Crossdressers, how many are TG

[janedoe311]

Crossdressers, how many are TG and how many are Crossdressers. Of course we have to define both. TG is someone that is changing gender ie hormones, surgery, living as the opposite gender etc. A crossdresser is a man that dressed up once in a while, no major body changes. I do not believe a crossdresser would have major body changes, like breasts or face surgery. Removing hair OK and like in my case a nose job to fix a broken nose. This would not be feminization as I see it.

Since this is a crossdressers site there seems to be a majority that are TG there are TG sites.

[Marla S]

What about a poll ?

BTW: CD not emulating woman (nobody would believe me if I'd try:D )

[Katrina]

I guess my viewpoint is somewhat different:

CD = someone who only dresses as the opposite sex
TS = someone who takes hormones and/or undergoes FFS/SRS/etc
TG = catch-all term which includes both CD and TS

[MarinaTwelve200]

However All of the above often dress as the opposite sex---CD is an ACTION not what someone is----People CD for various underlying reasons.

[janedoe311]

However All of the above often dress as the opposite sex---CD is an ACTION not what someone is----People CD for various underlying reasons.

Good way to say it. Are you and English Major?

CD is an action and TG is what a person is.

In that way a TG is not crossdressing but just being what you are.

As for TG vs TS. TS is being replaced by TG since TG is more politically correct.

It is not sex it is gender! Sex is an action and gender it what you are!

[MarinaTwelve200]

Good way to say it. Are you and English Major?

CD is an action and TG is what a person is.

In that way a TG is not crossdressing but just being what you are.

As for TG vs TS. TS is being replaced by TG since TG is more politically correct.

It is not sex it is gender! Sex is an action and gender it what you are!

You cant really say that ALL people who CD are TG--some of us do it to ESCAPE from who we really are---others do it for "Thrill seeking" and then there are the fetishists and rhe "humiliation" S&Ms. Nothing TG in these cases they only share a penchant for wearing the clothing of the opposite sex.----Thats why I say CD is something people do for a variety of reasons ranging from gender confusion to a simple thrill.

Its also a big reason there is so mich confusion with CD as many might be looking up the wrong tree for answers.

No I am not an English major, but a Scientist ;)

[Teresa Amina]

As for TG vs TS. TS is being replaced by TG since TG is more politically correct.

Which is unfortunate. While some of us are something more than just CD we are all the same not quite TS. The distinction between TG and TS is useful even if not "correct".

[Annesah]

Marina is a scientist. Her analysis is empirical. Good going girl!

[Katiegirl]

While some of us are something more than just CD we are all the same not quite TS. The distinction between TG and TS is useful even if not "correct".

I agree with Teresa's statement that is how I would describe myself

:)

[Eugenie]

However All of the above often dress as the opposite sex---CD is an ACTION not what someone is----People CD for various underlying reasons.

That seems to be the most logical understanding. TV, TG and TS all may X-dress.

A transvestite person may X-dress just for sexual fantazy or the pleasure of wearing soft material.

A Transgender person may x-dress to feel like a woman, start living as a woman without going through an SRS operation

A transsexual person may x-dress to live as the woman she now is after having had an SRS operation. However, as such a transsexual may not need to x-dress and just wear pants just like GGs do. She doesn't need to x-dress to feel her feminity.

And of course there is a continuum in between those categories.

I think the I am in between a transvestite and a transgender. I like to dress like a woman and live like a woman for as long as my current family situation enables me to. I have managed to build breasts but without hormones. I'm not motivated to go further on in my feminisation. However I would love to be in a position to live full time as a woman.

So I'm a near TG who likes to x-dress

[JoannaDees]

A crossdresser is a man that dressed up once in a while, no major body changes. I do not believe a crossdresser would have major body changes, like breasts or face surgery. Removing hair OK and like in my case a nose job to fix a broken nose. This would not be feminization as I see it..

But you have three boobs! That's kinda major mod there baby! Triple femme. Tri-tittie. A Triumvirat of squeezie goodness.

[kathy gg]

Katrina, um your 'viewpoint" is more fact than just opinion. :D

transgendered covers all those different terms{as you said}....tv/cd/or ts , I think some people shy away from considering themselves tg, because they are terms which confuses wives and people not in the know.

I think if any on here would have seen Larry Kings interview with people who are post and pre-op ts....well you would have been laughing. he could not seem to figure out the meanings. I think most people who dont' spend the time getting the basics down, even with in our own community often use the words in the wrong way to describe the different meanings and what they indicate.

Even on the womens list I moderate I find women often get freaked out when the hear the term "transgendered" thinking their hubbys are about to undergo srs. And even after they are given the definitions they still seem bothered.

And now with the new term "transgenderists" it even broadens the scope of definition.

I am no expert, but your explanation covers it very easily.





I guess my viewpoint is somewhat different:

CD = someone who only dresses as the opposite sex
TS = someone who takes hormones and/or undergoes FFS/SRS/etc
TG = catch-all term which includes both CD and TS

[Kate Simmons]

I guess by definition, I would be considered TG. The only problem is I don't define myself under any "blanket". I just consider myself Ericka, plain and simple. EKR

[DonnaT]

See what the media does!

TG- transgender(ed) was initially coined to cover the whole spectrum of gender varient presentations or gender varient behavoirs.

Many who are, e.g., CD/TV, do not consider themselves to be TG, because they consider it a hobby, a sexual kink, etc.

I am a CD who considers himself to be TG, because I have a scientifically unexplainable urge to cross dress that I cannot purge myself of. I have no gender dysphoria with my male self. One does not need to have gender dysphoria to be TG.

Note also the Transsexuals do not necessarily use hormones or have surgical alterations of their body. If someone self identifies as TS, then they are TS. Their reasons are their own.

The definitions should not include a description of medical relief. One can identify as TS long before seeking any medical relief.

[Rikkicn]

I was a CD then realized that I was TG, as described by some, and now I'm a non TS. Maybe I was TS all along and didn't know it.
Labels create such seperation

Rikki

[KatieZ]

Since this is a crossdressers site there seems to be a majority that are TG there are TG sites.


Not sure I understand that statement. Are you saying that TG's should not be here at a crossdresser site? :confused:

A large number of us here have contemplated going full time. Or at least considered it in trying to put our lives in perspective. Just as the wonderful GG's here help us with understanding ourselves and supporting us, the girls that are in transition are also a great part of this site.



Hugs

[ashlee chiffon]

Kathy and Katrina get the bonus points for clarifying all this terminology confusion....I know many gals that have transitioned or are in transition and many years ago all of them called themselves transsexuals or TS's when talking about themselves. Those were the more "rugged" gals. THe more refined gals i know go for transgender...
... I know Many cd's and tv's that Just dress and and then i'll bet there are many who usually never admit they would like to go further*lots of transgenders spent most of their lives...Just...Dressing ...before doing hormones or going further way later in years*....and many transition with just hormones and develop breasts...the ones i would term as transgender. To actually be a transsexual is the ultimate move *or snip/snip , as it were*...the total committment to become the opposite sex!
the fact that labeling us is confusing is compounded by the fact that most of us are confused about ourselves...thats why this chat is so popular with us, we are finding out more and more everyday, as are our GG's!
Its good to know some of us have things figured out! just makes ashleygurl realize there IS hope for me to understand myself!!!
Just WHAT THE HECK..Do i call myself???

[CaptLex]

Which is unfortunate. While some of us are something more than just CD we are all the same not quite TS. The distinction between TG and TS is useful even if not "correct".
Thank you, Teresa (and also Donna T, Katrina and Kathy GG). Please let's not follow the popular trend of using TG and TS interchangeably. It's NOT the same thing and further use in this manner will create more confusion and misinformation.

[Tamara Croft]

Since this is a crossdressers site there seems to be a majority that are TG there are TG sites.This forum is open to all, not just crossdressers.... I guess the GG's shouldn't be here either then?? :rolleyes:

[Kieron Andrew]

Just a food for thought from a UK boy.........TG to me means short for Transgendered so that means the whole Spectrum, which includes TS/TV/CD

CD is just a part of that bigger spectrum

Therefore this forum caters for the whole Transgendered community no matter where we fit in to it

[Laurie Ann]

I'm a Virgo if that means anything.

[Kieron Andrew]

I'm a Virgo if that means anything.
your also a TG wow go figure that!!

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Unfortunately there is a bit of "terminology shift" going with "transgender" starting to be equated with "transsexual."


transgender - Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth. If their preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly.

There appear to be a variety of causes. First off the AP Stylebook, which is the style guide used by many organizations adopted a explanation for "transgender" that while not technically inaccurate, is incomplete, and can easily give the impression that TSs are the only transgender people out there. (For one thing, it replaces an entry for "sex change.")

Unfortunately, the AP -- although they consulted the National Center for Transgender Equality -- chose not to use a definition that had been developed (for a supplemental styleguide) by the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association that was much more explicitly inclusive: (http://www.nlgja.org/pubs/style.html)


transgender (adj): An umbrella term that refers to people whose biological and gender identity or expression may not be the same. This can include preoperative, postoperative or nonoperative transsexuals, female and male cross-dressers, drag queens or kings, female or male impersonators, and intersex individuals. If an individual prefers to be called transsexual, drag queen or king, intersex, etc., use that term. When writing about a transgender person, use the name and personal pronouns that are consistent with the way the individual lives publicly.

and had additional entries for "transsexual" and "cross-dresser."

I've been meaning to write NCTE (which gave its blessing to the new AP entry) to find out what the story is behind their endorsement since while it is better for transsexuals, but problematic for the rest of us. That said, it may be just one of those endorsements one has to give -- for political purposes -- even though the action is short of what you really wanted.

Also, at least some transsexuals seem to be calling themselves TG instead -- apparently because they don't like the "sex" in "transsexual." While I support the right to self-identify how one choses, it is annoying that none seem to bother (in articles and TV interviews I've seen) to mention that TG can also refer to other folks as well.

Finally, there's the issue of "frame drag" which occurs in any volunteer organization, including those serving the TG communities. Frame drag refers to the fact that communities often get dominated by those who have the most time, energy and interest. These people's perspectives and priorities may be different from those of the group at large, but rather than see their leadership roles as representing the diversity of the group they often focus it on their own agendas. So the "frame of references" gets dragged in that direction. For example, a friend's wife, who's a working mom, has found that in a neighborhood' mom's group that her interests and concerns taking a back seat to the stay-at-home moms who now dominate the group because they can put more time into it.

For the most part, it's TSs who are the most active in groups like TGSF or NCTE so "transgender" ends up reflecting the things they feel are most important. There's nothing sinister about it, it's just a fact of organlzational dynamics and unless CDs and other non-transition track folks get involved, we're relying on the goodwill of us to carry our concerns. The other factor is that TSs are usually the most visible members of this group, so if they're who the general public sees, then that's who they assume "transgenders" are.

Bottom-line, if non-transition track folks on the TG spectrum want the general public to know we exist, we're going to have to get out their and show them we're here.

[michelle19845]

i tend to feel more than just a cder.but i wonder to what degree i am.i wouldn't mind the surgery snip snip,i'm trying black cohosh to see if there are any benfits mentally,emotionally,or whatever? i pass when i go out and i have 36b natural breasts.i'm not for sure where i am right now.

michelle19845

[michelleliz]

iI am tg. I am more at home as Michelle then I am as myself. If I could I would just be Michelle all of the time.

Michelleliz

[bebe nylons]

Joanna. Your reply had me on the Floor lol. Cool reply. Hugs. bebe

[Deborah]

Oh gawd....give me a break. :rolleyes:

Hey JaneDoe i consider myself TS....want to ban me? :tongueout

[Crisack]

What's the big deal with labels? I could tell you I have a hollow cylindar with one end closed
that's 6" in height with a circumference of 3" that contains a fluid made up of a molecule
containing 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen with some added minerals.

Or I could tell you I have a cup of water.

Point being that labels help communication. Just look at the name of the site. I don't see to
many Elvis impersonators with rubber chickens posting here about the torque
convertor of a 1978 Pinto. I bet it has alot to do with the label of the site. If we, as a community, can't
decide on what we're going to call ourselves, how's the rest of the world going to understand
enough to accept?

For myself, I understand that general labels don't really define people I encounter.
It does give me a good place to start to try and understand who they are, though. That being said,
I did a search on the web for some of the sites that are easily found by the general public for
for the definition of transgender.


Miriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/transgender)
: exhibiting the appearance and behavioral characteristics of the opposite sex

.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)
The precise definition for transgender remains in flux, but the most accepted one currently is:

"People who were assigned a gender, usually at birth and based on their genitals, but
who feel that this is a false or incomplete description of themselves."

Transgender has a number of sub-categories. These include the following: transsexual;
cross-dressing; transvestite; consciously androgynous people; people who are genderqueer;
people who live cross-gender; drag kings; and drag queens. Usually not included, because
in most cases it is not a gender issue, are transvestic fetishists.

Now these are not say-all be-all sites by any means but they are popular enough to be easily
found by people who are trying to educate themselves. The funny thing is that some of the
other popular sites did not have a definition for transgender or crossdresser but did have one
for transvestite and transexual. Glad we're working on getting this sorted out, lol.

[Scotty]

Not all TG's are CD's and not all CD's are TG's and not all of the above are MIA's working for the CIA, FBI, NIS, or NSA, hoping not to be KIA, but if they do then they'll be RIP....


I hate labels and acronyms.

I have small breasts, round hips, a feminine life style when I'm in private and nobody knows otherwise except my G/F. I wear short shorts at home in my back yard with a girls tank top and I do what I do......
I hang with the guys when I want to, and with the ladies when I want to - although I prefer female company over male company any day of the week...

I dont want SRS so I'm not TG but I do CD from time to time in private.

confused yet? Labels are for psychologists to identify people's traits and like anything else pyschology related it's all theory in my opinion unless you are clearly living 100% as a woman with intent of SRS etc.....Then I see a TG as it is an action not a person.

As for CD'ing - there's no steadfast law that says if a guy tries on a dress out of curiosity he's a CD- except if it becomes public and people label him as such.......

If nobody knew I was in a girls tank top and short shorts in my back yard - would I be a CD unless I told someone?

just labels - we are all what we are......whatever that is! :)

[Alison Michelle]

I looked up transvestite recently, it was defined as someone(male) who wears women's clothes.

So what am I? I cross-dress some but feel more female than male(TG) regardless of my attire. Living full-time as a woman is something I would like to achieve. Hormones and SRS(supplemental restraint system?) may be in my future. So I'm a CD, TG, leaning on TS.

Phew, I'm dizzy, I think it's nap time. Goodnight all, catch you tomorrow.

[Khriss]

.. the demands of Psychology (or people in general) to catagorize or identify types of behavior (to their own ends or degrees of satisfaction) never ceases to amaze me...
ie: fetishistic responces,in latent homosexual terms.... = ?
..why try to understand a behavior in its real terms, when pidgeon holeing it makes it so much eazier to condemn? I hate "lables"..I prefer "clothing" that fits me , while my fashion sense is ever evolving too...
alone again...perhaps ?

[Sandra]

Just a food for thought from a UK boy.........TG to me means short for Transgendered so that means the whole Spectrum, which includes TS/TV/CD

CD is just a part of that bigger spectrum

Therefore this forum caters for the whole Transgendered community no matter where we fit in to it


This is just what I thought, TG covers all TS,TV,CD, but then again we are labeling...

[MissAnnie]

For my part, I don't like this labeling - and I think it is hard to define the border between a crossdresser, a transvestite, a TG and so on.
First of all I think of myself as Annie, and for me Annie is a man, that sometimes dress as a woman, because she enjoy to feel feninime.
How about the label t-girl for all of us? Does it cover all of us?
Well, in my language we have no word for a crossdresser or a t-girl, so in my language I am a transvestite

[Casey Morgan]

There are way too many ideas trying to be covered by way too few words. This in my opinion is where all the confusion and cross-talking is coming in.

I can't answer janedoe's question as originally asked. But let me try to break myself down into a number of smaller ideas.

Crossdresser: yes, in that I to some degree of "completeness" and some degree of duration dress in clothing that my society designates as belonging to members of the opposite sex. There's another problem right there: does sex refer to sexual intercourse or one's physical reproductive role? And even stated that way there's problems.

Now the rest I need to define first and then answer. Here I'll use "sex" in its definition as male or female physical being. (That's where the problem is. It is possible to be intersexed, so that whole area needs to be redefined.)

Do I to some degree of "completeness" and to some degree of duration act or feel compelled to act in ways normally associated with the opposite sex? Yes.

Do I to some degree of "completeness" and to some degree of duration have thoughts and feelings normally associated with the opposite sex? Yes.

Assuming that the last two questions can be largely used to define gender, do I feel that my gender most closely matches my physical sex? No.

Do I feel that my gender most closely matches the opposite physical sex? No.

Assuming that gender is unchangeable and my physical sex is changeable and further assuming that changing my physical sex is not limited to nor even needs to include changing my genitalia, do I wish to alter my physical sex to some degree to match my gender? I have previously and am currently considering doing so, but with the ultimate result of making my body less male.

And there are probably more things wrapped up in this whole discussion than I've mentioned here. But this is why I identify as a crossdresser and a transgendered person but not a transsexual.

[HaleyPink2000]

I feel I'm a female in my brain.:D I am very femme most of the time. So I dress to make the outside match the inside. I'm Hetro and love my Wife of 25 years, very in love. But I'm a Cross Dresser. I'd not care to SRS.

I feel that TG is the grouping I'm in, even as a CD. 0.02

[MsJanessa]

I guess my viewpoint is somewhat different:

CD = someone who only dresses as the opposite sex
TS = someone who takes hormones and/or undergoes FFS/SRS/etc
TG = catch-all term which includes both CD and TS
That's also the way I understand it---we are all TG, some are TS, either preop, post op or nonop, and others are TV or CD

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I can't answer janedoe's question as originally asked. But let me try to break myself down into a number of smaller ideas.

For what it's worth, I've found it helpful to break things down into (at least) three dimensions:

- sex identity -- Do you feel your body and what's between your legs is "right" (BTW this isn't an either/or answer, since there are MTFs would be like a more feminized body, potentially including breasts, but who don't feel the need for GRS).

- gender self-identity -- Do you see your personality as "masculine" or "feminine," or somewhere in between, or beyond. (Felling a need to express a "feminine" side to yourself is along those lines.)

- gender social identity - What social roles, privileges and responsibilities are you interested in taking part in. (For example the "privilege" of looking pretty, playing with ornamentation, etc.)

From what I've seen, most people who self-identity as TS or as TGs who want to "socially transition" tend to feel pretty strongly about at least two or these three dimensions. In contrast, those on the CD end of things tend to feel less stronger and about fewer dimensions.

The degree of any of these can vary and there are all sorts of permutations among them -- and not just the "expected" ones. For example, I know a post-op TS who said having a female body was what important to her -- if she was forced to live as a man outside the house that she could live with that (even if that wouldn't be her first choice).

[Tiffy]

I believe we are all TG. Kinda classes us all and then split in to different groups like transexual or crossdresser. I am a transgendered crossdresser. And the reason I do not just say crossdresser. Is because I have a 50/50 meantal split. Therefore I have two genders in me.

April Marie

[DonnaT]

Note that the following from Marlena's post is not defining transgender:

Originally Posted by AP Stylebook
transgender - Use the pronoun preferred by the individuals who have acquired the physical characteristics of the opposite sex or present themselves in a way that does not correspond with their sex at birth. If their preference is not expressed, use the pronoun consistent with the way the individuals live publicly.

It is defining when the AP should use the pronoun --she-- or --he-- when writing/reporting a story.

[Deborah]

You'll notice the original author of this thread hasn't came back to continue the conversation. Hmmm? ;)

[CaptLex]

You'll notice the original author of this thread hasn't came back to continue the conversation. Hmmm? ;)
I was just thinking the same thing. Opened up a can of worms, I'd say. :eek:

[janedoe311]

This forum is open to all, not just crossdressers.... I guess the GG's shouldn't be here either then?? :rolleyes:


Any comments are welcome. I am learning!

[janedoe311]

Oh gawd....give me a break. :rolleyes:

Hey JaneDoe i consider myself TS....want to ban me? :tongueout

I never said anyone was banned. Just wanted to know who is really a crossdresser and TG or TS. After all it is called crossdressers.com.

But I never liked labels anyway. This world needs labels on people so it is hard to avoid.

[myMichelle]

This forum is open to all, not just crossdressers.... I guess the GG's shouldn't be here either then?? :rolleyes:

I love the GG's...or is that the Bee Gee's, I'm always getting confused:)

[Wendy me]

labels, labels, labels,...see what happens when we try to put ourselves or others in a label ?? let those who feel a need to come up with them labels... do so far better off when asked what label do you put on yourself just smile and say happy...

we as a group in what ever stage or for what ever reason we do or support those that dress in what ever form ... need not put labels on each other
the "NORMAL PEOPLE" out there are way too busy doing that .....

and i have seen them "NORMAL PEOPLE" and want nothing to do with them.......

[Eugenie]

I'm not sure that I understand your comment. For a post-op transsexual woman, crossdressing would be dressing in male drag.

Indeed from the point of view of a post-op transsexual X-dressing would imply being in DRAB. Probably an unlikely situation, but who knows...

But from the point of view of the genetic caracteristics (X Y chromosomes), wearing women clothes could still be considered x-dressing.. For the uninformed public too, but that's something we have to fight.

So, you are right when you say:


Some trans women do go through phases where they crossdress before they figure out their true internal gender. But once they fully identify as transsexual women and start the transition process, most pre-op trans women do not view dressing as a woman as crossdressing either - especially once they go full time. If you identify internally as a woman, and you are living full time as a woman, then dressing as a woman isn't really "cross" dressing.

My apologies for the confusion in my previous post.

:o

Eugenie

[Caitlintgsd]

Personally I distain from having the term "tg" as a big umbrella to cover, or a bucket to dump, everybody who puts on clothing opposite of their genetic gender.
I think that it more likely should be used to catalogize (if one needs to) a person whom might not be a ts but not a CD either. Somewhere in the middle between the other "labels". Just my 0.02

[Kimberley]

I was a CD then realized that I was TG, as described by some, and now I'm a non TS. Maybe I was TS all along and didn't know it.
Labels create such seperation

Rikki
***********
You said it perfectly Rikki. Labels try to put things in neat little boxes, something none of us fit into. (Bad enough trying to fit into a dress....) Many if not most of us carry traits of each "label" to greater or lesser degrees.

That said I have to wonder if we dont set up our own little system of discrimination? This of course could lead to thoughts of "I'm not a TS so I have to find somewhere that supports those thoughts of supposed inadequacy. I guess it could be a form of mass hysteria. It is a dangerous path to follow for many reasons.

I think this is why some of us are so adamant that everyone examine themselves carefully and really get to understand our own personalities. Someone once asked me what it was like to be a female in a male body. I looked her straight in the eye and asked her to tell me what it felt like to be female. (SHE was a pdoc. Not the one I am now seeing.) Of course she could no more describe that than I could what if feels like to be male. We are who we are and learning to accept our CDing whether it is gender based or not is so important. Some call it self acceptance, I prefer to think of it as knowing your own needs as a minimum, not your desires, but your needs.

Now to the original question.
Medical Diagnosis: TS.
Chosen Path: TG (Non op TS)
Presentation: Whatever I feel like at the time.

So that makes me fit into every single category does it not? No neat little boxes hmm?

Just some thoughts from a previously tormented mind

Kimberley

[janedoe311]

:love:
What is boils down to is that everyone has their own idea what CD,TS, TG and all others are.

Even the experts do not agree.

Gender ID the gender you identify with, could be you have your girl times and your boy times, that is where making a gender ID breaks down. But again the society needs people to be labeled one thing or the other.

Sexual preference: homosexual or bisexual. Again would like to drop the sex from homosexual or bisexual, but for now they have to work. Would homogendered and bigendered work?

Gender dysphoria and Gender Confusion, same thing?. Dysphoria is the opposite of euphoria. It is generally characterized as a feeling of emotional and/or mental discomfort, restlessness, malaise, and depression, (from an on line dictionary). Confusion: is the inability to think with your usual speed or clarity. When confused, you have difficulty focusing your attention and may feel disoriented. Confusion interferes with your ability to make decisions.

Not very flattering definitions are they?

They are labels the medical industry made up. One could argue that we are not confused or have dysphoria, but according to the society we need labels. I do not feel either confusion or dysphoria is correct.

Cross Dressers, someone that puts on the clothes of the opposite gender. One can be a CD for many reasons, for the shock value (saw a couple of guys with beards in dresses in the worlds fare in Spokane Washington the 70’s, it was a shock), a job (drag queen) or to release stress etc.

Transvestite and CD were the same a few decades ago, but transvestite is splitting off. Transvestite is beginning to be seen as a CD that wears woman’s clothes for a sexual turn on, not because they have a gender ID problem. Again there will be overlap with some people.

Transsexual: is being replaced by transgender to get rid of the sex, “so to speak”.
Transgender: A person that ID’s either part or all the time as the opposite gender, whether they CD or do anything about it.
Homosexual, gay or lesbian or bisexual: no need to define.

I’ll stick with TG replacing TS for the same reason that gender is replacing sex in government forms etc, at least in the US, TG is politically correct. Sex is an action and gender is your …. well ….gender, male, female, androgynous or hermaphrodite or intersexed, (the sex word again should be intergendered).

Are there many overlaps? Of course? Few would fit in one label all the time, and who cares it is just a label.

So are any definitions going to stay and will everyone agree? Not likely but from looking on the web they seem to make as much sense as anything.

Do not take these definitions personally. They are just a label we do not need them. You are what you are and the heck with society making labels.

Labels the society needs them some examples.
In the US if you did not want to register to vote in one of the many parties they called it Undecided, it is now non partisan. See they need to have a label. If you do not believe in god, at least as the religions in the world preach it, you are an atheists or agnostic. Again labels. I like to say I have no religious beliefs, but I have had people say that I have to believe in something, so I say I believe in science, common sense and free thinking. So they call me an atheist, again labels. I digress these are just examples.

So lets us drop labels even if society cannot live without them!

Did I get people thinking a little differently? That was my purpose.

PS I do not have three breasts, I wish.

[Marla S]

Did I get people thinking a little differently? That was my purpose.

Me not.

Though labels are probelmatic, there is no communication without them, but just cants or long explanations.


You are what you are and the heck with society making labels.
That's without any doubt absolutely true, but who are you ???



So lets us drop labels even if society cannot live without them!

If there are doubts, you just have to define the lables or make clear that everybody has kind of the same understanding. This way you can make sure your statements are understood in the right way.

[HaleyPink2000]

:D Amazing the diffrent ideas and comments, that come out of a simple question! Hmmmm?0.02

[janedoe311]

Me not.

Though labels are probelmatic, there is no communication without them, but just cants or long explanations.

That's without any doubt absolutely true, but who are you ???
I assume this is a rhetorical question.

If there are doubts, you just have to define the lables or make clear that everybody has kind of the same understanding. This way you can make sure your statements are understood in the right way.
Did not mean to say we could get rid of labels just would like to tone them down.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Lables are only problematic if they are INNACURATE or MIS-Labels---We cant think about concepts or make any intellegent conclusions without using lables of some sort.

Because some people are MIS LABLED does not mean that we have to throw away ALL lables---but conversely, make NEW, more accurate ones.

Try thinking about something that does not have a name--Its IMPOSSIBLE. Lables unify CONCEPTS so the brain can handle complex information. A concept not tied together with a unifying word "spills" out in all directions and we cant get a handle on it--just like a package that has no string to hold it together.

Unfortunately there is NO agrement in this feild (CD/TG) as to the lable definitions on either side of the Atlantic or even between different "schools" or individuals---So THATS why it is very important to always DEFINE the terms you use in all communications.---I see a good start has been made in this thread.

[Dee 1062]

I am Me....and that is who I am.....IAMME...........now I may Crossdress, I may take something to get bigger tits and I may wear makeup....But here is what I am... lable me. IAMME.

[Marla S]

I assume this is a rhetorical question.
As rethorical as the statement "You are what you are" or "I am me"
It contains no information, but that's what's needed to talk - exchange of information.
(Which color is Red ? Red ! So what !)


Did not mean to say we could get rid of labels just would like to tone them down.
Well my impression is that they don't need to be toned down, as wall as we don't need 1001 sublables. Sometimes redefinitions are required, but everything else leads to confusion.

Marina said the rest.

[CharlaineCadence]

I dont know I have come to terms with being under the transsexual name because I am on hormones and I am living as a woman and I plan on surgery. But through all the names and other lables all I know is one thing. I am me. Charlaine Cadence Nordin. Woman and happy. what my body shows is no matter seeing as it is something that can and will be fixed in time.

[Tamara Croft]

I happen to like labels, I mean can you imagine walking into the superstore and finding all the labels on the tins/cans gone :eek: then what?? close your eyes and pray you're getting salmon and not baked beans :p silly girls....

[joanlynn28]

I started out as CD but now know for sure that I am TG. My goal is to be TS in the end. I am more comfortable about myself as her, want to be my female self 24/7. Just have to take it slow and put all of the pieces into the proper place first.

[Eugenie]

While doing a research on "Gender Identity" on Google, I've found an interesting glossary:
"Sexual Identity and Gender Identity Glossary"
http://feminism.eserver.org/sexual-gender-identity.txt

I extracted the terms that have been discussed so far in this thread:

Cross Dresser (CD) One (regardless of the motivation) who wears clothes, makeup, etc. which are considered (by the culture) appropriate for the other sex but not one's own.

Fetishistic Transvestite A Transvestite who consistently eroticizes Cross Dressing. May also eroticize fantasies of gender/sex change.

Pre-operative transsexual (Pre-op TS) One who is actively planning to switch physical sexes, mostly to relieve gender dysphoria. Probably, but not necessarily, cross dresses, takes hormone therapy, and gets electrolysis. (See transsexual.)

Transgendered (TG) One who switches gender roles, whether just once, or many times at will. Inclusive term for transsexuals and transvestites.

Transsexual (TS) One who switches physical sexes (usually just once, but there are exceptions.) Primary sex change is accomplished by surgery. (See SRS.) Hormone therapy, electrolysis, additional surgery, and other treatments can change secondary sex characteristics. (See Pre-op TS.)

Transvestite (TV) One who mainly cross dresses for pleasure in the appearance and sensation. The pleasure may not be directly erotic. It may be empowering, rebellious, or something else. May feel comfortable in a focused transgender role while cross dressed. May occasionally experience gender dysphoria.

This is not meant to be an absolute set of definitions, there is no such a thing in human matters...

:love:

Eugenie

[Sarah Rabbit]

I guess my viewpoint is somewhat different:

CD = someone who only dresses as the opposite sex
TS = someone who takes hormones and/or undergoes FFS/SRS/etc
TG = catch-all term which includes both CD and TS

:iagree: Like the Girl Says

Sarah R. :bunny:

[Siobhan Marie]

I guess my viewpoint is somewhat different:

CD = someone who only dresses as the opposite sex
TS = someone who takes hormones and/or undergoes FFS/SRS/etc
TG = catch-all term which includes both CD and TS

:iagree: with Katrina on this, I consider myself transgendered but have no plans to transition or have gender reassignment surgery.

:hugs: Anna x

[Khriss]

I happen to like labels, I mean can you imagine walking into the superstore and finding all the labels on the tins/cans gone :eek: then what?? close your eyes and pray you're getting salmon and not baked beans :p silly girls....
sure ... then, beans or pickles in glass jars are available too..though without lables the "flavor" could be mistaken ! but does a "shopping" analogy realy apply to this topic? ...seems that getting ( or most likely ,not, getting !)- those things You'd expect, to fit Your wishes..( or preconceptions ?) could be the problem, in the first place ? "K"

[Kim E]

Some trans women do go through phases where they crossdress before they figure out their true internal gender. But once they fully identify as transsexual women and start the transition process, most pre-op trans women do not view dressing as a woman as crossdressing either - especially once they go full time. If you identify internally as a woman, and you are living full time as a woman, then dressing as a woman isn't really "cross" dressing.

I agree with what Kehleyr has stated here. I don't give any thought to dressing in women's clothing. It seems like such a normal and routine thing to do. If I were to need a label then it would be TS. Living full time, I don't consider myself a crossdresser and don't give 'dressing' much thought at all.

Kim