Pretty Boys????

[Karren H]

I was just wondering out loud here.....

As a test this week at work, I wore mascara everyday. A light coat of brown but it definately made my eye lashes pop, especially on the lower lashes!! So today I was in a meeting in the boardroom, in front of 25 peers and executives, I gave a 2 hour presentation with the mascara on!! Not one person said anything or even took a second glance. And during the meeting I noticed that many of the guys had great looking lashes!! And lips, some of the guys had better lips that most of the women in the room!! LOL

So do you think that its time that men can wear makeup? Not over the top, but subtle enough to bring out their good features? Just a random thought.....

Love Karren

[DanaJ]

Karren, I have been following your many threads lately, and wow - you have been out there doing it! But I have to ask, aren't you worried at all? I mean, it almost seems as if you want to get caught. It wasn't that long ago that you had very serious troubles at home http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15376 I mean, your wife was ready to leave you, and here you are dressing in the bathroom while she sleeps a few feet away, and now wearing makeup en drab at work. I see this escalating until you get caught......

Not trying to stop you, just concerned where this is leading?

[suzanne claire]

While makeup would certainly enhance the appearence of most men ,I do not especially in a corporate environment believe that it would give the proper impression ,implied by the role that a man especially an executive must play. This is a good suggestion but ahead of it`s time.:D

[Joy Carter]

Lip sticks are made for big gorgeous lips nothing else says sex appeal like nicely done lip color. I don't think men should do makeup unless they are cross gendered women do makeup to color their pale skin to smooth out wrinkles and make the eyes look bigger. Men have character in their faces no makeup needed mouths are broader eyes are well defined as well as the face.

[jenny_centaur]

The first two or three times I wore full makeup, I didn't realise I hadn't washed it all off using soap and water. Everyone noticed (my family, the barmaid in my local, my wormates), and they all said something like "have you been wearing makeup?". I could have died:o . But I honestly couldn't tell by looking in the mirror. I probably still can't tell when it's all off, but I make sure it is by using various proven techniques (Johnson's Baby Fluid primarily).

[Marla S]

I do wear makeup and black mascara occasionally in drab.
Nobody said something, so far. Only comment I got: "You look better today" :D

I think it is not a big deal anymore, though it might depend on the circumstances a bit.

[Kate Simmons]

Karren, I have been following your many threads lately, and wow - you have been out there doing it! But I have to ask, aren't you worried at all? I mean, it almost seems as if you want to get caught. It wasn't that long ago that you had very serious troubles at home http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15376 I mean, your wife was ready to leave you, and here you are dressing in the bathroom while she sleeps a few feet away, and now wearing makeup en drab at work. I see this escalating until you get caught......

Not trying to stop you, just concerned where this is leading?
No Dana, I know Karren(sort of), she's an okay guy..oops, I mean girl, but I'll let her answer that for herself. Sometimes I used to "flirt" with getting caught. In fact my wife caught me a couple of times coming home after my night time "outings". She just didn't talk to me for a few days after. As far as work, I did the same thing when I had my salary job. I used to wear "toned down" face powder, mascara, liner blush and lipstick. No one at work ever said a thing. Of course they didn't see my pantyhose, bra, panty, etc. underneath. I was in a better mood when I did that and seemed to get a lot more accomplished, some of my better days. Ericka

[DanaJ]

Ericka, I never said, or even intimated in any way that Karren was not "OK" - in fact, I thought I was quite clear as to my concern for her???

And if you read that link I put, Karren's woes were a LOT more than the wife "not talking to her for a few days after".......

So - again I say, I was just concerned that her path is leading to another confrontation with her wife. And that is fine, if that is what Karren wants....and thank you for letting her answer for herself :)

[DanaJ]

We can take this to PM if you rather, but I just wanted to state my concerns - I remember back a few months ago and what happened, and was really worried at the time for you. I would just hate to see a repeat :)

A fellow hockey player (25 years)

[KathrynW]

So that will all me the opertunity to cool my heals so to speak!! LOL Thanks again!!
Heels! not "heals"
H-E-E-L-S
HEELS! :tongueout

[jdotp75]

if its good enough for johnny depp, its good enough for me.

[TGMarla]

Clear mascara? "Migrated" to brown? You mean to say that you have five shades of mascara, one for every day leading up to Friday. And you have clear mascara? Why? What would be the point of clear mascara? Something's not right here.

Furthermore, if you're giving presentations in front of 25 of your peers in a boardroom, you must work at a somewhat good sized corporation. Why would any sane person risk their livelihood that way? What are you, nuts?

[Faye Emmette]

Back to the them eo fthe thread, I think lots of the people we see on the telly wear makeup anyway .. even the politicians have a 'makeover' before presenting.
And it seems Grecian 2000 is OK for those who wish to stay young forever.
Yep, I think bit by bit, men will increasingly use enhancements.

[KathrynW]

Clear mascara? "Migrated" to brown? You mean to say that you have five shades of mascara, one for every day leading up to Friday. And you have clear mascara? Why? What would be the point of clear mascara? Something's not right here.
Thank you Marla...you said exactly what I was also thinking...
Some pieces of this puzzle are not fitting at all...

Furthermore, if you're giving presentations in front of 25 of your peers in a boardroom, you must work at a somewhat good sized corporation. Why would any sane person risk their livelihood that way? What are you, nuts?
ditto...

[kathy gg]

Hey hon... I believe that if anyone did notice, well, you wont' find out about it. Only because even when us women gossip, we keep certain things among the women only. GUys wont' notice because unless they are also crossdressers, they won't be looking at another guy that closely. But us girls, well, we do notice those little things. Natural long eyelashes are one thing, but even the best quality mascara has a quality about it.

I too am not saying "don't do this" nor wanting to rain on your tranny parade, but as Dana said and others have stated, why take a chance like that when you don't really want to get caught?

I dont know maybe you wont' care if people talk about you at your job and maybe no one will use this or hold this against you.

And I hate to sound like I am lumping you with all 'men' out there...but alot of guys tend to have this invincible attitude ...... I guess that bravado is what makes more testosterone flow....but as the wife of a crossdresser who is actually pretty open in many circumstances with our life....I would not want my husband to be taking the "calculated risk" you are taking.

I know you did not ask for feedback...but well big mouth stikes again!

[Sally24]

I find alot of attitude in some of these posts. Concern I understand, but I think there's way much testosterone in the air tonight.

I'm not much of a risk taker, but hey I'm a easygoing type girl. Karren, you seem to be way out there sometimes, but I gather thats just you. Being an engineer, I'm sure you know the stats and the risks each time. Just double check those figures each time. I'm a technician and I spend my day cleaning up mistakes that engineers made when they didn't check for all the possible problems.

And yes, I have 3 or 4 shades of mascara too!

[KateW]

I don't understand the need for all this criticism, and saying things don't add up. Sometimes it feels like everyone is under investigation, as opposed to it being a forum to openly share our experiences. Just my two cents... don't slap me! :love:

[Rachel Morley]

So do you think that its time that men can wear makeup? Not over the top, but subtle enough to bring out their good features?

I actually do agree with this concept in theory.....but in reality, it's fraught with danger. It depends on what you mean by "subtle". I've never been to work with make up on (way too risky) but I wear a little of it as a feminized male fairly often and I don't get any comments.....but then whilest in the public at large no-one knows me so they'r not like to to comment on it.

I guess it's up to the the individual.

[Tamara Croft]

I have loads of different colours too ;) I have blue/black, black, brown, greeny/brown, lilac and jade ;) I also have clear mascara, but I use that when I've dyed my lashes :D

Please note, arguementave posts have/will be deleted.

[Kate Simmons]

Dana, Having been in the same "boat" previously as Karren in regard to wearing "toned down" makeup at work, I could see where she was coming from. You were concerned for her and I apologize if you thought I was making light of it. I know Karren well enough and she is ingenious enough to work in "stealth mode". I appreciate your concern Hon and looking back see that maybe I was taking a hell of a chance myself although sometimes when you are up high "en femme" as I was at that time, you maybe don't see the potential danger of what you may be risking. I appreciate you pointing that out and value you as one of my sisters. This is one of the great things about this forum. We look out for each other. Take care, Love, Ericka

[Joy Carter]

Karen I was outed at work details I have stated before in other posts just not in depth. It was not pleasant it got serious I was threatened I was assaulted (not seriously) I lost not only a job I fought to get but I job I loved doing. The rumor took on a life of it's own and my supervisors started to harass me with disciplinary's I got run down after three years of the constant bombardment of name calling things left on my desk. And one jerk confronting my mentally challenged son about it. My circle of friends is now closed to me I have only a couple that talk to me at all. I was lucky because I was able to collect a retirement on a disability that should have ended my carrier years ago.
Starting over at fifty five is not something I recommend. So I sit here and worry over you gurl as I have on others who are in trouble it's just my way. So take my advice get your self together and fly strait your flirting with danger here my friend.

Much Love And Respect Joy

[Maddie]

Hi girls

I use mascara and cover stick every day. I also use lose powder to set it.

I work infront of teenagers and have yet to get noticed.

when done right it enhanced your look

[DanaJ]

Hi girls

I use mascara and cover stick every day. I also use lose powder to set it.

I work infront of teenagers and have yet to get noticed.

when done right it enhanced your lookMaddie, with all due respect - are you sure that it is "yet to be noticed" or "yet to be commented to"? Teenage girls are the most observant of all, I am sure they know but haven't said anything (to you that is)....

[Girly Sara]

Hi girls!

In boring male mode, i often get black eyelash tints and eyebrow tints done to match my complexion which i like.

In my previous job i used to have french manicures with white tips with no adverse comment made (i was a manager there though) However, i'm a lil bit cautious in my new job and have only used clear nail varnish. Just finding my feet there, although comments have been made about my long nails.

I just wish we could all be who we want to be without feeling we're being judged. How many times have you heard this line, huh? lol

Have a great weekend, girls!

Sara xxxx

[rpservices1]

I think its a good idea its time for it

[Clare]

So do you think that its time that men can wear makeup? Not over the top, but subtle enough to bring out their good features? Just a random thought.....Yeah, why not? Times are changing, although not fast enough for us!

Consider the trendy so-called 'Metrosexual' man. He does everything femminine except dress in women's clothing! Another decade and I think a large proportion of men will be wearing makeup publically. Hasn't anyone noticed "men's makeup" in the department stores? The cosmetics companies are saying it's the next big boom for them (revenue and market share wise).

[Andrea]

This thread has actually reminded me to be careful at work with off the cuff comments.

its way too easy to drop yourself deep into the mire by ungarded comments which get the response 'what do you mean by that exactly ?' from the guys. Strange that similar comments mad to a GG colleague get no such comments, maybe GG's are more open to 'female' type comments or are just more open to views and opinions.

This particular instance was a female to male TS I know. He's a lovely bubbly guy and made a comment about him in the office. Male workmates mad sarcastic or comments such as 'do you fancy him then ?' GG colleague just said 'good for him' and 'whatever makes him happy'. Guess its the male need to be butch in front of others and wave the testosterone about. Glad I have a girly side to me to give me perspective.

As for male makeup etc I have noticed male hair remover is available now. Just wonder exactly what the 'avaerage' male is expected to do with this ? :D I can only assume its for the likes of swimmers, cyclists etc but VERY useful for CD'ers though as it save having to buy the ladies sort.

[Annesah]

I think conservative makeup is OK with most people. It covers a lot of facial sins especially on we older girls. If anyone comments; inform them that makeup was invented by ancient Egyptian MEN as the first form of sunscreen.
The girls were quick to highjack it from us but we own the patent!

[celeste26]

Exactly, quality makeup will enhance the look not standout to be noticed. Go back to the "Lazy Crossdresser" and read it!

[EricaCD]

On thread as originally posted:

Even a small amount of makeup on a guy, if detected, is going to result in (at best) a serious metrosexual label. If more than one form of makeup is detected (say, mascara AND blush, or nail polish, or whatever), the label is likely to be worse.

Most men may never notice. I sure wouldn't and as you may have suspected I'm a crossdresser :) However, women's observational abilities far surpass ours!

If you are found out, it's not like someone is going to come up to you and tell you! You may well be the last person to learn that your secret is in fact common knowledge.


On thread as it morphed:

Karren, I enjoy reading your posts and I delight at your evident joy en femme. I am relieved that you continue to take precautions against detection, as it sounds like the consequences in your case would not be good. I echo the general thread here, insofar as the message is this: We care too much about you NOT to remind you to be careful about how far you take it!

Erica

[KathrynW]

Maddie, with all due respect - are you sure that it is "yet to be noticed" or "yet to be commented to"? Teenage girls are the most observant of all, I am sure they know but haven't said anything (to you that is)....
Exactly...
I guarantee that people *have* noticed, but they may not have made comments to your face yet. You can almost bet that it is being talked about when you're not around. :rolleyes:

[Katrina]

Karen,
While I can appreciate everybody's concern for caution, I have to give you some props for breaking down some gender barriers. You go girl!

[Kristen Kelly]

Clear mascara? "Migrated" to brown? You mean to say that you have five shades of mascara, one for every day leading up to Friday. And you have clear mascara? Why? What would be the point of clear mascara? Something's not right here.

Furthermore, if you're giving presentations in front of 25 of your peers in a boardroom, you must work at a somewhat good sized corporation. Why would any sane person risk their livelihood that way? What are you, nuts?

Clear mascara worn under brown or black lengthens with out clumpimg and makes easier to remove colored mascara. Also works well to shape eye brows.
As to taking chances at work I have plucked my brow to fem shape, shaved my arms, worn clear nail polish with out even a comment, except for how nice my face cleared up. I had somewhat ruddy skin and with a intense cleaning routine and moisturizing have gotten my face to clear up, I need little foundation at all now when I dress.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Girlfriend, my question to you is are you ready to live with the consequences if you get caught in the men's room or people notice your make-up?

'Cuz to be honest, it seems like you're engaged some serious thrillseeking and/or trying to "accidentally" out yourself. (If I recognize the symptoms of the latter, it's because I found myself playing that game last year.) I told myself that I knew the risks and they were minimal -- but finally I had to accept that my personal reality distortion field was coloring my judgment.

It's true people can be pretty oblivious to changes in one's apparence. But OTOH, just because people don't say anything to you doesn't necessarily mean they don't notice. I've found out from people I showed my "Halloween" pictures to that they thought I looked far too "natural" for it to have been a one-time costume -- but none of them said anything at the time.

Believe me, I'm definitely for people being out and if you're willing to accept the consequences that's one thing. (I'm at the point where I don't care if I'm seen by the neighbors -- but that's after making a conscious decision about the issue.) But it seems like you're setting yourself for being outted on other people's terms, not your terms.

[allisonrn06]

Some one told me in a chatroom once that there was clear mascara available.I wouldn't mind trying that in public.Actually,I would like to dress completely in public,but right now that's just a dream.I hope to join a support group soon though,and they meet in public places that would be far from my home,which is the only way I could get away with it at present.

[sharifemme]

HMMMM!

Might want to check out Kevin Aucoin's book - "Making Faces" It gave me courage enough to try what Karren did with similar lack of reactions.

Sharifemme

[chantelle]

Karren, I have been following your many threads lately, and wow - you have been out there doing it! But I have to ask, aren't you worried at all? I mean, it almost seems as if you want to get caught. It wasn't that long ago that you had very serious troubles at home http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15376 I mean, your wife was ready to leave you, and here you are dressing in the bathroom while she sleeps a few feet away, and now wearing makeup en drab at work. I see this escalating until you get caught......

Not trying to stop you, just concerned where this is leading?

It is good that u are concerned for her, yet we are on a journey called life and it strikes me as great that she is pushing her boundries. Let her go that extra step. Most of us dont have the courage to do that yet.:tongueout

[DanaJ]

chantelle - and yet, where will you be if (or when) Karren gets caught and things go to pieces? Writing on an Internet forum, saying "You go girl".... so while you don't have the courage to do it (neither do I actually), you are going to push someone else into that?

[Karren H]

Girlfriend, my question to you is are you ready to live with the consequences if you get caught in the men's room or people notice your make-up?

'Cuz to be honest, it seems like you're engaged some serious thrillseeking and/or trying to "accidentally" out yourself. (If I recognize the symptoms of the latter, it's because I found myself playing that game last year.) I told myself that I knew the risks and they were minimal -- but finally I had to accept that my personal reality distortion field was coloring my judgment.

It's true people can be pretty oblivious to changes in one's apparence. But OTOH, just because people don't say anything to you doesn't necessarily mean they don't notice. I've found out from people I showed my "Halloween" pictures to that they thought I looked far too "natural" for it to have been a one-time costume -- but none of them said anything at the time.

Believe me, I'm definitely for people being out and if you're willing to accept the consequences that's one thing. (I'm at the point where I don't care if I'm seen by the neighbors -- but that's after making a conscious decision about the issue.) But it seems like you're setting yourself for being outted on other people's terms, not your terms.

Darla....I mean Marlena... You are always the voice of reason and funny, just before I read your post, the wife and I were watching a Good Morning America piece on some rich chick in Texas who was adicted to shop lifting and "risked it all" although she could afford to buy anything.... Made me think about the conciquences of being outed and although you know I'm not going to stop crosdressing, I'm promise to be more careful!!!! And I guess the thrill is getting away with it, not the thrill of getting caught....so your right on that account!!!

And I'll call you and Emily and get you two to pre-approve all future events!!! LOL

Love Karren

[viccy]

I sure do hope one day that would be excepted I for one would wear it though not at work (construction supervisor) oh very masculin.

just sutle enough so one would have to look you straight in the face to notice

love viccy
:love:

[Julia Cross]

For what it's worth, i agree with Dana. Not all is being said and why on earth would you risk your career and your personal life which I am sure a lose of career would hurt.

As all crossdressers, I too want to express myself and struggle with it everyday. But I do understand my lot in life, I'm born a man, I look like a man, people deal with me as a man and I need to look like a man at work. Sure I wish I could wear makeup and prrettier things, but my lot in life is male, at work I am pretty much male, after hours and at home it's my personal business.

I am puzzled at how many here are willing to risk their careers and risk hurting their spouses and loved ones by thinking onbly of themselves and not of the consequences some of the more extreme actions may cause.

Julia

[JoAnnDallas]

Don't foreget almost everyone you see on a news cast is wearing makeup to some degree. For men it is mainly foundation, blush, powder and even lipstick. It's not enough to take away from thier masculain features, but does highlights thier face.

Remember actors always ware makeup, even John Wayne wore makeup LOL

[chantelle]

chantelle - and yet, where will you be if (or when) Karren gets caught and things go to pieces? Writing on an Internet forum, saying "You go girl".... so while you don't have the courage to do it (neither do I actually), you are going to push someone else into that?

I am a counsillor and know that people fear taking the steps to overcome the
conditions that they have in live. I simply want her to be happy as she is the mistress of her own destiny. And last time I checked that work is on job performance basis not on how made up u are. Unless the rules over there is different than here.

Just a thought.
Love
chantelle.:hugs:

[Maria-Christina]

I wore tights under my trousers instead of socks last year to work. A bad move. Some of my female colleagues noticed and remarked. I was not going to lie to them. After I told them it spread like wild fire. My boss told me I should keep my private life outside the office.

Maria

[Caitlintgsd]

I think that it may kind of risky. To the best of my knowledge (could be wrong on this) Pennsylvania doesn't have any laws regarding discrimination in regards to gender. I left my job which was for a Pennsylvania company at the beginning of this year. Now I'm working for a company out of NJ. I believe that NJ is at least working on gender laws if they're not in place already.

[Julia Cross]

I think wearing tights under your trousers is quite different from wearing makeup. While ideally both should be totally acceptable, I can see why an employer would be hesitant about their male employees wearing makeup, whereas tights are really not that noticeable.

I think it is important to remember that employers also have rights. Don't forget, it is theit business and their neck that's on the line at the bank if things go poorly.

I am happy to have a good job and would dream of wearing makeup to work, I can wait for those things until I get home.

Julia

[Tina Dixon]

Not going to say a lot because I don't car for any fighting or scratching but you girls have been pretty nice though, but I think Karren knows her job better than any one here and what she can get a way with so what the hell go for it.

[KathrynW]

but I think Karren knows her job better than any one here and what she can get a way with so what the hell go for it.
I guess that makes sense...
It's just a bit bizarre to see all these people cheering from the sidelines "You Go Girl!" when they don't have to deal with any of the consequences. :p

[Karren H]

I guess that makes sense...
It's just a bit bizarre to see all these people cheering from the sidelines "You Go Girl!" when they don't have to deal with any of the consequences. :p

Yeah, it is strange that most fall into either "Go Go Go" or your "Out Of Control". And doesn't seem to be many in between, but life is all about balance and I'll admit that I do push it, maybe more than I should. So it's good to hear both sides and I think I'll pull back a bit, didn't wear mascara all day today!!! hehehe More like I didn't have time....Maybe every other day??

And I'm the girl who while enfemme has passed coworkers in the parking lot while on a business trips...they had no clue either. Or leaves the hotel room dressed with coworkers in adjacent rooms..... So risk is a part of our "hobby" and I think that risk can be managed in our (my) favor!!

And about the discrimination, we have had 2 coal miners have sex changes in our company and although everyone still looks back on it jokeingly, they didn't loose their jobs over it. I've been on trips where the miner's sex change topic came up and a few VPs were hooting it up while out in the car I had a suitcase full of female clothing!!!! Ekkkkkkkk Talk about an uncomfortable feeling!

All in all I guess I got have to continue to sucessfully live in both worlds!!! Thanks for everyones concerns....


Love Karren

[Kate Simmons]

Karren, Pushing the envelope is good but not for the faint of heart as we both know. I must say however, it can be a cause for concern. We've both done the thing with the makeup at work but what Dana said made a lot of sense. We could be risking a lot. I know you usually think things out but am asking you(and everyone else) to be careful. The reason being we all love you so much. Take care, Ericka Kay Richards

[MsJanessa]

Back to the them eo fthe thread, I think lots of the people we see on the telly wear makeup anyway .. even the politicians have a 'makeover' before presenting.
And it seems Grecian 2000 is OK for those who wish to stay young forever.
Yep, I think bit by bit, men will increasingly use enhancements.
I've been involved in employment law most of my career as a lawyer and never heard of anybody (male or female) being fired for wearing mascara---used to hear of people being canned for x-dressing on the job(now illegal to discrimate by firing x-dressers in the state of Maine) but not for wearing mascara---probably would be the object of some office gossip etc if outed though----sounds like you either don't care or may be engaging in flights of fantasy---either way have fun and have an nice day.