311

04-24-2006, 12:18 PM

It is slowly being accepted that there are than two genders. So labeling people is becoming more difficult.

TS definition is changing just like transvestite has and is changing. Transvestite and crossdresser used to be the same. A transvestite was man who wore woman’s clothes. The definition is changing, transvestites is a crossdresser that gets a sexual thrill out of wearing woman’s clothes and a CD is a person that wears woman’s clothes because of a need to express their female side, relive stress etc, and no doubt there is a little overlap between the two.

Well, transsexual and transgender is changing. The way I see it you can be a transsexual if you feel that you should be the opposite gender, but do nothing about it, not all us can or want to do something about it, for one reason or another.

Also, what about those of us that would like to be “both” ie magically change from male to female and back when we want? They would not be a strict TS. Since that is not possible we are stuck as one gender or the other and are not happy as only one, but are they TS?

Since this messed up society only allows two genders it is difficult for those of us to be ourselves who sometime need to be a female other times need to be male.

purple_spider GG

04-24-2006, 03:39 PM

I have come across this debate in the past. My ex is TS and fully transitioned and she argued that anyone who did not have surgery was not truely TS, she later argued that anyone who was living full time and identified as transgenderist, was simply repressing their true desire to transition. She is not the only person who has argued this and I have come across plenty of people who will stand firm that there is only TV or TS no matter how many times you hit them over the head with a reality mallet!

My partner Louise lives full time as a woman and she has changed her name legally. Louise plans to have breast implants when she can afford it and we have talked about the direction she percieves the path to be heading in. Louise says that she still does not want to have SRS and has health fears over hormones. She has said that she does not believe her gender is necesserarily limited to the defintion of what is between her legs. Its how she feels inside about herself, she feels she is a woman with a male body. Louise does not feel disgust about her body and has never really desired to have her penis removed. Somehow she has found a way to live with how she feels about her true gender and the way her body is. Although it may change and she may want to transition, I have no idea and neither does she.

I think that ultimately there are many people who could identify as transsexual. Non-operation transsexuals have their own reasons for not transitioning and they should not be made to feel that they are somehow 'faking it' because they don't want to/are not able to transition.

I do like the term transgenderist to describe Louise, ******* is another one but some people don't like that ;) However because the transgender spectrum is so variable I just think that if we try to box people into a catagory we may be doing them a diservice.

Hugs
debs
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Jacqui

04-24-2006, 07:40 PM

I am not certain, but I think I remember when I was young and first became aware of "sex change operations" (mid 60's) that the only people referred to as "transexuals" were those that had the operation.

I think that the term has grown to include all those who feel that they were born with a body that does not match their mental, emotional and physical state of mind.

My Opinions:
A non-op transexual is one who does not plan on having hormones and/or SRS. They may choose to live as the other sex without making the drastic, irreversible, and potentially dangerous changes.

A pre-op transexual is one who, after having the required therapy and RLT or RLE has intentions of going through with HRT and/or SRS, FFS, etc. to change their bodies to match their mental gender.

A post-op transexual is one who has had the SRS and/or HRT, FFS, etc. and now lives the life of the other gender.

The term, "transgendered," in my opinion can cover the three types of transexual listed above and may also include categories of crossdressers, some of whom, may feel that at certain times, e.g. while dressed, that they are either more comfortable in the opposite gender or would actually prefer the opposite gender.
On the other hand, CD's who have no desire to be perceived or become a member of the opposite sex may not be transgendered at all.

The varying degrees of transgenderism, transexualism and crossdressing, exist, however, in my limited exposure (totally confined to this forum,) I have not been aware of anyone claiming to be better than anyone else based on their degree of TG/TS/CD.

Jacqui

Jennaie

04-24-2006, 07:47 PM

purple_spider GG

"However because the transgender spectrum is so variable I just think that if we try to box people into a catagory we may be doing them a diservice."

Thank you:

I could not agree with this more. I know that I have had a very difficult time trying to fit into the spectrum, only to find that I actually don't seem to fit into any single definition. I really found myself angry, frustrated, confused and wondering why I am so different from any of these definitions. I became very lost about who I was and what I needed to do to make it right.

I finally decided to just try to relax and allow myself to be myself.

Tamara, I did not give you my take on the definitions because I think you realize by now that each and every one of them can be interpreted in so many different ways.

It would be nice to fit into a very identifiable definition, but for me at least, I don't think that will ever happen.

I do have a great deal of respect for the entire community of people who deal with gender issues. As Karen and others have said, we are all in this together.

Come on girls, closer..... Big group hug... :happy:

Ms. Donna

04-25-2006, 08:28 AM

Just for the record it's not my way of thinking. It's what i've observed from various chat rooms, forums and personal experience.
I don't like it either and it offends me also. :straightface:

I've experienced the same - both online and in person. I have been told to my face that I'm a fraud, that I suffer from Testosterone 'poisoning', that I'm in denial - all because I have no desire to have anything sugrically 'corrected'.

It is unfortunate that much (not all) of the hostility we experience in our little disfunctional community comes from transsexuals who have declared themselves as 'Queen of the hill' - the more 'trans than thou' attitude. And while not all or even most transsexuals are necessarily of this mindset, I have had enough 'discussions' (as I'll assume Deborah has as well) to realize that it is a very real issue.

To be technically correct, Most transsexuals would state that once they have had SRS, they are not Post op TS's, but actually females, as they have been fixed.

This is an important point. Most transsexuals do not even consider themselves as transgender, which is part of the reason for the hostility towards crossdressers and other transpeople - we are not considered to be 'the real deal'.

Their position is that they are women as defined by the Cisgender Ideal and after SRS, they are no different than any other GG.

I personally take the position that we are all entitled to our own definitions of self - what ever that may be. All I can do relate my experiences and views - my interpretation of the world and my place in it. I do not make any claims that my way is the way to look at things. All I ever expect in return is the same consideration.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

DonnaT

04-25-2006, 05:24 PM

If a person deems that their gender identity is opposite to the gender designation they were given at birth, then they, if they want to be labelled as such, are transsexual. Period. Leave the medical stuff out of the definition.

A number of people who identify as CD/TV also take hormones. Some want breasts, some simply want to counteract their hormones (block the effects of testosterone or oestrogen).

The medical procedures one chooses (or not) should not be used as a basis for defining ones gender. It is only a means for how someone deals/copes with their gender identity.

Note where I said, "if they want to be labelled as such" above.
A number simply prefer the term transgendered and don't use the term transsexual.
Even still, a number prefer the term woman.

A "transgenderist" was meant to be used with regard to someone who identifies as both male and female, but spends most of their time living as a member of the opposite sex.

Transgender is an umbrella term covering all that have some, no matter how small, issues with their gender. Again, they are what they self identify as.

For example, some CDs/TVs do not identify as being TG just because they like to dress in the attire meant for those opposite their birth sex. They have the right to identify as not being TG, just like we have the right to identify as TG.

And as noted previously, a number of TSs simply prefer the term transgendered and don't use the term transsexual. This, of course lends to the confusion of many who are trying to understand this whole transgendered thing. Tell someone nowadays you're transgendered and they will think back to the last (first) time they heard the term. Maybe it was on a talk show, and all the guests were TS. Thus, this person will assume that you mean TS, and ask when you're going to have a sex change.

The best way to not be confused is by not assuming what another person means when they use one of known trans labels to refer to themselves. Ask what they mean if you need to know.

Tamara Croft

04-25-2006, 05:55 PM

I haven't actually read any medical data Donna, I think if I did, I would be even more confused. Reading the posts here and on the other forum, it seems there isn't any real answer. Not only that, but a lot are offended at being catagorised into such labels. I can understand that and I can see that the majority of them want to just be classed as a woman. If that's how they feel inside, then that's how they should be classed. These terms are pretty rediculous, they cause more problems than what they are worth do you think?

SilkenPrincess

04-25-2006, 06:17 PM

To all,
Please read the "Benjamin Standards of Care". It is long, so get comfy before starting, but it has been the definitive standard for 40+ years. It's what the professionals rely on to protect themselves from misdiagnosing. Incidently, by it's definition, whether one begins or completes all the surgical procedures or not has no bearing whatsoever on a true diagnosis. Transsexualism is an identity issue. Very simple. Don't complicate things! They're tough enough already.
Love,
SilkenPrincess

Teresa Amina

04-25-2006, 06:30 PM

It is simple to me Trans - to change or move. Sex- the plumbing you were born with. "To change one's sexual caracteristics."

Would have to agree with this definition but really worry about stepping on the toes of those of you on the Transexual path. Obviously you know what you are! It does seem to me that the main difference between Trans-Gender and Trans-Sexual would have to be the need to change your physical characteristics completely. I consider myself a rather significantly transgendered cder but don't feel as if I must become as physically female as scientifically possible in our day and age.

Sarahgurl371

04-25-2006, 07:18 PM

Tamara if you think its confusing to you on the outside looking in, imagine what its like for those of us who are living with "it", whatever "it" is.

I have read so much information in books, the internet, then tried to reconcile that with how I feel inside, and try to make that fit into all these different definitions. I have not been very successful with this so far.

All the terminology used to describe those of us who come to this board is / and has been used correctly and incorrectly at times. I read things posted by CDs, TGs, TSs, and can identify with some but not all of any of it.

Then I decided to see some professionals about my feelings, 3 to date, and the current one is a gender speciast. None have really offered any concrete diagnosis. Even the professionals seem to dispute the definitions. Its all based on how I feel. Well I am just as confused as you.

Thank you for your attempt to understand those of us who are gender variant though. Its nice to know that there are some people out there who do not discard us because we are different inside.

I have read many life stories of those who have transitioned, and there is a lot of diversity in how they themselves describe how they feel inside.

For the record, my definition - any person who feels that they were born with the wrong body, ie brain / body mismatch, This mismatch disruptes thier lives to a serious degree, regardless of CDing, hormones, surgeries, could be classified as TS. The only difference is how far one has to go to reconcile thier body and thier brain.

As far as the classifications, I think some of us feel as though we have never belonged to any "group" even at the most basic level of what we are, and the label gives us that feeling of belonging to something, because we just want to belong somewhere.

rachel1985

04-25-2006, 09:20 PM

Hey Tamara!

Well speaking for myself, i'm a transexual. I am a male who knows that i'm female, and am willing to change myself to become a female.

I believe transgenderism is a P.C. version of saying he/she or ******* (as seen in another posting). Reason for me saying this, is in my mind, for instance, a bloke who wants breasts but wants to keep his penis. Whats a transgendered female??? What would a woman do in this instance?! Lose their breasts, because that surely would still make a woman, in my mind you just don't need to wear a bra, similar to other small breasted women out there. They're not going to suddenly don a penis and keep their breasts, because that comes back to the slanged he/she ******* comments.

I don't know about anyone else, but this is my views on the whole TS / TG situation. Its just donning another name for itself.

Ebonee_Tgirl

04-25-2006, 09:46 PM

I know one thing, the last people I listen to on this subject are the so-called professionals!:cheeky: I sometimes wonder why it is such a big issue. I tend to call myself a Tgirl, just to avoid some of the challenges that people in our community will throw around. I agree with Karen that anyone from CD to complete sex change is a transsexual. All of us MtoF to some degree see ourselves as female. Whether it is an occasional need to dress to experience a feminine side, or to live 24/7 as a woman, or to undergo all the physical changes, we all are transexuals in that we are/have transformed ourselves to whatever level we feel comfortable with. I don't know any FtoM but of course I believe the same is true for them. As a community I wish we could be less concerned with labels and more concerned with supporting each other. Sites like this are great for dealing with these issues and hopefully building support for all.

ashlee chiffon

04-25-2006, 10:09 PM

We're all trannies, and we all feel born with the wrong body. This is a place for help and support, not cliques and the like. I believe that we're all in the same boat here, and we'll all get a lot further if we row together.

Karen[/QUOTE

super sentiments...though i differ with you on the "and we all feel born with the wrong body"
though i would love to spend the rest of my life with a womans' body, vagina and breasts inclusive, i don't feel i was born in the wrong body. I feel i WANT to be in the female body, but fine that i can live as a man, also, and fine that i don't alter myself... I do this for Me and not for a SO, though i think the purrrfect for me would be to be a lesbian, with an occassional bi fling...
just fantasy talk, though, because i am and will remain, a crossdresser...a male in womans' clothes, and an Older male in a womans' clothes, so at this point it doesn't matter ...i think a Lot like women, love them, like dressing like them, but Am a guy in a*shudder,horror,dismay* guys' body!
Viva la difference!

OniKoneko

05-10-2006, 09:34 PM

Ahh, the age old debate. I can almost smell the scent of gunpowder wafting out of my speakers. Wait, I don't have speakers. Well, my laptop doesn't seem to be on fire so... good.

Anyway, the definitions change and vary because it is what I like to call a "physiopsychological" condition. I just took the two big words of "physiological" and "psychological" and crammed them together, but it works well I think. The battle, for us, in in our minds. A transsexual person is usually at war with themselves for one reason or another, try as we might to hide it. I know I've broken down sobbing more than once in the past month. The battle for everyone, including us, seems to also be about our bodies and sexuality. People cannot usually see past the genitalia you had at birth, even if scientists nowadays could probably grow a penis on a rock if they wanted to. They hide behind DNA and such, when scientists seem to barely know what controls hair color and how, let alone understand how DNA affects psychological development and development of a self.

The truth is, a transsexual is a transsexual. Transsexualism is largely self defined, and for a reason. No two minds work alike and, as such, the thought processes leading up to the complex web of decisions, options, and risks vary greatly between any two transsexual individuals. MTF transsexuals (or RTF, as I like to call myself... RTF = Returning To Female) and FTM transsexuals (RTM would work here for some, too) are vastly similar, yet vastly different. We encounter the same struggles and problems, yet the reasons and solutions are vastly different. MTF and FTM cleaves the "clear-cut" definition for transsexuality in two, while the halves are finely diced and distributed to the various subsections of the two halves.

Some feel like I do... That our quest is not to become female, as we already are female, but it is to return our bodies to being female. Thusly we identify as transsexual under the commonly accepted definition of desiring to transition. However, I think that some of us transsexuals feel that even though we are male inside and our body is female or we are female inside and our body is male, that we can live with this and, possibly, come to enjoy it. Some see it as a new experience, or a way to truly live "the best of both worlds". I see it as an experience to learn, but I still desire to return to what I feel is my proper female state and I will do just that when I am able.

The definitions of gender are blurring. The sweater-vest (ewww, plaid) of gender conformity is unravelling. Transsexualism cannot be properly defined nowadays because of just that. We're losing our old definitions, but we seem to hang on to our old mannerisms. The definition largely embraces a two-gender viewpoint, but the community shows that there are obviously more than two genders represented.

I think the only sure-fire way to find out what transsexualism means for someone is to ask them personally. Don't worry if they start crying, though. Some of us do that.

Clare

05-11-2006, 03:19 AM

Having read the entire thread, I guess my own views and interpretations have already been mentioned, so I won't bother repeating the same old samo...

Tina Dixon

05-13-2006, 03:36 PM

What the hell is a She-Male?

joanlynn28

05-13-2006, 07:18 PM

Simple answer, I look into the mirror and there is one right in front of my face.

Ms. Donna

05-13-2006, 10:27 PM

What the hell is a She-Male?

Think Pam Anderson packing 9 inches in a prono movie. :eek:

Love & Stuff,
Donna

LucyTwitch

05-13-2006, 11:20 PM

Hi

trangender?

is like a pice of string, at one end you have got Transexualsism and the other the occasional crossdresser. Most of us full somewhere on this string and have personal desire and drives. Some have a stonger desire to change the physical body, others dont, others have stong disers one day and then not so strong the next. We are all unigue in were we fall on this sting or traval up and down it. Lables just make the world to those who dont full on this string confused.

Love you all

Dee 1062

05-16-2006, 10:09 PM