Some Form of Acceptance?

[Xandra]

Mainstream society by its very nature imposes unspoken gender rules on us all; for most males, therefore, public displays of feminine behaviour are generally met with disapproval - or sometimes worse.

Growing up, when out with a group of male friends I’d always blend in but would at the same time push that feeling of being “different” deeper into the subconscious, where it sat for a very long time. Don’t think my friends would have understood what I was talking about! After all, as Jon Donne said “No man is an island”. Accepting that I want to dress in women’s clothes was a huge obstacle for me for a long time and I just those thoughts to go away. Only over the past 6 months has self-acceptance come (this forum has been a godsend as I never imagined there might be so many people with similar feelings!)

After getting over the denial I realised that this was no “passing phase“; after denial came gradual self-acceptance; and from self-acceptance, contentment. Through all of this emerged a happier, more relaxed person. Of late I feel as if my persona may eventually transcend male or female behaviour - a merging of sorts. So, what comes after self-acceptance? That’s where I want to direct my question.

To get to the point, society “accepts” gays and lesbians, but where do cross dressers fit in? Try to explain cross dressing to someone and I bet most people would assume that all cross dressers must be gay! Well, actually, No! If these postings are any guideline then we are a really diverse bunch. Jung said something about the desire to wear female clothes being an attempt to get in touch with your female side, but then suggested that on another level it’s really feminine traits people are reaching for. For me I don’t know - that outward manifestation of looking and feeling feminine is so many things; it is more than traits. Certainly it’s an expression of how I feel but at times it’s also sexual and a turn-on. Still, I could not contemplate letting friends or family know about Alex. She’ll have to stay in the closet for the time being. Would be nice though…

So, rambling aside, how might societal acceptance come about in a similar way to how gays and lesbians have achieved it? Took me a long time to get to my question! :hugs:

I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Alex

[Zelda Noe]

Hi Alex :wave2:

You hit a big one here...Societal acceptance.

Okay now for my little spiel...

Using my own crossdressing experience (as short as it is), I would say...try to be as natural looking of a cd as you can...

What do I mean?

Blend In...now here is the sensitive issue to some who are cd...without me meaning any offense to any particular look.

Since Society looks ("judges") with such black and white values and judgements (judgements of reason, not particulary condemnation)...I would try to have a "look" which would draw positive response rather then negative.

I am a 56 year old dresser...yet I have had compliment after compliment by GG's in how "nice I look" while madeover and wearing my femme clothes. I feel that this is more on the plus side of how Society views crossdressers. Yes, there would be some in the Society crowd who would judge me negatively and even with a finger point of condemnation, but by and large, I think Society is drawn to a more "natural" look by a CD.

So...my advise as an older cder is too not over do it with your makeup and wigs. Dress as nice and comfortable as you can without drawing undue attention to a particular look.

View GG's on the street...how do they dress? (not the over casual jeans look). When gg's dress nice...observe how they dress....do you find it attractive? Does it draw you to want to emulate that look? Or do you find it sloppy or underdressed? Or even ****ty or obscene?

When I see a beautifully dressed GG I admire her...I look at her clothes, her hair style, her makeup, her shoes, accessories, her eyes. I see the clothes, but much more at the same time.

So...if you see and admire a gg, ask yourself, "What is it that attracts me to this person?" Then emulate it or adopt part of that same look. Then I believe Society will be more accepting of your look...there will be more acceptance...more curiousity...even possibly more compliments.

Good luck in your cd image.

Warmly, Dandy :happy:

PS: Another Societal Accepting issue is...attitude...another whole post in itself.

[Byllie]

Being straight is easy to catagorize. Being gay or lesbian, also just as easy. CD? Not so easy. If you're gay you're genetically male and act male. Same idea holds for lesbians. For CD you are either genetically male or female, but wish to look and act like the other, due to a gender identity issue. And it's a bloody spectrum, so fitting us into neat pigeonholes doesn't work.

[Kate Simmons]

Don't know what you are looking for Hon. Some "normal" people are pariahs no matter what they do. I've learned that I have to accept myself before anything else. I don't "look" for acceptance from anyone. That's kind of like asking someone if you have the right to breathe. If they don't happen to like you or your looks,they'll say no. Does that mean I'm going to stop breathing? Hell no, and I'll blow on 'em in the process. It's their opinion against mine. Most people are unwilling to accept people as themselves as they are scared of change or anything different. The problem is, EVERYONE is different, it's just not apparent(i.e. don't ask, don't tell). As Alexa brought out , not everyone can be conveniently pigeon holed just to satisfy someone else. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that you have to live with yourself in this world, so just be yourself and enjoy it.We are more accepting of each other because of who we are, but from what I've seen on the forum, that's not too shabby. Remember we have each other to talk to even if everyone else is an "idiot". take care, Ericka

[Annabel]

From Dirk Bogarde in 'Victim' to civil partnerships - 43 years.

From Eddie Izzard to CDs regularly walking down the street in skirts - ?

Whatever, I'm in my 50s so it'll be too late for me.

But for the younger cds - who knows? They could make it.

To answer another thread - Sylvia Sims looked pretty good in aforesaid film.

[CaptLex]

For CD you are either genetically male or female, but wish to look and act like the other.
I see your point, Alexa, and I'm sure it's true most of the time, but actualy some CD's are gay or bi, so that doesn't always hold true.

[Leslie Aerin]

Mainstream society by its very nature imposes unspoken gender rules on us all; for most males, therefore, public displays of feminine behaviour are generally met with disapproval - or sometimes worse.

Growing up, when out with a group of male friends I’d always blend in but would at the same time push that feeling of being “different” deeper into the subconscious, where it sat for a very long time. Don’t think my friends would have understood what I was talking about! After all, as Jon Donne said “No man is an island”. Accepting that I want to dress in women’s clothes was a huge obstacle for me for a long time and I just those thoughts to go away. Only over the past 6 months has self-acceptance come (this forum has been a godsend as I never imagined there might be so many people with similar feelings!)

After getting over the denial I realised that this was no “passing phase“; after denial came gradual self-acceptance; and from self-acceptance, contentment. Through all of this emerged a happier, more relaxed person. Of late I feel as if my persona may eventually transcend male or female behaviour - a merging of sorts. So, what comes after self-acceptance? That’s where I want to direct my question.

To get to the point, society “accepts” gays and lesbians, but where do cross dressers fit in? Try to explain cross dressing to someone and I bet most people would assume that all cross dressers must be gay! Well, actually, No! If these postings are any guideline then we are a really diverse bunch. Jung said something about the desire to wear female clothes being an attempt to get in touch with your female side, but then suggested that on another level it’s really feminine traits people are reaching for. For me I don’t know - that outward manifestation of looking and feeling feminine is so many things; it is more than traits. Certainly it’s an expression of how I feel but at times it’s also sexual and a turn-on. Still, I could not contemplate letting friends or family know about Alex. She’ll have to stay in the closet for the time being. Would be nice though…

So, rambling aside, how might societal acceptance come about in a similar way to how gays and lesbians have achieved it? Took me a long time to get to my question! :hugs:

I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Alex
Dear Alex,
I think that self-acceptance is the most important aspect, of the whole "genre" of acceptance. I have often felt loathed by gays, for instance, when all I was trying to do was fit into a crowd where I thought I had a better chance of being accepted for me and my nature. We also seem to rely so much on the appearance of something or someone and not enough on the actual reality of the person and/or situation that we hasten to act on erroneous judgements ("contempt prior to investigation").
My hope is that others will see that their denial of self is due to their own thoughts and fears, passed down through the generations, no matter what category they fit or claim to fit.
I am a new member but I am having trouble with the intro page. I hope this reply is appropriate. I am working on the self-acceptance part and this forum is the first real step I've made, to contact others.
I thank you, for your input. It is very well written and insightful. One appropriate term that comes to mind is, "Bully!!"
Thank you very much.
Leslie Aerin

[Byllie]

Yes, just as some gay or bi are also Republicans. Being CD does not mean you are or are not gay or bi. Itr merely means you're CD.


I see your point, Alexa, and I'm sure it's true most of the time, but actualy some CD's are gay or bi, so that doesn't always hold true.

[btmgrl6]

Here we go with the society thing again,only this time it's mainstream society.
It's not society..... it's fear, fear of what people will think of us. fear that they may think that the cd'er is gay. fear that they think the cd'er is a pervert or a deviant. I am 24/7 working,playin, livin, emfemme ts. this so called mainstream society pays no more attention to me than they do the man in the moon.
If you took a poll I am sure that most of society would say... no, I don't like the idea.
Now as individuals (whom we are more likely to encounter) I think the opinion would be more a kin to .."whatever!" That has been my experience after years of being out and about. There are many cd's, gays, les, bi-sexuals, ts and tg who are out there living openly amongst society and .... and doing well.
AN EXAMPLE OF THIS FEAR.....SOCIETY THINKS THAT CROSSDRESSERS ARE GAY. Who cares? if theyy think that cd's are gay, and a bunch of us say that we think that gays are more acceptable to society.....where's the problem.
And if we are going to distance ourselves from others in the group because of our own prejudice, how do we expect others to accept the differences between them and us?
STEPH

[btmgrl6]

Who can tell if a cd,or ts, or tg is gay or otherwise? If they see two guys in a dress how do they distinguish which is a str8 cd, and which is a gay cd, or ts ?
The probable answer is that they think that they are both gay. If a gay guy guy and a straight guy stood side by side... who could tell which was which, by just looking at them?

I think that the fear that you might be labeled as gay is the real issue here.
otherwise, unless you hang a sign around you neck proclaiming your straightness
who the heck is going to know?
If we just leave our sexuality out of the equation, we might see that no matter what... we are all pretty much in the same situation.

Steph

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

To get to the point, society “accepts” gays and lesbians, but where do cross dressers fit in?

Gays and lesbians fought hard to gain acceptance. If we crossdressers want the same, we're going to have to earn it. And that means being both public activism and being active in "transgender" organizations.

Currently, transsexuals are the ones doing the work in these groups and no matter how well-intentioned people are, groups typically end up reflecting the agenda of those who put the most time in (whether it's transgender organizations, condo boards or the PTA). I'm not saying this to be divisive -- just that (as in all activism) we can't rely on others to represent our agenda.

That said, there are real hurdles to getting involved. It's obviously harder to be publicly active if you're concerned about keeping your identity closet. And there are even just simple logistical difficulties, such as the time needed to get dressed en femme makes it hard to attend a week-night meeting. Nor have transgender organizations always made it easy -- I know someone who would've participated in one group, but their offices didn't have any place she could change (nor did they seem to get why this might be an issue). But these are things that can be worked out, even if I don't have any good solutions offhand.

[Joy Carter]

I wonder what the kids in school at this time feel about CD are they more likely to be accepting. I read a story in the paper several years ago about an early teen boy who was accepted in school being a CD, With his parents blessing he wore slacks, blouses, shoes, hair and makeup presenting himself as female. If anyone knows of this CD tell us what you know. I'd be curious if the school agers are now ready to accept a m/f or f/m CD.

[Xandra]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Not sure of any answers at the moment but the subject certainly raises some interesting questions!

Alex

[Melanie R]

Yes, most in society are ignorent about crossdressers and ignorence breds fear, misunderstandings and myths. Most in society think we are gay. My wife and I last week completed filming on a one hour documentary on crossdressers and wives for Women's Entertainment (WE) to air in September and a one hour documentary on Transgendered Persons which included 30 minutes of two transsexuals and 30 minutes of Peggy (my wife) and Melanie explaining crossdressing on Houston public television. Most of the production staff of the network and local public television station thought crossdressers were gay. We did a presentation to a group of university students studying to be therapists which was filmed for national television. Most of the students also thought crossdressers were gay. You see how far we have to go in educating the public. We hope that risking everything to go on national television to dispels the myths about crossdressing will educate the public.
BTW both of these documentaries will be available on DVD. Contact me by private email.

Hugs,

Melanie