Not the store for you

[lynnrichards]

I had a very unexpected and upsetting experience a few days ago. Since it’s still bothering me, I thought I’d describe what happened to me and ask for responses from others.

While dressed as a man, in tee shirt and jeans, I stopped into a vintage clothing store. This store is in a trendy, downtown Philadelphia neighborhood. When I entered the store, I noticed that the only other customer in the store was just entering a dressing room. Almost before I began looking at dresses on a rack, I was startled by the saleswoman, who asked in a rather shrill tone, “Are you looking for a gift for someone”? I said “Not really. I just like these kinds of clothes”. She then said “I don’t think this is the store for you” in a tone that seemed unfriendly, to say the least. I said “Why? Is it because of sizes?” She said “No. I’m not comfortable having you here and neither is my customer”!

I was a little shocked by this encounter, but intimidated too. I simply said “OK” and left. Outside the store, I felt so bad, powerless and degraded. My feelings were really hurt and I didn’t know how to respond. So I’m asking for comments from others. Have any of you had a similar encounter? How would you have handled this incident?

Lynn

[TGMarla]

That's no way to conduct business. I'd have told her that my business is my own, not hers, and that as an outfit that is open to the public, I'd do as I pleased. I'd have also asked if she was the owner or an employee.

[Tracy_Victoria]

Write to the manager, or the companies head office, most stores have policies on transgender shoppers, and after all, you were not even dressed, you could have been buying for anyone!!!

Most companies are more interested in a sale over who's wearing there clothes and why, this sales lady was blunt, rude, and totally out of touch with todays world, hence I'd complain, if it happned to me!!

good luck

[Kate Simmons]

Never had that problem Lynn either as Richard or Ericka. Evidently that person must make enough money and can afford to be selective. Most store owners jump at a sale as it's money in their pocket. What the person does with the goods is their business whether they want to wear the stuff, give it to someone or rip it up and throw it in the garbage. A sale is a sale in my opinion. Any "attitude" is bad for business. Most go by the slogan that the customer is always right, regardless of who that customer may be. Ericka

[ShortSkirt]

Sounds to me like she was scared. People are scared of what they dont understand. I think I would have had a little talk with her.:happy:

[sierracd6]

I agree with marla.........It is none of her beezwaxx...I would probably feel the same as you did at first though, unless I have had a couple of cocktails in me....then I would of wanted to talk to the manager

[ava_bruna]

Hi Lynn, May I just say if it was me I would never in the first place put myself in that situration. you left yourself wide open for that, im sorry to say. but that maybe you, I speak for myself and feel somewhat awarkward even after all the year's ive been shoping by myself, first off, I feel alright going into ANY of the store's and if someone say's something to me like she did to you, id answer yes, im looking for a gift, (well? ) I go in looking for a bra or panties and the Coat factory has a large table with closeout sale's very cheap but rather then look over panties with other women i'll go to the main rack, at least I can see what I want right off with out pawring them over.Hon? I feel you asked for it, it's really to bad the girl had to treat you like that, but all you had to say was YES it's a gift. sorry if I sound so crude but ive been there too and we have to learn by our mistake's. good luck Lynnn. Huggie's, Ava.

Maria? I agree with you and feel the same but why if someone feel's unconfortable about thenselfs get into that kind of situration? if I was as good looking as the sales girl or better id give her heck too but IF I WAS DRESSED, Lynn wasnt well I do hope you dont think bad of me, Im not use to posting in forums but I just had to this time. thank's,huggie's, Avas.

[~Kitty GG~]

You have the right to buy whatever you want for whomever you want.

That's just ridiculous to say you asked to be treated poorly.

If I went to buy a motorcycle and the salesman asked me if it was for me.. should I lie and say its for a man??? We used to have to face macho cars salesmen who thought they could take us women for a ride. And if we all had meekly slunk away or lied and said its for a man.. then this would still be happening to us today.

I would hope that in your situation I'd have told her I didn't give a damn if she was comfortable.. this is her job. And unless she found a way to toss me out she'd have been the one feeling intimidated. Unfortunately I'd probably have been flustered and left. Cuz of course you weren't expecting it and so weren't emotionally prepared.

Big hugs to you for having to suffer such an indignity!

Once I was home, I'd take some steps to right the situation. If the law says all shops must sell to you.. I'd contact someone about discrimination. If the law there is that a shop OWNER has the right to refuse to serve certain people.. I'd find out if the person who was so rude to me is the owner or just an employee. And I'd let the owner know that this salesperson was rude.

It WAS NOT your fault. And this issue should be addressed. We all have the right to be proud of ourselves.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Karren H]

If she wasn't the owner I would asked her name and have her give you the owners name and address!!
And I think I'd wait a week or so and go back in and try again!! Tell her it is a gift, for yourself!!! hehehe

Love Karren

[Joy Carter]

J C Pennys, tried to buy panties "Oh that stuff is for women not men" (younger sales staff) jeering raised voices etc etc etc I stood my ground and an older woman helped me with my choices. We ended up talking about things other than the purchase it was a nice encounter after the she devils were put in their place. Never has happened since but now I buy on line. I can hear them now at the shipping department "Hey that guy from Podunk is ordering more black panties" LOL. :D

[Jennaie]

Interesting, I don't know how I might have responded but I do know that I would have ask who owned the store. After being treated in such a way, I would not have spent my money there anyway, unless the store owner had the girl apologize to me and ask me what she might be albe to do to help me. Now that I would enjoy.

Joy:

I have had mixed experiences with JC Pennys, I won't even shop at the one closest to me. But the one eight miles away has always treated me wonderfully. I don't know why. I do find it interesting that it was the older salesperson who helped you. For me, it's' usually the younger ones that I find are more accepting.

[Jillian310]

Opposite experience ~ whenever I chat the clerks up in the makeup departments en drab in the larger department stores, they all want to sell me a make over and their lines of cosmetics.

[trannie T]

I've always had positive experiences while shopping. That store obviously does not want, need nor deserve your business. Don't have anything more to do with them until their 'Going Out of Business' sale.

[Joy Carter]

Is there such a thing as a dress Nazi ? LOL :p

[Methos]

I agree I would have asked if she was the owner and if not would have asked for the owners name and number. Most places don't care who buys as long as they make the sale

[Alayna]

I'm sorry you had to go through that Lynn. Something like that is very out of the ordinary, so don't take it personally. I wish there was a formula for staying away from certain kinds of shops, but I've had good and bad experiences at all kinds. Don't get discouraged - you might go into a similar boutique another time and have the time of your life!

[Lawren]

I would tell everyone I know not to shop shop there. She's not the kind of person who could earn my respect or business.

[Megan_Renee]

You could always go back and just make her life miserable... go on a tirade... Philidelphia is a pretty liberal city, so I'm sure you could get some people to join you in making her life terrible...

(evil grin)

Megan

[Butterfly Bill]

I've had something like that happen to me once in 12 years of shopping en femme. Take your money and give it to someone else more encouraging and send your friends there. That's how capitalism/free enterprise works.

[Wombat]

You did the right thing Lynn. Bigotry or lack of understanding and empathy is always upsetting and feeling the way you did is perfectly understandable, however, there is nothing to beat yourself up about in it. The problem is all in the sale's assistant, not in you. So give yourself a hug and don't go back.

We are engaged in a activity that upsets and worries a lot of people and to be honest, it's not at all relelvant whether that upset or worry is reasonable or not. A public situation is not the place to go correcting someone's misconceptions ... usually. While other people don't have the right to go forcing their issues onto us (Lynn's sales assistant behaved outrageously), we don't have the right to do it either. I think we need to be aware of that when we venture outside the house - the rest of the world has the right to be treated with the same sensitivity that we wish for ourselves.

Reacting with angry words or actions, as suggested by some of the posters above me, is not treating the shop with any sort of respect. Sure, the shop asssistant failed to treat Lynn with any respect, but I don't see that as an excuse for behaving the same way.

If the shop was part of a chain or large company, and you really wanted to shop there again, having a quiet word with the manager is probably worth it. If it's a small place, you'll probably find the woman you dealt with is owner. You could try to have a quiet chat with her and that might work, but you'd have to be very interested in buying from that shop to make it worth it.

Wombat

[crusadergirl]

Lynn I have never had anything bad to me when i buy stuff normallyno one says anything to me. She was wrong for what she did i would told her i don't care i will look at what i want so leave me alone. The only theing a sales clerk has said to me is who are u buying it for and i told them i'm buying them for you. You have a great day don't worry about it.

[btmgrl6]

i have had fun great shopping at JC Pennys. I buy my make-up there (dermablend)
And the girls at the cosmetic counter are always friendly and helpful.
As for the Vintage clothing store. I would have made a scene. Had I been in drab,I would have left and returned en femme. I would have insisted on trying on clothes....then left without buying anything at all.

Steph

[jenni_xx]

I've never experienced what you experienced here lynn, but if I had, I think my response would be to say that I accept and understand the reason why my presence could make her and the other customer feel uncomfortable, apologise, and walk out of the store. I say this because acceptance has to work both ways. I would never react negatively towards another person just because they couldn't accept my own ideals, that would pretty much make ME a bigot, and I do fully accept that a fraction of the population will never understand, or even want to understand the nature of cross-dressing. And I'm absolutely fine with that. In a strange way, I don't want us cross-dressers to be fully accepted within the mainstream. A lot of the (for want of a better word) excitement out of cross-dressing and/or going shopping for our female selves is (I believe) specifically derived from the sense of doing something that goes against what is expected of us because of our outward-gender-identity. The buzz that I get when I walk into a shop not knowing how I will be received by the sales assistant is only bettered by the wonderful feeling I get when that sales assistant makes it clear that she fully accepts me and my intentions for wanting to shop there. Those feelings wouldn't exist if I knew before hand that everyone, and I mean everyone, was fully accepting of cross-dressers. In short, I guess what I am saying is that those people who are not accepting of my cross-dressing play just as big a part in defining who I am and how I feel as those who are acceptive do.

Also, align your negative experience in the shop with your other experiences in life more generally, for example telling your partner. Someone who replied here said that they would make this sales assistants life in the shop a misery, and tell everyone else not to shop in the store. That kind of response is one that I find disheartening to be honest. If my partner reacted in the same way (i.e. negatively) when I told her, I would most definitely not respond by making her life with me a misery, and I would most definitely not respond by telling everyone else not to accept her. Plus, how can I honestly expect people to blanketly accept my way of life when I am not prepared to accept any reservations they may hold through their own ideals? I would be guilty of reverse bigotry if I blanketly rejected anyone who had a problem with my cross-dressing.

In short, although this experience is upsetting, no doubt about that, I think you should look at it in the bigger picture. Don't dwell on it. Accept that it may/will happen from time to time, and compare it with all the positive experiences you may/will have (have had) from other people in your life. Those are the ones we should all cling on to. Those are the ones we should be thankful for. All the negative experiences should do is make us realise and fully appreciate the reasons why we should be thankful about the positive ones. All those people who have given us those negative experiences should achieve is to make us grab tighter onto those people who have given us the positive experiences.

This is why I said I would have apologised to the sales assistant and walked out. She clearly does have issues with cross-dressing, and if I reacted in a negative way back to her, all I would achieve is to compound those issues. Apologising and walking away at least shows her that I am able to accept her reasons for not wanting me there, and I like to think that my acceptance of her and her request could perhaps function to make her look at me (and who knows, maybe crossdressers more generally) a little differently.

hugs
jenni
xxx

[Helen MC]

1 You have nothing to apologise to the shop assistant for! As the Homosexuals are "Proud to be Gay" we ought to be equally proud to be CD!

2 Never go there again! There is no point in writing to them to complain. All you will do is get a duplicated "Form" letter telling you how much they value every customer, how they are an "Equal Opportunity" Enterprise etc, but all insincere chaff. Hit them where it hurts, in the till, in their bank balance, and ultimately if they are a company, in their shareholders (stockholders) pockets.

When I used to shop in stores, (always in drab) I never encountered any such response. If approached by an Assistant I either politely declined her help or might have asked if that garment was avilable in a suitable size etc. No doubt she assumed it was for my wife, G/F, female friend or relative etc. Frankly I couldn't care less what she thought as long as she kept any adverse thoughts to herself and I am glad to say they always did.

Nowadays I use the internet to do over 90% of my shopping and before the WWW I used mail order catalogues as such problems simply do not occur with those methods of purchase.

[Jean GG]

Lynn...if it helps you at all...it can happen to anyone!!! Remember Julia Roberts and Richard Gere in "Pretty Woman"???

I have walked into Madison Avenue shops looking like a million bucks and eveyone was so smily and friendly...it sickened me. I have walked into the same shops looking like an East Village biker and...I got attitudes like yours (albeit...I was not asked to leave).

Take heart...the girl was definitely immature...albeit I would have said "PERHAPS" when asked if I was looking for a gift OR, I would have asked her "WHY" when told I made someone uncomfortable and finally I would have told her "I am an attorney, I know my rights and if you are not careful I will slap a lawsuit on you!!!"

Once I took a homeless man in a Madison Avenue Pharmacy and right away he was told to leave. I was dressed extremely elegant, with a hat and all. I turned around and said that he was with me! YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE SHOCKED LOOK IN PEOPLE'S FACES!!! I had met him begging on the street and instead of giving him money, I offered to buy him a meal. He then looked at me and said that what he really needed where some toiletries because he had a job prospect and needed to clean himself up. He ended up buying shaving cream, razors, band aids etc...never took advantage of my offer. THOSE PEOPLE IN THE SHOP CONTINUED TO BE SOOO SHOCKED AFTER HE LEFT AND, I HOPE, THEY LEARNED A BIG LESSON!

Lastly...if you don't feel any better soon...GO BACK...and tell her that her insolence is not acceptable! But frankly, at this stage...you probably would be doing her a big favor! jean

[lynnrichards]

I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. Your responses have comforted me and enabled me to put this incident into better perspective. It’s great to have a forum like this to discuss issues of concern to us. Thanks again.

Lynn

[aprilgirl]

I'm sure the experience was upsetting but you did the right thing by taking the high road ...just shrug it off.I'm sensitive by nature and the last thing I would want to do is make someone uncomfortable....whether they are rational or not.While shopping in drab I've never had that reaction though I've always browsed under the ruse of shopping for someone else..its nobody's business afterall.

A majority of my shopping sprees en femme have been incident free....though I normally call the stores prior to preview the level of acceptance.

[ZoeGurl]

Not that I condone the store associate's attitude but unfortunately every store you walk into is private property. They have the right to kick out whoever they like though that power is seldom used by more intelligent retailers. It's all about the "benjamins" after all. Intelligent retailers don't give a rat's hinder what you do with the products so long as you buy them. Unfortunately most stores hire undisciplined and often ignorant children to staff them. Sometimes it's unavoidable, as it is where I work. We have no choice. They're the only ones filling out applications. Ugh... But enough about me. I think the salesperson's actions were deplorable.

Zoe

[Adrienne Heels]

Lynn, I think you handled this in the right way. There are plenty of other stores out there which are more understanding of us.

[Phoebe Reece]

My shopping experiences have always been good - especially when dressed femme. Just this past Friday afternoon I was in a local Dillards department store (dressed enfemme in a very business like skirtsuit). All the sales staff I encountered were very helpful and spoke to me in a very friendly manner. One girl in particular in the women's dresses came over to me and mentioned that she hadn't seen me in awhile (she had waited on me a few months earlier and helped pick out some nice things). A girl in the cosmetics area had me sample some hand lotion (my hands were rather dry) and we talked a bit. Another one helped me search the hosiery department when I was looking for a particular style of pantyhose. It has been my experience that the more expensive the store, the better you will be treated - especially if you are there dressed enfemme.