relationship worry, please help

[Lisa Scott]

Hi,
I would like to ask for some advice, as Im worried my relationship with CheeryGal could be pushed to its limit over recent discussions, and I dont want to lose her. She means too much to me, and I know I could never meet someone as kind hearted, loving, unselfish and beautiful again.

The problem is that while she has done everything she can to try and understand me (and she has done alot, and I believe had alot of help and support from many of the GG's on this forum) and what Im going through, there are some things that we are struggling with, and which cheery is upset by. I really dont like to see her upset..

We talked alot before we met around 15-18 months ago, and during that time discussed alot of issues that were important to us both. At ths time it was clear I was TS, and I had come to terms with this part of me, but although I was on hormones (had been for 2 years then), wasnt sure about going full time or having any invasive surgery.

We met after talking for almost 3 months, and found we really connected straight away, she is an amazing person, and someone I would like to spend the rest of my life with.

We are currently in a position where Cheery wants to move on to the next stage of the relationship and live together (we know we love each other very much), but this has some complications due to location and selling my home which I have spent the last 5 years finishing, to move in to her home 50 miles from where I work. Also, having lived my own life for almost 20 years (building my career and travelling the world) the thought of losing my independence does scare me a little. Cheery also has 2 great children, who I love, but which can make it more difficult to be Lisa if I live there full time. Its a big step and a big commitment.

Cheery is the first girlfriend I have had that has known the whole truth about me, and accepted me (is trying very hard to accept me) for who I am. I broke off 3 previous long term relationships rather than tell them the truth, which I believed would end the relationship anyway, and would have hurt them more.

For me one of the concerns is that I got to a point in my life 2 years ago where I told everyone that mattered to me the truth, and I was fortunate that everyone was very kind and accepting. However, Although Cheery knows everything, we do hide the truth about me from her parents, sister and children. I wouldnt wish to complicate her life by telling them, but this can feel like a backward step, and feels like Im hiding something again.

It seems for Cheery the problems lie with 2 main issues..

The first is that She is worried I may one day change my mind and decide I need the full time path to really express who I am, and that the relationship would have to end. I honestly cant say this wont happen, as this was the intended path before I met Cheery, although I had my concerns and wanted to slow down a little before I committed to any permanant changes. Things have changed in the last 12 months, and I now live in a male role 95% of the time (although we both understand, or at least I think we do, Im still the same female person inside), only outwardly expressing as Lisa to go out shopping or clubbing a couple of times a month.

The second is that of sex in a male /female capacity and whether we can sustain a healthy long term relationship without this. Cheery has a relatively high sex drive, where due to hormones I dont. At the moment she says she has no problems with this, and is more than satisfied with what we do, but I believe she is concerned that without that part of lovemaking we will not reach that level of complete intimacy that she needs. I think she also has concerns over whether she is living with a female, and is she therefore in a way lesbian, although the outside world would only ever see us as a normal hetrosexual couple during day to day life.

It seems these issues are now confusing Cheery and I hate to see her upset. We have even discussed maybe having some time apart or breaking up because it would be easier than these issues coming up every few months. I really love her and dont want to lose her, but at the same time want to do what is best for us both.

Lisa x

[A sage GG]

Dear Lisa,
It seems to me that you are coming to the decision of being a woman full time. This is an issue that only you can decide, and since it seems to be the most important issue in your life, it's taking precedence over your relationship. Having an understanding and accepting SO during this turbulent time seems like a godsend to you. For her it can be disaster. She fell in love with the man, and has come to love and accept a certain level of your duality.
My only advice would be to talk about your future goals together. What she wants, what you want, and if your goals as a couple will be met in the years to come through old age. Love is a long and winding journey if you are not on the same path walking it together, then you may be cheating each other out of some other companion with similar life goals.
Best of luck

[Anita Mae GG]

Lisa,

I think you and Cheery need to sit down and talk about your goals in life. If you are truly happy living as you are now then go for it. However, if you deny yourself for who you truly are and try to make it work you may grow to resent Cheery.

I understand about the living single for a long time and now BAM you have kids and a girlfriend (if you move in together). If you can deal with the compromise of not being Lisa every time you want to be then that is what love is all about. However, it seems to go deeper than that.

I think both of you have to take a good long hard look at your relationship and decide what you want. You both may get hurt but in the end it may be the best thing for you.

I believe that everything happens for a reason. Maybe GOD is sending you guys a message. Talk and figure out what it is.

You as Lisa have to decide if you can sacrifice your true inner self for the love of Cheery. We all know you love and care about each other deeply but you BOTH have to be happy with yourselves first then with yourselves as a couple. Be sure you are both on the same page, of the same book of course.

Good luck to you both!!

[Cheery GG]

Hi everyone,

As most of you know by now i am Lisa's other half.....i would like to add a little to what Lisa has already said. (most of the gg's will know this already)

Everyone is telling us we must talk. That is ALL we seem to do....we go over old ground, ending up saying we love each other to bits, but a solution of any kind is never reached.

I am coming to terms with the fact that even when Lisa is in drab, that SHE is still Lisa, i can come to terms with that given time, but my concern is that Lisa will eventually realise that she is denying herself her true being...or that she cant continue to live the lie...although we two would know.

Talking doesnt seem to get us any where, we both end up in tears with no resolution. We need to move forward.....but neither of us know how.

I have mentioned that maybe we are both staying together because it is better than dealing with the emotional turmoil of splitting up, neither of us are storng enough to deal with that. At the end of the day i want what is best for both of us, were just not sure whether it is the same thing !

Were only absolutely sure of two things.....that we both love each other more than anything....and that we definately want to be together....Is it really that simple....are we making things more difficult ????

cheery
xx

[Di]

Were only absolutely sure of two things.....that we both love each other more than anything....and that we definately want to be together....



That said then I think you can make it work between you. Best wishes that you can sort it all out.figure out if there are any deal breakers that you can,t live with between the two of you and build from there.

[emma_bb]

i have a question for u cheery what is it about lisa's and i dont mean her male id that u want to keep secret ..is it how other ppl will view u and the relationship? i know my partner was terrified about me being discovered by her children allthough 1 of them did find out and i told him the truth and he was fine about it..i guess he knew i loved his mum and really that was all he was worried about
i know how hard this is and frustrating i still talk and love my ex partner in lots of ways our relationship sounds very familiar to yours and lisa's .i guess u have to both think worst case scinario (spelt awefully wrong i know) lisa going full time could u really cope ..yes breaking up is very hard especially when u love someone with ur heart but out of break ups can come some good i have a wonderfull friend now that i know is behind me 100% and someone i can talk to about anything.
i dont know what the solution is i know talking isnt the answer as u allways end up on a merry go round talkign about the same old thing i think perhaps u both need to sit down and think on your own about what it is u do want and make firm positive decsions otherwise this could carry on for yrs and never go any where ,which is also a strain on the relationship ..once u both have made ur descions then thats the time to talk
my heart does go out to the both of you because i know how difficult this is it pulls and pushes your emotions everywhere ..i wish u both the very best of luck ..love xx emma xx

[Sandra]

Were only absolutely sure of two things.....that we both love each other more than anything....and that we definately want to be together....Is it really that simple....are we making things more difficult ????
cheery
xx


You love each other and want to be together here is your foundation, you now have to build on that, it's not going to be easy but with the love and determination that comes from both your threads, you will be surprised at what you work out between the two of you.

Not a very long post but I hope it helps a bit and here's a big :hugs: to you both.

[Anita Mae GG]

Cheery I agree with Sandra......build off of that! It may come that Lisa has to come all the way out of the closet in order for you to be together. You have to decide what steps you would have to take to make you both happy. Maybe a counselor would help you if talking to each other isn't working....

[Lisa Scott]

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to say a big thankyou to those that have offered their kind words and advice so far, it really is appreciated.

Thank you xxx

[Tamara Croft]

This is a really very confusing, emotional thread and I have no answers, I have no personal advice, the whole thing is just way over my head.

So a suggestion for you both. You both need to find a group/forum that deals with the TS side of things, this forum is more cd'ing based. I know we have a few TS's here, but there are no big help threads about what a TS's partner has been through, there is no solid advice anywhere either. I also think you both need to go to a councillor together, you have done so much talking together and it's getting you no where fast. I think the next step has to be getting professional help, or you both are just going to go round and round and round in circles till neither of you can cope with this anymore.

I don't know what else to suggest :(

[BrendaB GG]

This is all about love. Unconditional love. I can't tell you what you should do (although counselling is a good choice), I can just share my own experience.

When my husband Tori came out to me, I immediately went to all the worst-case scenarios and my reaction was No way, could I stay with him if he made any permanent changes, etc... I prayed that he was just a crossdresser and not a transexual.
Well, Tori is TS, there is no doubt in my mind about that. And we are still together and I have no plans to leave.
I have thought a lot about what my objections were all about and it all comes down to social issues. What will the neighbors think, what will family do, and here's the biggie, will people think I'm a lesbian? So lets think about that a little further, my husband changes gender, and I'm worried about what people will think of me? Oh how I love to be the centre of the universe! LOL!
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm as worried as the next girl about losing my friends and family, but so far, every single person that I have confided to has been overflowing with support. We have told our 10 year old daughter about a month ago, and our 26 yr old son and his wife a couple weeks ago. The 10 yr old saw me looking at pictures of last yrs Pride parade yesterday and so i explained what it was and that Daddy will be going in it, and she wants to go into the Pride parade too!
At this point Tori is in male mode for work and any family events. But I think that slowly over time, people will all know.
And people will assume what they want about my sex life, I'm not a lesbian but if someone thinks I am, well,ok. I'll live, I think!
And it's not true that you need boy parts and girl parts to have great sex. Tori and I are having the best and the most sex of our lives now.

I think this board should have a Sex forum so that people can talk about particulars and those that are uncomfortable can choose not to read it. Anyways, thats another whole topic!

I just know that I'm getting more and more comfortable with the path my life is taking. I don't think that God has put me in this position to walk away. I am choosing the road less travelled and am feeling ready for whatever rocks get thrown. If love is unconditional, then this is the right thing for me and my family. You can only decide what is right for you and yours. I wish you both all the best.
Hugs, Brenda

[Cheery GG]

I would like to throw something else into the equation....as if it werent interesting enough.

As lisa has already explained, i have two children...two boys aged ten and seven from a previous relationship.

I agree with what most people have said, and am open to critisism or whatever....but is it right to put children through that turmoil...if they were to live with Lisa. How would they deal with the questions at school, the ridicule....the looks.....

At the end of the day im an adult...i can deal with it, and once i scowl at most people they dont do it again....but theyre my kids.....my job is to take care and protect them...wouldnt we (lisa and i) be making them vulnerable to all sorts of abuse ????

cheery
x

[Lisa Scott]

Thanks Brenda,
You are clearly a very thoughtful person, and I really appreciate your experience. Im not suggesting this is the path for everyone, and I wouldnt expect Cheery to follow that same path unless she is ready for it and really feels our love is that strong, but its helpfull to hear of someone who took the less travelled path and is happy about their choice.

Best of luck
Lisa x

[kathy gg]

Hi, like Tamara, I am not to good at offering advice on such a delicate subject.

The few things I am willing to write are this. I think each of you has to start looking deep down inside. I think sometimes the tough questions we ask ourselves are able to be asnwered with introspection, rather than verbal reflection.

I think sometimes the truth is right in front of us, yet we can't look at it, we look around it, and turn away. Being in love is great and important. But will that be enough through all the tough times? I don't know, for some people it makes them stronger but for others they run out of steam. Both of you will be batteling an uphill fight, you have children and you have family {cheery's} who will be the bigest stumbeling blocks. Is it fair to the kids? I ask myself that every day. and everyday I come back with the same answer, I have to raise her to be strong, be resilant and hope all the things we are teaching her will sink in and make her tough. {you know we are raising cleo with no secrets about her dad} So I get that concern crystal clear.

Lisa, I think you both have worked so hard. But I think the hardest work is yet to come if you choose to stay together.

[Cheery GG]

kathy,

Thank you so much for your honesty....love ya girl....

cheery
xx

[dancinginthedark]

I apologize in advance. I do not mean this to be harsh, insensitive or uncaring but I know it will very likely come across that way. I am sorry for that and I am sad to hear of all your heartache and confusion. Please take my comments and suggestions as just that. Just someone looking from the outside looking in but someone who does care.
If your spouse where ill or in an accident that left them unable to engage in what is considered to be the ultimate sexual act between a male and a female would the wife leave her husband? Or the g/f leave her b/f or lover? Not if there is unconditional love and yes compromise. When you met and fall for someone do you ask him to please take his package out so you can look it over and decide? No you don’t. Would a woman miss this part of love making if it would no longer be an option? I would have to assume she would at least initially. Maybe a wistful kind of yearning sometimes, but not enough to leave someone over I wouldn’t think. Jeez, even girl-on-girl sex may include penetration, strap on’s or fingers…
Since Lisa wants to be seen and regarded as female all the time why not take that finally leap of faith and do it. Stop with the sometimes I am and sometimes I am not. Yeah, yeah you always feel like a woman inside right? Then be one. Stop with the half @ss measures and make a decision and stick with it. You only cloud the whole issue with this 95% male dress and 5% female stuff, how can she see you as strictly female when you are presenting as male most of the time? I don’t care how you feel inside you are presenting as a male to your girl-friend. Talk about mixed messages. Your work place should have laws/rules in place protecting you. Check into it. Don’t want to face someone at work, get over it and deal. You are expecting her to deal and her children too. If push comes to shove are you willing to find another position where you can be Lisa full time? Think about it now if you haven’t yet. You don’t want your family to know? Again get over it and deal again if you want the freedom to be Lisa when you want then you are expecting her and hers to deal. Why should you get the easy path and her the rough one? Seems to me if you are willing to put up with dressing like a man for work and your family then you can love and respect her and hers enough to do it for them too. What you do in the private moments when you are alone or clubbing is another matter. Use them and enjoy them to the fullest. This really does not have to be an all or nothing issue. Plenty of us wish we could have what we want and when we want, but as adults we know it isn’t always possible or even reasonable to even expect this. Compromise, it’s the stuff of adult relationships and real life.
I think it would be unfair to expect children to readily accept something the adults can’t yet. If you intend to live together don’t dump this on those kids. If you are ready to make a commitment to one another and marry but still have not made a commitment to yourself I think you are not asking for but begging for heart ache. Speaking of compromise why do you have to move? Why do you have to sell your home? Is it too small to accommodate the whole lot of you? If not why not live there? Surely there are schools the children could attend in your area.
Jumping subjects here. Does it matter what your relationship is if you are both happy with it, sexually speaking I mean? I would think it would be a lesbian relationship even if the male bits are still there. It’s not like you are utilizing them after all and I would imagine just the thought of using your penis would take away the feminine feelings you crave/have or cause a lot of internal/emotional conflict for you. What do you think? How do you feel about that? Do you even want to have intercourse in the first place? Does Cherry know all of this? Are you sure she understands exactly how you feel? Don’t guess or assume a thing, make sure.
Do you two see this as a straight relationship? Do you relate to each other as members of the opposite sex? If you started your relationship with her as a male, even if you told her about yourself feeling like a woman inside, then it is any wonder you are having issues now. Have you made your decision yet Lisa, to be Lisa, and never be your male self again? If not how can anyone even begin to sort this out? Since you are only dressing as Lisa five percent of the time I have to wonder.
I am sure you have talked a lot to each other but did you ask yourself what questions you need really answered? What can you live with and what can you not live without? So shut up for a while and do some soul searching and then make up your mind on some things and then make a list of questions and concerns and then talk with one another again. Take a breather from the talking and just spend some time together as a couple. Back up a step or two and try to get some perspective. You love one another so take the time now to do everything you can find your own answers and to help one another find answers together too ~you don’t have to do it today or even this week do you? One last point, you don’t have to know all the answers to still be together and to be happy but you do need some basic things resolved. Use that foundation of love to build upon and whether you end up as lovers, spouses, or friends or all three you will have done the best you could by the one you love. No one can ask for more. Good luck.

[Sandra]

I would like to throw something else into the equation....as if it werent interesting enough.

As lisa has already explained, i have two children...two boys aged ten and seven from a previous relationship.

I agree with what most people have said, and am open to critisism or whatever....but is it right to put children through that turmoil...if they were to live with Lisa. How would they deal with the questions at school, the ridicule....the looks.....

At the end of the day im an adult...i can deal with it, and once i scowl at most people they dont do it again....but theyre my kids.....my job is to take care and protect them...wouldnt we (lisa and i) be making them vulnerable to all sorts of abuse ????cheery
x


Of course it is your job to protect your children :) but kids are a lot more understanding and take things in their stride more so than adults.

It is surprising at how kids do cope, and how protective they can become.

[~Kitty GG~]

In my opinion, and I think I have some experience with this since ~Dee~ is transitioning and will be fulltime female very soon.. Before you two can decide whether telling the children is a good thing to do, you need to decide what is right for Lisa. If you're going to continue 95% male then why tell anyone other then Cheery? But I must say that if you consider yourself to BE Lisa inside 100% of the time it feel like you are truly hiding from the truth and the world right now. So figure this out for yourself FIRST before you include anyone else.
Then when you can go to Cheery and say this is me.. for sure. Cheery must have a chance to figure out what she needs and wants and can accept. If your male persona is what you're presenting to the world then she only has to figure out what she can accept in the bedroom. If you want more then she will have to deal with those other issues. Whether or not she is more concerned about loving Lisa and being a true support to her.. or if she doesn't want the PTA to look down thier noses at her. If she doesn't give a rip if anyone considers her lesbian, etc.
The final issue as I see it is the children. I've heard many parents over the years keep things from their kids thinking they were doing the best for the kids. But I've seen that more often than not the kids find out eventually and feel cheated. They think that their whole childhood was a lie and so anything good that happened wasn't quite true either. They miss out on learning and they miss out on knowing their real parents. In this case they would never have really gotten to know Lisa.
The position that they will be targets of ridicule is often brought up. Nobody can be hurt by something unless they're ashamed of it. And so .. if you go to the point of telling the children then its their decision whether or not Lisa should be presented to their friends/school or not. If they feel comfortable with it then they'll be proud to introduce Lisa to friends or have Lisa attend a school function. If they are ashamed then they may ask for Lisa to keep a low profile.
Anytime that you assume someone will not be able to accept you are insulting them. I think a better tactic is to give them the option of accepting and if they can't THEN look at compromise.

From my experience, once you stop hiding and you come out in the open things can start to feel normal. And normal feels good. We've looked back now and are amazed how easy it all can be without all the subterfuge and the shame/guilt that comes with that.

best of luck in whatever path you chose.

[Bev06 GG]

The position that they will be targets of ridicule is often brought up. Nobody can be hurt by something unless they're ashamed of it. And so .. if you go to the point of telling the children then its their decision whether or not Lisa should be presented to their friends/school or not. If they feel comfortable with it then they'll be proud to introduce Lisa to friends or have Lisa attend a school function. If they are ashamed then they may ask for Lisa to keep a low profile.
Anytime that you assume someone will not be able to accept you are insulting them. I think a better tactic is to give them the option of accepting and if they can't THEN look at compromise.

.
Actually Kitty, that isn't quite true. Children can be very cruel. My 11 year old son has been beaten up at school very badly recently and it turns out that for the past year, a big gang of his friends of all people, have been ribbing him that he's got an older DAD. My ex husband is 15 years older than me. Now my son is very proud of his dad, but he ended up in hospital twice because of someone that he wasnt ashamed of.
I am a Children/Youth worker by profession and I do see this sort of thing all the time. Children are teased and worse for lots of things that they consider to be OK and dont have a problem with. I am not suggesting for one minute that the children shouldn't be involved in all of this, but Lisa and Em know their children better than we do. Hope you dont think Im being rude or funny with you but I felt I just had to say something based on my own experiences of working with children and youth for nearly 20 years. Some, not all, but some children would rather not have the responsibility or burden of it all, and then as you say some would feel robbed and cheated. There is also the chance that rather than upset an adult by being honest they'd say everything was Ok when really they felt quite akward about something. Very complex isn't it?
Take care
BEVxxxxx

[~Kitty GG~]

:eek: I'm afraid that you've taken what I said out of context. I by no means believe that being proud of things will keep everyone from ever being beaten up. What I'm saying is that if someone pokes fun of something you're proud of.. its not such a hurtful thing.

We all have a chance of being bashed because bullies must find a target. But that could be for anything at any time.

I have extensive experience working with childern for many year and just now am completing my last year of schooling for counselling.

I'm preaching communication here. Every child should feel able to bring the teasing to their parent's attention and therefore be removed from a dangerous situation. But we can in no way wrap bubble wrap around our kids so they never have to face someone else's ignorance.

If Lisa and Em tell the children they will of course want to be extra diligent about monitoring their emotions because its such a change in their lives.

Hope this makes more sense to all.

[Bev06 GG]

:eek:
I'm afraid that you've taken what I said out of context. I by no means believe that being proud of things will keep everyone from ever being beaten up. What I'm saying is that if someone pokes fun of something you're proud of.. its not such a hurtful thing.

Mentioning my son being beaten up is I admit taking things to extremes, but name calling is emotional bullying and every bit as hurtful. And I doubt that many children would be proud of something that is still on the fringes of social exceptance, unless of course they were exceptionally mature. Lets face it most adults struggle with this particular issue.


I'm preaching communication here. Every child should feel able to bring the teasing to their parent's attention and therefore be removed from a dangerous situation. But we can in no way wrap bubble wrap around our kids so they never have to face someone else's ignorance.

My son didn't feel that he could tell an adult because he thought that that would only make matters worse. Your right though, today more than ever we wrap our kids in cotton wool and are quite overprotective. Which in turn does them no favours, they just dont get the chance to deal with situations themselves. However, on the other hand there are some things in which we do have to protect them from because they are not old enough and haven't developed the required social skills to deal with it. Asking your kids to grow up too quickly can be everybit as damaging as wrapping them in bubble wrap.
BEVxxxx

[~Kitty GG~]

I didn't say to MAKE the kids deal with it..

".. if you go to the point of telling the children then its their decision whether or not Lisa should be presented to their friends/school or not. If they feel comfortable with it then they'll be proud to introduce Lisa to friends or have Lisa attend a school function. If they are ashamed then they may ask for Lisa to keep a low profile."

I say communicate, communicate, communicate. Find our how they feel about it. Find out what they can handle. Find out what they even want to bother handling.

If there's enough communication a child won't assume talking about an issue would make it worse.

There are many children who grow up not knowing their CD parent is not normal. They weren't mature enough to handle that at birth, and yet its never an issue for them. And there are "children" who find out at 30 and can't handle it. Where's the maturity factor there? I believe that the children can know and benefit from it if its handled well. I also believe that its easier for children to accept when they're young. And also that kids who are kept in the dark miss out on truly knowing the parent. Now I'm not talking about telling your kids if your CDing is very private or very seldom. Then its something that's just between mom & dad, and in that case probably doesn't have a huge impact on dad's personality. But if the CD wants or needs to dress more often and feels that his/her true identity is being smothered by having to cope without this gender expression. Then its better, in my opinion, for the CD to be able to feel at home, at home. And its better for the whole family if that CD is accepted and loved not pushed and locked in the closet.

Again.. I'm saying IF the decision is made to tell the kids.. then they should be able to communicate their thoughts, fears, and worries and a workable plan should be sorted out.

~Kitty~

[Bev06 GG]

I didn't say to MAKE the kids deal with it..

~Kitty~
I dont think I did either did I?.
BEV

[Cheery GG]

I dont think I did either did I?.
BEV

Children pleeeeease......now do i have to split you up and sit you two on the naughty step ????

em
x

[Cheery GG]

HI everyone....just thought i would let you all know that Lisa and i are working things out.....

We love each other immensely, and with everyones help and advise from here, were getting through our rough patch.....

thanks everyone....

cheery
xx

[KrazyKat]

I'm sooooo happy to hear this, Em!! I'm glad the two of you can start another chapter of this rollercoaster they call LIFE!! :love:

Many warm wishes to you both!!!

KrazierKat