What became of Jack Twist?

[miche_miche]

Jack Twist (in Brokeback Mountain) was murdered for being gay. I know it was only a movie, but that level of hatred is all too real, and I think it is directed at CDs as well as gays. Homicidal homophobes would likely not make the fine distinction between us.

I'm not ashamed of being CD, but I am terrified of what might be inflicted upon me if I were to be discovered. The violence might not be physical in nature, but could still be harmful to my family or to my career.

Does anyone share this feeling of terror?

There is a broad spectrum of "out-ness". On a scale of zero to ten, where ten is totally public, I'd put myself at a two perhaps. My avatar isn't a picture of myself. Actually, there are (I hope) no pictures of miche at all. I wish I could be more brave, but two is where I am right now. I'm guessing that the zeros and ones aren't even on this list. I say that because, until recently, I was too scared to post here, so for me this is progress.

I deeply admire all of you on this list who post photos, dress in public, and are who you are no matter what anyone says. I don't think I'll ever get there.

I'd love to hear from some of the other deeply-in-the-closet CDs. What keeps you there? Is it fear of physical violence? Fear of something else? Shame? A combination of fear and shame? Maybe you're just ok with things as they are.

thanks in advance for sharing,
miche

[Darlene Rochelle]

To me MOST homophobes don't know the difference between gay and TG.It is just their ignorance.That is one thing that has kept me in the closet,fear of being gay-bashed by a bunch of rednecks.Chattanooga is ULTRA-conservative,the religious-right "rules the roost".0.02

[Yes I am]

The thing is, the deeper in the closet you are the less people know about you. You're more likely to be victimized if you're alone, we'd all be safer with a network of friends and loved ones who know who we really are.

[sarahjan]

Firstly why does crossing dressing and TG automatically get lumped in by every one as being gay. A majority of CD's or TV, call them what you will are hetrosexual. As for the sexuality of TG's surely once someone has changed gender having sex with the oposite sex is hetrosexuality.


Secondly I often wonder if with some of these people who are so homophobic are trying to prove to the world that they aren't gay or are they.

[Yes I am]

Crossdressing gets "lumped in" with homosexuality because both go against what is considered to be "normal" heterosexual activities. Seriously, if it weren't in the same category then you wouldn't see every other thread in this forum be about how to "come out" to whoever.

[Kimberley]

I think that we have to have our own level of comfort. I for one am "in the closet" although my SO knows and vehemently disapproves to the point it may end this marriage. There are of course many other issues but this seems to be the one that is front and center. It is the easiest to blame. But I digress.

I would never feel totally comfortable in public although I am sure I could pass under the right circumstances, well maybe anyway. I prefer to stay at home or out of sight. It is the old fear guilt and shame trilogy.

I think it comes down to self esteem and confidence plus a good solid support system of people who know you and can see your values before your presentation. I think the more you have this, the more comfortable you will be with yourself, your circumstances and then the sky is the limit.

As to people being homophobic, that is pure ignorance and prejudice fuelled by that ignorance. Our society has set standards that do not recognize sexuality and gender as being two different things. Our social standards are deeply rooted in what I consider to be twisted religious values again based in ignorance and man's interpretation, not faith. It is a long road we have to walk.

I hope you can work things out.

Hugs
Kimberley

[allisonrn06]

In the rather small PA town I live in, I would be fearful of dangerous consequences if I were to be outed. At the very least there would be great embarassment for me and my family.I think those who live in a big city such as Pittsburgh or Philadelphia would have it easier though,especially if they were to choose their living location carefully.

[Bonnie D]

Most of it has to do with fear. I'm afraid to come out to my wife because it will hurt her but I will have to do it sooner than later because it's hurting me. I will have to leave once I've told her so finances comes into the picture. Crossdressing is not my only issue, my female self likes men. So my wife's first question will be "Besides wanting/needing to wear women's clothes, are you gay?" I will have to say Yes. I'm bisexual but that's a minor point. Also I'm afraid of what my son and daughter will think of me. My son's reaction will depend on my wife's reaction, he is very protective of her (which is a very good thing). My daughter looks up to me a great deal and so I'm very concerned about her reaction.

People fear anyone who is different from them or who may cause a change in the way people think. Regarding the issue of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders, people fear that they are going to influence their children and allow them to look at a non-conventional option. It's not easy living like this and they can see the dangers in it, so they don't want their children to have this option. People figure that life is difficult enough without having to voluntarily choose a more difficult one. Some strike out violently at those who propose an alternate lifestyle, some try to legislate it out, others try to use religion to get rid of it, some ignore it and others try to deal with it.

The first question someone asks a crossdresser is "Are you gay or lesbian?", depending on mtf or ftm. I think it's a perfectly legitimate question. People don't only dress for comfort or to please themselves which is more often the case but also dress to please or attract the opposite gender. So if you're dressing as the opposite gender then why are you doing so? As it turns out most are not trying to attract the opposite gender so this adds to the confusion of who's trying to attract who or is anyone trying to attract anyone else. Signals are becoming blurrier.

The more the GLBT come out in public the more society will learn to accept them. It will take time like all other changes and there will be casualties.

Bonnie

[suzanne claire]

I have a real fear of being exposed as my job would be gone. My position is that of a CEO of a large public company. If anyone knew it would be the end.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I just wanted to point out that in "Brokeback" it's actually ambigious about whether Jack Twist is killed for being gay or whether Enis thinks that's what happened.

Which is a good analogy for those of us in the closet. Obviously, you each know your situations better than I, but I'd just encourage you to take a look at what are the real risks you may be facing and what fears may be of your own making.

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Miche, Glad to see your post as you said proof of your advancement. Looking forward to seeing more. We are all friends here because of our common interests but I have a feeling that even if we were not CD's because of who we are inside, many of us would hit it off. I have the same basic personality as both Richard and Ericka it's just that I choose to express myself differently at different times. Sometimes one aspect "bleeds over" into the other but that's just the comfort level I'm at now. There used to be a big division between my selves. I would never think of going out as Ericka but then I found out about Renaissance. By joining and actually sitting down and meeting and talking with my sisters, it gave me the courage to move forward and out of the "closet". I've since moved on to develop my femme self as the group was basically moving a bit slow for me. I'm really not afraid to go out in public but don't do it just for the sake of doing it. I usually have a purpose in mind. When I do go out, unless I'm going dancing or something, I wear everyday clothes just like everyone else. I'm not afraid mind you but why "stick out" if it's not necessary? You do get the occassional moron who "makes" you and calls you a name or something but I don't give them the satisfaction of even acknowledging them most of the time. They are not worth the effort. People are less inclined to do that if you are with someone else as was mentioned. You just have to be careful and use common sense and not put yourself in a sticky or dangerous situation. Enjoy being yourself Hon. That's what it's all about. Take care, Ericka

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Miche, Glad to see your post as you said proof of your advancement. Looking forward to seeing more. We are all friends here because of our common interests but I have a feeling that even if we were not CD's because of who we are inside, many of us would hit it off. I have the same basic personality as both Richard and Ericka it's just that I choose to express myself differently at different times. Sometimes one aspect "bleeds over" into the other but that's just the comfort level I'm at now. There used to be a big division between my selves. I would never think of going out as Ericka but then I found out about Renaissance. By joining and actually sitting down and meeting and talking with my sisters, it gave me the courage to move forward and out of the "closet". I've since moved on to develop my femme self as the group was basically moving a bit slow for me. I'm really not afraid to go out in public but don't do it just for the sake of doing it. I usually have a purpose in mind. When I do go out, unless I'm going dancing or something, I wear everyday clothes just like everyone else. I'm not afraid mind you but why "stick out" if it's not necessary? You do get the occassional moron who "makes" you and calls you a name or something but I don't give them the satisfaction of even acknowledging them most of the time. They are not worth the effort. People are less inclined to do that if you are with someone else as was mentioned. You just have to be careful and use common sense and not put yourself in a sticky or dangerous situation. Enjoy being yourself Hon. That's what it's all about. Take care, Ericka

[miche_miche]

Hi Miche, Glad to see your post as you said proof of your advancement. Looking forward to seeing more.

Enjoy being yourself Hon. That's what it's all about. Take care, Ericka


Hi Ericka,
Thanks so much for that! I appreciate the support.

:)
miche

[tori-e]

Hi Miche,

Talk of trans violence is something that shakes me to the core. When out as men we enjoy a type of freedom that women don't have. When out as trans people we are doubly at risk. First if we are viewed as women, second if we are viewed as trans. I live in part of the country that is known for diversity and has a large LGBT community. Still there is violence. A few years ago a transwoman was strangled to death by a john. It's easy to discount it as she was a sex trade worker. But the threat is still there. When I'm out, I stick with friends, if possible while about. I keep my car keys/remote in hand when travelling to and from the car. I think awareness of your settings and not putting yourself in awkward situations is key. I know probably a few dozen transsexual men and women around town. Except for the occasional name calling, they all seem to do just fine on the street for the most part. (I know one that is currently selling her services as a she-male.) It's their personal lives that seem to have suffered more. Most have lost at least some family. For me it took ages to get out the first time. It's getting a lot easier now, but I'm still not out in the mainstream. My worst fear is my family. I don't care so much for myself except for how it can hurt my family. I dress after I leave our neighbourhood. I am more worried about my kids being rejected because of me.

Anyway, sorry for carrying on. Like I said, the violence thing gets me. But at the same time, with all the risk, the more "Tori" there is in my life, the happier I am. In general the fear thing is just something that is fading. Ever have something you are afraid of, then you do it once, then again, then a couple of years later you are doing it all the time and you think, "hey, I used to be afraid of this!"? Hopefully that'll be being out for me at some point. Maybe you too?

Tori


Jack Twist (in Brokeback Mountain) was murdered for being gay. I know it was only a movie, but that level of hatred is all too real, and I think it is directed at CDs as well as gays. Homicidal homophobes would likely not make the fine distinction between us.

I'm not ashamed of being CD, but I am terrified of what might be inflicted upon me if I were to be discovered. The violence might not be physical in nature, but could still be harmful to my family or to my career.

Does anyone share this feeling of terror?

There is a broad spectrum of "out-ness". On a scale of zero to ten, where ten is totally public, I'd put myself at a two perhaps. My avatar isn't a picture of myself. Actually, there are (I hope) no pictures of miche at all. I wish I could be more brave, but two is where I am right now. I'm guessing that the zeros and ones aren't even on this list. I say that because, until recently, I was too scared to post here, so for me this is progress.

I deeply admire all of you on this list who post photos, dress in public, and are who you are no matter what anyone says. I don't think I'll ever get there.

I'd love to hear from some of the other deeply-in-the-closet CDs. What keeps you there? Is it fear of physical violence? Fear of something else? Shame? A combination of fear and shame? Maybe you're just ok with things as they are.

thanks in advance for sharing,
miche

[LucyTwitch]

Hi

Fear of getting hurt is what stops a lot of TG people making that bold step out in to the world. In the UK there are clubs and social groups we can attend but even most of these are, intigrated with the gay community and most meet behind closed doors. But over the past few years thow, I have noticed as more and more TG pepole take that step and mix outside the Gay community. Sociaty is slowly changing towards acceptance of us. But there is still a long way to go untill we are just seen as normal.

[Delila]

while i have to say that violence is a concern i am less concerned because i would sadly be likely to meet violence with violence so my larger concern would be exposure.

In realation to the TG subject from what i have seen anyone who is not a completely straight male/female not cd or anything else generally gets put under the lump term transgendered.

[btmgrl6]

I guess it depends on where you live. I am 100% out. I live in California and our criminals don't discriminate. They'll beat you up or kill you without regard to your preference. They might give you an extra kick in the head or pop another cap in ya if they think you might be some kind of homo.
The regular citizens might "mad dog" ya (give you a hard look), but they can't be sure that you aren't armed to the teeth so.....that's about as far as they'ed go to express their anger. i am not scared to go out. I figure i have a 50/50 chance of making it home alive... nobody lives forever. :lol2:

Steph