Civil Rights -n-Stuff

[mudanjel]

Hi Ladies :D

Ya' know how many/oodles of you are secreted from your WIFE and decry your loss of humanistic rights ?? :evilbegon

If you're way in the closet and wondering whether to come out or not, be prepared to deal with the chaos that will result when you finally tell the truth.


But I digress. I just want to set everything else aside and address the one issue of stripping your mate of the basic right to make an informed decision about her future and yes, dreams.


Does your compulsion trump her right? Of course not, but you do it anyway and justify the hell out of it.

My learned advice to anyone yearning to come out of the closet is to be on your knees, splitting hairs if you decide to make the plunge.

[Deborah]

I don't have an SO so this thread doesn't apply to me, but i must say nice post. :straightface: Great tact and a beautiful way to show your acceptance of all of us on the board. :rolleyes:
You could have done it in a nicer way though.

However, i do agree that it is not very nice to hide things from your wife.

[mudanjel]

I don't have an SO so this thread doesn't apply to me, but i must say nice post. :straightface: Great tact and a beautiful way to show your acceptance of all of us on the board. :rolleyes:
You could have done it in a nicer way though.

However, i do agree that it is not very nice to hide things from your wife.

It's a hard-life issue not deserving to be hidden behind pink slips. Somebody has to speak up.

[FionaAlexis]

But I digress. I just want to set everything else aside and address the one issue of stripping your mate of the basic right to make an informed decision about her future and yes, dreams.


Does your compulsion trump her right? Of course not, but you do it anyway and justify the hell out of it.

My learned advice to anyone yearning to come out of the closet is to be on your knees, splitting hairs if you decide to make the plunge.


Mmmm? we got trouble! Right here in River City - it starts with "D" an' it rhymes with "P" and it stands for DEEEEception!

I appreciate that you must be pretty upset right now. And I'm sure a lot here will hear your message loud and clear. But maybe your depressing message is that it's all bit too late!

Because I assume when you talk about 'informed decision' you mean prior to marriage or prior to becoming committed to a relationship. I agree with you - unfortunately sometimes we are struggling to come to terms with who we are. And maybe 'being in love' pushes this other CD/TG stuff into the background - or maybe they persuade themselves their CD-ing will go away now. Dunno? Not really been there.

Fiona xx

[Faye Emmette]

My wife of 17 years never knew. We were happy ( and after 18 years apart, still good mates/friends). I fixed the washing machine, painted the house that I bought from my wages, mowed the lawn etc and raised two good children with her.
My kids are grown up and I have my secret and everyone's happy.
As I've stated in previous posts, some of the Loves of my life have known and some haven't. I knew some would understand and I knew some wouldn't.
No big deal.

[GypsyKaren]

I'm not going to try and justify the fact that we keep such a big secret from our wives, waiting until after the commitments are made to finally tell the truth. We all had our reasons, and this has already been well debated here. I know it was wrong in a big way, and I still apologize to my wife for it.

That being said, we ALL have skeletons in our closets that we ALL try to keep from our loved ones. Some may not be as serious an issue as being a tranny, but you know, some are a hell of a lot worse. GGs do it, we do it, everybody but the Saints do it, it's a part of life. After I came out to my wife, she let me in on a big secret that she had been keeping from me too. It may not as been a big a deal as what I told her, but it was a biggie none the less. My reaction? After the initial suprise, I got over it real quick and moved on. The past is past, let's deal with the now and the future.

I'm not trying to trivialize this, it is a big thing to keep from someone, and it's wrong to do so. But you know, it's not like we're fessing up to being Nazi war criminals or the rulers of a kiddie porn empire, we're just finally opening up a big part of our inner selves. We're still nice people (for the most part), and we're still human beings, the same they fell in love with in the first place. The bottom line is this; maybe you did get dealt a bad hand, but either play it or get new cards, just don't complain about it forever.

Karen

[mudanjel]

...for your thoughtful replies. I was pretty mad when I wrote that post (ya' think ?? :bonk:

My husband's secret was that he was a functioning porn/meth addict. Then, when he convinced me to save our marriage and trust him again two years later, he turned out to have a girlfriend. (I ferreted all this stuff out myself...and if you end up going to a marriage counselor, I can say from experience make sure the one you pick is qualified and not just parroting textbook stuff or it will make matters worse.)

I'm not looking for sympathy....I feel sorry for myself enough already. (heh-heh.) My point is how much Deep Secrets can hurt...the effects can last for years. I empathisize with the position that many of you are in by being/staying in the closet....after all, what the hell are you supposed to do at this late date??

If you do decide to come out of the closet, I would not be worrying about whether you'll be able to continue dressing or not, or whether you'll be accepted, etc. I would be down on my hands and knees begging for forgiveness, not for being a CD, but for playing your wife for being the biggest dumbass that ever walked the face of the earth because I guarantee you, that's just one of the many things that she's going to feel.

As for calling peeps "moron"s in my original post (which has been edited out), I apologize for that and for alienating any new friends I've met. (Be prepared though, for being called every name in the book, unless your wife is a saint.)

And Karen, God knows I've tried to move on past exposing deep secrets, but it's the hardest struggle I've ever had!!

[TGMarla]

I didn't tell my wife before I married her. I felt she simply would not accept it. That did not diminish my love for her. And, as it turns out, I was right. No harm, no foul, right? What she didn't know never would have hurt her at all had she never known. That is a fact, and is not subject to debate.

That said, she did find out. There is a saying that a secret is only safe between two people if one of them is dead. In a nutshell, a secret such as this is very difficult to keep. None of us are perfect, and we make mistakes. It was a mistake that kept me from telling her up front. It was more mistakes that leaked my secret to her. I finally came completely clean with her, and she doesn't want anything to do with it. Don't ask, don't tell.

I wasn't trying to play with her future. My reasons for marrying her were genuine and true. I also never wished to hurt her in any way. In the grand scheme of things, crossdressing is something over which people make way too big a deal. It's actually a little thing when you think about it. It doesn't make me a bad person, or less of a man, for that matter. My only reasons for hiding it are because of societal stigmas. It is, for some reason, not accepted. Therefore, I told no one.

All in all, I regret nothing. I was correct in my reasoning when I decided not to tell her before I married her. I figured she would not accept it, and I was right. I also do not regret the fact that I crossdress. I don't regret that she now knows, either. It is what it is. I love my wife, and she loves me, but you cannot force a person to change. It must come from within them. They must want to change. She does not wish to change, and neither do I. Yet, it works for us. Deal with it.

[Kimberley]

Hon, I am so sorry you have had to go through this kind of garbage. It isnt fair and you have every right to be angered. I think anyone, male or female would be.

I am out to my wife (for about 10 yrs now) who cannot accept my gender issues in any way. It has made my life a living hell and despite the honesty may still very well end the marriage. Sad but true. I also understand because it does go to her core values. I guess this is why I am so adamant about people being up front at the beginning because down the road it can be a mess.

You have my best wishes and thoughts. You are a special lady and dont ever lose sight of the fact that probably about 4000 of us love you to bits.

Hugs.
Kimberley.

[Faye Emmette]

Mud Angel, thanks for the more conciliatory post explaining the details of your ire. The first post tended to sound like you were shouting and people tend to ignore shouters.
You sound like a very nice person who has had the rough end of the pineapple and trust has been severely abused in your life.
As Marla says, the crossdresing doesn't diminish our Love for our wives or Loves, it's just so hard to let it be known lest we lose that Love for an un necessary reason.
Thanks for the advice though and a genuine response from a Lady.
XX
F.

[Julie Avery]

I have an s.o., CherGG, who didn't know that I crossdress when we began living together. I am most certainly not on my knees, nor splitting hairs. We are quite happy together.

We would not be happy together in any moment when she tried to make me feel indebted to her for my not having disclosed my crossdressing before we met. That's a power play, it would poison the best relationship on earth.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

boy oh boy..girl oh girl??? as some of you know, we are getting divorced

i didnt tell my wife...i think back to that alot, and i feel alot of guilt but i also feel i'm being very honest when i say at the time i didnt think it was going to be a big deal... i happen to like to smell my feet(gross???? i know)...guess what i didnt share that with my wife either...i am not trying to rationalize or belittle what crossdressing behavior does to a marriage...but i think we all enter into marraiges trying to put our best foot forward

in fact...i didnt crossdress for almost 10yrs!!.. i felt urges and fantasized but i really wasnt thinking it had anything to do with the marriage..

i was so clueless that when we started to have marital problems i came out to her that i liked to dress...i htought it might bring us closer together...maybe the dumbest thing i ever did

but i was thinking its simply something i like to do.
i loved the heck out of her..treated her wonderfully, was a great father and provider..but to her something was missing...now looking back i know that something was me..there's an emptiness in my relationship with her and its at least partially because of my urges...

anyway..very unfair to her..i feel terrible but what can i do..i have 2 beautiful kids and they wouldnt be around...

btw..to be fair to me...my wife lives a pretty great life...no job, tennis, golf, cars, great house, spa trips...no complaints from her for 15 yrs...all of sudden boom.....so it goes both ways...she got alot out of our marraige

so i come out that knowing what i know today, you just gotta give her a chance to decide..for those of us that its too late, what would you have us do??

[RenaCD]

I'm not going to try and justify the fact that we keep such a big secret from our wives, waiting until after the commitments are made to finally tell the truth. We all had our reasons, and this has already been well debated here. I know it was wrong in a big way, and I still apologize to my wife for it.

That being said, we ALL have skeletons in our closets that we ALL try to keep from our loved ones. Some may not be as serious an issue as being a tranny, but you know, some are a hell of a lot worse. GGs do it, we do it, everybody but the Saints do it, it's a part of life. After I came out to my wife, she let me in on a big secret that she had been keeping from me too. It may not as been a big a deal as what I told her, but it was a biggie none the less. My reaction? After the initial suprise, I got over it real quick and moved on. The past is past, let's deal with the now and the future.

I'm not trying to trivialize this, it is a big thing to keep from someone, and it's wrong to do so. But you know, it's not like we're fessing up to being Nazi war criminals or the rulers of a kiddie porn empire, we're just finally opening up a big part of our inner selves. We're still nice people (for the most part), and we're still human beings, the same they fell in love with in the first place. The bottom line is this; maybe you did get dealt a bad hand, but either play it or get new cards, just don't complain about it forever.

Karen

God I Love the ways this Girl Thinks! Hugs GK :hugs:
O and Yeah my wife is one of Those Saints, They're out There! :love:
Lilly Good Thread Dear Friend! Makes one Appreciate What you've Got!:thumbsup:
Hugs Rena

[Scotty]

This post is not sugar coated and no offense is meant to anyone, but this is my view of how things are here.....It might be a shocker but the key word she said was "meth".

With meth, the users have no way out - it's either sit in jail and come down from it or take a court ordered treatment plan, or destroy your life and veryone around you. Sure, a divorce might solve the problem until a meth addict breaks in and steals the TV, cash, whatever else to support the habit - and it HAPPENS. It happens every day here and we have a pretty low crime rate except for the meth issues.

Our state is one of the largest meth producers and I've seen businessmen go from making 100k a year to being homeless in less than a year.

I have sympathy for the people that get on meth, but once on it I do not - they either have to say "Help me" or you have to leave them alone......

So if you still love him and he's still doing it - you need to take a VERY hard stance, no sugar coating, nothing - and I'm not sure an ultimatum would work but might go the opposite direction.....
Its going to be a LONG hard road. Sure, blame the girlfriend on the meth if you want to work it out with him but you need to do something that will absolutely get him off of it - he will thank you forever.....

That's some pretty nasty crap. I once saw a guy arrested that was 29 years old, I was guessing his age between 59 and 65.

The ball is in your court actually, divorcing him may result in burglary to your house if he's a hard core addict, or worse (?)
Ratting him out might get him in jail, or might get you killed...

I'm speaking from a previous law enforcement point of view.....there's no sugar coating it - you either drag him kicking and screaming into treatment or move far away.

Sorry for being blunt, I hope it works out for you, and for him.

[btmgrl6]

By comparing a lie such as this with Being a Nazi war criminal is doing exactly that...trivializing it. A lie may seem like no big deal to you, or to your SO for that matter,But she should at least have the option of deciding for herself.
Excuses for lying are justified lies. I think that the only people that excuses hold water for are people in the same posistion. To me the underlying theme for most of the excuses I read is SELF PRESERVATION.
This issue and variations of it appear here regularly. I think that a good way to put this issue to bed would be to just come out and say... yes I lied. It was wrong. What can anyone say to that?
Now what you are going to do about it is a whole different story.


Steph

[GypsyKaren]

If you'd bother to read what I said, you might notice that I mentioned that I wasn't trying to justify anything. As far as the example I used, it's just that, an example. I could have compared it to kicking puppies instead, but I didn't. To me, life is about keeping things in some form of perspective, obviously it isn't to you.

Karen

[Billijo49504]

I told my wife before we were married. Actually, I told her when she was my baby sitter. For my 2 kids, I was a widower. She asked whos panties these are, I said they are mine. She asked what else I had, and I showed her. So i was completely open from the start. My 1st wife was ok with it too...BJ

[joanlynn28]

I know that I am much happier now that I have been outed by wife. And the reasons that I kept the secret a secret so long is because what I fear would happen did happen. And at times I think that my wife would be more accepting if I was gay instead of being TS. God knows that I gave it a try, I thought that getting married would stop these TS thoughts but noooo! TS thoughts just get stronger with every passing year.

[Bernice]

Gee, I thought this was going to be a thread about civil rights and stuff. Silly me. Anyway, what I have to offer is limited, because I, like BillieJo, bared my soul before baring my body.

The most ethical road is always the best road. You do not have to remember your lies, and no matter what happens, you can say you did what you thought was right. Oh, people will still attack you with vindictiveness and visciousness. Some people will never be convinced that you are anything more than evil. But the knowlege that you have done what you thought was right, even and especially when that was clearly not the easiest thing to do, will offer the best protection, and the most comfort.

People do bad things. You can forgive them and move on, or you can hold a grudge. I can tell you from personal experience that holding a grudge is definitely less healthy. The choice is yours.

Meth is obviously another matter, and if there are evil substances, that is certainly one of the worst. Your safety is paramount.

[Ron_Rhonda]

I'm extremely lucky. My wife is one loving lady. She knows about, and is OK with
my GG lover. When I told her about my "hobby", all she said was "Do it with B----, just be a guy when you get home".

I'm one lucky truck drivin', uh, man.

Crossed-posted in The Lounge.

[EricaCD]

I am sorry to hear that you have had to deal with a whole host of deceptions from your husband. You are right: any one such deception is serious enough. Moreover, in my judgment the other matters with regard to which you have been deceived are far more serious (though I acknowledge that reasonable minds may differ on that).

I also do not blame you for being bitter. I'm probably one of the few who appreciated your first post, because your feelings were certainly being honestly reflected. I think it is important for us to remember exactly how hurtful this all can be to our spouses and SOs. That said, I am also pleased that you were able to take a deep breath and return to the conversation :)

I had my reasons for not telling my wife, and yes, my personal shame about my crossdressing was the principal reason. I have apologized to my wife as sincerely as I can, and will regret my decision not to tell her as long as I live. I cannot do more than that on the culpability front; specifically, I refuse to wallow in self-flagellation or self-pity (particularly as I find it difficult to separate the guilt over the deception from a sense that I should be guilty about crossdressing). Instead, I believe that atonement will come from helping my wife get through the struggle of understanding and (hopefully) acceptance.

I really hope you are able to work through your sorrow, hurt, fear and anger, and also hope that your SO can be a help rather than a hindrance in your doing so.

Erica

[mudanjel]

Hon, I am so sorry you have had to go through this kind of garbage. It isnt fair and you have every right to be angered. I think anyone, male or female would be.

I am out to my wife (for about 10 yrs now) who cannot accept my gender issues in any way. It has made my life a living hell and despite the honesty may still very well end the marriage. Sad but true. I also understand because it does go to her core values. I guess this is why I am so adamant about people being up front at the beginning because down the road it can be a mess.

You have my best wishes and thoughts. You are a special lady and dont ever lose sight of the fact that probably about 4000 of us love you to bits.

Hugs.
Kimberley.

......your reply is incredibly gracious and I appreciate it so much!

[DonnaT]

There are many reasons for not telling one's SO about the CDing, some having been mentioned above.

However, we, many who have been around a while, already suggest to CDs entering into a relationship that they be honest and tell.

For me, More than 30 yrs ago, there wasn't an internet, and not a lot of information about CDing. My wife and I had a very short courtship, less than a year, and we were married. In that short amount of time, my CDing wasn't even on my mind. Heck we were both in the Army, and the opportunity to dress only occurred when I would go home on leave.

I'm not sure when my CDing would have come out after the wedding. We'd been married a few months, and I had only tried on her wedding night night gown. What brought the issue to the forefront was her shaving my legs because she didn't like the itching the hair caused her in bed. Later that evening she was telling my mother over the phone about the shaved legs, and the subject of pantyhose came up. I don't remember which one of us thought to try them on, but I've a pretty good idea that she thought it would be funny (she was laughing about the idea with my mom) and she brought it up as a dare. 30 yrs ago is a long time to try to remember those things.

Anyway, you can't wear pantyhose over boxers, so the panties had to be worn. We both enjoyed the sensation, and had loads of fun with it. She asked me one day why I liked dressing up, and I then told her that I wasn't sure why, but had been doing it since I was 10. Then I told her it wasn't unusual, and told her the term for us was "transvestite."

She looked it up in the dictionary, saw that the definition included a reference to being homosexual, and no longer found it fun. And as they say, the rest is history.

[Emily Ann Brown]

Well here I go putting my two cents worth in again.

I hid for 4 years, the last 6 months trying to get up the courage to tell the wife. Finally I had to. That was the start of nuclear winter. Still don't regret it. Would do it all over again, probably sooner.

And as for you Mudanjel..........:hugs: She is a very special lady who I have the great honor of calling my dear friend. Anybody want to meet a special person look no further....there she is. Been through hell and still caring and sweet.

Emily Ann

[mudanjel]

Thanks again for the thoughtful replies, support and insights. I did have a semi-organized, coherent post about the effects of deep secrets in the back of my mind, but ended up snapping in frustration. I'm happy for the couples whose relationships didn't turn into dysfunctional messes.

I lurk quite a bit and it seemed to me that some people are so blase' about their decieved wives' attitudes (I think a wife is supposed to be your best friend besides being in an honored position in your life) and blow off her "complaint" that she has been "living a lie". It's become a tired cliche, in my opinion, instead of being given the weight it deserves.

There's no way I equate meth addiction (hubby appears to be clean now) with CDing, esp. since I think CDing is normal because of my past relationships. But I think the process of discovering that a separate reality has been created for the wife is the same thing I went thru. (That's what I meant by being robbed of a basic civil right...the right to be informed of what the true picture of her own life is. Otherwise the secret-keeper is just playing God.)

I realize what a complicated issue this is; there are so many facets, pitfalls, misunderstandings and arguments :strugglin.

[Rikkicn]

. Otherwise the secret-keeper is just playing God.



WOW! Thanks for that. It brings this discussion into a new place for me.

Love,
Rikki

[mudanjel]

.

And as for you Mudanjel..........:hugs: She is a very special lady who I have the great honor of calling my dear friend. Anybody want to meet a special person look no further....there she is. Been through hell and still caring and sweet.

Emily Ann

Awwww..Em....how sweet ! :koc: I'm glad I didn't alienate you! :alien:

[mudanjel]

WOW! Thanks for that. It brings this discussion into a new place for me.

Love,
Rikki

Rikki..you totally made my day by getting my point :rose2: !

[btmgrl6]

that's what I am talking about! ... you hit the nail on the head


Steph

[ashlee chiffon]

And Karen, God knows I've tried to move on past exposing deep secrets, but it's the hardest struggle I've ever had!![/QUOTE]

so sorry to hear you're going thru this stuff and wish that i could say something comforting to make you feel better...
this stuff makes me feel so sad...and the lesson is well learned...if and when that next relationship comes around, i'll be upfront about all that i am...secrets truly Can be soo devastating to relationships believed to be built on trust!
good luck luv! my best thoughts are with you...

[mudanjel]

....for your kind words. Lurking and brooding for weeks really didn't work out for me :o .

I should have went shopping instead !!