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Leslie16
05-01-2006, 09:37 AM
Hey, reading the answers from the other thread I started here, something occured to me. While us MTF girls wear female clothes because we love it, it seems the FTM boys wear male clothes because they don't like female clothes (as opposed to getting a thrill from the boys clothes themselves.)

I know that doesn't apply to all you boys, but it that largely true?

This girl needs to know!

Kieron Andrew
05-01-2006, 11:15 AM
no thrill here.........i identify as male!

CaptLex
05-01-2006, 11:22 AM
While us MTF girls wear female clothes because we love it, it seems the FTM boys wear male clothes because they don't like female clothes (as opposed to getting a thrill from the boys clothes themselves.)
I know that doesn't apply to all you boys, but it that largely true?
I'm probably the exception (or at least in the minority), but I really do like boys clothes - especially when a shirt fits just right and I LOVE ties. If I weren't so fond of boys clothes and just hated girls clothes, I'd probably just dress in a gender-neutral way. I'm always complimenting male co-workers and friends on their clothes, shoes, etc. and trying to find out where they got them. But then I've always been very interested in fashion. When I'm casual I mostly dress for comfort (but everything is coordinated), but when I'm going out, I want to look good. :D

Kieron Andrew
05-01-2006, 12:03 PM
I'm probably the exception (or at least in the minority), but I really do like boys clothes - especially when a shirt fits just right and I LOVE ties. If I weren't so fond of boys clothes and just hated girls clothes, I'd probably just dress in a gender-neutral way. I'm always complimenting male co-workers and friends on their clothes, shoes, etc. and trying to find out where they got them. But then I've always been very interested in fashion. When I'm casual I mostly dress for comfort (but everything is coordinated), but when I'm going out, I want to look good. :D
ok seeing as you put it that way...........thats the way i feel i wear ties almost all the time on the night out! i love feeling dapper and gentlemanly with the attire im wearing!!! girls clothes urgghhhh!!!

Adam
05-01-2006, 12:21 PM
well i find clothes are clothes i just open the wardrobe and pic whatever is closest to me as there all male clothes but im not picky in what i wear most of the things i wear are jeans and t shirts i only wear smart for wedding and going out some where special (thats not often)
so bascily im a scruffy git :D

mistunderstood
05-01-2006, 12:22 PM
I feel awkward in female clothes. In male clothes I feel I can take on anything I need to do and win.

Kate Simmons
05-01-2006, 06:15 PM
I feel awkward in female clothes. In male clothes I feel I can take on anything I need to do and win.
Can't argue with you about that Hon., but just because I'm a M T F CDer doesn't mean I'm a shrinking violet myself. I can kick some serious anus if necessary and have already done so as Ericka. Ain't afraid to be myself by any means. Take care, Ericka

Wren
05-01-2006, 10:34 PM
It's a kaleidescope for me. I can sometimes be thrilled about dressing as a boy, and I can be just as thrilled about life in women's clothing, either feeling handsome or pretty is just amazing. On the other side, most of the time it's just "give me clothing" when I stumble around in the morning trying not to wear everything inside out. And then sometimes both can just be such a task, trying to be uber male or female is just a painful task and I want to wear a paper bag.

depends on the mood I guess.

sparro
05-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Hmm. Well, I suppose you would know about men's clothes being a little dull. It's hard to spice it up with men's stuff, considering that there is much less extravagence in what they wear. And that some women's wear is notoriously uncomfy.

I do get a thrill from wearing nicish men's stuff. Sometimes I just like to feel handsome and good looking. Sometimes I like to go to clothing stores with my girlfriend and just try on nice things. I mean, it's hard to dress to impress when you have a five to say, ten inch problem stuck to your chest. The life of a FtM is filled with sweaters and baggy jackets.

If I can pull off something manly and sexy, well, then I do get a thrill.

Abraxas
05-02-2006, 12:51 AM
agreed. i feel spiffy in suits and ties-- they just put me in a good mood. I do get a thrill out of some things, but mostly clothes are just mundane.

Kieron Andrew
05-02-2006, 05:00 AM
They say 'its the clothes make a man' dont they???

Jan W
05-02-2006, 07:52 AM
Interesting point Leslie.

I had not thought of something like this but upon reflection it does make sense!

It is worth exploring further.

Jan

Kate Simmons
05-02-2006, 08:10 AM
Hi Lex, I think you are pretty cool just the way you are. I,personally don't feel inferior wearing women's clothes but that's just me. I'm the same person regardless as Richard or Ericka no matter what I choose to look like, but then again, I have a different outlook than most M T F CD's. Take care, Ericka

Leslie16
05-02-2006, 09:29 AM
Well Leslie, I think that because we can wear clothes made for either gender and be more or less socially accepted, those who love mens clothes can jst wear them, and they aren't necessarily crossdressers. But with most of the people who identify as FtM, the clothes are a tool used to express who we are. So that's probably why you don't see many FtMs dressing purely for the love of mens clothes.
Personally, womens clothes make me feel uncomfortable and inferior, mens clothes make me feel comfortable and natural, and just me.

always thoughtful! You know, it makes sense. Males don't have fun dressing, they don't love dressing well, its just them. So FTMs are the same, I'm thinking. Females tend to have fun dressing up, and so MTFs have fun too. Stereotypes, but makes sense...

Leslie16
05-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Thanks Erika. :)
Haha, no suprises that a MtF doesn't feel inferior in womens clothes. xP

Also, I think I should probably point out to anyone, that I don't feel inferior in womens clothes because I think women are inferior. Thought I should point that out, because looking back it seemed like a sexist sort of thing to say. Anyway, I feel inferior in women's clothes because whenever I wear them it is a result of being made to wear them and having to submit to what someone thinks I HAVE to wear makes me feel inferior. And frustrated and generally angsty.
BTW, I never think women are inferior when they dress up. The power it gives them to play with guys minds! I should know -- I've seen it from both sides! :)

Kate Simmons
05-02-2006, 06:18 PM
I understand why you feel the way you do about female clothing. No one should have to be forced to do something they don't want to. I fought for our freedom of choice in the Army. I find myself in sort of a quandry now though. I've always felt that expressing my female self would give me a great deal of freedom to be who I am. Everyone it seems, even the TG community seeks to have you fill some kind of mold. Hard to explain. Most F T M CD's want you to act ladylike and if you don't it threatens them maybe?Peer pressure maybe? I dunno. Yikes! Sometimes I think I went from the frying pan into the fire. I was with a few groups but broke away because I just gotta be myself. That's the reason I decided to develop my femme self alone so I can BE myself and not some one else's idea of who I should be, M T F CD's notwithstanding. Yeah, I'm a maverick maybe but I feel freer for it. That's why I'm glad to meet you guys because you are not afraid to be yourselves. Have a good one, Ericka

Kate Simmons
05-02-2006, 06:25 PM
Sorry Lex, I meant to say most M T F CD's want you to act ladylike. These abbreviations get confusing sometimes, plus I ain't the best typist in the world. Hey , I'm blonde, whadda ya want? Ericka

Kate Simmons
05-02-2006, 08:06 PM
Yeah Lex, I agree about the beauty thing myself. That's the whole idea about developing myself as a person(as myself). I went to a Renaissance (TG org) meeting once and they watched a video on deportment ("walking like a woman"). I said: "deport who to where?--you gotta be kiddin'!" How lame is that, walking with a broom or a book on your head? I walk the way I want to. My vocabularly is, shall we say less than ladylike?(another reason my sisters get upset with me) Anyway, my point is act the way you feel. You guys have the gonads to be who you are and that's why I admire you so much. Take care, Ericka

jessica duprea
05-09-2006, 08:42 PM
Personally, womens clothes make me feel uncomfortable and inferior, mens clothes make me feel comfortable and natural, and just me.

I feel that way about womans clothes I feel confident and totally free to be myself, I feel alive and just all together and at ease you might say.

mens clothes are boring, ugly, and I hate being called handsome god I hate it.
shaving sucks to.

By the way I'm Jessica I hope???

Kieron Andrew
05-12-2006, 11:38 AM
I love being called handsome. xD It's happened a couple of times before and it rocks.
yeah i got called 'a good looking guy' by one of the GG's here and i was grinning all day lol, ive not had 'handsome' yet but i did get 'sexy' the other day so i guess thats better lol

NightFox87
05-17-2006, 01:33 PM
I prefer men's clothes because I find that they're more comfortable and actually fit. When I wear women's pants, they slide down my butt and it's so annoying. Women's shirts are also really tight, so I prefer men' shirts as well. Besides, men's clothes look cooler.

Kieron Andrew
05-17-2006, 02:03 PM
I prefer men's clothes because I find that they're more comfortable and actually fit. When I wear women's pants, they slide down my butt and it's so annoying. Women's shirts are also really tight, so I prefer men' shirts as well. Besides, men's clothes look cooler.
welcome Nightfox good to have another FTM about the place (if thats how you define yourself), make a into thread tell us a bit about yourself when you can!

CaptLex
05-17-2006, 07:45 PM
Welcome to the forum, NightFox! :welcom:

NightFox87
05-17-2006, 08:10 PM
welcome Nightfox good to have another FTM about the place (if thats how you define yourself), make a into thread tell us a bit about yourself when you can!
I actually identify more as a tomboy than an FTM.

julz
05-18-2006, 12:54 PM
I find that my desire to dress has a lot to do with what sort of mood I am in. In some ways I think that my motivations for crossdressing are a lot more similar to the MTF crossdressers who only identify as crossdressers. Dressing head-to-toe as a guy is relaxing and fun.

I don't always dress and I don't feel uncomfortable in all girls clothes. Well, I'm not really big on skirts (or shorts for that matter), and I've never liked dresses. Still I think the androgenous look is the most fun - I just wish I could pull it off better.

But then it does change a lot. There are times where I feel like I really would like to be a guy, times I don't care either way, and times I am glad I am a girl.

Freyja
05-19-2006, 04:58 AM
I always just found women's clothes bewildering, not to mention the social assumptions they are ladened with, boys clothes means you can just get dressed in the morning without worrying about what you look like or who you are trying to impress or attract... that and they are better for climbing trees.

Freyja

JiveTurkeyOnRye
05-19-2006, 07:38 AM
I find this whole thread very facinating, because I clicked onto it off the main forum page, typically I don't read the FtM boards. It reminds me a William Blake quote that I am paraphrasing for lack of having it memorized, but basically that what is paradise for the lion is slavery for the oxen, or in other words, what means freedom to one is entrapment for the other.

Freyja for example posted that what he likes about men's clothes is that he can just get dressed without worrying what he looks like. Where as for me, when I am in boy-mode, which is most of the time, I feel so bored by this same truth. I feel like as a guy it doesn't matter what I wear. That's the appeal of women's clothes, there's actually a bit of a skill required to putting together a decent outfit. In fact since I don't dress in public (yet) and I don't like to buy too many things for myself at once for this purpose, because of being poor right now, My goal for the past few months is to slowly collect pieces for one great outfit. Now, when I throw on my outfit, I feel so much more confident than I do if I just toss on a pair of slacks, a button up and tie.

I work in a retail store that seels gadgets, massage stuff and wine openers, things like that, and as guys we have to wear dress shirts and ties. The women have no real required outifit, and as such I see my female coworkers coming in with a variety of outfits that look great but are not just the same bland stuff all the time. As the summer gets warmer and warmer I frequently desire to wear my tiered skirt and the lace-tank with shell that matches the skirt. But instead I'm wearing a pair of chinos and a shirt and tie. So in this way I feel as inferior in men's clothes as lex does in women's clothes.

CaptLex
05-19-2006, 10:46 AM
boys clothes means you can just get dressed in the morning without worrying about what you look like or who you are trying to impress or attract... that and they are better for climbing trees.
I hear that a lot - especially from MtFs, but I just don't feel that way about men's clothes. Even when dressing casually, I always make sure everything is well coordinated and looks nice. They're not just functional to me - they're also decorative (for lack of a better word). Maybe it's just me. :D

Freyja
05-19-2006, 10:51 AM
I hear that a lot - especially from MtFs, but I just don't feel that way about men's clothes. Even when dressing casually, I always make sure everything is well coordinated and looks nice. They're not just functional to me - they're also decorative (for lack of a better word). Maybe it's just me. :D

Of course it's down to personal taste as well. And dressing well for guys should be encouraged, I'm a hypocrite in that I try to get my partner to dress better as a guy... It just seems easier to dress down as a guy, and to get away with dressing down more often. And oh how I wish I could rent a tux for evenings out... maybe I wouldn't avoid them all if that were the case... now of course I know I *could* wear a tux... but that is too much like "last refuge of the fat girl", a guy's suit or a pinstripe suit. And I'm not into being different for the sake of it. I'm not trying to draw attention to myself in my 'gender' choices.

JiveTurkeyOnRye
05-19-2006, 02:50 PM
Of course it's down to personal taste as well... And oh how I wish I could rent a tux for evenings out... .


See, again we're the exact opposite. As a guy, I hate that for a really, really formal affair, I'm basically going to be dressed exactly like every other guy there. High School prom there was slight variation, different length of jacket, vest vs. cumberbund, bowtie or button stud, but for the most part every guy had on the same exact outfit, getting the tux was practically a chore. (In fact, for my senior year prom, I actually just wore the tux we had been given for the Chorale show choir. )

I was soo envious of the girls for whom shopping for "the dress" was an event. I wanted to wear a prom dress so badly. I don't even want to be a girl, I just wish I could get to wear the clothes that I want to wear as a guy. Like you said, you *could* wear a tux and have it get written off as the "last refuge of a fat girl". There's no writing off as why that guy is wearing the nice dress.

Kimberley
05-19-2006, 03:38 PM
Hi Guys,
I know I havent been hanging around much lately so I have sort of lost touch with what's been happening. Anyway, if you dont mind I would like to toss in my thoughts.

First, I have been CD, TG, TS whatever since my earliest memories. Those of you who have been around for a while already know that. Oh and by the way, a welcome to the new guys on the forum. It's good to see new blood. BTW I havent seen Fainne or did I just miss it? Is he still around?

I dont feel any different when crossdressed, well maybe more at home. That doesnt mean gowns and dresses, I still prefer a pair of jeans and casual. Just me. I dont like to make a big deal out of it mostly because like you guys, it is all about how you feel. Yeah you can get away with it a lot more easily than we can but big deal. I say go for it!

I noticed a few comments about inequality and I think overall that is true but from my own experience (and this is where the fem side resides) I also feel it through my life. I guess I dont take a stand socially or professionally except where I am forced to (teaching). So, I guess what I feel is not second class but somehow dismissed. Does that make sense? I have also come across some very aggressive women in business who make me feel the same way. Nothing wrong with it as long as no one gets hurt and I am already overly sensitive to begin with.

I think you are right in that there are a lot of abrasive? CD's (hopefully I am not among them). I think there is too much emphasis on the clothing and not enough on feelings. (Okay there's the fem side again, at least I recognize it.)

As to dressing itself, unlike many M2F's I have no real interest in getting all dolled up and scaring the population of this city half to death. (For that matter, I detest suits and ties etc.) Sure, I can go out in a pair of jeans and top etc. (Yes Cap'n, coordinated of course) and no one notices or if they do nothing is said. Sure I have had an occasional odd glance from some high school confidential but other than that notta.

I guess in the end it is all about how you feel inside and whether you can outwardly express it. I think that some of those personality traits exist openly for me although I dont try to present myself as a runway queen (how gauche). I'm not overtly effeminate but there are a few little idiosyncracies that I notice although I doubt others do.

Anyway, good thread.

Kimberley.

CaptLex
05-19-2006, 04:13 PM
Welcome back, Kimberley. I always enjoy your posts. And you're right, I've been wondering about Fainne myself. Hopefully it wasn't anything we said.

Ms. Donna
05-19-2006, 04:36 PM
As to dressing itself, unlike many M2F's I have no real interest in getting all dolled up and scaring the population of this city half to death. (For that matter, I detest suits and ties etc.) Sure, I can go out in a pair of jeans and top etc. (Yes Cap'n, coordinated of course) and no one notices or if they do nothing is said. Sure I have had an occasional odd glance from some high school confidential but other than that notta.

I guess in the end it is all about how you feel inside and whether you can outwardly express it. I think that some of those personality traits exist openly for me although I dont try to present myself as a runway queen (how gauche). I'm not overtly effeminate but there are a few little idiosyncracies that I notice although I doubt others do.


We are both on the same page with regards to dressing and the feelings behind it. I dress to feel comfortable, not to feel 'feminine'.

Cap'n met me and I'd be interested in his honest opinion (:: Donna braces for impact... ::) How did I come across? I doubt is was 'girly' - androgenous probably - but not terribly 'feminine'. Im sure that to most, it's sort of an 'odd' mix - not quite a guy, but not really a gal either. For me, it's about as close to how I feel as I can get.

I hate that it's guy's or girl's clothing. Clothes should be clothes - with anyone wearing whatever feels best to them.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

CaptLex
05-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Cap'n met me and I'd be interested in his honest opinion (:: Donna braces for impact... ::) How did I come across? I doubt is was 'girly' - androgenous probably - but not terribly 'feminine'. Im sure that to most, it's sort of an 'odd' mix - not quite a guy, but not really a gal either. For me, it's about as close to how I feel as I can get.
LOL, Donna . . . I'd say you're right on about your look. I'd definitely describe it as androgynous and not girly. You do have very nice, feminine-looking jewelry, though. :thumbup: I'd say you have a look that blends in well in our city and barely raises an eyebrow, and I agree that as long as you're comfortable with what you wear, no one else's opinion matters.

Marlena Dahlstrom
05-20-2006, 02:17 AM
I always just found women's clothes bewildering, not to mention the social assumptions they are ladened with,

Actually men's clothing can have lots of social assumptions as well. It's just, as Anne Hollander notes in her excellent "Sex and Suits" it's a different language than women's clothing, consequently women aren't necessarily as good at "reading" the subtlies as men are with each other.


boys clothes means you can just get dressed in the morning without worrying about what you look like or who you are trying to impress or attract...

Depends. Yes men's clothing tends more toward being a "uniform" and with more casual dressing these days it does tend to level things -- but in a corporate/professional environment men may not say they pay attention to how they're dressed (that would be unmanly), but they often are. Or why the book "Dress for Success" was a raging best-seller back in the 1980s. (The men's book actually was the first one, the women's book came later.)


that and they are better for climbing trees.

That's definitely true.

kittypw GG
05-20-2006, 08:16 AM
Hahaha, so true. xD Although, that's another part of dressing as a female that I hate. Society seems to go, "Okay girls, you're all loking beautiful! Use that beauty!" And while most girls seem to be happy with that, my reaction is more along the lines of, "...So what, that's it? I get beauty? What about strength and toughness and intelligence and wit?" And yeah, I know that there's waaaay more to being a girl than looking good, but looking good seems to dominate, which irritates me.

This is driven by men. Even the mtf's put gg's down for not dressing as nice or sexy as them. If men would not be so superficial more women would be willing to use their intelligence and wit to attract men but alas this never works. Lets face it men want the blonde, skinny, superficial trophy women on their side. I sometimes feel sorry for my self that I have been cursed with being a heterosexual. Maybe this is why mtf's seem to have a harder time accepting themselves whereas ftm's seem to be more comfortable being who and what they are?

JiveTurkeyOnRye
05-20-2006, 04:59 PM
Actually men's clothing can have lots of social assumptions as well. It's just, as Anne Hollander notes in her excellent "Sex and Suits" it's a different language than women's clothing, consequently women aren't necessarily as good at "reading" the subtlies as men are with each other.

Depends. Yes men's clothing tends more toward being a "uniform" and with more casual dressing these days it does tend to level things -- but in a corporate/professional environment men may not say they pay attention to how they're dressed (that would be unmanly), but they often are. Or why the book "Dress for Success" was a raging best-seller back in the 1980s. (The men's book actually was the first one, the women's book came later.)
.

I agree that there are subtle differences in men's suits that can make an image very different from another, for example, I often wear a sport coat over dress slacks, but with an untucked shirt and no tie. A nice blend of formal attire with a more casual attitude. Couldn't wear it to a black tie affair but it makes a nice outfit for a dinner out in an upscale restaraunt.

Course I'd much rather wear a luxurious dress to either.

Kieron Andrew
05-20-2006, 07:06 PM
i got over 30 ties, 4 blazers, god knows how many shirts and pants! what do you think i prefer wearin' lol

gennee
05-21-2006, 09:37 AM
I'm probably the exception (or at least in the minority), but I really do like boys clothes - especially when a shirt fits just right and I LOVE ties. If I weren't so fond of boys clothes and just hated girls clothes, I'd probably just dress in a gender-neutral way. I'm always complimenting male co-workers and friends on their clothes, shoes, etc. and trying to find out where they got them. But then I've always been very interested in fashion. When I'm casual I mostly dress for comfort (but everything is coordinated), but when I'm going out, I want to look good. :D

I'm like you, CaptLex. As a MTF crossdresser, I always wonder where the ladies get their clothing from. I browse in women's stores or the women's section of department stores. I like to have my clothes coordinated. I received my fashion sense from my late mom.

Right now, I'm wearing a blue foral suit with black heels that I purchased on Friday. It's my wife's suit, but she's out right now. I had more time this weekend to be 'Gennee' and I'm enjoying every moment.

Gennee

trannie T
05-21-2006, 03:59 PM
i got over 30 ties, 4 blazers, god knows how many shirts and pants! what do you think i prefer wearin' lol

I have 0 ties, 0 blazers but a whole bunch of dresses and skirts. lol

Kimberley
05-21-2006, 06:44 PM
Cap'n met me and I'd be interested in his honest opinion (:: Donna braces for impact... ::) How did I come across? I doubt is was 'girly' - androgenous probably - but not terribly 'feminine'.
Love & Stuff,
Donna[/QUOTE]
**************
It's about time you two hooked up! COOL!

Yes Donna, I think androgeny would probably be a fair description for my approach. Sure I like to "dress up" rather than down every once in a blue moon but it is for moi, and behind closed doors. Still, it all comes down to how you feel. Trying to make a statement just doesnt sit with me. I think there are more than enough flambouyant drag queens already stirring up the pot and as for me passing? I dont think so. So in my mind, why bother? Just dress for comfort and let it go at that.

I think more of the M2F's could take a lesson from the guys here. I'm not trying to be critical but if they dressed down, I think acceptance would be more forthcoming over time. We know that a few of us do but I think we are in the minority. Just my opinion on that. Okay, now that my crystal ball has clouded over....

Kimberley.

JiveTurkeyOnRye
05-21-2006, 07:33 PM
This is driven by men. Even the mtf's put gg's down for not dressing as nice or sexy as them. If men would not be so superficial more women would be willing to use their intelligence and wit to attract men but alas this never works. Lets face it men want the blonde, skinny, superficial trophy women on their side.


Honestly I have to say I disagree with you here. First of all, not all of us mtf's put gg's down. I know it seems that way with the way that some of them post over in the other thread, but this is an example of the squeeky wheel getting greased.

Second of all it has always been my experience that women, gg's, usually dress more for other women than they do for men. I have heard this statement numerous times from various women, my own mother included.

But I do think you were right about mtf's having trouble with acceptance because of beauty issues. I find women so beautiful I feel that I pale in comparisson when trying to dress like one. It's why I have given up on passing. I will never look like a beautiful woman, I will have to settle for a beautiful man in women's clothes.

kittypw GG
05-21-2006, 11:35 PM
Honestly I have to say I disagree with you here. First of all, not all of us mtf's put gg's down. I know it seems that way with the way that some of them post over in the other thread, but this is an example of the squeeky wheel getting greased.

Second of all it has always been my experience that women, gg's, usually dress more for other women than they do for men. I have heard this statement numerous times from various women, my own mother included.

But I do think you were right about mtf's having trouble with acceptance because of beauty issues. I find women so beautiful I feel that I pale in comparisson when trying to dress like one. It's why I have given up on passing. I will never look like a beautiful woman, I will have to settle for a beautiful man in women's clothes.

Alyssa,
I think that the mtf's do kind of put us gg's down for not dressing so fem. My husband always is harping on me to wear more skirts.

I don't think that I dress for other gg's either. I do however feel great when I notice that other gg's have "checked out" what I am wearing. That is when I know that I am looking good. But I have to say that I dress mostly for myself. I would love to wear certain fashions but alas I get the kind of attention that I do not want. I hate it when men talk to my boobs so I do not go about acentuating that aspect of my anatomy. So I guess you can say that in a way I feel restricted in how I dress because it would bring unwarented attention by men in general.

Lastly I think that your last statement was so profound. What is wrong with being a beautiful man in womens clothes? I happen to be in love with one. Six foot two, not real feminine but oh so sexy. :D

Great thread by the way. Kitty

Marlena Dahlstrom
05-21-2006, 11:37 PM
i got over 30 ties, 4 blazers, god knows how many shirts and pants! what do you think i prefer wearin' lol

Good god man... you realize you might just be.... a metrosexual.... :bs:

JiveTurkeyOnRye
05-22-2006, 07:38 AM
Alyssa,
I think that the mtf's do kind of put us gg's down for not dressing so fem. My husband always is harping on me to wear more skirts.

I don't think that I dress for other gg's either. I do however feel great when I notice that other gg's have "checked out" what I am wearing. That is when I know that I am looking good. But I have to say that I dress mostly for myself. I would love to wear certain fashions but alas I get the kind of attention that I do not want. I hate it when men talk to my boobs so I do not go about acentuating that aspect of my anatomy. So I guess you can say that in a way I feel restricted in how I dress because it would bring unwarented attention by men in general.

Lastly I think that your last statement was so profound. What is wrong with being a beautiful man in womens clothes? I happen to be in love with one. Six foot two, not real feminine but oh so sexy. :D

Great thread by the way. Kitty

Oh I love being a beautiful man in women's clothes. I just wish it was something I could get away with more often.

As far as your husband telling you to wear skirts more often, I don't really think there's anything wrong with that, nor do I think it speaks to a overall issue of male superficiality, or him putting you down. Maybe he just thinks you look really good in skirts? Are you telling me there's no outfit, boys or girls clothes, that you think he looks great in and wish he would wear more often?

But again I will reiterate that I hate any of the threads in the mtf forum that imply that crossdressers are better at being women than women are. I think I dress for different reasons than they do so the motivations behind those threads leave me baffled. I guess I'm the rarity in that I don't dress out of a desire to be ultra femminine, or to be a woman, but rather to just incorporate clothes that I like that happen to be femme into my wardrobe. Sure, being femminine is a nice change of pace for a male in our narrow-minded society, but that's not why I dress, I just love the clothes.

Freyja
05-22-2006, 10:36 AM
Actually men's clothing can have lots of social assumptions as well. It's just, as Anne Hollander notes in her excellent "Sex and Suits" it's a different language than women's clothing, consequently women aren't necessarily as good at "reading" the subtlies as men are with each other.


Well I was thinking in terms of every-day casual clothing, weekend stuff, local pub stuff not anywhere that has a dress code...

Men's clothing may have signals to give out, but generally they get to be more scruffy than women, and that I envy. Any given Saturday you'll see men in the local shopping centre wearing jeans, runners and a t-shirt whereas the women totter about dressed to the nines... for shopping?! for grocery shopping!? I ask you where is the sense. You can see the exuding self-consciousness.

(of course there are others who think that it's de riguer to wear their PJs or their mankiest tracksuit out as well but generally their men are even worse)

JiveTurkeyOnRye
05-22-2006, 10:42 PM
Any given Saturday you'll see men in the local shopping centre wearing jeans, runners and a t-shirt whereas the women totter about dressed to the nines... for shopping?! for grocery shopping!? I ask you where is the sense. You can see the exuding self-consciousness.



I'll agree with you on that. I remember my mother a couple times complaining as we pulled into the grocery store that she looked thrown together and she was worried she'd run into someone she knew. I remember thinking "you're grocery shopping, who cares?"

Marlena Dahlstrom
05-22-2006, 11:41 PM
Well I was thinking in terms of every-day casual clothing, weekend stuff, local pub stuff not anywhere that has a dress code...

Yeah, that's true.


Any given Saturday you'll see men in the local shopping centre wearing jeans, runners and a t-shirt whereas the women totter about dressed to the nines... for shopping?! for grocery shopping!? I ask you where is the sense. You can see the exuding self-consciousness.

Hmm... In the malls or grocery stores of California casual rules the day. A women dressed to the nines would be self-conscious 'cuz she'd probably be the only one in the crowd dressed that way.

BTW, I'm not saying that's a bad thing -- folks have the right to dress the way they want.

chloe_tv1
05-23-2006, 02:09 AM
i find womens clothes more comfortable than guys

Bridget
05-27-2006, 02:29 PM
I feel awkward in female clothes. In male clothes I feel I can take on anything I need to do and win.

I agree. Pants have plenty of functional pockets for all sorts of useful items. I mean, when out in male mode (I personally hate the term drab, as it implies there's something wrong with it...) I have my wallet, glasses cloth, keys, swiss ultility knife, and sometimes other stuff. I feel like I am prepared for anything. (Scout salute) A lot of them are loose and comfortable too and movement is not restricted as much as with tight clothes. Also, if you rip or some how waste a piece of regular clothing, you can usually run to the local Pennys or Mervyns and by an exact copy of it. Men's fashion isn't the protean multi-headed beast it is for women's clothing (wait a month and you'll never see the same type of clothing for 30 years)

At the same time men's clothing, while not like girl clothing, can just look good. Sharp, is the word I would use.

Kirchein
06-16-2006, 06:10 AM
yo me, I agree with lex, captlex and i forgot with which one else :P. That means I love men´s and guy clothes, although i have never wear a tie or a suit cos my parents dont allow me :(, but id love to. When Im dressed as a boy (that means everyday lol) i feel pretty good, its me that the way I am, also guy clothes are really comfortable and cool, and when I wear GG clothes its sth like "i just wear them because im supposed to be a Girly girl and i must "SHOW" my feminity? by wearing a tight I CANT BREATHE shirt and bitchy LOOK AT MY %@& jeans


and me again has a question.

(...) those who love mens clothes can jst wear them, and they aren't necessarily crossdressers. (...) .

so what does being a crossdresser involve, or mean?

thx ppl

(does anyone knows how (the f..... flower) can I persuade my parents to allow me wearing a suit ? cos they seem to dont notice that i feel shit when i wear a dress :( )

thx again :D

Kirchein
06-16-2006, 06:23 AM
ah I the other person with whom I agreed was nightfox (sry dear :o )

and well i´ve read a little more the post and ive notice that


There are times where I feel like I really would like to be a guy, times I don't care either way, and times I am glad I am a girl.

Same for me


I always just found women's clothes bewildering, not to mention the social assumptions they are ladened with, boys clothes means you can just get dressed in the morning without worrying about what you look like or who you are trying to impress or attract... that and they are better for climbing trees.

Freyja

Same for me. (thats what i mean when i said guy clothes are really comfortable lol) U cant play, run or get dirty when ur wearing a dress :( or at least ur not supposed to


Even when dressing casually, I always make sure everything is well coordinated and looks nice. They're not just functional to me - they're also decorative (for lack of a better word). Maybe it's just me. :D

no its not just u, i also try to look nice and that things but i wear boy clothes.


jijiji bye ppl again again me

CaptLex
06-16-2006, 08:56 AM
To me, if you dress in men's clothes and TRY to pass as a guy, you're crossdressing. If you're still trying to pass as a woman, but feel more comfortable in a looser men's shirt or pants or whatever, you're not crossdressing.
Good point. I would say it's more about how you feel while you wear the clothes or your intention. If you feel like a girl in boys' clothes, then that's what it is. But if it makes you feel more like a boy, then that's crossdressing.

Kirchein, I agree with Lex's advice on changing one thing at a time in your wardrobe and giving your parents time to adjust. After a while, the whole look won't even phase them, but all at once you may end up arguing (and I'm guessing this is what you want to avoid). At least that's kind of how I did it with my family. Now nothing surprises them - well, actually, I think they'd fall off the chair if they saw me in a skirt. :eek:

Kirchein
06-16-2006, 10:33 AM
ok I´ll try, but they (my parents) dont let me most of the times to wear a suit, even a woman´s suit, but i´ll try.

and more questions to lex. so if u just like men´s clothes what r u then a woman who likes mens clothes? :rolleyes:

Agh tomorrow im going shopping with my mum, im sure she wont allow me to have a look at the guys stuff and of course i wont be able to buy it...but ill try ill try

well ppl thx again have a cup of tea and byez

Marlena Dahlstrom
06-19-2006, 12:58 AM
Actually, I'd say if you like wearing men's clothes because they're men's clothes, (as opposed to them being more comfortable, more durable, or whatever) then yes you're crossdressing. Likewise if you enjoy wearing an article of men's clothing that's got no functional equivalent for women -- like a jockstrap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jockstrap) or a dancebelt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_belt). Both of which would be just like a man wearing a bra (except in cases of gynecomastia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia)).

It's just that, as Lex said, society gives women more latitude to wear men's clothing so other people aren't necessarily going to see the former as crossdressing, although the latter probably would raise some eyebrows. And even if it is seen as crossdressing -- for example, a women wearing a men's suit (as opposed to a men's-styled suit) like in Marlene Dietrich's famous photo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlene_Dietrich) -- it's generally considered much more acceptable than MTF crossdressing because it's emulating "higher" status (given the still-differing status of men and women in most cultures).

Taylor105
06-22-2006, 11:30 AM
Boys clothes all the way. Everything I wear is guys brands. T-shirts are kinda unisex but my shorts are all Jnco and baggy and hang below the knees. I wear guys shoes too. I hate girl anything on my body!!! It makes me feel sick inside. And I can relate to the not wanting anyone to say you look pretty....I HATE THAT!! The closest thing I have ever gotten to anything other than a girly compliment was a kinda unisex compliment. You are so cute. Cute can be used for guys. Unfortunately people look at me and see a pre-teen boy. :( It may also have something to do with the way I dress too. This pic was taken today. I look totally twelve don't I? I wonder what I could do to look more like a grown up guy. Maybe nothing because my face is still too young. That and my voice which is not a girly pitch is right at the sound of a pre-teen boy. lol Taylor

Kirchein
06-22-2006, 04:00 PM
Boys clothes all the way. Everything I wear is guys brands. T-shirts are kinda unisex but my shorts are all Jnco and baggy and hang below the knees. I wear guys shoes too. I hate girl anything on my body!!! It makes me feel sick inside. And I can relate to the not wanting anyone to say you look pretty....I HATE THAT!! (...) That and my voice which is not a girly pitch is right at the sound of a pre-teen boy. lol Taylor

I agree with you Taylor. OOH maan i hate when i gotta wear a dress cos im going to a wedding and everybodys says: dear u look so pretty! (and i say to myself: i know im wearin a dress and i hate it PLEASE DONT REMIND IT TO ME!)...yes skirts...suk...aaaghhh!!!...

and another thing: u look like a guy and u also have a "guy
s voice"....ooo u´re so lucky. CONGRATULACIONES! :p



:D

Taylor105
06-22-2006, 06:23 PM
Thanks...I think that unless I ever start hormone therapy I am doomed to be the eternal pre-teen boy though. lol Taylor

p.s. I ain't worn a dress since 1995!! You couldn't pay me to put one on. I have never tried on a tux though. I would like to. :)

mistunderstood
06-22-2006, 07:28 PM
Same here I would love to were a tux but I never have anywere to were it.

Marlena Dahlstrom
06-22-2006, 08:56 PM
BUnfortunately people look at me and see a pre-teen boy. :( It may also have something to do with the way I dress too.

Yeah, that probably has a lot to do with it. It is a very skate-rat look.

Granted when you've got a teen-boy face it can be difficult to go too formal, because they you look like you're dressed up for graduation. But you could probably do the urban hipster look, which is best done by guys in their 20s anyway. (Sort of like mini-skirts, after 40 only a few exception people can pull it off.)

Taylor105
06-23-2006, 10:17 AM
Are you talking about the collared Old Navy madras looking button up shirts unbottoned and layered over a t-shirt? I dress that way at times too but I have no idea what the style is called. I think it's kinda preppy looking but that's how I dress when I have to go somewhere nice. Generally I wear baggy cargo khakis and Doc Martin boots with that outfit. Taylor

Freyja
06-23-2006, 11:11 AM
Actually, I'd say if you like wearing men's clothes because they're men's clothes,

I did that, but it was more a long phase I was going through... going from a child who preferred boy's clothes and liked being mistaken for a boy to using men's clothing as a way to avoid wimmins stuff... I was anti-feminine.

So you could say I grew out of my cross-dressing.

connie rotten
06-23-2006, 02:59 PM
Can we do a swap meet for clothing?

EricaCD
06-23-2006, 06:09 PM
Thanks...I think that unless I ever start hormone therapy I am doomed to be the eternal pre-teen boy though. lol Taylor

p.s. I ain't worn a dress since 1995!! You couldn't pay me to put one on. I have never tried on a tux though. I would like to. :)

Note to F2Ms: Wearing a tux is as much fun as it looks, and it's one of the few times I genuinely enjoy wearing men's clothing. Y'all should definitely give it a whirl if you haven't yet. FYI tuxedos are often available at Goodwill or secondhand stores, because men tend to outgrow them long before they wear out. So unless you are getting one to wear regularly, save yourself the multi-hundred dollar investment and use the savings for cufflinks, studs, cool ties, etc.

Cheers and sorry to hijack the thread. But then again I wasn't the first :D


Erica

Marlena Dahlstrom
06-24-2006, 02:08 AM
Taylor, I'll have to dig around and find some photos that'll give you an idea about what I'm talking about. Probably will be next week though, since it's Pride weekend (http://www.sfpride.org/) here in SF, so I'm going to be out and about for the next couple days.

Taylor105
06-24-2006, 08:33 AM
That's cool....I always wanted to go to San. F. cuz I know they have a huge gay population. They have a community in Dallas which is like an hour and a half from me but I have never ventured down there yet. Taylor