Two personalities? Guy/girl?...

[Lily_gg]

Hi all.

I have a question that I've been pondering over the last few days, which I'm sure a lot of other SOs have difficulties with too, so I thought I'd pose it here:

Basically, a lot of you seem to refer to yourselves as two different people - a guy and a girl - living in the same body. I was wondering why it is you feel this way, rather than feeling like they're just aspects of one whole person?

For example, I can be happy, I can be sad. I can be quiet, I can be irritatingly noisy. That doesn't mean that I see myself as four different people; happy, sad, quiet and noisy; living in one body - they're just different bits of me. Equally, I can think in a very male way sometimes (the whole maths, computers, logic bit), this doesn't mean that I see myself as one logical male person, and one emotional, irrational female person. :p

I'm kind of struggling with the idea that my boyfriend might contain a whole new person that I'm going to have to get to know, and hopefully like, for us to maintain a happy relationship - if it turns out that he's just the same person as he always was (albeit a bit more open, loving and intimate, rather than closed off), who just happens to wear girlie clothes and/or look like a full on girl sometimes, I think I can cope with that ok. If he is actually two different people, I may well end up feeling threatened by 'her', and this wouldn't be ok...

Views/thoughts etc?...........

[Wendy me]

i definaly am two diffrent people. who kinda clash how can wendy be happy in" his" boady???? this has caused some real conflits........power struggles if you want to think of it like that now going to thearapy trying (and its hard) to come to terms with "us" as julie m. said "the gray area" haveing strrted to get it that we are in this together helps(you can't klick you heels 3 times to make "him" go away) i love wendy she is me but she kinda liveing with this guy .......and he wont leave..........
that helpe????????i might be a nut job....a little crazy..........alittle out their.......
but one step at a time we will get their

[Fiona K]

Hi Lily,
I can understand your confusion/ concern and can only speak for myself. I tend to refer to Fiona here almost as a seperate person to my male self as it often seems easier but the reality is not that clear cut- for me.

The feminine thoughts, feelings don't disappear when my "other" clothes go back into the attic, niether- if I'm truly honest- do some of the masculine traits when I'm in Femme (see previous angry political posts!).
Maybe that's the Androgyne verdict coming through?

I treasure my time en femme, it is a special time but as you know my coming out as TG has caused pain to my wife and I have been questioning myself along the lines of this thread for a few days.

There is a balance between the two versions of me, a spectrum if you like. The girls here may be on different points of the spectum between masculine and feminine but in my case I'm still one person, if my wife and I ever reach the place you and your "other half" have I'd be extatic! This will take time, if ever.

I honestly think it is just easier to talk about here if we "seperate" femme and drab. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's my tuppence-worth.
Love
Fiona
xxx

[Stephanie Brooks]

Hi Lily!

Here's my view.

When I can be myself, when Stephanie isn't repressed, there's no difference between male and female side. The personality doesn't change, the person doesn't change. The values remain the same. The two names are in part a matter of convenience to differentiate genders, though I'd rather have been born female.

When Stephanie is repressed, the remaining "male" side is ugly, damaged. The creativity is reduced, there is no affection. Life is survival, sometimes minute by minute. It is empty and without vitality.

When Stephanie is free, I'm creative, affectionate, alive, whether en homme or en femme. I'm whole. There's no difference between the man and the woman.

[Georgette]

Modern medicine has a name for us some may call us Bi-polar which I believe that we may be I know when my Georgette side is dominant I am a much softer and caring person than what the macho male side I cuss out drivers that irritate me and do things I wouldn't do en femme. This is just my opinion. HUGS

[Wendy me]

i think that gray area is right (explanes a lot) still looking ,still working on it

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Lily,
Here is what I would share as a GG, one who loves a CD and being a psychotherapist. I think gender is on a continium. For most of us that continium is rather fluid and yet 'jelled'; we identify with our assign gender and yet can express traits from the other gender. Like you said, you identify as female and yet can express traits considered sterotypically male (i.e., logical, 'tough-nosed', unemotional). This aspect of gender, I believe, is primarily learned. It's what the culture tells us is male or female and what is acceptable in terms of that expression of gender. Now, for males in our society, I think they are in a unique position. Because at their end of the gender continium, the expectations for the expression of gender is rather rigid (i.e., boys shouldn't cry, "take it like a man", etc.). Some boys and men simply accept this and try to conform to the expectations of their gender and do so well. This, however, doesn't mean they're the most functional human beings on the planet in my book. Now for other men and I think for a variety of reasons, some biological, some due to nuture and some due to nature--this is not so clear. I think for some a split in their gender occurs when they may have tried on nylons for the first time and received sexual feelings, as well as some rather specific feminine feelings. This may start them on an exploration of their gender. For them what seems like a whole different person emerges. ANd for some, this different person seems to be quite distinct for them. Eventually for some, this separate person may end up being their dominant expression of gender and with what they feel most accurately reflects their inner self. And for others, as Wendy said, there may be a tug of war so to speak of the two genders. Going back and forth between the two. Maybe wanting the gender to remain one but feeling torn if they don't express the two sides they don't feel whole. This is my rather simplified analysis of what I think about gender and how I think about it. Hope it helps.

hugs
kew

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Maude,
Nothing wrong with that. I think for each it is different and that is okay. I don't think there's any right way to be or feel about your gender. I think the key is to accept where you are and that where you are is okay. Afterall, it is a continium. :)

hugs
kew

[Wendy me]

Kew

I was hopin you would show up !

Don't know how to splain it but sometimes it feels like two distinct individuals ? When i took the Cogiati test my results were (Androgyne) and it mentioned both sexes ? Maybe my mind has not let them combine. it just seems easier right now to treat them separate ?
Sounds like i need to go with Julie M to her next therapy session !!

maude

thats grate if you can get them to play nice together .that would be way to eazy for me (someones allways standing inthe cornor)

[Wendy me]

Play together ??? are you kiddin ..

I have to keep my guard up otherwise there would be incest in this family !

maude

maude wow that gives ahole new meaning to go fuc_ yuor slefe :eek:

wow ,wow well let me say.................well :o never mind ;)

[kimmjacoby]

Lily
I Can Only Speak For My Self.
I'm Now 52 Years Old, And Been Crosdressing Since The Age Of 10.
As A Young Adult, It Was Necessary To Crossdress To Allow That Feminine Part Of My Personality To Come Out In Public.
In Drab, I Did All The Things Most Bad Boys Do.

At This Point In My Evolution, In Drab, Both Sides Are Intergrated Together. I'm Softer, Much More Understanding, Compassionate, Etc. All The Traits That Socity Would Sterio-type As Female.
I Still Go Out Le Femme, But Not As Often As Earlier In My Life. I Do Still Enjoy The Empowerment It Provides When Out Le Femme, I Never Have To Pay For My Own Drinks. :)

Unfortunately, (this Puts The Cart Ahead Of The Horse) Some Of Us Need The Acceptance Of Others Before We Can Accept Ourselves.

[Amelie]

Now you are going to here something bizzare. I have two personalities that I know of, there might be more. But my two personalities are both female. I have no male personality. I have two freaking women inside of me constantly fighting. One wants to be here, the other wants no part of this place. I am a different person when I go out, compared to the one that wants to stay in.
In fact, they both have seperate friends. Each of the personalities friends never meet each other, they are seperate.

Amelie

[Wendy me]

Now you are going to here something bizzare. I have two personalities that I know of, there might be more. But my two personalities are both female. I have no male personality. I have two freaking women inside of me constantly fighting. One wants to be here, the other wants no part of this place. I am a different person when I go out, compared to the one that wants to stay in.
In fact, they both have seperate friends. Each of the personalities friends never meet each other, they are seperate.

Amelie
that not bizzare no way............isen't that the way everyboady is????????

[Stephanie Brooks]

Amelie,

That explains lots.

On the forum, I see someone whom I admire. In you I see goodness and strength. I see an inner beauty. I also see distance, stoicism, and shadows of the street. I see survivor.

Yes I suspect if I ever saw you irl, I'd see a different side, but I bet I'd admire the core person at least as much as I do now.

[Sweet Susan]

When I am home and dressed as Susan, I am still me. I do many of the things I'd like to do, but I'm almost always alone, and the wife doesn't really like the primping,etc. However, on the rare ocassion that I go out, say to a trans meeting, I actually do make a distinct change. Whether it is purposeful or inflected or simply garrish attempts, I'm never sure, I just know that I "feel" much more inclined to be a different person and personality. Having said that, I'm the same great guy or gal that I have always known.

[christine55]

Hi all.


Basically, a lot of you seem to refer to yourselves as two different people - a guy and a girl - living in the same body. I was wondering why it is you feel this way, rather than feeling like they're just aspects of one whole person?



..........

Lily, this exactly describes what I have been struggling with. I've seen as I see myself dressing more and more a definite neglect of my male self which is plainly very self destructive. One thing which I think might help is to work on things pertaining to my male life, (seeking better job, improving my job skills,
etc.) while I am in Christine mode. The idea that tg people are two different individuals is a harmful distortion of the truth. While I certainly feel and act differently depending on the mode I am currently in Christine is very definitely alive in R as is R very much alive in Christine. To quote a famous sailor "I yam what I yam"
Hugs, Christine

[Fiona K]

Kew hit it exactly for me, Gender is a continium, not a spectrum!!

We each are in our place on that continum, sadly (western) society is intolerant if you're not at the opposite extremes so we perhaps tend to seperate our outside persona from that which is inside, at least in our interactions with society.

When we're here though, I feel we see people as they really are, friends with unique understanding of much of what the others feel.

Love
Fiona

[Sharon]

For the most part Sharon and "him" have two pretty distinct personalities, each very much at peace with themselves. He's into stereotypical guy stuff: sports, women, cars, woodworking, and so forth. I'm (Sharon again!) more aware of me: how I look, how others look at me, how I feel, etc.
"He's" more sensitive that the average male, but not unusually so. He's just more aware of other's feelings and how he can express his own (through writing).
I have taken this sensitivity that he has and have expanded on it, although, to be honest, I'm never really a "girly" person even when I pamper myself the most. I still have the same interests, I just might be found putting together a bookcase in my finest, that's all :) .
So, as I write this, I suppose there has been a melding of the personalities, but they're still two separate people.
Sharon

[Amelie]

Ameilie

Which one should I hit on ?


maude

Maude, You don't want to meet the other person. She is kinda evil, She would rob you, strip you naked and tie you to a lamp-post in downtown Balt.
Unless you like this sort of stuff?
Amelie

[JennyCD]

As for myself, I am definately not two different people. I am one whole person. While I do have both a male and a female side, which side is dominant at a given moment depends on the situation. Hmm, that's not even exactly right. It's more like, which personality charactoristics are needed for a situation. They are both, male and female, a part of me equally.

I have often wondered about the split personality thing as my inner dialog has always been "we" "us" "our" ect.... I don't think I've ever internally referred to myself as "I". To be honest, I've alwasy thought that was a bit weird, but then I also have no idea whether everyone else does the same thing or not.

The biggest thing about CDing is that it gives me a chance to explore and develop those traits that society deems to be "female" and boys/men aren't suppose to exhibit. For me, it's more of becoming a whole complete person instead of just half of one.

[Marianne]

I'm not two different people, I just have stronger/weaker personality aspects that take the forefront depending on whether I'm dressed, dressed and madeup or in 'drab'.

[Lily_gg]

Hmmmmm *frowns slightly in thought*

Thanks for all the answers so far everyone - keep 'em coming!

It's reassuring for me to see that at least some of you are talking about yourselves in the same way that I talk about myself - one person with lots of different facets, both traditionally male and female. For example, things I enjoy/am good at: DIY, baking/cooking, cross-stitch kits, playing music, mathematics, logic puzzles, computers & bit of programming, building Airfix model kits, driving like a loon with a death-wish, painting my nails, reading/watching sci-fi, reading/watching rom-coms, shopping (shoes!!!)...

But none of these things ever made me question that I was a girl - I was a tomboy as a kid, but still a girl - and I've never felt the need to look like a guy, even when I wear 'guy' clothes/do 'guy' things - this is why I'm struggling to understand this wanting to look/be completely femme thing I think. I do sometimes wish I could be more 'girlie' though - maybe bf and I can learn that together? :p

And the continuum thing does make sense to me (thanks Kew!), it was just this expression of it as two people that I didn't understand. I guess maybe the two people expression scares me slightly, because, from what I've read on here, it sounds very "I'm two people, but I want to get rid of that one, and be completely this one" - I don't want to lose my boyfriend... :o

Anyhow, I'm finding all this really interesting - please continue? And I'm sure I'll find out bfs views on who/what he is once he gets here (soon!)

[Marianne]

Lily,
I often refer to 'Marianne' as a different person. Usually when I'm chatting with friends on other message boards and the conversation goes that way.

I'll say something like "As 'Marianne' I would/wouldn't do that", or 'I would, but Marianne wouldn't'.

It's not a different personality so much as a way to express a different aspect yet maintain the distinction that some attitudes/behavior patterns are predominantly associated with the 'male' side and some are predominantly associated with the 'female' side.

For example, in 'male' mode I look at a pretty girl and see a pretty girl. In 'female' mode I look at a pretty girl and look at how she's done her makeup, whether she's 'accessorized', whether the colors match and usually my first thoughts include "I wonder what that outfit would look on me". In female mode I kind of 'bury' the male thought process of "I wonder what she would look like naked?".

I guess it's more 'aspect' than anything else for me.

[carolynhcd]

I do not now feel, nor have I ever felt, that there was any kind of split or double personality. My mannerisms change when I dress, and through time my life in drab has become more comfortable with expressing those more feminine mannerisms. I just don't much care what people think of me now. I have lived in Hollywood and San Francisco, I have acted in theatre and opera, many of my best friends have been gay and lesbian (I myself am bi) and I have learned to be myself and not to "act" when I don't want to act. I have always viewed the centralization of modes of behaviour to be the ideal, meaning that I could behave with what society views as masculine AND feminine gestures, values, behaviour as seemed most reflective of who I have always felt myself to be. I think that I have been very lucky in all of this, because of the course of study I set for myself while yet a child. Many of the girls on this site are focussed on their christian upbringing, and cannot help but judge themselves accordingly. In time, they come to some composition that they can live with. But I think that common christianity is a very destructive creed for those who wish to transcend the world they have inherited. While I was a very pious catholic youth, my studies of world mythology allowed me to see many other ways of being than the limited world view profferred by nominal christianity. I have spent years studying christianity, as well, but when one reads the many gospels and other texts suppressed by the early church fathers, one sees there are many other ways of seeing Jesus and the way of following him, if that be one's bent. Studying Greek, Roman, Norse, Gaelic, Hindu, Buddhist and North American Indian mythologies provides wider vistas of possibility. I think it is common, in the early psychological stages of self-acceptance in crossdressers, to manufacture the split personality. It allows an escape valve for guilt. I believe that with time and YOUR acceptance, your friend's self acceptance will find less need for the escape valve as the guilt may well be lessened. By way of example, many on this site have mentioned that, in the early stages of their dressing, they experienced a definite sexual component, an erotic thrill that, when slaked through Onanism, prompted an immediate rejection of their actions and a quick change back into drab. Almost universally, this declines with time and they feel more comfortable and less titillated. I feel that the recent brouhaha on this site has created somewhat of a chilling effect on intelligent discussion of what we all know to be the case. So, I will leave it here and invite you to PM me for any further discussion of this matter at carolynhcd@yahoo.com.

[T-girlMichelle]

I'd have say there isn't two distinct personalities exactly. It's more like two boxes that I put myself into, Michelle is always around and likes to think shes in charge and in a perfect world she would be. But the world is full of evil, homophobic, nasty people. So I let Michael run the show, but it's realy all me just trying to over compensate for my femme ways.

[StephanieCD]

Lily - I can just give you my point of view.

For me, CDing is a fetish. You can look up transvestic fetishism. If you bf is similar then perhaps you might be put more at ease. I, personally, have no feelings of two selves - I believe I even have posted on the topic. There's just me. Sometimes, I'm "too feminine" but most of the time I'm just a guy. I was beat up most of my adolescent years for being a "f*gg*t" even though I wasn't - I even had a girlfriend. But those football jocks could sense just a little bit too much softness in me, I think - I've always been the guy girls said things like "I hate men, well not you - you don't count" - girls always trusted me with girl talk, changed near me and the like. They'd say I was like one of the girls but a guy - there was no CDing involved, I'm just further toward female on the gender continuum than most guys.

When I dress I'm just turned on. I don't feel like raising my voice and being "Stephanie" - but when I'm dressed I allow myself to act more feminine. So I can get it out - most of the time I'm busy pretending (out of habit) to be more GUY than I really am.

Here, on the forums - its a fun kind of roleplaying for me. Perhaps your boyfriend is more like me if he hasn't confessed a hidden self or introduced you to his dressed persona. For me, the name is unrequired - icing on a cake that exists just to be eaten real quick anyway.

Hell - I forced myself to come up with a name as a way of accepting this side of me. I found it very therapeutic. Like, by giving "it" a name, I could put "it" away when I was done. Compartmentalizing myself to gain control of the urge, maybe? (Kew? ;) ) And, just maybe, a bit of disassociating myself from the "problem" by giving it a name other than myself.

All of that is just me. I really hope that helps... I dug down on that one ;)

[Jen_TGCD]

Lily ~
When I first read "Jung’s Anima Theory and How it Relates to Crossdressing" ( www.geocities.com/KarenSpecial/junganima.html?200415 (http://www.geocities.com/KarenSpecial/junganima.html?200415) ) I said, YES!!! This is me!!!

It's an interesting summery and explains a lot about the impulses and various stages of CDing.

I am one person... with an awareness of my male and female aspects. When I'm in male mode, it is more comfortable to assimilate into society as a "man". When I'm in female mode, it is more comfortable to think of myself as a woman. I don't like the feeling of being a "guy in a dress" so, if I can move into a female mental state, the experience is that much more rewarding.

However, it's not always possible to be one or the other... and what happens is a melding of both. The female that blends into male mode is a pleasant experience but the male that creeps into the female mode is disruptive and annoying. Not much I can do about that... it's probably a testosterone thing, as well as, having a male body that just doesn't look or feel feminine.

Anyway... just one of me. It's cool!!! :cool:

[samanthajay]

Maude, You don't want to meet the other person. She is kinda evil, She would rob you, strip you naked and tie you to a lamp-post in downtown Balt.
Unless you like this sort of stuff?
Amelie
oooo kinky :D

[samanthajay]

although i have been dressing for awhile samantha has only came out resintlly. i can say that sam and jay are 2 diffrent personallities with a few of the same intrest although jay isn't gay. samantha will look at a few guys here and there. she will also be a little flirtatious with guys. if i'm in drag as samantha im still jay up untill im drunk or somthing inside me says its time for her to come out. she will also come out a little when im not dress. ill walk like a girl sometimes when im not aware of it. or when im having sex with my girl freind and if she is on top and doing certain things samantha will come out. if she comes out and im in drab or naked she will shiver like she's cold as in otherwords saying to me or my gf that "im cold with out my girl clouthes" thats is how i am. when im on here im mostly jay untill a few speical friends start to pm me and then i get a little mushy and girly. thats how it is with me. jay and samantha.samanthajay :D

[Alayna]

I'm in the gender continuom boat...I sometimes think that we're doing ourselves harm by labeling ourselves as a male or a female rather than a person with masculine and feminine traits. If everyone in the world were one sex so that no gender-roles could be assigned, what gender would all of humanity lean toward. Would we be right in the middle?

This reminds me of a question I had for you girls...When I'm dressed or in drab I feel uncomfortable using any name but my own. Although I use the name "Alayna" as my user ID and it's my "femme" name, I still prefer to be called Marc even when I'm fully dressed and made-up, hair and all. It sorta feels fake to me, like I'm hiding something or being insincere or something. It just doesn't really feel like "me". Does anyone else feel this way? Am I just not used to the whole idea? Maybe it's an example of the gender continuom?;) If anyone has experienced this, what did you do? Did you ignore it until you got used to it?

whoa..too many questions at once...This has been kind of an issue for me of late as I'm now dressing up and going out more often

[Glenda]

We are all individuals so there is no "one" answer. My friends tell me that the clothes don't make the man (or woman). I'm told I'm the same regardless of the mode I'm in. I display a lot of feminine traits in male mode and I'm sure the opposite is true as well. Hopefully your SO does not have a hidden agenda. I would imagine that he/she just prefers to be open and honest with you. I would take that as a good sign. I believe I'm about halfway on the gender continuum. I transition back and forth without a lot of fanfare or liberating feelings. I'm just being me.

[chocolateboygirl]

well I guess I have to weigh in on this one! I feel that my feminine persona allows me to express the more female side of me, which I feel that I cannot express when dressed in my male drabs.. however, more and more I have been trying to get away with wearing more feminine cuts of clothing and experimenting with light amounts of makeup while in male mode.. so it seems that my female side is creeping into my male life more and more, and I'm ok with that...

just so you all know, I've been hanging out on the beach in southern mexico, which explains my absence.. and since I have to pay 10 pesos per hour of public internet, I don't get much of a chance to check out the forum!

but I'm not dead, and any rumours as such are greatly exaggerated!

a la huego!

[Julie]

just so you all know, I've been hanging out on the beach in southern mexico, which explains my absence.. and since I have to pay 10 pesos per hour of public internet, I don't get much of a chance to check out the forum!
but I'm not dead, and any rumours as such are greatly exaggerated!
a la huego!

CBG, good to have you back.

JJ

[GraceUSA]

This is me... no woman and man personallities, just me. I've always remembered growing up having to mentally change my poster and manerisms so I wouldn't stand out against other guys. I always admired tom boys because I though they had the best of both worlds except for the slight teasing. The thing is, there is no common term (that I know of) for boys that are girlish. They just get mocked and beat up in school. I am a girly man, some days I feel like jeans and a t, others nice slacks and a lacy top. The only way I feel I would be accepted is if I go all out and put on a wig and pretend I'm a women. I love my birth name and can't see giving it up, but I us a alias online so its more comfortable for others.

My best advice Lily is to read the advice here but please don't catagorize your boyfriend. Please let him be who he needs to be.

[racquel]

yes.when in femme i am different then when i am not.the women who know both sides of me and interact with both prefer, spending time with racquel.very few men know racquel but the ones who do prefer the drab me.

[Vallari]

Well I thought a while back I had two personalities, but lately it's like they've just impacted eachother and got all entangled up in one another! :p So now Im wearing women's belts to class while en-drab and mens shoes while en-femme! And dont even ask me what sex my earrings belong to anymore because I couldn't tell you. So I honestly couldn't tell you. I think in the big picture though it's just one big dynamic personality. :)

[Nikki A.]

I don't feel that I am two people. Rather, I like the continum thought, I slide from one to the other and in a perfect world I think that I probably be androgynous in my dressing and appearance. I don't see the harm in wearing a skirt, heels and still be me if that was the mood I was in. Realistically though in todays society this is a recipe for disaster. I don't try to act differently but neither have I gone out en femme and tried to pass as a GG because I know that I can not at this time. I've been out dressed on halloween and been me.
Please don't be threatened by his femme persona it really is our way trying to be a complete person. Be supportive, set guidelines and you might be surprised by the wonderful person you have chosen to spend your life with.

[Wendy me]

i some times feel like wendy's like involved in a relationship with this guy and thay just can't get it right..........kinda this love hate thing going on ...............you know "he is such a asshole why don't you leave him????"..................sick and twisted ya.......... but sometimes i love him.................just a on off switch would be nice

[Bonnie-OR]

Here's another stuck somewhere in the continuim. I was a late in life baby to parent that lived fer from populated area. My brother is several years older than I, and there were no other children my age when I was young. The only people I was around the formative years were my Mom, and her friends. Dad worked 6/7 days a week, and when he was home, ruled with an Iron fist. So there are two opposite role models. I admired Mom, and helped around the house, and with the cooking, but also strived to be the little man Dad wanted. In school, my best friends were often girls, and I sometimes related better to them than the guys. I was never much into sports, and as soon as I was old enough, got a job, very "macho" type, so was forced to stifle any kind of girli stuff. As soon as I was out of High School, off to the military, again, all the macho stuff rules the lifestyle, with the occasional chances to act a little femm. Now that I'm retired from the military, back in the work force, I find myself again in a totally macho type workplace. This leaves little room for showing the softer side to the world, so I am forced to just show it to myself, and all the wonderful friends here. I can't imagine changing the male lifestyle I've chosen, I work in a sport related job, and it is my favorite form of recreation. So just like most here, there is on person, just forced to adapt to differing circumstances. Hope that makes sense. Huggs, Bonnie

[Wenda]

Interesting thread: wayne owns two pairs of mens shoes, two pairs of western boots, and two pairs of lace-up boots, most of which are at least 5 years old. He sees absolutely no need to shop for footwear. Wenda has 12 pairs of shoes, one pair of 'decent' boots and two pairs of hooker boots, with 6 pairs of shoes and 2pairs of boots coming. The newest underwear in wayne's drawer was purchasing around 1994, some go back to at least 1989. Wenda's drawers are new and bulging. Wayne is his gf Jo's backer and her support. Wenda is Jaya's serving girl and pedicurist. Wayne's clothes are all pretty conservative. If left to her own devices, wenda's can get a bit ****ty. Wenda doesn't come into the forum now unless she is wearing something, like her knee high stockings, her thigh high vinyl boots, her adhesive A's and her clingy black string top. Jo and Jaya seem quite happy with both of them, as long as they (she)know9s) who they are going to be encountering and going out with. Wenda seems to have a bit of a luxury going, living in a fantasy world without the stresses of a job, bills etc. Maybe an escape for wayne? When I joined this forum, nobody told me i had to think! my head hurts. wenda, maybe.

[Sharon]

I find it amazing that some of the closeted girls are the same person in both of their societal roles. My hat's off to you all.
Since I'm in the closet also, who knows who I would be if I was interacting in daily life. Sitting here at home, which is where I am most of the time, or occasional forays out in the yard or in the car isn't a true reflection of who I would be out in the world.
Sharon and Bill share the same brain, the same heart, and the same soul, but their place in our society is vastly different, or would be in Sharon's case. He is a man who has some so-called feminine characteristics such as sensitivity, tenderness, and empathy, but he is still a man, still physically and mentally strong both in how I behave and in how I'm seen by others. I have a feeling Sharon, if and when she makes her public debut, would eventually become more like Bill given enough time. I would like to be feminine in every way possible, but there is a lifetime of maleness in me.
The language I use in this forum are not the words Bill uses. Bill doesn't sign letters with "love" or "hugs", excepting with a select few family members. He isn't prone to say how "cute" something is, or say "sweetie", "cuddles", or countless other words or phrases.
Bill's closet is drab for the most part, in each sense of the word. Every pair of pants is either white, black, or a version of brown or tan. Sharon's closet is full of color, both bold and soft pastels. Bill has always tried to make himself distinctive in the colorful shirts and ties he wears, but they are definitely masculine. Bill also doesn't wear jewelry of any sort, excepting an occasional watch and the cross he wears around his neck. Sharon loves jewelry, precious and costume, as long as it's bright and pretty.
If I am free to be Sharon whenever and wherever I choose, Bill would still exist. I like Bill. I like who he is and I like his ideals. He is basically a pretty good guy. He has his weaknesses to be sure, and many of them!!, but his heart is usually in the right place. Why would I want to lose that? Besides, every love that I have ever had has been as Bill.

I've wandered a bit off topic here, but I'm going to leave my words as I wrote them. The gist of what I started out saying, in my verbous way, is that no matter how closely related Sharon and Bill are, or will be, they are still their own unique personas.

Whew!
Sharon

[Rachel Ann]

I think that many of us have multiple personalities without having Multiple Personality Disorder. It's a matter of how functional and well integrated we are. I have perhaps 5 personalities that I can only visit in deep trance. Rick brought Rachel over to the conscious side with a lot of coaxing, pleading and the temptation of lovely clothes.

As Sharon says, language and mannerisms vary according to who is "driving".
You might say that dressing is a "trigger" to bring Rachel to the forefront.

I'm always the same person, but I am not whole without Rachel present. As Stephanie said, Rick is a damaged person without Rachel, and Rachel would be frightened and lonely without her "big brother".

So, same person - but different personalities are expressed. And emotions are processed differently. Not all that different from the way I might express one personality at a business office, another at a rock 'n' roll show.

But we still like the same movies, think the same jokes are funny, like the same restaurants and share the same pain and joy in our heart! :)

[samanthajay]

that's amazing. its totally like that for me at times too. :eek:

[Jen_TGCD]

So, same person - but different personalities are expressed. And emotions are processed differently. Not all that different from the way I might express one personality at a business office, another at night at a rock 'n' roll show.
But we still like the same movies, think the same jokes are funny, like the same restaurants and share the same pain and joy in our heart!
I like the way you expressed that! Yes... I agree!!! :)

[Lily_gg]

Hmmm.... I go away for a week, and there's so much to think about when I come back!!!

Thanks all, this is all very interesting and useful for me. To reassure those who are worried - I'm not trying to put my bf in a box, or stick a label on him or whatever, I just want to understand where he's coming from, and help him to understand (he's been in major denial for decades) himself too. And I know there are some things that I could have difficulty with, or questions that he won't know how to answer yet, but that you girls can, so that my knowledge of those answers will help him to arrive at his own answers without feeling pressured to immediately give me answers when I ask the difficult questions.

So, once again, thank you! :)

[Georgette]

I have read this post and reread it and the more I look at it I feel I am definitley 2 different people, The male macho side of sunday afternoon football, and tailgate parties, I love to hunt although I only hunt with a bow, but I do have quite a firearm collection. Then the femme side of a loving caring person, not really giving any thought to my male side. I am not an analyst,( not too good at spelling either) but this is how I feel, I am two different personalities. I only hope and pray that I don't have a conflict with this as it progresses as it has in the past 6 months, I definitly feel that Georgette is slowy taking over and I really don't know how to cope with it. I guess that I will have to face that when the time comes. :rolleyes:
Wow I said all of that LOL.
LOVE & HUGS

[susanmaid]

Oo not worry too much about the conflict of two personalities. Just relax and let your femme persona take charge and find your true self. SUSANMAID

[Jen_TGCD]

I was a tomboy as a kid, but still a girl - and I've never felt the need to look like a guy, even when I wear 'guy' clothes/do 'guy' things - this is why I'm struggling to understand this wanting to look/be completely femme thing I think. I, too, went back and re-read all the posts. The above statement sent me deep into thought... wondering why I do have the impulse to dress and express a "female" persona.

I do a lot of the traditional "male" things and I also do some of the traditional "female" stuff that, of course, I do in "male" mode. I do not have the TS feelings of wanting to be a girl/woman. So, now I'm wondering if the female side of my brain is just enhanced by looking the part. Trying to feel it, experience it, adds to the enhancement.

And... why is this CD thing "addictive"??? Is it just an obsessive/compulsive thing... like sports fanatics, shopping fanatics, etc. I was obsessed with collecting 50s memorabilia, at one time. I spent most of my expendable income and all of my free time going to yard sales and second hand stores. I read everything I could find on the subject. I did get over it and now limit myself to art pottery. And, my CDing, has evolved into finding "complete outfits" instead of just a lingerie thing or buying anything "fluffy and shiny".

Still no concrete answers... just more questions.

Unless your boyfriend is TS, you might just think of "dressing" as an expression of the anima that exists in all of us. The level and intensity is where understanding and compromise will come into play.

Good luck... and you are to be commended for, at least, trying to comprehend this fascinating mystery!!!

(Now... I really need to get to all the yardwork that I have been ignoring because I've become "obsessed" with this forum! :o )

[Janice Ann]

:confused: Last week I went on on a house cleaning rampage, My daughter announced that she and her tribe would be here for to spend a few days over Thanksgiving.
Now I have to hide all my crossdressing goodies, make up in the bathroom,
a closet full of skirts and dresses,an overflowing pantie drawer, breast forms.
I soon realized that she had more clothes than he did.
But I live here, this is my home, why do I have to hide everything ?
Because that's the way life is--Not fair but true--
What I wanted to do was wear that nice dress for dinner.
I enjoyed the company- a good time was had by all-
Now Janice can have her turn, she will go out and about this Holiday Season
No one will notice me in those crowded stores and shop-shop -shop.
We just have to give each other the time.
This may not be what a normal person does-- but for now it works for us.

[Rachel Ann]

And... why is this CD thing "addictive"??? Is it just an obsessive/compulsive thing...

Jen

I don't think it's an addiction or a compulsion for most - maybe a few go overboard. Addictions and compulsions are inherently bad things of which one seeks to be "cured". Many know that our inner girl will never "go away".

There is a loose analogy to sex: Almost everyone develops the drive at puberety. Some become celibate for one reason or another but the desire and attraction never leave for most of one's life.

Love

[Jen_TGCD]

Jen
I don't think it's an addiction or a compulsion for most - maybe a few go overboard. Addictions and compulsions are inherently bad things of which one seeks to be "cured". Many know that our inner girl will never "go away".

There is a loose analogy to sex: Almost everyone develops the drive at puberety. Some become celibate for one reason or another but the desire and attraction never leave for most of one's life.
LoveRachel ~
:o I know... I'm just a bit lazy today and couldn't think of the right terminology... so I put quotation marks on "addiction". I was mostly thinking about my own "compulsive" behavior... which I tend to do. (Instead of doing the yardwork that is still waiting for me!!! :) ) Music is another "passion" that I just can't get enough of or learn more about. I'm wanting to get a keyboard/synthesizer, a new custom-built bass guitar and a home recording studio <laughing...> but I just don't know when I would have the time to play with it all! This is "compulsive" behavior that is being repressed at the moment!

Regarding your "loose analogy"... makes sense. How could you possibly describe a sexual urge or attraction? It just is! I gave up trying to rationalize the impetus of CDing, a long time ago, but Lily's post just got me wondering about it again.

Crossdressing all makes sense to me from a reincarnation and karma perspective... but not eveyone is aware of the Spiritual aspects of bringing certain conditions into this life to best learn from. So, I try to find ways to take that awareness and put it into non-secular terms and reasoning... if I can. I kind of like the "It Just Is" reasoning but that is not always comforting to those that are still questioning their own or others behavior.

Anyway, thanks for responding. I love reading your posts and hearing about all of your past adventures!

[Rachel Ann]

I love reading your posts and hearing about all of your past adventures!
Thanks honey! I'm a real ham, love an audience, and can go on all day. I suppose I must do something about that. :o

Love

[Sharon]

When you think about it -- it's probably better to have one too many personalities than one too few.

Deep, huh? :)

[Rachel Ann]

Actually, that is deep! :)

[Sharon]

Thank you. I have my moments. Or moment, anyway.

[MiaPink]

There's only one person here...a person who wears women's clothes. I still dig doing the same things in drab as I do when I am dressed as a woman. The only thing that changes is my clothes and my mannerisms.

[Georgette]

Thanks Girls, but it is really deeper than what I can say. I know I have given some water cooler advise to some of you and I have always said trust in your self and, a little prayer to the Almighty doesn't hurt either, What i am going through now is hit me with both feet, right in the head. First I came out to my Wife just about 2 weeks ago and now I have to sign papers for the sale of my business in the next few days, I have divested myself of what (HE) stood for and I think that Georgette is very hapy for that therefore she is trying to take over. God I pray I have the strength to overcome this, as I am to far along in years to have SRS or even to think about it,
I hope I haven't sounded like a fool but I needed to let it out some where.
LOVE TO ALL
Georgette

[robin29]

I myself dont believe in all this 2nd personality BS. I have 1 body 1 mind. I enjoy to be Femme. but if i need to be in drab i can do that 2. if i had 2 personalities that wouldnt happen. if your male personality was being dominant you surely wouldnt be wearing a dress would you? and if your femme personality was dominant then you would be in drag & it wouldnt care who saw you.. correct me if im wrong, but think about it.. can you go from Femme to he if you need to...................................... ;)

[Georgette]

Robin
Yes I can go from Femme to Male right now , but I am also very concerned there will come the time when I won't be able to do that because 1 or the other personality will take over completly. Call me a not case if you like but until you walk a mile in my shoes Please don't judge me, I don't mean that in a faceiuos way, but I in my own mind feel that there are 2 very distincly different people occuping this body, maybe only one in fantasy, but 2 in mind.
I hope you didn't take my comments wrong as I don't want to hurt anyone here.
LOVE Georgette

[Amelie]

I myself dont believe in all this 2nd personality BS. I have 1 body 1 mind. I enjoy to be Femme. but if i need to be in drab i can do that 2. if i had 2 personalities that wouldnt happen. if your male personality was being dominant you surely wouldnt be wearing a dress would you? and if your femme personality was dominant then you would be in drag & it wouldnt care who saw you.. correct me if im wrong, but think about it.. can you go from Femme to he if you need to...................................... ;)

Even if the female was dominant, it wouldn't mean you'd have to wear a dress. There are factors of safety. I look at it like this, a GG is all fem, but she can't always wear what she wants. She may desire to wear a mini-skirt, but outside ciecumstances might make if t difficult for her, it might not be safe to do so. The same goes for CDs, just because their fem side is dominant, outside pressures and safety concerns prevent the CD from wearing a skirt or dress. I understand what you are saying, you make sense, I just thought I can give my view on maybe why the other(Fem) personality can't always show itself.
I don't really know if changing personalities can be controled like a switch. I think some here get an urge(Use for a better term), sort of like a desire for the moment to be fem. I think it is something inside them that they can,t control, I think this is their fem side coming out. Their other personality, not only do they want to dress, but they become the female. I am only giving what I think, there can be many more reasons.
Amelie

PS-I don't have 2 personalities,,,,I have three.Lol

[Fiona K]

There is still only me in here, I've noticed that the femme side is nearer (less repressed?) the surface since I came out to my wife but I am still one person. Back to the Conitunum again!
Love
Fiona

[Georgette]

Thanks Amelie I wanted to here some positive input on this, as right now I am considering some therapy to deal with this. I will let all of you know how it's going.
Thank all of you wonderful and caring people.
Love
Georgette

[Amelie]

Thanks Amelie I wanted to here some positive input on this, as right now I am considering some therapy to deal with this. I will let all of you know how it's going.
Thank all of you wonderful and caring people.
Love
Georgette
That's Ok Georgette, there are many reasons why people do the things they do. No one has all the answers or the correct answers, everyone is unique in their behavior. Hope all goes all right with you, just hang in there, don't let no one put you under.
Love Amelie

[traci del rio]

It is a bit of a continuam from one prsona to another but at the same time I do not agrre with Jung. After all everyone has got an anima and animus. His so called great theroy has got nothing to do with one who feels very uncompfrotable drab but is a total star when enfemme. Why would I whant individuation and become asexual and ungendered as Jung would have whanted a TRANSGEDEREST to be when I could be a sane totaly seexy she-male if only socity would accsept me. FOR I think Im a woman there for Iam a woman. So forget the middle way forget Jung and if You see Budda on the rode kill him and pass me another pair of platform stiletoes and a micro-miniskirt!

[YvonneM]

Hi

I have always thought of myself as Yvonne, but Ian is the mask I wear for the world outside.
Ian has a life, hobbies etc. Which I share but I can never be me as Ian.

That probably confused both of us
:confused:

Yvonne

[Jerry]

It helps to think that there is a sexuality continum. That idea helps to answer a lot of questions about an individual person, relationships, and our culture.

But I try to keep myself together as one individual. I use my middle name, which could be interpreted feminine, but it's still me.

Hog hugs. Jerry

[Stephanie Brooks]

Hi Yvonne!

Welcome to the forum!!!!!!! Confusion? What's that?! :p

Hope you enjoy the place!

(Hey girls, we got us another! She's already done 3 posts in one day. She's probably already addicted. Muah ha ha ha!!!!!)

Uh, Yvonne, just ignore the girl behind that screen.

[SatinSarah]

I have given this some thought as I struggle with this idea. sorry i havn't read all of the other answers but this is my simple analysis! I am one person and one personality. A third of me wants to express my feminine side/thoughts/clothes. Society doesn't allow me to do that in any way so when I get the chance to dress I want to have sarah conform to what gilrs do. I therefore have to become totally woman and that is so different from the macho workd I normally inhabit. If I coud wake up everyday and do exactly what I want I would be dressing in a bra and pants today with a few other girly bits and my suit. I want the best of both worlds most days. Some days more macho - others to be sarah all day. Mix the two and I am me all through but with a different mood.

[Elysia]

I’m starting up an old tread here. I thought it was a great question and wanted to get my two cents in.


Hi all.

I have a question that I've been pondering over the last few days, which I'm sure a lot of other SOs have difficulties with too, so I thought I'd pose it here:

Basically, a lot of you seem to refer to yourselves as two different people - a guy and a girl - living in the same body. I was wondering why it is you feel this way, rather than feeling like they're just aspects of one whole person?

For example, I can be happy, I can be sad. I can be quiet, I can be irritatingly noisy. That doesn't mean that I see myself as four different people; happy, sad, quiet and noisy; living in one body - they're just different bits of me. Equally, I can think in a very male way sometimes (the whole maths, computers, logic bit), this doesn't mean that I see myself as one logical male person, and one emotional, irrational female person. :p

I'm kind of struggling with the idea that my boyfriend might contain a whole new person that I'm going to have to get to know, and hopefully like, for us to maintain a happy relationship - if it turns out that he's just the same person as he always was (albeit a bit more open, loving and intimate, rather than closed off), who just happens to wear girlie clothes and/or look like a full on girl sometimes, I think I can cope with that ok. If he is actually two different people, I may well end up feeling threatened by 'her', and this wouldn't be ok...

Views/thoughts etc?...........

The simple answer is that it’s a metaphor. A way of describing or categorizing a phenomenon that’s difficult to get a handle on. It inevitably falls short of the reality—I doubt there are very many cross-dressers who really think that there are two distinct people inside them—but when describing how it feels to want to cross-dress, the metaphor of having a dissatisfied girl within does seem to effectively illustrate the feeling.

One aspect of this metaphor that is powerfully descriptive, is it’s embodiment of the conflict involved. For example: Let’s say something has happened that is good for you but not so good for a friend. You may be caught between the happiness you feel for yourself and the empathetic sadness you feel for your friend. Which emotion do you choose to express? You might describe how you dealt with this dilemma by saying the excited child in you wanted to leap for joy but the more compassionate adult in you held her back till after you had comforted your friend. The adult-you told the child-you that she would get her turn later, when she couldn’t hurt your friend’s feelings by expressing herself.

When there is no inner conflict to describe, you don’t need a metaphor that evokes a sense of competing interests. For most of us, inner conflict is always involved when it comes to cross-dressing.

A big part of the problem we struggle with is that it does not seem possible to be both girl and boy at the same time. Yet, for most of us, that is exactly what’s required to be whole. Why does this seem impossible, indeed why must we even think of it in such terms? It is because, from our perspective, society has created and insists upon polarized gender roles that leave no acceptable way for us to express ourselves naturally as whole people. We try to stretch beyond the limitations imposed by society but, try as we might, we can not separate ourselves from its powerful influence. So, in an effort to transcend these polarized roles we end up embodying them.

In other threads I’ve read that in some Native American cultures there was a third gender that was used to describe people who had both male and female characteristics. Something like that might help us more comfortable express our natural selves more holistically but, frankly, I don’t think the introduction of a third gender category is likely, nor even the best possible path. I think it would be far better to stop associating so many characteristics with any particular gender. Of course, this is not going to happen anytime soon and many things that come naturally to us will continue to be powerfully associated, both by us and by society, with being distinctly feminine.

You might ask why can’t a cross-dresser simply ignore society’s categorizations and live, at least in his or her own home, as a wholly integrated and natural person. I think that is the goal for most of us and over time we do progress in that direction. However, it takes time to let go of our own preconceived notions. Childhood programming runs pretty deep and we continue to be bombarded with messages that reinforce our old prejudices and fears. It’s hard to avoid the gender polarization that living in our society encourages.

Imagine yourself in a world were you are forbidden (as are all who are like you) to work on a computer. Your loving spouse thinks this is a ridiculous rule and encourages you to play on the computer in the privacy of your home. You suspect that your not the only couple like you but neither of you what to incur the wrath of society by letting others know you do it. Imagine also, that you are a busy person and, not wanting to drag your children into potential controversy, you avoid playing on the computer when they are around, so that the amount of time you get to play is very limited.

Now, during those few precious moments when you can play, do you think you’d be balanced about it? Would you have an ‘I can take it or leave it’ attitude or would you be ‘Full Metal Computer Girl’ and throw yourself wholeheartedly and unreservedly into computer play, while you can? I’m presupposing in this analogy that you really enjoy playing on computers and it seems something you’re naturally inclined to.

You see, this is not a recipe for balance. It is rather a recipe for extremes; extreme denial and extreme indulgence, and for all the inner conflict that occurs when one continually shifts from one to the other.

So, when Elysia gets a chance to be in charge, she doesn’t want to share her time with him, even now she gets so little time. It’s true that he is now more willing to share with Elysia but for most of her life that wasn’t true. For most of their life together he was always trying to keep Elysia down and sometimes even trying to kill her. Now he’s learning to love her and her to love him. It’s a good thing because they both love their wife. Now that he isn’t trying to project Elysia’s needs onto their wife, it makes it possible for them both to love her so much more. It would be nice if someday he and Elysia were so close that they’d forget there is any separation between them at all… metaphorically speaking.

[cindybarnes]

Wow, lots of deep thoughts here, since Im kinda shallow it wont take long to add my view :) :D

Although I have joked about being comfortable with two persona's, but will worry when # 3 shows up, truth is I dont change personalities when I change clothing.

I may be more likley to sit down and read a fashion mag while dressed in fem, but just as likley to be out in my garden in drab,, so for me its basicly 1 person, 2 names,, 2 wardrobes

Cindy

[Janice Ann]

Want to be all I can-- some days and most days -- a girl-- but the real life
says and dictates-- 50yrs a const- boss or pea- on--always a wanta be--
My god -- if this gender thing was so not as big as an issue- to the general public-- Mr Bush-- please- just let me do my thing-- I'll pay my taxes-- donate to charities- Just let me be me!!--- feels good to wear a bra-- feels good to take it off-- getting down off my box-- now just let me be me-
Janice Ann

[ronni]

Two? Oh, no, there are more where those came from.