TS questions.. all welcome to reply [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Kim E

05-27-2006, 01:14 PM

Hello Kitty ~

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

My hope has been to completely transition including SRS, IF a major health concern is resolved. At this point everything hinges on that big IF. I have a form of blood cancer, which strangely enough was discovered by my endocrinologist during the course of HRT lab work. I have no plans for facial surgery and no need for breast implants.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

I've been living full time, it will be 2 years this coming October 15th. I started HRT in January 2005, but due to the health problem, had to cut back on the schedule to increase dosages. My Endo and Hematologist were both concerned about the increased risk of blood clots. Presently, I'm on a low dosage of hormones and have had no problems. Right now, I'm in sort of limbo. Spending time doing research, talking with other pre and post op women, working on a legal name change and trying to decide if I should go back to my natural hair color (redish blonde) ugh !

Thanks for asking. :happy:

Kim

~Kitty GG~

05-27-2006, 02:14 PM

Hi Kim~

Wow.. that's fortunate .. and since the blood cancer was only found cuz you were transitioning.. I'd say its proof you were on the right path!

You look fabulous, I agree that you don't need ffs. I like your hair color now.. but a girl likes to change.

How did family, friends, workmates take your transition?

Thanx for indulging me and my thread.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

~Dee~

05-27-2006, 02:15 PM

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

hmm .. im guessing that my anwers might not be the most surprising things to you, but i dont want to be left out :p

A) I intend to transition fully. im hoping to be able to under go srs at about the 2 year mark. but im not too sure about the financials. ;) i dont think that i would want anything like ffs, mainly because of the vast costs that might accumulate if they tried to deal with me. :D

B) ive told everyone in my life that i plan to go fulltime by new years, ive started anti-a's but havent gotten the all clear for hormones yet, not because of health reasons but because the pshrink i went to see was a complete jerk and so ive had to start again with another one. *sigh*
i dont need to change my legal name, so thats kinda taken care of.
hmmm ... doesnt seem like much to report for such a long time..
so i guess im also waiting.
mind you, i think that a lot of transition is left to "waiting" for one thing or another.

Kim ~
im sorry to hear about your health problems .. its good that they caught it, but its not good that they caught it.
i hope that everything can be sorted out so that you can get back to your plans.

CaptLex

05-27-2006, 02:38 PM

A) To what extent do you INTEND to transistion?
I hope to have "top" surgery (i.e., breasts removed and chest reconstruction) and I think I'm also going to need a hysterectomy, although this is more of a medical necessity than a transitional necessity (but the insurance company would probably disagree). Money (and time) will be a factor in how quickly all this gets done.

Ideally, I would also love to have "bottom" surgery or a phalloplasty, but so far these surgeries are mostly unsuccessful and I don't want to spend lots of money and endure surgical pain and complications for something that will probably end up being a non-functioning decoration. :eek:

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?
I just started hormone therapy this month, and have come out to friends, some co-workers and the management at my firm. It's still a long road ahead, but I'm happy to have taken the first step.

Thanks for asking - I'm interested in others' responses as well. :D

~Kitty GG~

05-27-2006, 03:02 PM

Dee~

Yeah.. I kinda know what you're up to. :D

But I'm hoping that lots of other people are interested in all these experiences.

I'm very proud of how far you've come in just over a year!

Love & Hugs & Kisses
~Your Kitty~

CaptLex~

It was your Captain's Log that inspired me to start this thread. I'm so interested in the F2M side, but know very little about it.

But it occurred to me that we have so many others on this site with so much to share in the TS forum. And if there was more light shed on the experiences of transition that are actually happening amoung the members here.. it might give support or bolster someone to ask for info or take that first step.

or maybe I am just nosy :tongueout

Thanx for your thread and for adding to mine.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

azure

05-27-2006, 03:11 PM

1. I lived 8 years in the female role but had to end it due to acute stress, and very poor health, and other issues.
I now intend to transition fully, slowly with SRS, some facial cosmetic alterations, silicon implants for my hips n bum.

2. Ive have an appointment with a doctor here in the UK to discuss my transition, and restart on hormones.
Im taking car of my health, no smoking, or drinking, no drugs, a decent diet, and a thorough exercise routine.

~Kitty GG~

05-27-2006, 03:29 PM

Azure~

Its good to hear that you're taking care of yourself now.

What FFS are you considering? I was surprized that you mention implants for hips & bum but not breast.

Goes to show how individual we all are.

Do you have the support of family, friends, etc?

Thanx for your input.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Kim E

05-27-2006, 04:46 PM

Thank you Kitty and Dee for your kind thoughts and words.:happy:

When I decided to transition, I retired from my job and moved quite a distance away from my former home. Actually to an area where I knew no one. I thought I needed to start over in all aspects of my life. A few years prior to my move I'd been involved in a very bitter and nasty divorce. My gender orientation had never been an issue until the divorce. My ex took the opportunity to out me to family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, church people and anyone who would listen. Most distanced themselves from me, as if I had a contagious disease. My ex had been a very evil, nasty and spiteful woman for 20 years, so she was just being true to form.

All my immediate family have passed on. The only ones I was concerned with were my daughter and her husband. They are very understanding and supportive of me. That's all that matters. :happy:

Kim

Kayla Smith

05-27-2006, 08:13 PM

Kitty,

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

As for myself I plan( at least for now) to transistion to the point of SRS but I know that this will take me me awhile. I am taking small steps to insure that I am make the correct decisions.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

I have been seeing a gender therapist for awhile as well as living full time for the last 2 months and hopeful in a few months I will be starting HRT.

Chrissycd

05-27-2006, 08:51 PM

did you end up an Aussie after growing up in Minnesota, honey? I've lived here my whole life and am considering a move to the southwest. Change is good. Will you pm me and we can share notes? I live in the Twin Cities metro now.

Um, what did you wanna know again???
Something about where I am in transition, right?
I've been in gender therapy for a year and a half now. My therapist knew I was ts by the end of my first appt. but I needed time to process and accept something I've denied my entire lifetime.
Now, I'm about to finish laser beard removal which has gone very well. In a few weeks, I have my first HRT evaluative appt and I'm hopeful that I will be given the go ahead to begin the process.
I have one week left with my current employer. I've realized that I chose the profession of teaching for the wrong reasons (partially to try to validate and gain respect for the person I always pretended to be).
Time out: OMG the Twins just made a triple play against the Mariners! Did you know that baseball is the most highly attended (by women) pro sport in the U.S.? I think it's b/c of all of those fine gentlemen out there looking so handsome in their tight fitting pinstripes...sigh.
Anyway, I've also found that my attraction to women, while still strong, is leveling off, and my interest in men is increasing almost hourly...
Umm...what else?
I'm very lucky b/c I have my mom's face and so I don't feel the need for any facial surgery at all. That's a major relief being that I quit my job and don't know what I'm even going to do now, so at least that's one less expense I'll have to plan for. I want to see what results I get from hormones in the chest, but I expect that I probably will eventually get breast enhancements. I also expect to undergo SRS b/c my unit has never seemed a natural part of my being and I want to finally be fulfilled sexually as a woman. Playing the male role in bed never, ever really seemed comfortable to me.
How's that?
Hugs,
Chrissy
ps - Why are you so curious after all? I always have wanted to know what a gg finds attractive about a ts. Can you share?

Priss

05-27-2006, 09:00 PM

I lived pre-op in full transition throughout the 90s, due to financials. Once I solved that problem, I had the MtF surgeries at the end of 2000 and into 01...

btmgrl6

05-27-2006, 09:10 PM

I m planning on going all the way....breast implants, hrt.......and eventualyly SRS

Steph

Kimberley

05-27-2006, 09:31 PM

btmgrl6

05-27-2006, 11:38 PM

I am a 24/7 ts. I live it,work it, and play enfemme. When I transition it won't be because of the need to mask or protect myself from society.It will be because that's whatI want to do. because it's who I want to be. There are thousands of ts, tg, gay, cd, les people out there living their life as they want.
Why? because we learned a little secret. Society doesn't give a rat's behind what we do. Society doesn't pay any more attention to me than I do to them. and more impotant we don't care what society thinks
Our "fear" of what society "thinks" about us is what keeps us in the closet,not fear of what society is going to "do" to us.
It's fear that allows us to keep it hidden from the people in our lives that we are supposed to love and trust the most.
let's not go into the hundreds of excuses on why we can't come out.We cannot even accept ourselves. The bottom line is that if we have the balls to do it.. we are free to do it. it may not be easy, it may take huge sacrifices, and the cost may be dear. But we have the right.
And as for the advances in medicine......if SRS was available eons ago... you can bet your bottom dollar that it would have been taken advantage of.

Steph

CharlaineCadence

05-28-2006, 06:17 AM

Haveing finally come to terms and accepted my self I began the slow road to transtion. I startesd on hormones in 2001-2002 though stoped them for a two year time inorder to fight in Iraq. Then getting back on the in late 2005. I have many plains for myself as twords my transition. I live full time as a woman as the world is concerned but inorder help my father deal with it better I dress androginsly at home. I am in the process of my name change. I am in gender theripy with two pdocs one that I pay for and one that is with the Va. I at this point and time am trying to get the Va. to take over my hormones theripy and because of this have run out. I have plans for some FFs shuch as brow lift, scap advancement, jaw shaving, chin shaving (if needed), trachea shave(if needed). I will in two years after bstedy hrt plan on having my brest inmplants and that will be it for a long time. As I feel that I am way to eager to think about the srs to really know if it is right for me. I have decided to wait five years before i sit down and fully decide weather or not it is what I want. I am scard admitedly but ie is a good fear. I do not want to end up like the many who have found after rushing that they made huge mistakes. As the money end is concerned it is rough right now after being fired because of my transiton and now struggle to find another job. I am so much more happy now that I live in the gender role I should have all my life. I have to admit that I have lost alot of friends because of my transition but have gaines even more. I have also learned who my real friends are, and that for me is the best thing in the world. All in all I have learned alot and am still learning. I have no regrets and look forward to when I can walk down a street and say to myslef I am finaly whole.

kiss kiss
char

~Dee~

05-28-2006, 06:35 AM

we have quite a spread of people and experiences already :happy:
good to see.

where ones path may lead to isnt so much as the courage to actually take steps along that given pathway.
it might not be easy at times, but i wish everyone luck and happiness in their chosen lives.

Kimberley, i dont know if i can agree with your ideas. i think i am more inclined to agree with Steph, when i under go my srs it wont be because of fear of society or a means to hide myself in the crowd .. afterall, its not like the crowd is going to be able to see that part of me ..
its because i feel its the right thing to do .. its something that id like to change about myself.. it would make me happier to feel more complete.

~Kitty GG~

05-28-2006, 08:31 AM

Kayla~
I'm glad you replied. Love your avatar pic.
I hope that all of you who are taking the time to share a bit of yourselves will keep us posted.
Its nice to be able to support and recieve support specifically on the transition issues.

Chrissy~
Sure I'll pm you and we can chat about growing up MN girlies.
You're the first to mention a shift in sexual attraction. I'm hoping to get lots of honest answers like that. So that everyone can stop wondering if things are "normal" or not.
I'm so curious because I'm going through all this (to a lesser degree obviously) right along with Dee. And so all the info is good to know. But also because it can feel like each TS is alone.. and that's just not true. So I want Dee and myself to make new friends here with others who have shared or are sharing experiences like ours.

Priss~
Wow I admire you for taking control and being yourself through the 90's. Accepting the limitations you were faced with but not just giving up and saying "why bother".
I'm happy that you've since been able to have the surgery.

Steph~
That's cool that you're planning on the whole package.
Where are you at now? What roadblocks have you faced? What support have you found?

Kimberly~
I also don't agree with your ideas that SRS is too easy to get.
BUT its good to have differing oppinions, ideas, and experiences here. This is more of what I was hoping for as well. Reasons that some are choosing non-op. That's just as valid as any other decision.

I feel that adults should be taking responsibility for their choices regardless of what area of their lives we're talking about. And so I don't think a pshrink should have the power to deny srs for some and to grant it to others. Just like we shouldn't be tested and forced into jobs that are deemed suitable, or have others decide which movies are suitable for us to see etc.

I disagree that srs is a way to mask or protect TSs from society. Or that since it wasn't available in the past and people learned to deal with it..
I think that its similar to getting a prosthetic. Just because they weren't available before doesn't mean someone w/ a disability should be denied a new limb when they do become available due to scientific advancement. And if I had a bump on my nose and wanted to have that surgically altered to be happier w/ my appearance.. I don't see that as being any of society's biz.

I do feel bad now for the F2M's who have such inferior techniques for SRS. And I look forward to the day when that catches up.

I agree with the big YAY to Karen tho. Not cuz she's learned to live w/o it. But because she's made choices that work for her and then made it so.

Char~
Sounds like you have a well thought out plan.
Did you find it difficult to stop HRT for those 2 years and put on a man's helmet for the war?

Lots of Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

CharlaineCadence

05-28-2006, 10:10 AM

For me the thought of Doing my duty as a soldier and american never changed when it came to my disition to transtion. It was why I signed up and I was more then proud to do it. Weather man or woman I was happy to defent the rights we have, and seeing the children smile as they whent to school for the first time since saddam took over made it all worth wile. The news and media doesnt tell the good side of why we are their and that hurts us soldiers. Just as in veitnam we have come home to mixed support and critisems. Nomatter how badly i was treated when i returned from Iraq I was glad to have been their.

As for the stopping of hormones i with a docters advice weened off of them so I never had the reactions I am having now just from running out.

As for planning my transiton out I have to say. I had to, this was and is a major disition in my life and I dont want it to feel like it was a mistake. When I know in my heart of hearts it is the right and best thing for me.

AngelAshley

05-30-2006, 05:58 AM

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?
Put it this way - if there was a way to transplant my brain into the body of a girl, I'd be first on the list :D I'm going as far as I can..

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?
- Came out to my friends, started to live as a girl around them
- Saw my GP, who referred me to...
- A counceller, who reffered me to...
- The Gender Identity Clinic at Charring Cross hospital
- Became a cheerleader!
- Came out to my 'rents...
- Came out to work, started to live & work full time as a female
- More appointments at the GIC, now waiting for hormones & speech therapy. Should be in for surgery sometime after Nov. 2007 :D
- Recently started having Electrolysis

Kimberley

05-30-2006, 09:11 AM

I do believe that my cimments were taken far too literally (or I didnt explain them adequately).

Our goal should be to be able to live and do so happily. I think that too many of us look at SRS as the goal rather than living as the ultimate goal. From most of the comments I have heard from post-ops the SRS was only the icing on the cake. The real achievement was to be able to live life as their true gender. This common statement of opinion from post ops seems to place credence to that.

The process requires a minimum of 1 year RLT. Is this really a test or is it actually saying "You want to live in your true gender then do so full time." The word test indicates a pass/fail which is not and should not be even in the picture. Again, this comes back to the original point; living in your true gender.

We need to be happy, every human being deserves that no matter what. But the happiness is in living, not existing in obsession over a surgical procedure that does not solve problems we already have. It exchanges one set of problems for another. This tradeoff is not a solution. This is also why the standards of care exist; to eliminate mistakes to the best possible degree.

If we are ignoring existing problems by obsessing on transformation then we are really masking the underlying issues. These issues must be resolved before any transformation can or should begin. This is the real mask, not hiding on a daily basis.

Like it or not, society does not look kindly on us whether we have a 'go shove it' attitude or not. We might be tolerated in the larger urban centers but there are a lot of places where we are in significant danger. To think otherwise is shear madness. This applies across the entire spectrum from TV to post op.

In the end, I still stand behind my opinion that SRS is not a solution, it is only a step in a much larger process. Living life in your true gender is the solution. Recognizing the dangers is essential.

No matter what route is taken it is a path of enormous courage.

I hope this clears up the misconceptions.

Kimberley.

kelli

05-30-2006, 09:20 AM

I get asked these questions by doctors, wife and counselor quite often. When I first started going to the counselor I had a 3 year plan all worked out. Reality is keeping your sanity and obtaining the needed congruency between body and mind to be happy.

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?
I look at this whole process realization, counselors, HRT, RLE and SRS and think what do I need to do to be happy with myself and my body. I probably will never fully transition and have SRS. However, what I need for my own sanity will and has changed as the months and years role by.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?
I am now on HRT, my SO knows everything and we are dealing with all sorts of emotions on both sides. My doctor and counselor are both great and are working together well. The last visit to the doctor she talked about and orchi to get the HRT dosages down and provided a safer femminzation. I have no problem with that nor does the wife.

Kelli

~Dee~

05-30-2006, 09:24 AM

Kimberley,

ok, your redefinition is a lot better.

yes, i can agree that srs is not a cure ..
i agree that some people do see it as the means to make their life tolerable .. and for the most part - if you have such a problem like this, then having srs isnt going to make that any better. unhappiness will still be there.. afterall, they arent removing your unhappiness and turning it into something else ...
which is a pity really, cause i think there would be way more people lining up for srs if that were the case.

i get what you meant, now.
:happy:

azure

05-30-2006, 10:00 AM

Thankyou for your care, I want to achieve a female figure with the implants though I still have breasts from my hormone therapy before, Im a 36c, and very proud of them, though keep them from view. Im preparing a nice natural outfit to go and see my doctor in June, and Im thinking about laser therapy to get rid of facial hair. I was having electrolysis before, but money got tight.
If any of the girls here need any advice/tips about transition, Im more than happy to share my experiences. Im not crazy about going on about myself, I find its better to share and work together, and support each other.

Thanks

Azure : )

~Kitty GG~

05-30-2006, 10:48 AM

Char~
I support you and the others doing such a tough job for their country. And I admire your honor. Thanx

Minaki~
I saw your cheerleader pic. Fantastic. Its wonderful to see people moving toward their goals. And more importantly living life while doing so!
Congrats Girl!

Kimberly~
Thanx for clarifying your views.
I personally still think that the individual should be making the decisions w/ the help of doctors, pshrinks etc.. NOT w/ the permission.
If a person chooses to go overseas for SRS you usually don't have to conform to an RLT. I personally disagree with the RLT.. I would think that anyone professing to be TS would be living that role as soon as they could.. so since SRS doesn't change anything the public can see.. why wait till after that to dress in your true gender?
I know.. everyone's gonna tell me its cuz people rush in and make mistakes. But I think that putting so many other people in charge takes personal responsibility away. And so the TS person may be thinking that even tho they have doubts.. the pshrink passed me.. I made it through the test.. I must be ready. They can stop using common sense, logic, and trusting themselves.
I do think that its important for people to understand that things like SRS, or winning the lottery, or getting cosmetic surgery, or getting married, or having kids.. (the list goes on) won't magically solve problems and give you a better life. They are all changes in circumstance. Problems are a part of life. Self acceptance and a realistic view of what challenges you face are a much better way to improve your life.
I do think that acceptance by others is more readily available them most people think. Maybe its cuz I only hang with those who would accept. But anyway.. as I've said through this whole thing, these are things I believe, so these are my opinions and not some gospel.

Kelli~
Sounds like you're well on your way. I hope that you and your wife can work together.
If you go for the orchi, will you be ruling SRS out totally? Most of the info I've read says that the proceedure limits the tissue available for later SRS.
I would think that HRT becomes more effective tho.

Azure~
Thanx for indulging me. Its nice to hear that you're available for questions.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I'm always pleased to see that someone has added to this thread.
Thanx again girls.
Aren't there SO's who have something to add?

....:gh:....
Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

kelli

05-30-2006, 01:32 PM

Kitty,

Thanks for the kind words and support. I'll try to answer and provide some insight on orchi vs. SRS.

There is a great deal of mis-conceptions regarding an orchi followed by SRS. The vast majority of SRS surgeons, endos and urologist now say there will be some shrinkage over about a three year period and given all the other material available could, let me repeat could, cause a lack of depth. Most natal women have a depth of 4-5 inches, most post op TSs have 5-6 inches. Drs, Bowers, Metzler, Reed, Bassard and the king of the new technques Dr Supron all agree.

Shrinkage will occure from either an orchi or taking antiandrogens. The amount of shrinkage is person dependent but appears to be the same for both HRT and orchi. There are dozens of cases where people waited 3-12 years between an orchi and SRS. Some had skin grafts to make up for the shrinkage. Some even at 12 years needed no grafts and obtained 6-7 inches.

You are correct HRT should be more effective with less drugs, smaller doses and less health risk.

I still think about SRS and RLE however, I am going to go as far as I need to go. I do not know if that includes SRS or not. What I do know is that as a transsexual person I have constant femme thoughts and needs and as a human being those thoughts and needs will change over time. The $50.00 question is where will the journey take me. Many look at SRS as icing on the cake, I know I want cake, just not what type yet.

Kelli

Cheery GG

05-30-2006, 01:48 PM

This thread is great, thanks kitty and thanks to everyone who has replied, its been very interesting read.....

The one thing that i havent struggled with is this, my So is TS.....and ive been thinking that if one is TS then surely to feel 'right' you need to do everything you can to become the person physically that you feel you are on the inside, it seems this isnt necessarily the case. I think ive been seeing it as very black and white....

I will ask Lisa to answer this thread as it isnt fair to speak on her behalf and she can answer it much better than me....

cheery
xx

Ms. Donna

05-31-2006, 09:57 AM

I've been on the fence with regards to replying to this, but I'll put this out here for what it's worth.

If I had to stand in the box, I could live with 'being' a Non-Op TS. It's not accurate, but it's close enough for government work. There are many factors which I feel exclude me from this category:
I do not consider myself a woman
I do not consider myself to be female
I do not feel trapped in the wrong body
I do not need to be stereotypically feminine

My presentation, however, definitely leans to the more feminine side. Almost all my clothes are women's - panties, socks, jeans, trousers, t-shirts, sweaters. I wear earrings, necklace, bracelet, anklet, rings - and carry a purse - almost all the time. My hair - naturally wavy - is now down to my shoulders. And depending on the shirt I'm wearing, my natural bustline is noticable (see my profile pic.) I will often get read as a woman - but even with all of this, I can 'pass' as a man.

So, I suppose the question is "Am I transitioning / have I transitioned?"

I don't know how to answer that. I have integrated women's clothing into my everyday wardrobe for a long time now. Perhaps is only the past few years where the balance has tipped to almost all women's with a few men's items mixed in. I don't identify as a man - or as a woman. I don't want to have surgery: I don't 'hate' my penis and my wife kinda likes the fact I have one. ;) I don't really 'fit the mold' as a textbook transsexual - but I also have more than a few toes in the water.

I'll leave it for you all to decide where I am.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

CaptLex

05-31-2006, 10:04 AM

I'll leave it for you all to decide where I am.
Donna,

I've always thought you were in your own category - if indeed a category is necessary - and I've always thought that's kind of cool. :D

~Kitty GG~

05-31-2006, 12:17 PM

Donna~

Well you've told us what you're not. And you've told us that you present as female for the most part.

But why? Why do you have mostly femme clothes? If you don't feel feminine.. then why not just wear unisex stuff? Or regular guy stuff? Why the purse and the overtly female trappings?

And is there anything else going on? Is it just clothes and accessories?

What makes you identify not as CD but as non-op TS? Since you don't feel that you are a woman?

Its ok to not fit neatly into boxes.. they can get cramped.

Its nice to hear what people are feeling, and its interesting to see what choices different people are making.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

btmgrl6

05-31-2006, 01:16 PM

Kimberley

05-31-2006, 01:51 PM

Just because srs is not right for you what makes you think that it may not be right for someone else? there are a ton of people who have delt with thier "other problems" (as you put it) and are ready to take that next step.
You can't just walk into your doctors office and get a sex change. Like you said...doctors and other professionals look at us very carefully, before allowing a sex change.
And again I'll say that eons ago, people had to put up with a lot of things that medical science has since improved on. Quality of life has changed.
Now the quality of life for the transgendered has changed for the better...
Can we sit in judgement of others who's feelings are different than ours, because our feelings are different?
You might not want to transform....because as you say you have more impotant things to consider.
Other's do want to transform....because they too have considered what's impotant in their lives, and to them....this is it. There are a million stories in the naked city... your's is just one. The desire for some to transform is so strong that it could literally be a matter of life and death.

Steph
****************
Steph,
I dont believe you read the entire thread. I did clarify my position because some were not reading it correctly.
My choice was personal and in no way intended to present persuasive argument. I am sorry if you took it that way. I think that if you read other posts of mine you would also realize that my personal decision has had serious consequences for me.
Secondly, I am not against transition and that is not and never was my point. My point was that too many of us focus on transition as the goal when living life in our true gender should be the goal. Transition is only the icing on the cake.
Finally, yes science has provided the means to make life "better" but I think that in my second post on this subject I stated very clearly that transitioning does not solve the problems. It does however exchange one set for another.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

Kimberley.

Ms. Donna

05-31-2006, 02:30 PM

Well you've told us what you're not. And you've told us that you present as female for the most part.
I present as female only if you buy into the Cisgender Ideal that all men are male and that all women are female. My sex is male and I don't do anything to hide that. Now, if someone reads me as a woman and makes the assumption that I am female - that's a different story. But I don't present as female.

But why? Why do you have mostly femme clothes? If you don't feel feminine.. then why not just wear unisex stuff? Or regular guy stuff? Why the purse and the overtly female trappings?

And is there anything else going on? Is it just clothes and accessories?
Now, you know it's not a fashion thing - otherwise I'd say I'm a crossdresser and leave it at that. :)

I don't know what it means to feel feminine any more that I know what it means to feel masculine. I only know what it means to feel like me. To present as a stereotypical 'man' feels wrong - as does presenting as a stereotypical 'woman'. These extreams simply do not resonate for me - if anything, they create a disonance. The 'overtly female trappings' are not as overt as it may sound. It usually pushes things far enough to be just past ambiguous - enough to elicit a double-take - enough to make people question 'what is that?' - enough to challange the assumptions they hold so dear and yet don't know why.

What is going on is that my answer to the question, "Are you a man or a woman?" is "Neither" - or "Both" - but usually "Neither."

My presentation is my way of expressing this 'other' gendered state.

What makes you identify not as CD but as non-op TS? Since you don't feel that you are a woman?
I don't identify as a Non-Op TS so much as I dentify as transgender. More correctly, I identify as Genderqueer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer).

The difference between these labels - Non-Op TS / Transgender / Genderqueer - is so vague: there is no clear line of demarcation. I mean, what is the difference between a 24/7 transgenderist and a Non-Op TS? I'm sure that each will tell you that they are not the other - but from a practical standpoint, they are basically the same thing.

For me, transsexual is a fairly narrowly defined category. It assumes a belief in the Cisgender Ideal (above) and that as a woman (or man), you are in possession of a body of the wrong (opposite) sex. Were the sex of said body to be corrected, you would no longer be transsexual - you would be a 'normal' (Cisgendered) woman (or man). This is, by and large, the POV most 'textbook' transsexuals have - not all - but most.

To people outside of the TG 'community' - the 'public at large' - I would be 'explained' as either a crossdresser or transsexual. These are the labels with which the general public is most familiar as they simply do not know that there is more to it than that. For the purpose of public consumption, Non-Op TS is probably the closest category in which to place myself: I'm male-bodied, I present more or less as a woman and I have no plans for surgery. On a simple operational level - it works: it's a bit flawed, but it works.

I don't want to hijack your thread - but you did ask. ;)

Love & Stuff,
Donna

GypsyKaren

05-31-2006, 02:36 PM

If I can just jump in here for a minute, I'd like to add something. A few years ago I read a study, wish I remember where I found it, where researchers went back and interviewed a large group who'd had SRS and asked them if they were happy now. Two thirds of those asked said no, and half of them said they regretted having the surgery. On a personal note, I know several who have gone all the way, and they're not happy with their life either. According to my tranny doc, the vast majority of TS's don't go all the way for various reasons, preferring to remain non-op like me.

As far as being carefully screened before being allowed to have SRS, in most cases that's true, but there are places where you can have it done without it. As a friend of mine who had SRS told me, "if you've got the cash, you can get it done with no problems whatsoever."

Karen

Kimberley

05-31-2006, 03:43 PM

I think we 3, Donna, Karen and myself are in somewhat of a minority here yet each of us shares pretty much the same direction although for slightly different reasons yet many of the same ones.

Yes Karen, I agree with the statement about happiness post op. Like you, I also know of a couple of post ops who by and large regretted going forward but it was for reasons of practicality; jobs etc. They werent dissatisfied with the SRS but in their ability to function more or less normally as females. There was a lot of discrimination, none of which could be proven of course but that was the perception they held. Both were university educated and had many years of experience in their chosen fields but were deemed unemployable in the end.

As Donna pointed out, presentation as female is not necessarily a prerequisite either. Understanding and acceptance of one's self and the limitations associated is more important to us than surgical procedures. Like Donna I also move in a presentation that suits me. I dont need to scream to the world what I am. I already know and if someone questions that then they get an answer. What is important is to know ourselves first and not let other external factors influence who we are. Can we spell noncomforming TS's?

I think the one thing I have seen here is a certain discrimination that says if you dont go for SRS then you are not a TS. This of course is complete nonsense. Everyone of us is different yet we all share similar traits. Each of us acts on those in a different way. There is no right or wrong, only that which suits the individual.

Just my opinions.
Kimberley.

Ms. Donna

05-31-2006, 03:49 PM

I've always thought you were in your own category - if indeed a category is necessary - and I've always thought that's kind of cool. :D

Why thank you! :o Cool is something I've never been - at least I've never seen myself as cool.

Being in a category all your own, however, has it's own set of issues. The general public 'know' about crossdressers - they 'know' about transsexuals - and some know about transgender. After that, you might as well be an alien. :(

It is also a lonely place at times: being an outsider to a group of outsiders. (See my thread: Welcome to Nowhere... (http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21970) posted shortly after joining here.) I know how the 'longing for belonging' can obscure one's view and drive one to making rash decisions. It almost did for me. Eight or so years ago, I was sure that the only thing that would 'fix' me - that would make me 'normal' - was SRS: I was wrong.

Doesn't mean that it isn't right for someone else - just that it wasn't right for me.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

Amelie

05-31-2006, 04:17 PM

I am a ******* and I think this is where I will be for the rest of my life. There is no way that I could transistion, unless I won the lottery. I have lived this way for so long that I am content with my life.

I have taken quite a bit of stuff to try to get a female shape. Some stuff I didn't even know what it was, just something that some other Ts's would give me. I even tried birth control pills when I was young. These things did make my breasts grow, for this, I am happy.

I know these things seem dangerous but the feeling is too strong to be concerned about the dangers. Some people take iileagl drugs for the buzz even though they knew it would be dangerous, well I would take whatever I could to help the shape of my body, just like a drug addict.

Right now, I have the look that I want, although I would like bigger breasts, I would get more work with bigger breasts. lol

All in all I am happy, happy to dance in the dark area of not being a man or a woman. I am not both, a man and a woman, I am the opposite, I am neither a man or a woman.

Kim E

05-31-2006, 05:36 PM

Hello Donna ~
Very well said. I also can relate to lonely, to being an outsider among outsiders and guilty of longing to belong. Sadly, I wasted many years before realizing that I am who and what I am, I can't change it. We're all different in our personal lives. We may share common ground but ultimately its up to each of us to choose our own unique path in life. Whatever that may be, it doesn't make any of us either more right or more wrong in our choices.

Hello Amelie ~
I understand completely what you have said here. If you are happy and content then I'm behind you all the way. Sometimes others and outside influences can shape our lives, but if we're self accepting of who we are inside, then its ok. Personally, I'll fight for you to the end, because that's what friends do. I think you know what I mean.

Kim

CaptLex

05-31-2006, 08:25 PM

Being in a category all your own, however, has it's own set of issues. The general public 'know' about crossdressers - they 'know' about transsexuals - and some know about transgender. After that, you might as well be an alien. :(
Even if the general public is aware of the existence of CDs, TSs and TGs, some of them still think of us as aliens anyway. You're not as alone as you think you are. In any case, I think everyone can find acceptance here - regardless of labels used or lack of them. :gh:

P.S. I still think you're cool. :D

btmgrl6

06-01-2006, 04:42 AM

[QUOTE=Kimberley]Hi Kitty,
l.

Our reality has existed for eons, and all that time SRS was nonexistant. We learned to live this duality and in many cultures it was celebrated and still is. Today it is our western "Victorian attitude" culture that makes it so difficult for us. Religion has too much to say about things that are not matters of faith and we buy into it.
I beleive that if our society was more tolerant allowing us to be who we are, the need for transitioning would be considerably less. Instead, transition has become a necessity to mask and protect us from society. Modern science has provided the tools.

We had no choice but to live this duality eons ago...There is a huge difference between existing, and happiness wouldn't you say? I still say that If SRS would have been available "eons" ago..... it would have been a big seller. BIG!
I am a literal person so when someone says.....that people transition in order to mask (which to me means hide) or to seek protection from society... it means just that.I can't read anything else into that statement.

btmgrl6

06-01-2006, 06:29 AM

Hi Kitty,
I will not be transitioning. This is a decision I made 15 years ago. It was difficult and gut wrenching and has caused a lot of pain and anguish in the interim, but it was the right decision for me. I had more to lose than I would have gained; family, career etc. Those same reasons still hold true today. This doesnt make me ambiguous, only to have establishe priorities for my life.

Our reality has existed for eons, and all that time SRS was nonexistant. We learned to live this duality and in many cultures it was celebrated and still is. Today it is our western "Victorian attitude" culture that makes it so difficult for us. Religion has too much to say about things that are not matters of faith and we buy into it.
I beleive that if our society was more tolerant allowing us to be who we are, the need for transitioning would be considerably less. Instead, transition has become a necessity to mask and protect us from society. Modern science has provided the tools.

Too many of us are of the opinion that we have to go to SRS to live and be happy. I disagree.
Karen is the poster child for this. She has proven she can live without it and be happy with herself, her family and her life. I can only wish I could follow her footsteps.

Kimberley

In your first paragraph you say that you are not going to transition, and how hard that decision was to make, but you did it because you had other priorities. Then you go into the happiness with your "true gender" thing.
Sounds to me like you setteled. Sounds to me like you weren't happy about it, but you did it. The question is... are you truely happy with your decision, or have you learned to live with it because you had to?
The "eons ago" thing.......They too had to live with it, just as you find yourself having to do. But were they Happy, and if they had a choice..would they have elected to not undergo SRS?
does agreeing with Karen and calling her a poster child for not having SRS give credence to your arguement for not having SRS?
I guess what I am asking is... are you trying to convince us... or you?
As for me.. I feel that my true gender is female. ( I don't know if you think that this is possible or not) but for the sake of arguement let's just say you do. Now if I present as male, but my true gender is female, should I just resign myself to the the fact that I am a male, and should I just accept it and convince myself that I am happy?
I read a study that said that although there are different reasons for people to undergo SRS... The main reason was stated to be that it was essential for a transexual person so that they may experience harmony between body and self-identity. Ok so I elect to have SRS...and it could or could not cause new problems... only now, just like you I can deal with it "living my true gender"

My opinion

Steph

Steph

Makncheese

06-01-2006, 08:45 AM

Kimberley

06-01-2006, 10:29 AM

In your first paragraph you say that you are not going to transition, and how hard that decision was to make, but you did it because you had other priorities. Then you go into the happiness with your "true gender" thing.
Sounds to me like you setteled. Sounds to me like you weren't happy about it, but you did it. The question is... are you truely happy with your decision, or have you learned to live with it because you had to?
The "eons ago" thing.......They too had to live with it, just as you find yourself having to do. But were they Happy, and if they had a choice..would they have elected to not undergo SRS?
does agreeing with Karen and calling her a poster child for not having SRS give credence to your arguement for not having SRS?
I guess what I am asking is... are you trying to convince us... or you?
As for me.. I feel that my true gender is female. ( I don't know if you think that this is possible or not) but for the sake of arguement let's just say you do. Now if I present as male, but my true gender is female, should I just resign myself to the the fact that I am a male, and should I just accept it and convince myself that I am happy?
I read a study that said that although there are different reasons for people to undergo SRS... The main reason was stated to be that it was essential for a transexual person so that they may experience harmony between body and self-identity. Ok so I elect to have SRS...and it could or could not cause new problems... only now, just like you I can deal with it "living my true gender"

My opinion

Steph

Steph
Hi Steph.
Yes, I settled on not proceeding because my family was extremely important to me and still is. Proceeding to surgery would have left me alone. So, the trade off was for love of family. That was and remains the major reason for my decision.
The second reason was that at the time I had a business to run. The clients were largely conservative so, the impact on moving to surgery could have cost me clientele and subsequently jobs for the dozen or so people working for me (translation,looking to me to provide them with a living). Top that off with a huge personal investment in this business and again, it was a matter of responsibility.

Now to the question of happiness. I made responsible decisions on several fronts, decisions that were right for me then and now. Was I happy about making them? No. Am I still happy about making them? Maybe. The fact is that I had to learn to live with myself and those decisions. Today I am comfortable with them but overjoyed? No, of course not. I could have acted selfishly and irresponsibly and said stuff it to the world and gone on my merry way, but to do so would have created more problems that were not in my best interest. Sometimes life is a trade off. All things are negotiable but at what price? For me, the price was too high.

I do not and never have advocated that anyone should follow my path. Exactly the opposite. My position has ALWAYS been that each person has to find their own way. Period. Look, I am more than aware of the overwhelming need for transition. Do not think for even a heartbeat that I do not. It has taken years of therapy to get to a state where I can live with myself. And yes, this is after several suicide attempts.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. That is not the purpose of these forums. These forums are not here for argument or criticism. They are here for support of one another.

I ABSOLUTELY resent your implications that I am trying to convince anyone, myself included, of anything. I have spent a lot of time (the last 15 years) coming to terms with myself and 50+ years living with myself. I come here to help others. I come here to put my life out there, mistakes and all for others to see and maybe avoid the same pitfalls (and that includes going forward with SRS when you absolutely need to). What you choose to do with your life is your decision. I would be the last person to tell you or anyone else to do anything except get educated on both sides of the fence and think before acting. That is the extent of my advice to anyone in the past, now, or into the future.

Kimberley

GypsyKaren

06-01-2006, 11:29 AM

Cheery GG

06-01-2006, 12:02 PM

Kimberley, it sounds to me like you made the right decisions for yourself. Like you said, life is one big trade off for this and that, the key is finding balance and acceptance for ourselves and the decisions we must make, and you've done that. All I can say is good for you!

You know, I've had more than a few TSs tell me that there's no way I can possibly be happy without going further like them. The funny thing is that it comes from people who aren't happy themselves, so who are they to say? Also, they don't know me at all, they have no clue as to what I feel inside. Sometimes it feels like they want me to join them in their misery, like their jealous of the fact that I've found peace and happiness, and they haven't.

In any event, we're all here to support each other, not to try to convince anyone of this or that. That's the beauty of this place, everyone for everyone, sisters for sisters. Take care Kimberley, and be well.

Karen

Karen karen karen, oh boy honey....

i cant believe i just read that thread......My lisa and i had a conversation ocne about my jealousy towards one of her ts friends. This particular person passes very well in my opinion, has had all the SRS, and desperately want Lisa to join her and go down th same path. I tried to explain to Lisa that this friend is not happy, (her words), but yet she wants you to do it too....i cant help think its so this so called friend can have someone to wallow in the same 'woh is me'....attitude.

Thank god Lisa is independant thinking and knows what she wants and what she doesnt....

YOur post struck a cord with me, thanks chicken....mwah..love ya

cheery
xx

OniKoneko

06-01-2006, 09:56 PM

A) All the way. When they discover how to make us into genetic girls, I will be first in line. Unless magic or some other supernatural force has manifested itself before then... If it has then I'll just use that. :P

B) I wear girly-er clothing when I feel like it. I wear eyeliner. Uhh, to be honest though... the only steps I need to take are to impact my physical self... I'm a girl with a birth defect. :P Always have been a girl and always will be... It's like wearing a costume or something... I've just got to find the zipper pull and get out of it. Wish I could just use a safety pin as a pull, but I can't even find the zipper itself. Or it's like being born with that disease that makes your skin and eyes yellow... Just need to put you under special lights for a bit... Well, I just need to be physically modified a bit. But if they had special lights that would do the trick, I'd have those in a heartbeat.

Oh, and I am in no way stereotypically feminine... Well, maybe in some ways... But I like machines, weapons, and sharp things too much to be stereotypically feminine. I carve out my own niche to plant a bomb that will crumble what people see as "normal". I don't like stereotypes much, see? It would greatly please me if people stopped judging people by them, because it gets very hard to actually get to know someone when stereotypes are in the way.

~Kitty GG~

06-02-2006, 01:36 PM

Donna~

The 'overtly female trappings' are not as overt as it may sound. .

Were the sex of said body to be corrected, you would no longer be transsexual - you would be a 'normal' (Cisgendered) woman (or man). This is, by and large, the POV most 'textbook' transsexuals have - not all - but most.

I don't want to hijack your thread - but you did ask. ;)

Love & Stuff,
Donna

You didn't hijack the thread.. this is what the thread is all about. I must admit to goading you with the "overtly female trappings" cuz I wanted you to tell us how you see things.

sorry.. :hugs:

I don't understand what you mean when you say that when the sex of the body has been corrected the person is not a TS anymore. I've mostly heard post-op TSs still consider themselves TS since genetically they are still the opposite (trans) sex. And I figure that even if you could change the genetics.. unless you did that within a very short time after birth.. the life experiences of the TS mean they lived a life in the other sex.. and so may have a lot of attitudes, ideas, and experiences that they have only because they are TS. So I don't see that as being erased.

Steph, Kimberly, & Karen~
The differing opinions and different choices related to TS goals is what this thread is all about. And so its good to hear how unique each journey is. I do have a prob with non-ops pointing out how unhappy post-ops are.

It doesn't say to me "I weighed all my options and my wants and needs and chose no-op". I look at it this way: I'm not a career person. And I have lots of reasons for not pursuing a career. I know what works for me. I know how much money I need. I know how much a title or a place in society means to me. I know how lazy I am. I know me. But I could point to career people and say they're not happy. There are a lot not happy people. Its not cuz the choices they made were wrong choices for everyone. Its cuz they made wrong choices for them.

Amelie~
I think you're the only one to identify as *******. I applaud you for saying what you feel.

If you did win the lottery.. would you go for SRS? would you go for breast implants? would you stay as you are? or would you share the money with me? :D

Kehleyr~
Wow things are moving right along. Must be exciting.

Will you come out at work now? Why did you choose to stay in guy-mode at work?

I so much prefer the term "lesbian transsexual woman" to "male lesbian".

Makncheese~
Welcome to the forum! I hope you find lots of interesting and fun things here. And that you'll share your experience, thoughts and feelings with us as well. I'd like to see more TS issues brought up.

OniKoneko~

When they discover how to make us into genetic girls, I will be first in line. Unless magic or some other supernatural force has manifested itself before then... If it has then I'll just use that. :P

Well, I just need to be physically modified a bit.

Since you say you only need to be physically modified a bit.. and there is a lot that's possible today.. why do you also say that you will wait till they can make you a genetic girl?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Thanx again for all the posts. When I ask you q's.. please don't take them to be judgements. I'm curious why people choose one way or the other. I don't think that anyone is capable of making the choices for you.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Amelie

06-02-2006, 01:42 PM

If you did win the lottery.. would you go for SRS? would you go for breast implants? would you stay as you are? or would you share the money with me?

Ha,,lol,, my lottery money would be all spent in one day, you'd have to come to Balto very fast if you want to catch some of the money before it's all gone. lol

If I had the money, first, I would get breast implants, then I would have stuff(silicone I guess) pumped into my butt and hips, and yes "little Willy" would be gone, or at least "Willy" would be in a jar over the mantle of my new home.

I would go all the way, if I had the money.

Makncheese

06-02-2006, 02:08 PM

Donna~
I don't understand what you mean when you say that when the sex of the body has been corrected the person is not a TS anymore. I've mostly heard post-op TSs still consider themselves TS since genetically they are still the opposite (trans) sex. And I figure that even if you could change the genetics.. unless you did that within a very short time after birth.. the life experiences of the TS mean they lived a life in the other sex.. and so may have a lot of attitudes, ideas, and experiences that they have only because they are TS. So I don't see that as being erased.

I'm not sure how many would accept that POV that way. I, for one, don't. I don't believe in some kind of genetic dividing line in the sand. Yes, my past is different than other women, but then, can you truly say all other women experieced the same past? Do life experieces define you, or do YOU define you? I believe the past is illusory, and the future is unknowable, so all we really have is the present, the now. In the now, I am a woman without the T qualifier. Just as many people don't discuss their felon convictions, or their inability to read, or their abortions, or whatever else might be considered a derogatory history, I don't ever tell anyone I'm a woman with a TS history.

Makncheese~
Welcome to the forum! I hope you find lots of interesting and fun things here. And that you'll share your experience, thoughts and feelings with us as well. I'd like to see more TS issues brought up.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm not sure if I'm going to be here much more than to see whats up.

GypsyKaren

06-02-2006, 02:15 PM

Steph, Kimberly, & Karen~
The differing opinions and different choices related to TS goals is what this thread is all about. And so its good to hear how unique each journey is. I do have a prob with non-ops pointing out how unhappy post-ops are.
~Kitty~

I'm just talking about the post-ops that I personally know, and it's not about career decisions. I'm certainly not saying or implying that all post-ops are unhappy, I'm sure there are plenty of them out there who are doing just great, and I'm happy for them. It's just that I do have a prob with those who try to point out to me that I'm unhappy, that's something that's happened more than just a few times.

Karen

~Dee~

06-02-2006, 02:34 PM

I'm not sure how many would accept that POV that way. I, for one, don't.

well, i think its a person to person thing.
personally, i dont believe that any amount of surgery will make me 'female'.
after my sugery is complete i will still consider myself a transsexual female.
i feel female now, and i will feel just as female afterwards ..
so the surgery isnt a magical transformation .. its just improving an aspect.
i know that a lot of the TS girls i know are also of the same mind.

as for ones past .. i am proud of my past and im not about to ditch it in order to blend better. somedays i believe its a miracle that i survived my past .. so i dont see why i would hide it away. but thats just me :happy:

but, we are all unique and have our own ideas and beliefs.

~Kitty GG~

06-02-2006, 02:46 PM

Karen~
Well that's just silly for someone else to give you a newsflash on whether you're happy or not. I'd ask them what color the sky is in their world..

Makncheese~
Having an abortion is a small ep in your life. Its not like living a whole childhood, early adulthood, and possibly quite a lot of adulthood as a dif gender.
All the pix of you before transition.. All the relationships.. For me.. I couldn't just deny that. I wouldn't go around telling people I meet casually about it all. But those who are the close to me, I'd want to be able to share this with.

That doesn't mean that you have to feel like I do.

L&H
~K

Makncheese

06-02-2006, 03:15 PM

Yes, we all have different views and experiences, none are better than others, just different...

Kitty:

I recall a quote from my college days that went something like this:
"hows ya see things depends on where ya' standin"

In my experience, once I tasted the absolute freedom from the T qualifier, its hard to go back to it.

I guess it depends on how important it is for one to be treated unequivocally as a woman. To me, it was, is, and will always be what I want. I don't mean the trivial things like having guys open doors for me, or hitting on me. I don't mean having some cop say "can I have your licence ma'am", or being comfortable changing in a womens locker room.

I mean complete assimilation into womens space. I mean being completely accepted as one by everyone, at all times, in all ways. No questions, no doubts, no funny looks, no rumors behind my back, no "Hey did you hear about {insert name}...she used to be a HE!". I have many women friends who, without exception, without condition, KNOW that I am female. It is a tremendously liberating feeling for me. You might guess that I'm not an "out and proud" person. I don't do conferences, or support groups, or socialize with other T women IRL.

As I said, once one experiences this level of acceptance, its VERY hard to go back to the T qualifier.

Dee...can I ask where you are in transition?

Maria D

06-02-2006, 03:20 PM

Kitty GG, in terms of 'being' TS, post op, and in terms of the past; is someone who was born blind and, due to medical science, was given the ability to see, still blind? Sure, their life thus far would have been blind, but they aren't afterwards.
Or perhaps someone with 12 fingers, who having them removed is still labelled polydactylic? Surely that isn't sense-making?
I tend to see 'TS' as something I have, rather than something I am. Yes it colours my life, but so do many things. Too much emphasis is put on defining with incorrect criteria, or at least, language. I am NOT, for instance, an optical lab technician; it is simply my job and my career, and it can change.
So being TS? The process of transition changes that. The fact I looked like a boy in my childhood photos is moot, it's who I was, which though related to who I am, isn't who I am. You were a little girl once Kitty GG, but you aren't now, right? You changed, right? You don't deny there was a time in your life when you had no breasts, couldn't tie laces, read and write, and wore a nappy, right? But it's not who you are now. Ok, childhood is tenuous since it's normal to experience it, but it's the best example I can think of of a change that you yourself have been through. You can change, and accept the past, without it defining who you are now. You WERE a child, you're over it. You can refer to it in a past tense, if you choose, but it's NOT who you are now. My point is, in my eyes anyway, I won't be TS after transition is finished, any more than my imagined blind man is blind after his sight is fixed.

Of course, then you get into the muddy waters of what a man or woman is... well, genetics doesn't cover it all, so no, I care not that I'm XY, many natal women are. And there also, BTW, we both make the big assumption that we are all normally chromosomed here. I have no idea what my makeup is, since I've not had it tested. Have you? ;)
I care not how I look either, FTM TSs look like women before transition, but they aren't, are they? So what is it that makes a man a man? What the person feels they are, surely?

Oh, and 'tell casually'? No, I wouldn't do that, too personal, but I wouldn't tell someone I hardly knew about my bruised big-toenail either, for the same reason.
Oh, damn, I just did. ;)

Take care :)

~Dee~

06-02-2006, 03:33 PM

Dee...can I ask where you are in transition?

im at the point where im starting my hormone treatment.

yeah, i guess im not post op and cant blend in and be seen as this goddess of femininity ..
but then, i do know that everyone in my life knows about me and accepts me as who i am... my friends i game with, my parents, the girls i go to school with .. they all are happy for me and supportive.
i wouldnt give up that feeling, its just too nice.
those who are close to me know about my past, they understand me and they help me.

so i see this as my acceptance and my blending.
no, i might not be fulltime yet (dammit end of year, where are you?).. but im still accepted.. the girls in school still offer me their bobby pins to pin my hair out of my face. :happy:

so, like you said .. we all see things different.

~Kitty GG~

06-02-2006, 03:51 PM

Maria~
Yes I was a little girl. And I have fond memories of being a little girl. And I am who I am cuz of my whole life experience.

I was also married before. That part of my life didn't cease to exist. It comes up. I'd have to hide so much of myself to only be who and what I am right now.

I'm not saying that anyone who wants to put that past away shouldn't be able to.

Everyone can identify however they want to.

I was asking Donna what she meant by her statement. Cuz from MY POINT OF VIEW.. and from those I've spoken to.. I hadn't heard anyone consider their physical body is now fixed.. and they are no longer TS.

I still think that living so many years in one gender has more lasting influence on a person then if they had an extra finger. And when that finger was removed .. I doubt they also had their birth cert amended.

Its great to blend in and not have anyone suspect that a person was not born female. But does that mean that it has no bearing on their future?

If they choose to enter a relationship.. what then? Do they not tell their partner?

If you were born blind and the miracle of science has given you sight. I doubt you'd go around denying that you were ever blind.

I didn't think I was being insulting. Or trampling other's beliefs. I don't consider TS females to be less than genetic females. If it was in my power to give all people the genetic identity they should have. I would.

~Kitty~

~Dee~

06-02-2006, 03:52 PM

is someone who was born blind and, due to medical science, was given the ability to see, still blind? Sure, their life thus far would have been blind, but they aren't afterwards.
Or perhaps someone with 12 fingers, who having them removed is still labelled polydactylic? Surely that isn't sense-making?

thats fine to say.
but they arent making you see again.
if you transition and you come out there other side of it with all the female parts and the ability to function as a female .. then sure, that could be classed as female, in my mind.

but transition doesnt do that, you still rely on little pills, and such, in order to continue with your life.
once ive transitioned i will still have to take my meds in order to keep up my end of the bargain .. ill need to be doing excercises and all those sorts of lovely things .. thats not a normal female duty.

so i dont see it like giving a blind person their sight .. more like giving them an eye that looks real and having them still use their cane to function.
thats why i still say that i wont be a woman as such .. ill be a transexual female. its not something that im going to go up to a stranger and say hey im ts.. how are you today? ..
but having said that, ive warned everyone in my life so that i can deal with any problems. im not out and proud and willing to become a martyr for the cause .. but im not going to hide away or else im leaving one prison for another, but with nicer furnishings.

its not like im trying to downplay how people feel, or that they are lesser beings or the like, just how i see it.
:happy: 0.02

Makncheese

06-02-2006, 04:11 PM

thats fine to say.
but they arent making you see again.
if you transition and you come out there other side of it with all the female parts and the ability to function as a female .. then sure, that could be classed as female, in my mind.

but transition doesnt do that, you still rely on little pills, and such, in order to continue with your life. once ive transitioned i will still have to take my meds in order to keep up my end of the bargain .. ill need to be doing excercises and all those sorts of lovely things .. thats not a normal female duty. As I said...hows you see things depends on where ya's standin'. Many many many women take estrogen daily. You think it was created just for us? And those exercises? And at some point, you are THROUGH with transtion, and all that it entails, both physically and psychologically. Life goes on, transition doesn't.

so i dont see it like giving a blind person their sight .. more like giving them an eye that looks real and having them still use their cane to function.
thats why i still say that i wont be a woman as such .. ill be a transexual female. its not something that im going to go up to a stranger and say hey im ts.. how are you today? .. All I can say is this: I thought the same thing, but now I don't. Transition changes many things, including your POV.
I can say with absolute certainty that you won't feel this way post op.

but having said that, ive warned everyone in my life so that i can deal with any problems. im not out and proud and willing to become a martyr for the cause .. but im not going to hide away or else im leaving one prison for another, but with nicer furnishings. Well, either you are out and proud, or you aren't. Its very hard to live in the "in between".

its not like im trying to downplay how people feel, or that they are lesser beings or the like, just how i see it.
:happy: 0.02

of course you're not. Your POV is just as valuable as mine.:)

~Dee~

06-02-2006, 04:42 PM

Many many many women take estrogen daily. You think it was created just for us?
And those exercises?

ok, thanks.. but i dont really need to know about your sex life.
my point was that its not a normal thing that females have to deal with.
no, i dont think that the oestrogen pill was invented for TS women, but this isnt normal behaviour for every young genetic girl, so saying that you are now suddenly just like every other girl on the planet, i think, is a bit beyond the capabilities in surgery.

And at some point, you are THROUGH with transtion, and all that it entails, both physically and psychologically. Life goes on, transition doesn't.

if transition ends and its all now over with, then once ive gone through my surgery i should leave this forum and move on ... cause im no longer welcome here? .. cause, id of moved on from all this, surely, if i were now female???
that doesnt make any sense to me.
post op or not, im coming back here.... ill still accept my past .. i will put myself into areas where i might just be discovered .. just because im done with all the surgery id of needed, doesnt mean that i suddenly erase everything and forget my past.

All I can say is this: I thought the same thing, but now I don't. Transition changes many things, including your POV.
I can say with absolute certainty that you won't feel this way post op.

you know what ... thanks, but i think i know me better than you do.
please dont speak for me, its very rude, not to mention patronizing and i dont really care for it.
if you have something to say, just say it, dont talk down to me.

Well, either you are out and proud, or you aren't. Its very hard to live in the "in between".

it might be hard, but its possible. im all for blending, so im not going to go around with a placard saying im TS and damn proud about it.
i like being able to walk into a room and not have everyone point and stare or giggle .. im allllll for that.
but, there are many situations that i think it warrants telling people, thats all.
i am proud of who i am, but that doesnt mean that i have to shout it from the rooftops .. just means im proud of who i am and i live my life without fear of being discovered or found out.

~Kitty GG~

06-02-2006, 04:51 PM

it might be hard, but its possible. im all for blending, so im not going to go around with a placard saying im TS and damn proud about it.
i like being able to walk into a room and not have everyone point and stare or giggle .. im allllll for that.
but, there are many situations that i think it warrants telling people, thats all.
i am proud of who i am, but that doesnt mean that i have to shout it from the rooftops .. just means im proud of who i am and i live my life without fear of being discovered or found out.

It means being able to go to the ceremony last nite with your parents.

It means still being able to display our wedding photo.

I can understand why other don't choose this way. But its false to say that all who go through transition will disown their past.

L&H
~K

Tamara Croft

06-02-2006, 04:58 PM

Well, either you are out and proud, or you aren't. Its very hard to live in the "in between".This is what you said to Dee. And then you said....
You might guess that I'm not an "out and proud" person. I don't do conferences, or support groups, or socialize with other T women IRL.
I don't ever tell anyone I'm a woman with a TS history.Sounds to me like you have some major issues yourself, telling Dee to get out there and be proud, yet you can't even acknowledge your own past, or other T Girls in RL. I hardly think you can come here preaching to others what you can't achieve yourself. You might be post op, but you certainly aren't post anything else.

Maybe you should get to know Dee before telling her how to live her life. Churches are for preachers, NOT this forum!

Makncheese

06-02-2006, 06:03 PM

This is what you said to Dee. And then you said....Sounds to me like you have some major issues yourself, telling Dee to get out there and be proud, yet you can't even acknowledge your own past, or other T Girls in RL. I hardly think you can come here preaching to others what you can't achieve yourself. Maybe you should get to know Dee before telling her how to live her life. Churches are for preachers, NOT this forum!

sheesh...

I'm not telling her how to live her life at all. I'm sorry if I came across as preaching. That wasn't my intent at all. I would have thought that as someone who is just begining transition, she might have liked to hear a POV from someone who is all done with it. I'm not here to get support, but to give it. I don't NEED to be here...

What i was getting at (and this is only my POV) is that transition changes your perspective about how you present yourself to the world. Accept it or not, but it does. Ask any post op how they feel 5 years after they transition if they have the same perspective as they did at the beginning. After a while of living without disclosing, it HURTS to have to come out with it. It really does! It changes how people treat you and its not fun.

I'm not telling Dee to be out and proud at all. What I meant was that its very difficult to be "out" with everyone (or anyone for that matter)and yet maintain control of your history to the point where you are accepted without question as female. Its just very dificult to do, because your issue is so salacious with so many people. It travels like fire. Once you out yourself to someone; even if its just a friend, it is very difficult to contain that info. I prefer to contain it by never mentioning it. So what I meant by that quote was that its an "all or nothing" situation...there is no in between.

As for me, what do you mean by issues? Do you mean that because I don't hang out with other women with a T history that I've got issues of some sort? Why would that be an issue of mine?

You might be post op, but you certainly aren't post anything else.

As to that last little comment, I can only wonder what you meant by it. Care to elaborate?

Makncheese

06-02-2006, 06:10 PM

ok, thanks.. but i dont really need to know about your sex life my point was that its not a normal thing that females have to deal with.
no, i dont think that the oestrogen pill was invented for TS women, but this isnt normal behaviour for every young genetic girl, so saying that you are now suddenly just like every other girl on the planet, i think, is a bit beyond the capabilities in surgery.

if transition ends and its all now over with, then once ive gone through my surgery i should leave this forum and move on ... cause im no longer welcome here? .. cause, id of moved on from all this, surely, if i were now female???
that doesnt make any sense to me.
post op or not, im coming back here.... ill still accept my past .. i will put myself into areas where i might just be discovered .. just because im done with all the surgery id of needed, doesnt mean that i suddenly erase everything and forget my past.

you know what ... thanks, but i think i know me better than you do.
please dont speak for me, its very rude, not to mention patronizing and i dont really care for it.
if you have something to say, just say it, dont talk down to me.

it might be hard, but its possible. im all for blending, so im not going to go around with a placard saying im TS and damn proud about it.
i like being able to walk into a room and not have everyone point and stare or giggle .. im allllll for that.
but, there are many situations that i think it warrants telling people, thats all.
i am proud of who i am, but that doesnt mean that i have to shout it from the rooftops .. just means im proud of who i am and i live my life without fear of being discovered or found out.

Ok. You win. I'm here as a post everything merely sharing my experience. Thats all.

No hostility intended.

Maria D

06-02-2006, 06:16 PM

thats fine to say.
but they arent making you see again.
if you transition and you come out there other side of it with all the female parts and the ability to function as a female .. then sure, that could be classed as female, in my mind.

but transition doesnt do that, you still rely on little pills, and such, in order to continue with your life.
once ive transitioned i will still have to take my meds in order to keep up my end of the bargain .. ill need to be doing excercises and all those sorts of lovely things .. thats not a normal female duty.
:happy: 0.02

My fiancee's mother had a hysterectomy 30 odd years ago, as far as I'm aware she's still considered female. My friend born without a bladder and various reproductive bits is, as far as I'm aware, still considered female. One of my Dad's friends born with a womb the size of a walnut, still, as you've guessed, known as a female. All manner of intersex people are still classified one sex or the other (though progress in the form of allowing them to choose later is being made), it's more than just reproductive bits you know. No, transition isn't perfect, but LIFE isn't perfect. When I'm finished, I'll be a female as much as my once bladderless friend, won't I? In my eyes anyway. If not, what is the difference?

Think of it like this: what's being given to the blind person isn't as good as 6/6 vision, but it's something, much better than nothing, and many people only have that something, and get by well. I see many people with impaired vision living as best they can, if a blind man complained that 'that' wasn't good enough, that they weren't given proper sight, I'd call that ungrateful. It's the best there is. In time, perhaps science will improve; until then, that's IT. Gutted I know, but that's life. You think my friend above wants kids? Tough, that's life, she deals with it, as best she can.

As to pills, millions if not billions of women take the same pills every day, though for a different reason. Hardly a big thing to complain about, unless you think it unfair that women 'have' to take said pill at all.

Kitty, you're right about it having more impact than having another finger. Regarding telling people you were blind, I suspect some people in that situation wouldn't tell. I certainly think they have a right to choose whether to or not, and even considering relationships, it's up to them to decide.
Me, everyone I know knows, simply because I just came out and carried on. No big leaving thing, no changing job or 'stuff'. Hiding isn't important to me, mainly because I'm lazy and couldn't be arsed to move ;) and also because I was secure in my job and friends enough to have hope outweigh fear. It's not the right way, just my way and it worked for me.

Take care :)

Ms. Donna

06-02-2006, 06:37 PM

Steph,

Kitty was asking people to share their experiences - why and how they made the choices they did. She did not ask us to critique oneanother.

Sounds to me like you setteled. Sounds to me like you weren't happy about it, but you did it. The question is... are you truely happy with your decision, or have you learned to live with it because you had to?

I guess what I am asking is... are you trying to convince us... or you?

Just because srs is not right for you what makes you think that it may not be right for someone else?

does agreeing with Karen and calling her a poster child for not having SRS give credence to your arguement for not having SRS?

Poster child? Is it really necessary for you to making a point at someone else's expense? Do you really need to trash the decisions and lives of others to support your position? Are you really that insecure about the decisions you have made?

We get it Steph - you're the 'real deal': you're a transsexual, you're transitioning and you're having SRS - the whole package. We get all of that - loud and clear.

If you would take a deep breath and step back, you'd see that no one here is arguing against SRS. What we are doing is sharing why it was not the right decision for us. It's right for you? Fantastic! Sing it's praises to all who will listen - I support your right to do so. But please have some respect for those of us who have found our place in life without surgery.

Sure, we have some regrets about the decisions we've made - but did we settle? Absolutely not.

There are other factors in our lives besides the presence or absence of a flap of skin between our legs. As Kimberly pointed out, our families are important to us - of equal or greater importance than some of our 'gender issues'. For me, to have 'transitioned' completely would have meant loosing my wife and children. This was a non-negotiable point: I wasn't then and am not now willing to give them up. For me, this meant finding and maintaining a balance - a compromise - between what I need and what my family needs. Sure, I could have walked away (as Kimberly could have) - but at what cost? For us, the price was too high - so we made a decision. And like all difficult decisions, it took us time to adjust to it.

Is it a perfect solution? Of course not, but it's works and it's livable - for us.

In many ways, the decision to not transition completely is more selfish - and difficult - than if we had just gone all the way. We have not only subjected ourselves to a potentially more difficult life, but we have done the same to our families as well - subjecting them to a life for which they never asked. Yet both sides - our families and us - make it work because we each consider the other worth the effort.

It doesn't make us better - just different.

Look, here's the bottom line: Pre-Op/Post-Op Transsexuals tend to have a very different mindset from the Non-Op Transsexuals and Transgenderists: we both walk different paths. As a rule, you are driven by a need for congruency between mind and body: that's all well and good and you should do what you need to do to be happy. Non-Ops and Transgenderists are not necessarily as driven like this. We have learned to live with / be comfortable with our bodies sans surgery for a variety of reasons. They are our reasons and you are in no position to pass judgement on them.

We each have to find the path which is right for us and sharing our experiences is the best way for that to happen. We don't presume to know what is right for you - so please afford us the same courtesy .

Love & Stuff,
Donna

Ms. Donna

06-02-2006, 06:54 PM

I don't understand what you mean when you say that when the sex of the body has been corrected the person is not a TS anymore.
Most of the transsexual women with whom I have spoken do not consider themselves to be transgender. They are women in an anatomically incorrect body. After SRS, they do not identify as either TG or TS - they consider themselves to be normal women.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but it is how they have expressed their definition of themselves.

I've mostly heard post-op TSs still consider themselves TS since genetically they are still the opposite (trans) sex.
I'm not (nor do I ever) speaking in absolutes. There are those who feel as you say and I've spoken with them as well, but the vast majority I have encountered feel as above.

As I said earlier, it all depends on how deeply engrained one's belief in the Cisgender Ideal is.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

tori-e

06-03-2006, 10:05 AM

Wow this thread is huge!

If you are TS or your So is TS..

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

Love, Hugs, & Thanx
~Kitty~

B) What I've done...
- lots of asthetics ie: hair removal
- voice therapy
- psych assesment
- HRT
- joined/attended support/social groups - this has helped big time
- come out to many people

A) What I want to do...
- finish electrolysis
- trachea shave
- rhinoplasty
- orchiectomy
- gain acceptance
- continue to grow as Tori - biggest one

GRS sounds great but seems like such a big deal from a health (and cost) standpoint. I keep thinking that you only NEED it if having a relationship with a man is important. But I like girls!

I've taken a quote from Donna Rose's website. http://www.donnarose.com/ I can relate to this so much....

"So many people seem to focus on the outdated perception that to be transsexual is simply about sex or gender - to become a man or a woman. Perhaps not surprisingly, many find this so far outside of their comprehension as to become unimaginable, unacceptable, unforgivable. A turning point in my own journey occurred after one of those "A-ha!" moments when everything suddenly seemed to make sense - when the realization struck me that it wasn't just about gender. It was about "self". This profoundly personal journey of fulfillment - that I neither asked for nor really wanted - was to become myself. The fact that gender - specifically the affect that it has on my interaction with the world and my perception of myself in it - was the key to unlock the door to my own personal sense of happiness is merely a component in that quest. It took a long, long time for me to understand that."

For me the "self" is Tori. So in a way I became myself sometime ago. All the other "transition" stuff is good but doesn't make me more me.

Tori

Kimberley

06-03-2006, 10:07 AM

Hi Kehleyr
I think that the point Karen (and I) were trying to make is not that post ops are all unhappy with their transition but more with the circumstances of living past it. A lot of post ops still have the problems of facial presentation which of course can cost up to $100,000 worth of plastic surgery to alter while others pass quite easily without it or with only a little.
This presentation can cause some serious problems with discrimination, particularly in the workplace. Consider someone who was previously a construction worker now trying to find employment in the trades as a female. If she were hired, she would face a lot of discrimination either overt or covertly. I know the RLE is supposed to help with recognition of this sort of problem but it doesnt always. One of the post ops I spoke of was a tenured prof. After SRS the university built a case and let her go. She did sue and won but is still unemployed five years later. Today she tries to run a home based business helping TG's find their way. It barely pays her bills.
I think that each person is different and living in different circumstances so in that vein, perhaps the Benjamin Standards of Care are counterproductive. Much comes down to the medical people and their willingness to bend to the circumstance without allowing a candidate to unduly influence the process to the point of making a mistake. It is a fine line for everyone.

:hugs:
Kimberley.

btmgrl6

06-03-2006, 10:36 AM

My arguement wasn't about the ones who choose not to transition for whatever reasons.......They have to do what's right for them. But then to come back and say that "it is too easy " or that they should just be happy with thier "true gender" and that "I read a study"...that says "most or a lot are unhappy sounds like they are saying. I have my reasons for [B]NOT[B]transitioning, so don't question me. However your reasons for transitioning are questionable.
As far as my reference to "the poster child"...it was just that, a reference, same as the original poster used. I didn't put anybody down.
Kimberly and I have different slants on some things.. we have since agreed...to disagree, in a friendly manner.

I aslo read a "study" that said after following 28 who underwent SRS for 5 years 28 out of 28 said that they were happy with thier decision. A pro right? There were also some cons in the study. So maybe,depending on our mind set...
it's easier to believe the part that goes along with our thinking,instead of looking at the whole picture and be objective....just a thought.

GypsyKaren

06-03-2006, 11:00 AM

I've never heard anyone here say "don't question me" or imply it. Everyone is just giving their point of view, it's impossible to explain it all and wrong to take bits and pieces and try to make something out of it.

Let's just say that we all have our own reasons for being on the path we're on, and remember we're here to support one another, okay?

Karen

~Dee~

06-03-2006, 11:09 AM

My fiancee's mother had a hysterectomy 30 odd years ago, as far as I'm aware she's still considered female. My friend born without a bladder and various reproductive bits is, as far as I'm aware, still considered female.

and im not saying that any of those people are not female so settle down would you. geez, youre making it sound like im attacking your whole whole family and all the people youve ever known.

you say that you are trans now and will be female later .. thats fine.
but you had said that its sort of a harsh thing to say and that women dont think like that .. well, i do .. the other few girls that are also transitioning or transitioned that i know also feel the way i do .. i know one other that thinks how you do .. all is fine.

i have a friend who is an amputee from his elbow joint down ... he has this nifty little attachment that allows him to use his arm, that the docs gave him .. does that mean he is not no longer an amputee?
im TS female now, ive come to the conclussion that this is who i am .. and like others i have my own personal path to go down in order to transition .. im transitioning because inside i dont feel like the person that i display to the world. im not complete.
after ive transitioned it still wont take away my past, my experiences, my life or make my body 100% genetically female. so when i choose to keep the term transexual female ... its not because i think its some stigma that i just have to carry around with me for the rest of my life.. its because im proud of where i came from and where i got to and im not ashamed of the fact that im TS by the end of it all.

if a blind man complained that 'that' wasn't good enough, that they weren't given proper sight, I'd call that ungrateful.

so are you thinking im being ungrateful now?
im not. im going through the grs .. and im amazed that they can do so much .. its great and wonderous to me.
just because i dont think it makes you a genetic girl doesnt mean that its a waste of time and money ..
id be grateful to be given the chance to go as far as it can take me .. but that doesnt mean that im going to ignore how i feel or who i was in the past.

You think my friend above wants kids? Tough, that's life, she deals with it, as best she can.

i have no idea what this was meant to prove or disprove.
im sorry that your friend cant have kids.
i cant have kids either and i know how it can be a hard hurdle to overcome.

As to pills, millions if not billions of women take the same pills every day, though for a different reason. Hardly a big thing to complain about, unless you think it unfair that women 'have' to take said pill at all.

and now im complaining about women ... oh my.
look maria, i dont know how you are reading this lot into what im writing ..
im mearly defending what me and my wife had written earlier.
if you think that transition changes you .. then thats fine, say whatever you want.
im just saying that unless there comes a time that they can swap me another body, then im not going to consider myself genetically female.
ill keep the TS part, cause im not about to throw out my wedding photos and ditch all those priceless memories that i have just to blend into society better.

now that ive stopped hurting over it, i dont mind being TS at all .. there are a hell of a lot worse things that i could be.

~Kitty GG~

06-03-2006, 12:09 PM

DUDES!!!!! and I mean that in a totally non-gender way..

The purpose of this thread was to let everyone express what transitioning means to them.

To some its go all the way post-op. To others its understanding and accepting themselves and then presenting as the preferred or true gender. And to others its any of the gzillions points in between.

There are many reasons for this. Some of them are as unfair as a lack of money. Some are because of outside influences. Some are personal.

The reason that I personally asked Donna why someone who was TS but transitioned, would no longer consider themselves TS .. is because of the myriad of options for transition.

I wasn't thinking that only post-ops were women (sorry to an F2M's.. I'm using women as the example here.. ) I take the idea of "correcting the body" to mean to whatever degree you have chosen or are able to achieve. After all .. even a post-op can't take any height away.. or have surgery to correct the size of hands and feet.

What I was thinking is that Karen for example has completed her transition (I think..) and so does she now consider herself no longer TS? And Amelie has transitioned as far as she's able to go.. through no fault of her own.. so does that make her no longer TS?

Or is this just a privilege of post-ops? Cuz I don't see that post-ops are any more enlightened than any other TS.

What I was hearing back is that those who no longer wish to be considered TS really just don't want to be found out. They're actually living stealth. And some went so far as to say that all TSs would choose that.

I have to ask those who can speak for everyone else's feelings and preferences.. "what color IS the sky in your world?"

I have one final point on this.. IF said individuals consider themselves well and truly women.. NOT at all TS. Then why are they on this forum?

I felt rather insulted for all here who won't go all the way with transition, for any reason.. or who won't come out in the end absolutely passing. I think that many judge transition in those terms. While I judge transition this way: Find whatever is available and you are able and comfortable doing.. that will help you to be comfortable in your own skin.

So... those are my thoughts on the debates that have been raging in this thread.

Tori~
Thanx for answering. Hope you wore a hard hat when you entered.. LOL

GRS sounds great but seems like such a big deal from a health (and cost) standpoint. I keep thinking that you only NEED it if having a relationship with a man is important. But I like girls!

I agree that not everyone transitioning needs to go the GRS route.
Thanx for that quote. Its wonderful. I think I'll cut and paste it to keep handy.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Thanx for participating here, everyone.
I'm looking forward to hearing from more of you.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

btmgrl6

06-03-2006, 12:37 PM

A point of view is one thing. Every situation is different as many have said. My beef is with these so called studies that are being quoted,and blanket statements that seem to cover us as a group..."a lot" are unhappy "most" regret. reading a single study, or the experiences of one or two people doesn't provide a true sample.
To me,(I may be wrong) mentioning the things like this ( the cons) are arguements against transitioning. Statements like "we should be happy with our true selves " sounds like it's against. Eons ago... we survived without Srs, why do we need it now...Sounds a lot like against.Sounds alot like I am happy without transitioning...why can't you be too? If that is just your opinion come right out and say that this is how I feel about me... don't make a statement that cover the rest of us or, "most" of us ,or even a "a lot" of us...because if you are not "most" or "all" or even "alot of us"...how can you know, and how can you say?

MsDonna

I never questioned anyones's reasons for not transistioning.....my arguement was for those who question for transitioning.

Steph

Ms. Donna

06-03-2006, 12:43 PM

I have to ask those who can speak for everyone else's feelings and preferences.. "what color IS the sky in your world?"

Whatever it is, you know it's the right colour.

I felt rather insulted for all here who won't go all the way with transition, for any reason.. or who won't come out in the end absolutely passing. I think that many judge transition in those terms. While I judge transition this way: Find whatever is available and you are able and comfortable doing.. that will help you to be comfortable in your own skin.

Welcome to our world! :)

One of the problems I saw with combining the TG and TS forums was this very debate: it always starts off well intentioned but ends on a sour note. It's not that we can't get along, but what winds up happening is that it becomes an idealogical debate - like debating who's religion is the 'right' one. No one is going to give in to the other. But, if we can all agree that our choices are right for us, there's no reason to not get along.

This is, in part, the reason that there is no real Transgender community... There's just too much infighting. Very sad...

Love & Stuff,
Donna

Tamara Croft

06-03-2006, 12:57 PM

My beef is with these so called studies that are being quoted <snip>Just because they aren't here in black and white, does not mean they don't exist, which seems to be what you are saying. I've also read a lot of information on the internet (don't ask me to quote it, it's various sites I didn't save) and I have also read that a lot of people go through with the op and have regretted it later on.

If you haven't seen these studies where 'alot' or 'most of us' have said they regret it, how can you comment? Just because it states 'alot' doesn't mean that includes all TS's, it is based on those that took part in the study.

~Dee~

06-03-2006, 01:03 PM

Welcome to our world! :)

This is, in part, the reason that there is no real Transgender community... There's just too much infighting. Very sad...

it is sad.
but it can also be a very demeaning and harsh community.
there seems to be this unwritten hierarchy, that people have touched on, and that just makes me so damn mad that i cant describe it.
ive spoken with other TS's and when they find out im not on hormones yet.. thats it .. they kinda drift away ..
im no longer good enough for their presence.

so what? ... we are going to get into a contest on who is more TS/TG ?
bugger orf.

i also seem to get told by a couple of people "well, after youve had surgery you will understand" or "after surgery your thoughts will completely change"
and this can really get old fast.
i didnt like it when people said to me "youll understand when you grow up" and i dont like being talked down to now.

to me, i think its great that there is such a wide range of diverse groups within the community ... it means that no two stories are the same .. if we were all the same then once youd heard one persons story .. youd give up making more friends, itd be just plain boring after that.

i am glad to hear that there are people who have transitioned without hormones or the need for surgery .. and im also happy to hear about those that are on hormones and no surgery ... just as i am happy to hear about going all the way.
im not going to judge people because of their ideas on where they lay on the TS/TG scale .. its just too moronic in my mind.

and to all those people that ive talked to and have thought themselves better than others :tongueout

tori-e

06-03-2006, 01:06 PM

Tori~
Thanx for answering. Hope you wore a hard hat when you entered.. LOL

Yes! Next time I'll read the whole thread first! :D

:hugs:
Tori

Tamara Croft

06-03-2006, 01:09 PM

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

After recently discovering that Tam is not just a fetish CD as I thought, I can now answer this question. Tam is quite content living the way she is now, although the limited dressing does make her very depressed. I don't know what the future holds, I don't know if she will ever transition.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

None right now, but I think this will probably change in the future. Tam is happier when enfemme, but right now this isn't an option. She is still embarrassed about the whole thing, so discussing future plans can sometimes be like getting blood out of a stone.

Priss

06-03-2006, 01:48 PM

Kitty.

Those of us who have had SRS, etc... Identify ourselves in as many different ways as the rest of the people here. The general idea, and in a perfect world, is this however...

Once you've had the surgery, you are the correct gender and no longer trans...

In a perfect world this works and we can just go about the rest of our lives as any other person of our gender. But this isn't a perfect world. We still live in a world where if something like this is found out, that people will see us as non-human and something that won't be missed if they decide to just kill us. That's partially why some of us still identify ourselves as a post-op TS, it reminds us to be careful out there. The other reasons we are so differentiate in the terms that we apply to ourselves is due to the varied experiences and struggles we all go through. No two people have exactly the same life experience going through all of this.

There are those however who do call it good, and disappear into the normal society. A lot of those however live in fear of ever being found out.

tori-e

06-03-2006, 01:48 PM

it is

ive spoken with other TS's and when they find out im not on hormones yet.. thats it .. they kinda drift away ..
im no longer good enough for their presence.

so what? ... we are going to get into a contest on who is more TS/TG ?
bugger orf.

i also seem to get told by a couple of people "well, after youve had surgery you will understand" or "after surgery your thoughts will completely change"
and this can really get old fast.
i didnt like it when people said to me "youll understand when you grow up" and i dont like being talked down to now.

to me, i think its great that there is such a wide range of diverse groups within the community ... it means that no two stories are the same .. if we were all the same then once youd heard one persons story .. youd give up making more friends, itd be just plain boring after that.

i am glad to hear that there are people who have transitioned without hormones or the need for surgery .. and im also happy to hear about those that are on hormones and no surgery ... just as i am happy to hear about going all the way.
im not going to judge people because of their ideas on where they lay on the TS/TG scale .. its just too moronic in my mind.

and to all those people that ive talked to and have thought themselves better than others :tongueout

For heavens sake! I know lots of great people that are pure CD's and a few that are post-op. Instead of breaking our community in to even smaller pieces, we should be working to together to make a stronger community. As a group we face of lot adversity and need to educate the general public that we are just people. There are a lot of people working for TG rights and trying align ourselves with the LGBT comminity, it the first "easier" step out. This makes us stronger and more visible.

While I was at Esprit, I had the pleasure watching a presentation with Mara Keisling. If you want to debate with someone, help her in her fight for TG rights. In the states, she is working against a right wing (hiding as Christians) hate group, that is trying to undermine the TG movement. You know, "Why did God make TG's??? – For target practice of course!" These people are filled with hate for TG's. But instead of getting angry with them, try to understand that they are people just like us, but have grown up with a lot of hate and intolerance. What they need is education and something to fill that hole in their heart.

Boy, I digress!

Dee, I'm on hormones and would still like to be your friend!

With much love,
sincerely,
Tori

GypsyKaren

06-03-2006, 04:16 PM

Oh geez, will everybody please calm down? Go smoke a cigarette or something.

Steph, nobody's making blanket statements about anybody, they're just citing individual sources and identifying it as such. Nobody said "we" should be happy as is, they said, myself included, "I'm" happy as is. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone what to do or what they need to be content, everybody's different.

Am I through with my transition? Yes, at least for now, happy as is. As long as I'm sharing my life with Kat, I'll go no further because I see no reason to mess with success. To me, it's not just my life, but our life, and a good one it is. Am I compromising somehow? Perhaps, but life is full of compromises.The key is finding balance, and we've done that, so I have absolutely no complaints, none whatsoever.

Do I still consider myself TS? Yes I do, and always will because I'm not a genetic woman. I see nothing wrong with that, to me it's just a simple fact of nature. In any event, before someone jumps on that, let's save it for another day.

It really saddens me that there is such a rift in the TS community, and yes there is one. Like what's been said before, I've been to several TS meetings where I wasn't taken seriously because I don't do hormones. What bloody difference should that make? We're all the same, yet we're all different, but we're all in the same boat together and we'll all get a lot further if there aren't any leaks.

Karen

Kimberley

06-03-2006, 08:22 PM

Marlena Dahlstrom

06-03-2006, 08:57 PM

For heavens sake! I know lots of great people that are pure CD's and a few that are post-op. Instead of breaking our community in to even smaller pieces, we should be working to together to make a stronger community. As a group we face of lot adversity and need to educate the general public that we are just people. There are a lot of people working for TG rights and trying align ourselves with the LGBT comminity, it the first "easier" step out. This makes us stronger and more visible.

If you don't mind a word from someone who's "just a crossdresser"....

I've seen these sorts of "who's in/who's out" wars before in other fields and it may make more sense to thing in terms of the transgender communities. In other words, yes we do have differences -- and at times it's important to recognize them. (As has been mentioned previously, there are discussions TSs may have about transitioning that aren't going to concern the average CD and possibly the average TG.) Likewise, not everyone is going to have the same needs and concerns. As Jamison Green said, there's no one way to be transgender.

But despite those differences, we also have a lot in common and that's where being allies in a common cause makes us stronger than we are as individuals (or smaller groups). After all, those who discriminate against us rarely bother to ask if one is a transsexual, transgenderist, crossdresser or drag queen.

Wendi {LI NY}

06-03-2006, 10:24 PM

I am pre -op ts .i been on hormone for 4 yrs and electrosis is all most finish [thank god]. not living 24/7 as of yet ..Wife is supported to me .
i am going to get FFS in Oct with Dr Speigel in Boston .getting forehead reduction ,brow shaving ,nose and face lift . I cant wait for it to happen .:)
I dont know if i will get srs in the future but it may happen in the future .
Just to live a female means the world to me and srs would be the icing .
:hugs: hugs Wendi:

~Dee~

06-04-2006, 04:02 AM

Dee, I'm on hormones and would still like to be your friend!

awwww .. fanks :happy:
we are always open to new friends.

i know that there are post op TS's who do not follow this 'holier than though' sort of approach.
we have a Post op TS that lives just a few streets away and she is the nicest person you could possibly imagine .. she wouldnt discriminate against anyone at all.
but then there are others who seem to think that if you havent been on hormones, or you arent young enough or arent old enough .. then you dont make the cut.

kinda weird really.
i mean .. isnt it that most transgendered people, be is CD'ers, TS or whatever, start out pretty much feeling alone?
i know i did .. i was certain that i was the only one who could possible be around who was like this ... and then i noticed that there were more .. hell, there are lots just in our local area!
omg! i thought .. this is great.
now ... how does it go from that 'im alone' to not needing people so badly that you are willing to push most TG's away?

doesnt really make much sense to me ...

~Kitty GG~

06-04-2006, 04:30 AM

Things got kinda heated in here.

But I don't see that as a bad thing. Because look at how we've all pulled together in end.

When the disagreements started it wasn't so much that everyone thought they were right and everyone else was wrong.. But that most of us has had someone else tell us what's best for us regarding transition, at some time in the past.

But now I think its come clear that we all respect the different choices. And maybe we've found some glue to help us understand eachother and stick together.

Marlena~
Of course we welcome your thoughts.

The q's I posed were for TS/TG.. and the SOs. I was after the actual transition plans that people have. And so I wasn't looking for any hypothetical transitions from those who don't intend to transistion. Not that those wouldn't be interesting.. but I was saving that for another time.

I didn't think far enough ahead to realize that CDs or anyone who isn't transitioning might want to add a comment. To maybe cheer someone on.

So please consider this an invitation to do so!

I only ask that if you do NOT intend to transition.. that you don't post fantasy transitions.

We have pretty much hashed over the disagreements so I also ask that comments be given in the spirit of togetherness and not to shoot down an opinion that you disagree with or that doesn't work for you.

Wendi~

Thanx for you input!
It makes me smile to hear when someone is moving foward and living their life through transition.

i am going to get FFS in Oct with Dr Speigel in Boston
I've heard Dr Speigel mentioned by quite a lot.. I'll have to do some web research and learn a bit about him.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Thanx again everybody!!!!!!
L&H
~K

Kimberley

06-04-2006, 08:09 AM

Kehleyr,
Thank you for the insightful and well thought out post. It was wonderful.

Kimberley.

Briarose GG

06-04-2006, 09:44 AM

If you are TS or your So is TS..

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?
I don't think he is certain at this time. He says he wants everything North of the belt done but I am not sure he will be satisfied once he has gone that far. (Just my anxiety speaking:o )

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?
He is unable at this time to do anything other than gather info.

I'm not doing a survery.. or just being nosy. I'm genuinely interested and would like to get to know the TS faction here a lot better.

Love, Hugs, & Thanx
~Kitty~ Briarose GG

Kim E

06-04-2006, 10:51 AM

CaptLex

06-04-2006, 01:08 PM

I've seen these sorts of "who's in/who's out" wars before in other fields and it may make more sense to thing in terms of the transgender communities. . . . . But despite those differences, we also have a lot in common and that's where being allies in a common cause makes us stronger than we are as individuals (or smaller groups). After all, those who discriminate against us rarely bother to ask if one is a transsexual, transgenderist, crossdresser or drag queen.
Yes, exactly true. I see these kinds of differences and self-defeating behaviors in every kind of community. For example, it's not unlike African-Americans who discriminate against each other because some are darker-skinned and some are lighter-skinned, when in fact they should band together against all who would discriminate against them. Likewise, in the Hispanic community there are some who scorn others who don't speak Spanish or whose features make them "too white" to be Hispanic. This kind of stupidity divides the community instead of keeping it strong and able to fight discrimination from others who are uninformed and prejudiced.

So it's the same with the CD/TG/TS community, it seems. How are we going to put up a united front against those who would oppress us, if we're going to segregate and bicker amongst ourselves? It's human nature, I suppose, but I don't have any patience for this. If another TG/TS person doesn't want anything to do with me because he or she can't relate to my situation, then so be it. I won't have anything to do with that person either. It's a shame, but I'd just move on. I don't have the time nor the inclination to deal with stupidity.

~Kitty GG~

06-04-2006, 02:09 PM

First off, concerning "studies" of post-op transwomen, who regret having SRS. To my knowledge, there exists nowhere, a broad comprehensive study to indicate this. Not to say, these regretful women don't exist, I just can't believe in the large numbers we are led to believe. Without clinical research involving the tens of thousands of post-ops, in the US alone, I doubt the validity of these 'studies'. To me, they fall in the same realm as polls and surveys conducted by political parties and news organizations.

Kim

I dunno of any particular studies that show this.. but even if there are.. consider this:

I recently had a proceedure called uterine ablation. Now when I was looking for info about it I found that it doesn't have a hugely high success rate.. That of those who've had it AND REPORTED BACK.. the majority were disappointed.

Well I went ahead and had it done. Its been a year plus now. And guess what.. I'm totally happy with the results. So IF I REPORTED BACK I'd be a success to go on the statistics.

But since I have no trouble with it.. I haven't felt the need to go back.

I wonder if its not a case of the squeaky wheel. How many post-ops who are happy are gonna bother being so vocal?

Who's doing the studies? Is it someone who would be way more apt to get the unhappy ones?

We know a few post-ops. Some are happy and some are unhappy.. but in general... from my own personal experience.. the happy ones were happy about themselves before surgery and viewed it like so many here do.. "the icing on the cake". If for some reason they were unable to have the op.. they'd have still been happy. And those who are unhappy were unhappy before. They were looking for a way to FIX things, not always just thier physical bodies.. but their whole life sometimes.

There are quite a few people in the world who don't know how to be happy.

Think about people who win the lottery and are still miserable after. People who attain any goal in life.. and are still unhappy. I think that if a study was done about lottery winners we might hear how its a bad thing to win the lottery.. LOL

JUST MY THOUGHTS.. I'M NOT MAKING ANY HARD & FAST RULES OR DISCREDITING ANY STUDIES.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Briarose~

Thanx for answering.

Communication is the key.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Tamara Croft

06-04-2006, 06:33 PM

First off, concerning "studies" of post-op transwomen, who regret having SRS. To my knowledge, there exists nowhere, a broad comprehensive study to indicate this. http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html
http://www.realityresources.com/regret.htm
http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/transsexual_surgery_its_pros_and_cons.htm

But there is a lot of info out there if you look. I've not read all of this, but it shows that some do regret having srs.

heather_nouveau

06-04-2006, 06:58 PM

If you are TS or your So is TS..

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

I'm not doing a survery.. or just being nosy. I'm genuinely interested and would like to get to know the TS faction here a lot better.

Love, Hugs, & Thanx
~Kitty~

Hi Kitty!

I am (lifelong, but recently diagnosed) a TS.

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

A: Although it is still early days for me, I fully intend to begin laser/electrolysis, hormones, probably multiple cosmetic procedures. I'm fairly certain I'm going to have SRS eventually.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

B: I've been shaving (full body) for over a year now, and have been on herbals, so that's about the extent of my steps thus far.

Hope this helps,

Heather :D

OniKoneko

06-04-2006, 11:12 PM

Since you say you only need to be physically modified a bit.. and there is a lot that's possible today.. why do you also say that you will wait till they can make you a genetic girl?

I didn't mean that I wait until they can do that to do anything... I was just making a silly "Oh I can't wait until..." comment, you know? Like an overly optimistic, excited girl who wants to find out if she got a pony for christmas. I do only need to be physically modified a bit and, then, I hope I can be a force of cuteness that can cause acute (pun intended :P) occular bleeding just by doing one of those super-cute poses or something. I'd do that on the bus and cackle as people scream while blood pours from their eyes. Yesssss~ MYAHAHAHAHAHAH-...a... Ahem... I mean... I like flowers and butterflies... >.> And... making... <.< cookie... >.> pie... <.> cakes...?

I think I need sleep. I'm a bit hyper... :\ Don't mind me...

~Kitty GG~

06-05-2006, 12:52 PM

But there is a lot of info out there if you look. I've not read all of this, but it shows that some do regret having srs.

Some do regret srs. People regret things all the time.

Even reading those three reports I have yet to see any high numbers of regret. And those reports cited things like unrealistic expectation, psychosis, and life problems that stemmed back before transition as reasons for the regret.

All in all its like everything else in life. If we're unprepared for it or have unrealistic expectations, or aren't capable of making the decision in the first place.. We're more likely to regret it later and probably blame it and everyone else for our misery.

But those who have realistic expectations, are capable of making the decision, and take the time and the steps to be prepared, and to be fully accepting of themselves and their limitations, and are happy in general .. will probably not have regrets.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Heather~
Thanx for adding to the thread.
Look forward to cheering you along the way.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Kim E

06-05-2006, 02:03 PM

Thanks, Kitty, for your post and the ability to explain my point better than I could.

Kim

joanlynn28

06-05-2006, 11:13 PM

I would say that the more I dwell on this issue the more likely I am headed towards the full transition. I have come to the conclusion that I now know that I am definitately transgendered. If I am even questioning myself if I am or am not TG than I must be TG. If I wasn't TG than why would I even be questioning myself if I am or not. Of course I will go all the way, HRT, SRS, etc. I do know what is envolved, I use to read up on the subject in my mother's nursing magazines articles on the care of post-op surgery. And it is a little of my father's fault, he taught me that if you are going to do something do it right. To me anything short of SRS is just not doing the job correctly. And if I was just simply a crossdresser I wouldn't have these feelings that I have. I could probable eliminate dressing in my life if I was just simply a CD. But I can't because I am TG so there.

pattyme

06-27-2006, 09:03 PM

So far,

Dressing every oportunity, makeup and all 42 years and counting. Started at counting at five.

Removed all hair, except my locks, about 5 years, on and of for 10. Eyebrows and arms for the last year. Hidding in public - no one has even asked?

Worked on my voice for a year now - singalong with Nora Jonnes mostly.

Came out to my mum - easier than I thought. Got to work on the rest.

Inventoried eveything I could think of needed to transition. Thoughts, strategies, costs etc. If anyone needs a list or wants to start a thread on this it would be good for all.

Started seeing a therapist, 4th session tomorrow.

Actualy went for my first checkup in well ...... ever. No good news there.
Don't wait so long is the lesson here.

I want to try living as a girl - no question in my mind. It's about finding a place to be happy and trying things. The goal is to find out what makes me happy - I won't let the question of being a real girl or boy (for that matter) interfear with this quest. I don't want to make others unhappy this is the real conundrum.

Patty
___________________________
On the road too ..........

Caitlintgsd

06-27-2006, 09:07 PM

Ha. I sing along with Sheryl Crow. I never actually told my parents about me. They caught me enough times in my youth that I figure they already know. That and the fact that they're 2500 miles away. We don't get together much. We were a pretty dysfunctional family for the most part.

~Kitty GG~

06-28-2006, 09:45 AM

Joanlynn~
Thanx for posting. You're in very good company here!

Patty~
Sounds like you're coming along very well.

Inventoried eveything I could think of needed to transition. Thoughts, strategies, costs etc. If anyone needs a list or wants to start a thread on this it would be good for all.
It would great if you started a thread on the subject. If you're not comfortable doing that.. please do post your list in this thread.

All info is good. And it all shows support.

Caitlin~
I sing along to Disturbed.. wonder what that says.. :D

Kim~
I'm glad I started this thread. I had no idea we had so many other TS's to draw support from and to give support to. Its wonderful.

I do get frustrated when so many talk about how SRS is regretted.. that so-and-so had a bad experience.. yada yada. I mean we all have had bad experiences driving cars.. but the benefits outweigh those.. I still drive.. do you?

Look at all the people who regret marriages or how they raised their kids. And yet the general public doesn't go around saying DON'T MARRY OR HAVE KIDS.. cuz Bob regrets doing it. Its just ridiculous to my logical mind. As with every decision in life the question should be "is this the best choice FOR ME?"

You could regret what you had for dessert last nite. Regrets are part of life. But not living.. that's the biggest regret I can imagine.

Thanx again everyone!!!

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

JenniferMint

06-28-2006, 11:34 PM

If you are TS or your So is TS..

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

I'm a pre-op M2F. I've gotten a bilateral orchiectomy (done by Dr. Murray Kimmel of Philadelphia, PA, who is possibly the only urologist in Canada/US who openly doesn't require psych letters for this) so far and started on estrogen HRT (no prescription, ordered from Thailand pharmacy).

I also started voice training earlier this month. I haven't gone out presenting as female yet, though---my social life is primarily online.

I'm not sure how far I intend on going ultimately. Possibly all the way up to SRS if my experiences are favorable. One thing I really wanted to do that I've gotten done is getting the bilateral orchiectomy, though (I've always hated the effects of testosterone on my body, no matter whether I'm male or female).

~Kitty GG~

06-29-2006, 11:53 AM

I'm a pre-op M2F. I've gotten a bilateral orchiectomy (done by Dr. Murray Kimmel of Philadelphia, PA, who is possibly the only urologist in Canada/US who openly doesn't require psych letters for this) so far and started on estrogen HRT (no prescription, ordered from Thailand pharmacy).

Jennifer~
Is it important to you that you don't have to go through pshrinks?

My opinions about that have already been stated.. but I'll say again that I think that everyone should be accountable for their decisions and therefore be allowed to make their own decisions w/o having a pshrink give them permission slips. OR if they figure we're not able to make these decisions then they should be taking care of us.. I want a pony and all the ice cream I can eat.. ...... and to not have to work or pay bills.. Either I'm capable of making life decisions.. or I'm not.

I wonder also why you chose to go w/o a prescription for HRT.

I figure that I can decide whether or not I should alter my body.. whether I should go on take meds .. etc. But I don't have the medical equipment or expertise to evaluate my health risks or do blood tests etc. So I would want to be monitored by my doc for those things.

Thanx for your input.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~
:star::star::star: