About transitioning (all welcome to reply)

[Sarahgurl371]

Hi all, didn't know that there were so many reading this forum until I saw Kitty GG's thread about TS questions. Somehow I don't feel as though my opinion is valid enough to answer that thread. So I have a question or two.

I feel as though having SRS would only make me as close to a GG as science and medicine could take me. I feel as though I still would not be what I want to be, completely, a natural born female. I mean it would allow me to move thru life as a woman, but in my mind I would know that I am still somewhere inbetween a male bodied person and a female bodied person. Its almost as if I would still not be real enough. There was some discussion about this in Kitty's thread. Whether or not a TS after SRS is a woman or a transwoman / man or a transman. I don't want to be inbetween any more.

I am in the beginning stages of confronting all this, and have been diagnosed gender dysphoric, so far. What I am wondering from those who are going thru or have gone thru transition, how do you feel about this? How do you reconcile the fact that you were not born the gender that you feel you should have been and that in the end you will only be as close to the gender you feel you are as medicine can take you? I guess I have wondered that if I accept that I am female internally, shouldn't that be enough? I mean I will never look the way I wish. I cannot go back and be socialized as a female or have all those life experiences. Moving forward, if others know, they will always view me as TS. There seems that there will always be some "male" there. I guess I am just wondering how to get past the fact that I was born male, and have lived as such to the world for 34 years?

I can see benefits to this situation. But really would rather not have those benefits.

I hope no one takes offense at my remarks. I am just struggling with all these thoughts and questions and am looking for the perspective from others who have gone on, SRS or not.

Another quick one. Do hormones change this outlook? Do they assist in making the never ending thoughts go away?

Thanks

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Tammy

First of all, never feel that your opinion isn't valid, because it always is. I've found your input here to be most insightful and helpful, so no more of that kind of thinking!

I'd like to take a stab at your question, from the standpoint of someone who has gone as far as she intends to go without hormones, etc. I guess I'll never really get over the fact that I'll never be a genetic woman, a "real" woman, but it's something I've learned to accept and live with. I believe I'd still feel this way even if I went further and had SRS, I think I'd still feel genetically trapped, so to speak.

This really doesn't bother me at all anymore. It seems that since I accepted myself for who and what I am, most of the cards I was dealt with fell into place for me, and I'm happy with the hand I've got now.I suppose the possibility exists I could feel differently if I did try other options, but I just don't see that ever happening, so I don't dwell on it anymore, better to just move on.

Karen

[CharlaineCadence]

We walk a road that is jagged and frighting at times and other it is straight and narrow with a sudden turn inanother direction. I have been in transition for 6 months now fully but I started my hormones and the ways of telling people back in 2001. Then 9-11 happened and in 2002 I was sent ti iraq untill 2004. Then in 2004 I thought I didn't need to trasistion. With the loss of my secound wife I blamed myself and denight what would and can make me truely happy. I finally after many failed tries at being normal broke down. And made my mind you to worry about myself last september. now I am happy tring to find a new job has been tough and I have learned who my real friends are but you know what. I'm happy. I know I am a woman at heart traped in a mans body and am fixing that. slowly. I know I losdt out at growing up as a little girl but working on that to. Life is a stride and can be very scarry. I am happy to be free now. I may never be geniticly a woman and Will never experence certain things but you know what I dont care. I finaly fit in I am happy. and that is what matters.

I hope my rambleing helps I am not shure if it will but it is my feelings

kiss kiss
char

[~Dee~]

until I saw Kitty GG's thread about TS questions.

im glad that kittys questions has at least brought some more activity to the TS section .. which was what i had hoped it would.

as for feeling like you cant answer that thread - id say your comments would be welcome. post away.

i think we all go through something of what you are talking about .. whether it is a brief moment of thought or sometimes a long period of pondering.
i dont look at it as SRS not being able to make me a woman .. i see and accept that im female.. i identify as female .. its how i feel deep down inside me. i know that i cant suddenly just alter my body and make it 100% female .. but that doesnt bother me anymore. science has limits, but i much prefer being here and now rather than 100 years ago.

so i suppose what im trying to say is that i dont think you should be focused on how you can make your body more female .. how you can create this female persona .. you should become comfortable with whats inside you first. if you can accept yourself .. thats when things become easier.
at some point you have to choose your identity .. whether thats male, female or anything inbetween .. i dont think it matters .. its being at piece with who you are that makes the path a lot easier to walk .. from there you can look at and come to accept the limitations of transitioning.
taking things one step at a time, as it were.


Another quick one. Do hormones change this outlook? Do they assist in making the never ending thoughts go away?

ive only started my hormones a short time ago .. so i cant answer that too much .. but i think that you shouldnt rely on hormones to try to alter your thinking. you have some confusion .. and this needs to be explored and worked out .. not covered up with chemicals.

0.02

[~Kitty GG~]

YAY @ more thought provoking threads!!!

Tammi~
Please do post to my thread. You're opinons and experiences are valuable.

I'm a GG. Not transitioning. Can't say that I have experienced the feelings y'all have. But I sure can empathize.

I think that while it can be a downer to think about how you didn't get to be female right from the start.. Its also a badge of honor.

You had to pursue this. So who deserves it more?

I would never put someone who's worked so hard to attain a goal on a lower level then those who were given it free of charge.

My comments about remaining TS have to do with not giving up any parts of your self (no I don't mean srs.. LOL I mean your experiences, personality, etc) .. not that a TS person who's transitions is any less of woman (or man for F2M).

I think that accepting yourself will help you to not dwell on the things that can't be. And find more joy in the things that can be.. and the happiness of being able to be yourself.

YAY YOU!!!

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[CaptLex]

Hi all, didn't know that there were so many reading this forum until I saw Kitty GG's thread about TS questions. Somehow I don't feel as though my opinion is valid enough to answer that thread. So I have a question or two.
Yes, isn't it great that Kitty got everybody talking like this? Tammy, I would love to hear your opinions (they're as valid as anyone else's) - and I know I'm not alone.


I feel as though having SRS would only make me as close to a GG as science and medicine could take me. I feel as though I still would not be what I want to be, completely, a natural born female. . . . What I am wondering from those who are going thru or have gone thru transition, how do you feel about this? How do you reconcile the fact that you were not born the gender that you feel you should have been and that in the end you will only be as close to the gender you feel you are as medicine can take you?
Hmmm . . . not easy for me to explain my view, but I'll try. Of course, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me at this point ('cause Lord knows this can change, like so many things already have) I suppose I'm satisfied with whatever medical science can do to make me appear more like the gender I know I am inside. It's more important for me to know (to have finally figured out) what I am than to become an ideal physical specimen of my true gender. I'm just happy that I can do anything at all toward that goal, since I know this wasn't possible for those who lived centuries before us. Like I said, my feelings about this may change, but that's how I feel today.


I guess I have wondered that if I accept that I am female internally, shouldn't that be enough? I mean I will never look the way I wish. I cannot go back and be socialized as a female or have all those life experiences. Moving forward, if others know, they will always view me as TS. There seems that there will always be some "male" there. I guess I am just wondering how to get past the fact that I was born male, and have lived as such to the world for 34 years? I can see benefits to this situation. But really would rather not have those benefits.
I'm curious to know what (unwanted) benefits you see in your situation. In my case, it's exactly because I see benefits in my own situation that I am able to accept it. What I mean is, I feel that if I had not been born female I would be missing out on what lots of men miss out on - an opportunity to know and understand what women are all about (must be the frustrated sociologist in me). I feel that for a while in my life (okay a long while) I was granted admission into an exclusive club and even if my membership ends, I take with me and will always have a unique knowledge and a unique perspective among males. And I feel lucky to have it. Maybe that's not something that interests you in the reverse, and I can understand that, but it's something I'm actually happy about.

I will admit, though, that I haven't always felt this way. In fact, there are times when I have to tell myself to stop thinking like, and addressing a situation as, a female and start doing or thinking about something the way a guy would (I could give specific examples, but I hope they're not necessary). Likewise, sometimes I have to remind people that I was socialized as a female for four decades and it's going to take a while before I feel comfortable doing things differently. That's what transition is all about, though. Not just a physical change, but a change in my way of thinking and doing some things.

Okay, now I think I'm rambling. My point is, while I wish I had been born a boy from day one, because I had to find my way toward making the preferred changes, I can appreciate how the other half lives and I know those experiences will make me a better person - not a better man or woman - just human being.


I hope no one takes offense at my remarks. I am just struggling with all these thoughts and questions and am looking for the perspective from others who have gone on, SRS or not. Another quick one. Do hormones change this outlook? Do they assist in making the never ending thoughts go away?
I don't see how anyone can be offended by your honest questions. So many have struggled with these same questions and more. Talking about it can only help us, I'm sure.

As for your final question, I don't think hormones have changed my feelings about any of this, but maybe others feel differently. What has really helped me understand, accept, etc. has been therapy and support. Good luck, Tammy. Please feel free to keep asking anything, anytime. :hugs:

[Maria D]

I tried to explain my feelings in another thread recently, and don't think I did so well, so I'll try again. They are, of course, just my opinions. I refer just to MTF 'stuff', like 'female' below, reverse it for FTMs.

To decide whether SRS and transition would make you female, you need to decide what female is. You say 'I feel as though I still would not be what I want to be, completely, a natural born female.'
Physically, many females are born with malformed genitalia, and are no less female for it. They are still considered 'natural born females'. A post SRS person doesn't have to be physically any less 'female' than a born woman; the born female's been 'being it' longer, that's all.
After all, a hysterectomy doesn't stop a woman being a women, does it? A castrated man is still a man, it's a matter of self identity.
That's what I think is important; though my body was male in structure, my brain just wasn't. I wasn't born male, or for that matter as some would say, female; I was in a sense, both. People believed the body they saw and I was raised a boy, and no, you can't ever get that female upbringing once it's passed you by; that's the trouble with being TS. You not only miss the upbringing, you don't get the preparation for being the other gender. All you can do is move forward, what choice does anyone have in life? Afterall, whoever you are, it's as a result of your past; if you erase the memories you aren't you any more, so maybe take comfort in that? :)

So, 'having' a female body doesn't make you female, ask Captlex, and I know the best science can do isn't perfect, but there are many 'born females' who have bodies that are 'the best science can do' and it's good enough. They are to themselves 'female'. The difference is in your head, and I do understand how you feel. I hope that you find a way to reconcile it with yourself, so you can find happiness.

Me, I personally feel that once my body is feminised as much as possible, I will be female, not TS. Female mind + male body = TS. Female mind + female body = female. Er, probably, not including anyone who doesn't want to be tied to a gender and stuff. :)
That doesn't mean hiding my past, that I used to be TS, and used to have a male body. I have no intention of stealth, and my past is mine to hold on to. People will always know about my 'condition' though because it won't be secret, but it'll be pitched along the lines that my body was wrong and had to be corrected.

Funnily, a Big Brother contestant winner the other year was TS, and had a breakdown a year later. She complained that 'she just wanted to be seen as a woman, but everyone saw her as TS'. I suppose she wanted the benefits of stealth, which I can understand some people want, but she kind of made it hard on herself going on national television and telling everyone about being TS.

I hope that ramble of opinion helps, even if to be the person you disagree with. :)

Take care :)

[Priss]

Tammy.

Hormones will definately make you feel different, however IMO those kind of thoughts never really go away. The important thing here, is that you come out of all this feeling comfortable in your own skin. If that means staying as you are, going all the way through SRS, or finding some place comfortable to you in between then that's what you're shooting for.

For myself, I consider what's inside me to be female no matter what it looks like on the outside. I therefore have gone to science and medicine to make the outside correspond as much as possible to the inside. Although it's not the same experience as having been born female to begin with, I like who I see in the mirror each morning.

[MarieTS]

In your thread, Tammy, you mentioned Science and Medicine can't truly make you the right sex. Maybe yes, maybe no. Think about this... If for example you had been born diabetic but despite some medical problems it had never been diagnosed until adulthood, and you were now totally dependent on insulin, but that insulin and other medical procedures made it possible for you to live as normally as possible, and you felt better because of it....
Well, how could you say the treatment was not sufficient?
Although you may not have been able to live your childhood eating candy without problems, at least now you can live a better, more comfortable life.

Well, just consider hormones and SRS our insulin. Be happy there are procedures available to help those of us who need it. It makes it possible for us to be who we were meant to be. As with my diabetic ananalogy, "better late than never."

Your deep question may really be.... "what am I?"
You may have just answered it by the feelings you expressed in your question. A total and complete femme life may not be for you. Time along wth your true feelings (and reservations) can only tell.

[Sarahgurl371]

Thanks all!

Karen you are an inspiration. I think to myself...someday I will reach that level of self understanding and acceptance. Thanks

Charlaine I am happy that you are finally happy, you deserve it.

Dee, yes that is it exactly, I have to accept myself for me, whats inside. Having problems identifying it all still. Choosing my identity... is it really my choice? I mean there is an obvious answer to that question, and I suppose that "normal" people never ask themselves that question on the basis of gender, but I guess, what if I choose wrong? The costs are so great. I am just thrying to avoid being more unhappy than I am now. I have read about how people make the wrong choice for the wrong reasons and end up worse off. And I have to be right all the time. Its part of my wonderful upbringing as a strong independent man.

Kitty, "You had to pursue this. So who deserves it more?" Thanks for the laugh, I needed it tonight. I can think of a few people in my life who would disagree. Apparantly I have this thing about satisfying everyone else's needs over my own, all the time.

CaptLex..Yes, I am trying it seems to define myself from others point of view instead of my own. And being the ideal physical specimine or as close as you can to it seems important to society, which is important to living a peaceful life. Which is what I want most. Peace. I know there is all kinds of variations between individual bodies, male and female. I guess for me its the knowledge that I am different that I think will somehow make me stand out in the crowd and I have been afraid of that my whole life.

As far as unwanted benefits... Yes there is definitely an advantage to living the male role but feeling female inside. Like you said, its like you were given access to an exclusive club where you didn't belong, but got to see inside and how they are. Its just that simply because I feel the way I do, mostly the inner termoil I feel, that I do not want these benefits of somehow seeing both sides of the coin. I do feel that it makes me a better person, allowing me to put myself in someone else's shoes (literaly too!). Its just that until the point that I allow myself to move in the direction I want to go, these benefits serve as reminders of all the conflict. And its difficult to take advantage of them living the male role. Because I feel female. I guess kind of like self betrayal.

Maria, you make an absolutley valid point about "normal" people with "abnormal" bodies. "The difference is in your head, and I do understand how you feel. I hope that you find a way to reconcile it with yourself, so you can find happiness." Yes that is it exactly.


Priss, getting comfortable in my own skin is the goal. I have never been. I haven't looked at that in the whole TG/TS light for most of my life. Not until recently. I mean this body, the one I have been in for 34 years is mine, no doubt. Its not what I want to see when I look at myslef though. So am I more uncomfortable in it as it is, or as I want it to be? Meaning if it were just me, no societal pressure, I would want it they way I want it. Its just that for so long in this "normal" life I have been uncomfortable with my body, but if I make it look the way I want, female, will I be any more comfortable out in the world. I guess the problem is I am so afraid of how society will view me. I have never been comfortable in society, and although a female bady would make me happier for myself, would I be any better of in society that way.

MarieTG, you offer a great analogy. "Your deep question may really be.... "what am I?"
You may have just answered it by the feelings you expressed in your question. A total and complete femme life may not be for you. Time along wth your true feelings (and reservations) can only tell."

Good point. Have any of you had these reservations? I want to make sure I give them enough thought, I believe that the questions I am asking myself are essential to making an intellegent, well thought out decision. Oh did I mention that I am self diagnosed "Anal Retentive"? Seriously though, how much weight do you give the reservations/questions?

[tori-e]

I feel as though having SRS would only make me as close to a GG as science and medicine could take me. I feel as though I still would not be what I want to be, completely, a natural born female.


I'm sure my opinion is different from others here. But it is just my opinion. No intention of stirring things up or cause debate.

I believe that if I started transition at age 12, had all the hormones and surgery, lived from then to now (age 48) as a woman, that I would still not be completely female. I would probably be 100% passable, but I would always know. I'm sure that any blood test or ultrasound would have to be noted "born male" Then, if I decided to marry, I would feel obligated to tell my spouse that I had not always been this way. I'm sure life would be filled with these little reminders.

In reality, I've spent my whole life up to about two years ago with that feeling of "how could I become a GG". I'm sure we could all write several sci-fi novels on how to get there. You know, brain transplant, time travel, genie in a bottle, etc. Or the rest of the time, I was just feeling that life has played a dirty little trick on me and that there is no hope of any solution.

Funny thing is, that now that I'm doing something about it, there is a major shift in my life. The hopelessness and discontent is gone. There are countless people to interact with, on-line and in person, that share so many of the same feelings and experiences. The more I come out to people in my life, the more I am finding that people are willing to relate to me as female (of sorts) even when I'm presenting as male. (very strange, huh). I have the hope now that can live as female and express and interact with the world as a female. That is just an amazing feeling. Will I get clocked every two minutes? Maybe. Will there be those that discriminate against me? You bet. Will I feel like a girl? I always have. But being able to express that femininity is so liberating.

When I am finished with transition (whatever that might be) will I be female? No. Will I be able to live in the world as a female? Probably most of time.

Will I still be a transsexual? We will, or will have to, suffer a lot to reach our goals. I takes a lot of guts (don't say balls) to do this. And in society we are unique in that we will have lived life on both sides of society. How cool is that?

Will I still be a transsexual? Yes, and very proud of it!




Do hormones change this outlook? Do they assist in making the never ending thoughts go away?
Thanks

I am six months into t-blockers and about two months taking estrace. I would say that there is an ever changing level of emotions in me. I cry a lot, for everything sad and everything happy. I seem to be able to see the person now more than just the situation. But I can't honestly tell you if it is the lack of testosterone, the addition of estrogen or just the incredible emotional release of moving forward in my life and being allowed to be more feminine on a daily basis.

As for the never ending thoughts [of being a woman] going away? Not so far.


I am sincerely sorry if I've ruffled any feathers.

with love,
Tori

[CaptLex]

As far as unwanted benefits... Yes there is definitely an advantage to living the male role but feeling female inside. Like you said, its like you were given access to an exclusive club where you didn't belong, but got to see inside and how they are. Its just that simply because I feel the way I do, mostly the inner termoil I feel, that I do not want these benefits of somehow seeing both sides of the coin. I do feel that it makes me a better person, allowing me to put myself in someone else's shoes (literaly too!). Its just that until the point that I allow myself to move in the direction I want to go, these benefits serve as reminders of all the conflict. And its difficult to take advantage of them living the male role. Because I feel female. I guess kind of like self betrayal.
I think I get what you're talking about, Tammy and please correct me if I'm wrong. For a long time I rejected what I considered to be typical female things (from thoughts and points of view to certain activities) because I felt these weren't relevant to the "real" me and served as a constant reminder that I so wanted out of that world. Now that I've come to understand me better and have accepted myself (all parts of me) I no longer feel that being part of that world is a disadvantage. Does any of this ring a bell?

What helped me in this regard was talking to other transmen who shared with me that being female was no longer a part of their identities, but having lived as women would always be part of their personalities and would always inform their decisions, relationships, etc. They saw this as an advantage - for themselves and others (particularly other women).

Up until then I had been struggling with the transition question and was extremely frustrated because I felt I would never be able to decide and I was so afraid of making the wrong decision - particularly an irreversible one. But that was the "light bulb" moment I needed. I realized that I was okay (actually more than okay) with letting my life as a female be part of my personality, as long as I could look like a boy and live my life as a boy. The sense of relief following that revelation was immediate and amazing.


Have any of you had these reservations? I want to make sure I give them enough thought, I believe that the questions I am asking myself are essential to making an intellegent, well thought out decision. Oh did I mention that I am self diagnosed "Anal Retentive"? Seriously though, how much weight do you give the reservations/questions?
Questions and reservations are essential, I believe - and being anal is not a bad thing, it helps us look at everything carefully. Whatever you decide, whatever you learn about yourself and how you fit in the world, you will come to a better decision because you've looked at it from every angle and sought the answers to your every question.

Sounds cliche, I know, but the answers are inside you. People used to tell me that, and I had a hard time believing it, but it turned out to be true. I was just too impatient to find them, but it was worth the wait 'cause now I'm sure.

I'm glad you've gotten a lot of responses and points of view. Everyone here is so helpful and supportive, and I'm happy to do whatever I can too. :happy:

[~Dee~]

ive replied to this thread and deleted it a few times now .. so hopefully i can say what im trying to say before i go totally insane.

ok, here we go again. first off - reservations.
im with the Capt'n here .. i think that its important to keep questioning yourself.. i think that through seeking out answers you manage to move forward as a person and then from there you uncover lots more questions .. and so the story keeps on going on and on.
if you stop questioning yourself .. then you dont move forward, you just stagnate.
the trick is to question yourself in the proper way .. do it so that the questions are answerable and wanted .. and helpful. if you just sit there and ponder for the rest of your life, then you wont ever figure anything out, will you?
i know that ive looked a lots of really hard things to deal with and i still have my doubts on some days.
i mean, now that ive started my hormones .. i look at the lineup of pills that ive set to take each day ... and you know what - i hate that. i know that there are plenty of gg's who are taking these things .. but for me .. seeing so many, makes me feel wrong.

a few days ago before i started my hormones, i had a little while where i was really questioning if i was doing the right thing .. i felt really shakey.
the first thing that i try to do when i get like this is to think to myself that its ok to have doubts arise. its ok not to be strong 110% of the time ..
and most of all .. its ok to share them with other people.
in my past i never spoke to people .. i had a wall around me that china would be proud of.. no one ever got inside. i didnt talk to people because i didnt want to appear as weak or pathetic. but i learnt that its ok to go to people for help .. and it can really help .. and now, though i see that wall sometimes being built back up .. i try my hardest to tear the damn thing down again.
when i was weak the other day i came to my Kitty and i talked to her about it.. told her my thoughts and how things had made me feel and how i was getting frustrated and it all felt futile and like it was all too much.
she didnt need to say much to actually help me get over that .. and i moved on.
what really helped me get over it was answering a thread on here - "what would you miss if you became a girl" (or something to that effect).. after thinking about it All day, i couldnt think of one thing.

so yeah .. there are times of doubt .. where you think you might be doing something silly .. but nothing thats worth anything was ever given easily.
but in the same way that i have doubt, i also have such elation when i move ahead. when i get to another step forward its just fantastic and i see how much i want the next step.

thats why i think you would benefit from being able to talk to someone .. like a gender councellor .. someone who you can learn to be vulnerable with, someone who then has the knowledge of what to do with that vulnerability to help you clear your thoughts and make the choice thats inside you.

cause really, the hardest thing is that no matter how much you look to other people for support .. and no matter how strongly we'd love to support you .. its only you who can make that choice in the end.
only you who can actually look inside and figure it all out.

if this post doesnt make sense .. just ignore it . im done deleting it over and over again. :happy:

[tori-e]

what really helped me get over it was answering a thread on here - "what would you miss if you became a girl" (or something to that effect).. after thinking about it All day, i couldnt think of one thing.

I missed this thread. I'll have to try to find it. I can't think of anything either. Except for a degree of personal safety I suppose. But that is just fear.




cause really, the hardest thing is that no matter how much you look to other people for support .. and no matter how strongly we'd love to support you .. its only you who can make that choice in the end.
only you who can actually look inside and figure it all out.

if this post doesnt make sense .. just ignore it . im done deleting it over and over again. :happy:

It makes incredible sense to me Dee. Thanks for posting it!

Tori

[~Dee~]

Except for a degree of personal safety I suppose. But that is just fear.

see, a lot of people mentioned this in the original thread (which is fine btw .. im not knocking them) .. "fear of rape" or "fear of abuse" seemed to be common themes ...
but believe me .. being male doesnt stop these things from happening. there are really nasty people out there .. and if they have it in their heads to do something stupid that day .. i dont think gender really stops them anymore.


It makes incredible sense to me Dee. Thanks for posting it!

welcome. at least someone else understood it :happy:
maybe you can translate for all the people who are still staring at the post in total bemusement. :D

[~Kitty GG~]

I agree to a point with the questioning.

Yes its important to be honest with yourself and be sure you're transitioning for the right reasons. And so there must be some tough questions answered.

But at the same time people can get in a situation where they "can't see the forest for the trees".

Many many people are stuck in bad relationships, in destructive environments, in jobs that sap the life out of them.. the list goes on and on..

And they can't move forward because they question and question and get hung up on the difficulties of making the move.

They get defeated because it IS gonna be a hard thing to do. And life comes with no gaurentees.

And so they remain. Stuck. Unhappy. And wasting precious time.

I say to people.. imagine that you could fast forward life 10 years. Where would you WANT to be then?

Seperate the difficult jouney from the end results. Are the results worth now looking at the difficult journey? Would you be happy at some destination in between here and there?

We've gotten so soft. Imagine if our ancestors had been too afraid to revolt against injustice.. imagine if they hadn't been able to look past the difficulties of migrating.. imagine if they hadn't looked to the future and so there were no pioneers.. imagine if the first ones to undergo SRS didn't want to face the difficulties.. imagine if the doctors didn't want to put so much work into things...

Some things require more investment then I'm willing to fork out. And so they stay just fond dreams. Some things are worth all my determination and effort. And they become realities.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Sarahgurl371]

Tori-e, first off no offense taken. I am very thankful for you response, its candid, and that is what I am looking for.

I believe that if I started transition at age 12, had all the hormones and surgery, lived from then to now (age 48) as a woman, that I would still not be completely female. I would probably be 100% passable, but I would always know. I'm sure that any blood test or ultrasound would have to be noted "born male" Then, if I decided to marry, I would feel obligated to tell my spouse that I had not always been this way. I'm sure life would be filled with these little reminders.

In reality, I've spent my whole life up to about two years ago with that feeling of "how could I become a GG".

That is exactly how I feel. Wanting to be a GG. Well I can't really. I can look like one (maybe). Live as one. Interact as one. But I will always be myself. Me. And yes, if I move forward, that would make me a TS. And yes I would have to tell people about "me" if I were to get involved with them. And I will always know where I came from.

The scary thing is, and its great that your SO is OK with you, that just acknowledging these feelings has already, with almost certainty cost me a marriage of 15 years. I have a hard enough time dealing with me. So I don't blame her. But really her support could have made things so much easier. All my life I have felt weak. I have felt that I am not strong enough to make it on my own. And frankly, I was really hoping that love could conquer this all. I have doubted my every thought and "feeling" forever, so I thought that if she was OK with who I am, that maybe I could get there. I know this isn't ideal and all. Its just how it is. It seems that all my life I wanted to be normal. Obviously I knew even way back then that I wasn't. If I stay where I am, I can at least hide the fact I am different, but hiding sucks, so yes moving forward does take tons of courage. But I will most certainlly not be normal. So is the looking in the mirror and liking what you see worth the risk?

"I am six months into t-blockers and about two months taking estrace. I would say that there is an ever changing level of emotions in me. I cry a lot, for everything sad and everything happy. I seem to be able to see the person now more than just the situation. But I can't honestly tell you if it is the lack of testosterone, the addition of estrogen or just the incredible emotional release of moving forward in my life and being allowed to be more feminine on a daily basis."

See that feeling things, and not being able to cry about them is what bothers me. I know that guys can cry, but I don't know, I can't as one. It seems that I am always supressing feelings of caring and tenderness when dealing with certain situations. All this hiding emotions. I do not feel like the other guys I know. It all registers on another level for me, and its instinctive to nurture, love, care, but that is not acceptable as a guy it seems. So I get your repsonse about the emotions comming out because you are free to express yourself as female.

I read in one of the Benjamin Standards that a contra-indicator is that transitioning because of preconceived ideas that the desired gender has it better in some way, or easier, etc. And I can definitley see a benefit that women have in being able to feel and show their emotions, not having to suppress them.

[Sarahgurl371]

I think I get what you're talking about, Tammy and please correct me if I'm wrong. For a long time I rejected what I considered to be typical female things (from thoughts and points of view to certain activities) because I felt these weren't relevant to the "real" me and served as a constant reminder that I so wanted out of that world. Now that I've come to understand me better and have accepted myself (all parts of me) I no longer feel that being part of that world is a disadvantage. Does any of this ring a bell?

What helped me in this regard was talking to other transmen who shared with me that being female was no longer a part of their identities, but having lived as women would always be part of their personalities and would always inform their decisions, relationships, etc. They saw this as an advantage - for themselves and others (particularly other women).

Up until then I had been struggling with the transition question and was extremely frustrated because I felt I would never be able to decide and I was so afraid of making the wrong decision - particularly an irreversible one. But that was the "light bulb" moment I needed. I realized that I was okay (actually more than okay) with letting my life as a female be part of my personality, as long as I could look like a boy and live my life as a boy. The sense of relief following that revelation was immediate and amazing.


Questions and reservations are essential, I believe - and being anal is not a bad thing, it helps us look at everything carefully. Whatever you decide, whatever you learn about yourself and how you fit in the world, you will come to a better decision because you've looked at it from every angle and sought the answers to your every question.

Sounds cliche, I know, but the answers are inside you. People used to tell me that, and I had a hard time believing it, but it turned out to be true. I was just too impatient to find them, but it was worth the wait 'cause now I'm sure.

I'm glad you've gotten a lot of responses and points of view. Everyone here is so helpful and supportive, and I'm happy to do whatever I can too. :happy:

CaptLex

Yes, I think we are on the same page, but its hard to articulate. Obviously I am not there yet when it comes to talking to others. This forum was hard enough to put it all out there for. I have just recently started to have "real time" conversations and I guess that is my next move forward. I realise there is so much to gain from talking to others. It seems that I have read so much, but that they aren't writing about all my questions, so I have to go seek the answers out, and its just another sacry step in this all.

I was just too impatient to find them, but it was worth the wait 'cause now I'm sure.

Yes I am very impatient about this all and in general in life. My mind is always moving a thousand miles an hour. It seems that I have this sense that time is passing by, and that I have not really lived yet. I do not want to wake up at 65 and say OMG! Its almost over and I haven't even dealt with this all yet and put it behind me, let alone, having lost the opportunity to live thus far and not wanting to waste any more time.

[Sarahgurl371]

ive replied to this thread and deleted it a few times now .. so hopefully i can say what im trying to say before i go totally insane.:

Dee, I know that feeling for sure!:heehee:



the trick is to question yourself in the proper way .. do it so that the questions are answerable and wanted .. and helpful. if you just sit there and ponder for the rest of your life, then you wont ever figure anything out, will you?.:

That seems to be where I have been for quite a while now. Actually I have always agonized over decisions to be made. I wonder if this all ties in together some how. I have read about all the other problems that people with these issues have that do not seem to be directly related to their gender issues, but that after they accept and move forward they find that their other issues seem to diminish or disappear. Oh, I hope that is true.



a few days ago before i started my hormones, i had a little while where i was really questioning if i was doing the right thing .. i felt really shakey.
the first thing that i try to do when i get like this is to think to myself that its ok to have doubts arise. its ok not to be strong 110% of the time ..
and most of all .. its ok to share them with other people.
in my past i never spoke to people .. i had a wall around me that china would be proud of.. no one ever got inside. i didnt talk to people because i didnt want to appear as weak or pathetic. but i learnt that its ok to go to people for help .. and it can really help .. and now, though i see that wall sometimes being built back up .. i try my hardest to tear the damn thing down again.
when i was weak the other day i came to my Kitty and i talked to her about it.. told her my thoughts and how things had made me feel and how i was getting frustrated and it all felt futile and like it was all too much.
she didnt need to say much to actually help me get over that .. and i moved on.:

Thanks for sharing that you do have some doubt at times. It seem so often that I have read that people are "certain", "absolutley sure". And I do have doubts with each new step. It seems that as a guy, I have always held myself up to to others for comparisson and that I continue to do that especially with the gender issues, because as I said earlier, I have always doubted myself. A good healthy dose of self esteem is in order.

As for the wall, yeah, I totally get that. 100%!



what really helped me get over it was answering a thread on here - "what would you miss if you became a girl" (or something to that effect).. after thinking about it All day, i couldnt think of one thing..:

Never really thought too much about it in this aspect. I truly feel that women can do anything that men can do. I guess being a dad would be one, but that isn't in the cards either. Its a hormonal thing. And I will never be a mother, so the loss of having a family of my own is a big one for me. Its kind of like a dream that will never materialize, and that according to my therapist is something I have to grieve yet.



thats why i think you would benefit from being able to talk to someone .. like a gender councellor .. someone who you can learn to be vulnerable with, someone who then has the knowledge of what to do with that vulnerability to help you clear your thoughts and make the choice thats inside you.:

I have been in therapy for about 3 months with a gender specialist. And vunerability is something that I definitley feel, especailly about all this. And how life might be moving forward. Its one of those benefits of having this all. I can see the other side of things, and vulnerability is something that I think women have had to deal with in their lives everyday. I am not saying they are weak, but they are perceived as such. But the vulnerability of it all, putting yourself out there, hoping not to be rejected, yes I definitely feel that. That is part of the wall that is still up.

[Sarahgurl371]

I agree to a point with the questioning.

Yes its important to be honest with yourself and be sure you're transitioning for the right reasons. And so there must be some tough questions answered.

But at the same time people can get in a situation where they "can't see the forest for the trees".

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

I am absolutley there at times. All the never ending questions about other questions. I seriously need some valium or something.

[Sarahgurl371]

Thank you all again for your responses.

I am learning not only a bit more about myself, but how to respond with quotes and stuff!

I have read so many times about balancing the fear of moving forward with each step to the reward of completing that step. Spending time at that plateau and then climbing to another one. I guess that I moving forward, but it seems like a snails pace. It really has to do with the fear of being out about it. Or being found out before I am ready for that. And I am really at the stage where the risks involve actual physical circumstances, no longer am I dealing with this all only in my head. And for so many years, the thing has been a "fantasy" in my head. I always thought that someday I would "get there" but never really seemed to deliberately move things. Now I am deliberately moving. Its all very un nerving though, uncertain of the outcome of each step, agonizing over each new situation that arises, should I or shouldn't I? Pro vs, con. Then having to confront the fear that has been created in my mind over this all and what will happen if anyone should learn my secret. It seems that the fear has ruled my life. Not only in this aspect. That is why I truly repsect those who have apted to move forward to become themselves, despite all the possible negative outcomes.

[Ms. Donna]

You not only miss the upbringing, you don't get the preparation for being the other gender. All you can do is move forward, what choice does anyone have in life? Afterall, whoever you are, it's as a result of your past; if you erase the memories you aren't you any more, so maybe take comfort in that?
Our experiences - good or bad - are what make us who we are. And as you point out, to erase them is to erase ourselves.

I've often thought that my life would have been much easier had I been born female and raised as a girl - but would it have been better? I don't know. My life experiences have shaped my view of the world in a way where I see and appreciate the great diversity that is humankind. My world is not one of black & white - or even shades of grey: it is one of color - colors which so many people in the world are unable (or unwilling) to see.

Sure, we missed out on growing up as girls, but ours is a POV in which neither 'men' nor 'women' can truly share.



Your deep question may really be.... "what am I?" You may have just answered it by the feelings you expressed in your question. A total and complete femme life may not be for you. Time alone with your true feelings (and reservations) can only tell.
This is a hard one to accept. When all this came to a head for me, I was sure - convinced - that the only thing that would 'work' for me was to be a 'woman' - to transition - and leave all else behind. For me, this was in part because I still only saw the world as having 'men' and 'women' and those where bodied as male and female respectively. Once I groked that there were other possibilities - that is all wasn't so black & white - I was able to re-evaluate these feelings and put them into better context. I wound up deciding that to 'transition' would not be the right choice. As you mention - a "total and complete femme life" was not for me. It just took me about two years to sort that out.



Up until then I had been struggling with the transition question and was extremely frustrated because I felt I would never be able to decide and I was so afraid of making the wrong decision - particularly an irreversible one. But that was the "light bulb" moment I needed. I realized that I was okay (actually more than okay) with letting my life as a female be part of my personality, as long as I could look like a boy and live my life as a boy. The sense of relief following that revelation was immediate and amazing.
If I were to make a list, there are many 'guy' traits / interests / etc. which I have. I don't deny them as they are all a part of me. But, do they in and of themselves make me a 'man'? No. Just as the 'girl' interests I have do not make me a 'woman'.

This ties back to Maria's observations about our pasts. To deny and flat out reject any part of ourselves is to reject ourselves completely. We are who we are - warts and all. We need to come to terms with that and accept that. This is not to imply that we shouldn't look to change things if we want to.



the trick is to question yourself in the proper way .. do it so that the questions are answerable and wanted .. and helpful. if you just sit there and ponder for the rest of your life, then you wont ever figure anything out, will you?
I think this is a big problem we all have. We get stuck in this negative feedback loop - now there's a guy's description :) - and wind up staying there until it becomes unbearable: then we act. As you point out, our questions need to be answerable. Pondering the 'why' question will get you nowhere. The same with dwelling on the 'if only...' thoughts. We are here, now and we are the way we are; accept that as a given and go on from there.


cause really, the hardest thing is that no matter how much you look to other people for support .. and no matter how strongly we'd love to support you .. its only you who can make that choice in the end. only you who can actually look inside and figure it all out.
We all want the magic pill. We all want someone - anyone - to tell us what to do to make this go away - to make it all better. We want this because being TG is hard - and life shouldn't be this hard. We shouldn't have to wake up and wonder "Who am I? What am I? ... Why am I?" We shouldn't have to look at ourselves in the mirror and not recognize the person looking back. And we should never have had to ask ourselves "What's the point? Why should I even bother? ... If I were to disappear now, would anyone even notice?"

Yes, our life is hard and out decisions equally so. Much like Sisyphus, we continue on in spite of it all - contstantly pushing our rock back up the hill. After all, what other choice do we have?

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[~Dee~]

Tammy~

its good that you are talking with someone. and believe me i know about snails pace .. ive been bumped around and lost in the system so much its just not funny anymore.
the snails pace can be one of the most frustrating things to have to deal with.. but the way i see your situation, i still see steps forward .. so, instead of thinking about the pace .. why not see that you are finally making progress ... and some progress each little bit is still a hell of a lot better than sitting in your room and just feeling crappy and getting nowhere.

you say that youve read lots .. sound like everything under the sun to me :happy: .. and thats a great start .. but be careful that you arent substituting your own answers for whats in books.
you still need to reflect on how that sits with you .. look at all the info that you can, dont get me wrong .. but if you just read it and never reflect on how it matters to you .. then you dont really get the full benefit of the text.

but all in all, it sounds to be that you are in that starting stage .. getting to know yourself and come to terms with what you feel .. its ok to be confused at this point. its not like anyone has ever prepared us to have to deal with something like this .. especially so much emotion all at once .. wanting to be a girl .. not having a family .. maybe losing people you care about .. fearing the outside world ... these are all things that people in our position have to face and deal with .. i dont think anyone will ever tell you that it was easy for them .. but it for sure was needed.
well, thats a lot! .. most people run from their true selves .. most people have to handle only a couple big earth shattering events in their whole lives .. and here you are trying to settle several all at once ..
its no mean feat.
relax into it .. once you get moving, you will start to move faster .. theres no point in rushing .. all good things require a good foundation to be built first .. and this is no different.
be proud. you are taking the steps that are needed and meeting your demons head on. you should be proud of that. i know i am .. and i am proud for all the people who do this. its not easy.


After all, what other choice do we have?

there is a statistic that always haunts me .. 1/3 TS commit suicide before they are 30 years of age. im not 30 yet.
i believe some people believe that we do have a choice .. they dont have the strength or ability.. or maybe support .. to face their demons and they end up taking the easy option out.
thats why i think all the people who are facing their gender issues head on should be commended .. thats why ive never understood the 'holier than thou' attitude that ive seen .. im proud of this, my community .. all the brothers and sisters who are facing their fears and their problems without taking that easy option out.
i think people, no matter if they are transitioning or if they arent ever going to, so long as they have faced it with honesty and come out the other end alive ... i think thats something to celebrate.

im proud to be TS.
im proud that im alive still.

*rant mode off*

[CaptLex]

Yes I am very impatient about this all and in general in life. My mind is always moving a thousand miles an hour. It seems that I have this sense that time is passing by, and that I have not really lived yet. I do not want to wake up at 65 and say OMG! Its almost over and I haven't even dealt with this all yet and put it behind me, let alone, having lost the opportunity to live thus far and not wanting to waste any more time.
I can totally relate to this, Tammy. In fact, my best friend kept telling me to slow down because he felt I had become obsessed with learning as much as possible on the subject, and it was all I talked about and all I involved myself with. I told him I felt that had much to catch up on, that I felt I should have started the whole questioning and educating process much earlier, and that it felt like time was going to run out on me.

Now there are days when I feel somewhat impatient about how long the whole transitioning process will take (physically more than mentally), but at least I'm not racing to find the answer to the big question, because I finally have.


To deny and flat out reject any part of ourselves is to reject ourselves completely. We are who we are - warts and all. We need to come to terms with that and accept that. This is not to imply that we shouldn't look to change things if we want to.
I agree, Donna. Just in case my point wasn't clear, though, this is not exactly what I was doing. I don't deny or reject any part that is really me, but I was rejecting any part that I felt I "should" be just by virtue of having been born female. I'm cool with all that is really me, regardless of whether any of it is considered typically male, female or otherwise. I hope that makes sense.

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Dee,

I suspect that you have misinterpreted my reply.

By 'what other choice do we have', I'm referring to pushing on and pursuing life in spite of the difficulties. To not simply give up. To reject the 'absurdity' (the clash of reason against reality) of our situation and seek to live life to the fullest.

Rather than post it all here, please read pages 88, 89, 93 & 94 of my manuscript (http://cydathria.com/files/misc/nowhere.pdf) where I discuss the Myth of Sisyphus and it's relevance to our existance - and a bunch of other stuff as well. :)

I too am quite proud of all of us who are able to make our lives work despite this - especially those who, as you put it, "are facing their gender issues head on".


Sorry if I came across wrongly before.


Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Sarahgurl371]

Tammy~

its good that you are talking with someone. and believe me i know about snails pace .. ive been bumped around and lost in the system so much its just not funny anymore.
the snails pace can be one of the most frustrating things to have to deal with.. but the way i see your situation, i still see steps forward .. so, instead of thinking about the pace .. why not see that you are finally making progress ... and some progress each little bit is still a hell of a lot better than sitting in your room and just feeling crappy and getting nowhere.

you say that youve read lots .. sound like everything under the sun to me :happy: .. and thats a great start .. but be careful that you arent substituting your own answers for whats in books.
you still need to reflect on how that sits with you .. look at all the info that you can, dont get me wrong .. but if you just read it and never reflect on how it matters to you .. then you dont really get the full benefit of the text.

but all in all, it sounds to be that you are in that starting stage .. getting to know yourself and come to terms with what you feel .. its ok to be confused at this point. its not like anyone has ever prepared us to have to deal with something like this .. especially so much emotion all at once .. wanting to be a girl .. not having a family .. maybe losing people you care about .. fearing the outside world ... these are all things that people in our position have to face and deal with .. i dont think anyone will ever tell you that it was easy for them .. but it for sure was needed.
well, thats a lot! .. most people run from their true selves .. most people have to handle only a couple big earth shattering events in their whole lives .. and here you are trying to settle several all at once ..
its no mean feat.
relax into it .. once you get moving, you will start to move faster .. theres no point in rushing .. all good things require a good foundation to be built first .. and this is no different.
be proud. you are taking the steps that are needed and meeting your demons head on. you should be proud of that. i know i am .. and i am proud for all the people who do this. its not easy.



there is a statistic that always haunts me .. 1/3 TS commit suicide before they are 30 years of age. im not 30 yet.
i believe some people believe that we do have a choice .. they dont have the strength or ability.. or maybe support .. to face their demons and they end up taking the easy option out.
thats why i think all the people who are facing their gender issues head on should be commended .. thats why ive never understood the 'holier than thou' attitude that ive seen .. im proud of this, my community .. all the brothers and sisters who are facing their fears and their problems without taking that easy option out.
i think people, no matter if they are transitioning or if they arent ever going to, so long as they have faced it with honesty and come out the other end alive ... i think thats something to celebrate.

im proud to be TS.
im proud that im alive still.

*rant mode off*


Dee, thanks for the interesting feedback.

I am starting to see that I have pushed some boundaries. I have made some moves. I need to start taking some credit for that for myself. I have pushed forward. Funny thing really, how most people I know would not find that commendable.

As far as reading tons, and not digesting it. I have pondered on this many times. I have asked myself the question...."Am I taking what this person says as truth?" Or am I simply looking at different perspectives, different life experiences? I am concerned about this. And all I can say about it is that because I am questioning it, I must be dealing with it appropriately. I do not want to be blinded by anything.

As far as meeting demons head on, yes its difficult. But I hate that phrase. It sounds sinister. Sometimes I feel that there is no depth to me. I have all these notions about right and wrong, good and evil, but upon examination, I find that they appeat to be very shallow.

The satistics on suicide are very scary. I have seen this up close and personal many times in a previous career. It is real, it is forever. I have never really felt "it" until recently. In the midst of uncovering and dealing with all this over the past two years. I can see how some people do it. I think a saving grace here for me is my past experiences surrounding suicides. Thankfully there is a part of my brain that kicks in at low points and reminds me that tomorrow is another day, why not wait it out and see what it brings?

And I do agree that the courage it takes to look at ourselves this intensely is tremendous. Most people would say we are weak because of it, or that it exists in us, or how we deal with it. But they obviously don't feel it inside, for if they did, they would no there is nothing weak about it.

[Sarahgurl371]

Have any of you also notice the impatience? Not only surrounding the gender issues, but in general in your lives.

One thing I have noticed in my reading is how many of us seem to have very similar thoughts, and feelings about us. There are certainlly differences as well, which I think are attributed to the varying degrees of all this as well as life experience. But the commonality of many feelings and thoughts is mind boggling. I only wish I had the courage to ask people I know who are not gender challenged about these things. I would be interested to know if there is a difference, either how we perceive the same kind of thoughts, or if they have them at all?

[~Dee~]

Ms Donna~
actually, i dont think you came across wrong at all.
but in the terms of 'options' there is certainly an option for just giving up. it might seem like a pretty extreme option for most .. but i know that ive brushed that option several times in my youth.
there are a lot of hard things that people are expected to have to face.. and then there are many trials if you wish to follow through with the path of transitioning.
ive never liked someone else controlling my life .. and now i find myself infront of a pshrink trying to justify my existance so that he will sign a little piece of paper .. i no longer have power over my life .. its been shifted to someone else. THAT i find troubling .. i know the reasons for it, and im not knocking the system .. so please please please people, dont come back to me saying that i am .. cause i might just do something you'll regret.
all im saying is that there are lots of trials in this pathway .. and there are more than a few chances for things to go weird, awry and leave ones comfort zone for one way or another. indeed, ive found that my very definitions as who i am are constantly challenged.. and not always in a good way. for those that find themselves here, it can be very hard to deal with .. and even harder to try to get out from under. so i know how people feel .. i do see why they give up.. and i do believe it is still an option ... as the numbers show, its more of an option than anyone would like to see.

i think that one of the best things about forums, chat rooms and the like, similar to these ... is thatthey can give an avenue where people can sympathise to your situation .. no matter what path you have chosen to follow, im pretty sure that there is someone else here that has chosen the same thing .. it might be through open support or discussion .. but even the feeling of not being alone anymore. i always hope that if there are people out there who are finding things just too overwhelming, that they would stand up and say something .. if not in a post .. then pm'ing people. everyone needs a shoulder sometimes .. no one can be 100% strong for every single day. ive kind of learnt that over the course of my transition so far .. and the amount of times that ive cried on Kittys' shoulder about something that has happened is countless ..

Tammy~

i cant say that ive ever looked for similarities between people .. but i will for sure look out now.
as for impatience .. i was never the most patient person .. ever.
not more so now .. mainly because i know that its a long time coming .. and finally i feel like im actually alive and able to do something.
i want to move forward because i know that i can now .. i know that im strong enough to meet the problems ..(maybe stumble a little) but then still move through them.
i dont like outside people telling me to slow down .. or to take my time .. if you are so certain of something and have suddenly figured out your life .. why on earth would you want to slow down?
pff .. :rolleyes: :D

as for demons .. ive always found the term very fitting.
there are lots of things in my past that i wouldnt think to use any other term for. :evil:

[tori-e]

Hi Tammy,

Sorry I'm always jumping in here randomly. Hopefully not in the middle of a fight, errr, debate again!



That is exactly how I feel. Wanting to be a GG. Well I can't really. I can look like one (maybe). Live as one. Interact as one. But I will always be myself. Me. And yes, if I move forward, that would make me a TS. And yes I would have to tell people about "me" if I were to get involved with them. And I will always know where I came from.


Maybe you can't be a GG, but it doesn't mean that you are not a woman. At least from an identity standpoint. I have a letter from my doctor that says "...and is considered female from a medical and psychological perspective..." Getting that was one of those great moments for me.

Also, what's wrong with being you? Others may reject you for being TS. That's their problem and a lost opportunity for them to grow as a person and get to know another beautiful human being. But male or female you will always be you. Every person on this planet is an individual, with a soul and their own inner beauty. Coming out to me has brought me to life in a way.

I have a wonderful friend (MTF) that is very spiritual. She views being TS as being a special gift to test us in this life. The question is, do we have the courage, to rise to this challenge?




The scary thing is, and its great that your SO is OK with you, that just acknowledging these feelings has already, with almost certainty cost me a marriage of 15 years. I have a hard enough time dealing with me. So I don't blame her. But really her support could have made things so much easier. All my life I have felt weak. I have felt that I am not strong enough to make it on my own. And frankly, I was really hoping that love could conquer this all. I have doubted my every thought and "feeling" forever, so I thought that if she was OK with who I am, that maybe I could get there. I know this isn't ideal and all. Its just how it is. It seems that all my life I wanted to be normal. Obviously I knew even way back then that I wasn't. If I stay where I am, I can at least hide the fact I am different, but hiding sucks, so yes moving forward does take tons of courage. But I will most certainlly not be normal. So is the looking in the mirror and liking what you see worth the risk?


Just to be normal. If that means being a guy, then no. I can't do that anymore. Looking in the mirror? When I look in the mirror and see a girl, it feels so good. I can't tell how well I pass, but that's not the point. When all the "gear" comes off, I see a guy and that makes me want to barf! So you won't be normal. I'm certainly not normal. What is normal anyway?

On a support level, I know Brenda loves me and always will. However, she still does not know if she can support me past certain points in the TS journey. So my life isn't perfect. Having support is fantastic and I am very lucky to be building support in many areas. If not with your wife, there are lost of other places to get support and build confidence. I know one woman that befriended a couple of lesbians. They helped her learn to dress and apply makeup. They also went out for dinner with her en-femme. There is this forum, which is filled with amazing people, such as yourself. I joined a local TG social club. That has been fantastic. Out of thirty members, all great people and lots of fun, I met one special lady there. We email and get together for coffee. I have a local peer support group that meets every week. Plus (touch wood) to-date, every person I've come out to has been wonderfully supportive.

If you don't get support from your wife, you will find it in other places. How long has she known?

with love,
Tori

[tori-e]

...a few days ago before i started my hormones...


Am I ever slow!

Congratulations Dee!

Tori

[Vivian Best]

I try to be a realist in my thoughts and actions. The sun comes up in the east and goes down in the west. I can't change that even if I wanted to! The moon rotates around the earth. I can't change that even if I wanted to! You were born with XY chromosomes and you can't change that to XX chromosomes even if you wanted to! There are certain things in life we cannot change if our life depended on it. We have to accept those things!

However, our emotions, feelings, acceptance and outlook CAN be changed. At some point we realize we can live with things we can't change. If you feel you are female and want to change the outward appearance to match the inside feelings, to me you are female regardless of what the XY chromosomes say!

Vivian:rose2:

[Trissia]

...and perhaps i did not understand everything...but i would like to say this: the human society needs names and referals to identify everything...and also, the weight of the past, all things we got in mind makes us think that classifying is a normal behaviour...but i am sure we are all as one like our finger-prints...we are tall or small or black or white or we have a big nose or a small one, some are poor some are wealthy...i mean that when we realize we are not really guys, it does not mean we are an under-kind of people...i use to remember that sentence, i've read somewhere...it said about this; "in the men's dreams, the perfect girl is a girl with a penis..."
i have not enough vocabulary to explain well...i mean that we may be both, a bit more than a man, and a bit more than a woman...and i often think that we are finally lucky to be able to feel like a woman, knowing how a man feels too...
we are more than many genuine people, able to spread kindness around us...we must be proud of ourselves....and then, dressed or not, is a secondary choice in my opinion...love do not depends on clothing...
I give you my opinion, but i do not intend to convince of course...i just mean that i feel oversuppplied with life having a girl and a guy inside...i just let them live in peace...when some friend said bad things about me i usually replied "you're right man, i have a girl inside"...then they had no more to add...and one day my wife said: "honey you have really long eye-lashes...why wouldn't you use my mascara?"...in a world, when you can not find an issue, the reason may be that there is finally no problem?:happy:

[michelle19845]

i tend to think about what all it will involve for costs and how much you get for what you pay for?for all the money it'll take to get hrt and srs and whatever else,will it make that much of a difference?one thing is there are some who don't transition and stay with their sig-other and some that break up in relationships due to it.some don't have to go all the way.
my biggest worry is if i went down that route of transition,what kind of side effects am i looking at? long term ones? how much will it cost?what are the odds of me affording it? it seems so impossible at this moment.i just can't trust the american fda/ftc either.i've had problems with other health issues in my past and fear that hrt could possibly trigger problems in those things and make it impossible to do.
but what if i can't ever get a relationship with someone cause of who i am? that's a big one.we all need to have a special someone wit us to share feelings and worries and know there will be someone for us regardless what happens.it's such a tough decision and then to afford things if the decision is made. what lives we have?



michelle19845

[Trissia]

...of course each of us needs a special one to be involved...it is one more reason to work hard about feeling balanced in the mind...i mean the physical look is few regarding to personality...some gorgeous people have no taste and some ugly attract like magnets....

[~Kitty GG~]

i tend to think about what all it will involve for costs and how much you get for what you pay for?for all the money it'll take to get hrt and srs and whatever else,will it make that much of a difference?one thing is there are some who don't transition and stay with their sig-other and some that break up in relationships due to it.some don't have to go all the way.

The costs differ depending on where you are and what "transition" means to you. If you have a look around for someone who's in your area of the world and transitioned or is transitioning, you can get some good info on costs and maybe even good input on doctors in the area.


my biggest worry is if i went down that route of transition,what kind of side effects am i looking at? long term ones? how much will it cost?what are the odds of me affording it? it seems so impossible at this moment.i just can't trust the american fda/ftc either.i've had problems with other health issues in my past and fear that hrt could possibly trigger problems in those things and make it impossible to do.

The only way to get info on the side effects and how hrt would affect you with your particular medical history is to see a doctor. you can ask all your questions and be evaluated without having any obligation to go further. The doctors are there to provide a service not to make judgements or push you into anything you aren't ready for. They've seen every sort of medical problem and so won't be shocked or squeamish about this. Its just another day at the office for them.


but what if i can't ever get a relationship with someone cause of who i am? that's a big one.we all need to have a special someone wit us to share feelings and worries and know there will be someone for us regardless what happens.it's such a tough decision and then to afford things if the decision is made. what lives we have?
michelle19845

You are "who you are" regardless of what steps you take to transition. I personally think its much easier to be someone's partner if you already accept yourself. If you go into a relationship not knowing who you are or what you need.. then you are apt to choose someone not suited to who you really are. It often leads people to try to live up to the expectations of someone else. Hiding forever who they are and living an unhappy life for the sake of not being alone. That special someone for you will probably want to have the real you, the happy you.. not the hiding confused and unhappy you.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Sarahgurl371]

You are "who you are" regardless of what steps you take to transition. I personally think its much easier to be someone's partner if you already accept yourself. If you go into a relationship not knowing who you are or what you need.. then you are apt to choose someone not suited to who you really are. It often leads people to try to live up to the expectations of someone else. Hiding forever who they are and living an unhappy life for the sake of not being alone. That special someone for you will probably want to have the real you, the happy you.. not the hiding confused and unhappy you.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Kitty,

You said that perfectly!

"For the sake of not being alone." I understand this statement. I think that many of us, who are just a wee bit different do. Its a terrible thing to feel. But lets face it, it is a huge concern for us. Ending up all alone. Just because I am me.

Just last night at my therapist's, I commented that I see my future, whether I move forward or stay where I am at, as being by myself. That is not what I want, but I am concerned that again, because I am me, that is what will become. Of course, this is mine to change or bring to reality. But it is a huge fear. Its the reason that we / I hide. Its the reason that we / I lie by omission. I feel unworthy of love because I am me. That is a terrible place to be. A place I am trying to move away from.

My therapist responded that ideally I would be able to make friends in the community. Friends who I would help and receive help from in return. Friends, in every sense of the word. Now all I have to do is get out there, TRUST, and make it happen. The TRUSTING part is hard. One set back, rejection, can kill a hundred positives it seems.

Its just about finding that inner strength now. The strength to just be me and live my life how I want to live. The strength to be alone. Then who knows???

[Sarahgurl371]

I try to be a realist in my thoughts and actions. The sun comes up in the east and goes down in the west. I can't change that even if I wanted to! The moon rotates around the earth. I can't change that even if I wanted to! You were born with XY chromosomes and you can't change that to XX chromosomes even if you wanted to! There are certain things in life we cannot change if our life depended on it. We have to accept those things!

However, our emotions, feelings, acceptance and outlook CAN be changed. At some point we realize we can live with things we can't change. If you feel you are female and want to change the outward appearance to match the inside feelings, to me you are female regardless of what the XY chromosomes say!

Vivian:rose2:


Vivian,

I had never thought of life in these terms. Very interesting point!

[Ms. Donna]

actually, i dont think you came across wrong at all.
but in the terms of 'options' there is certainly an option for just giving up. it might seem like a pretty extreme option for most .. but i know that ive brushed that option several times in my youth.
More a 'last resort' than 'an option' IMO. I was at that place for a while and realized that there had to be a better solution. But I do recognize that for some, it will ultimately - and sadly - be their final option.


ive never liked someone else controlling my life .. and now i find myself infront of a pshrink trying to justify my existance so that he will sign a little piece of paper .. i no longer have power over my life .. its been shifted to someone else. THAT i find troubling .. i know the reasons for it, and im not knocking the system .. so please please please people, dont come back to me saying that i am .. cause i might just do something you'll regret.
Whether you are or aren't, the system could use a bit of knocking now and then. While ostensibly for one's own good, it is a discriminatory system nonetheless. The 'good' it purports to do could be as easily addressed in other, less 'gate-keeper' like ways. You can read about one possibility called Extended Informed Consent (http://cydathria.com/ms_donna/transequal/exinfcon.html).


i think that one of the best things about forums, chat rooms and the like, similar to these ... is that they can give an avenue where people can sympathise to your situation .. no matter what path you have chosen to follow, im pretty sure that there is someone else here that has chosen the same thing
When I first stumbled upon Usenet and the CD forums, it was like stepping into another world - one where people 'like me' were the norm - one where we all 'got' each other without having to try and explain ourselves. It was the first time in my life I felt a read sense of belonging. To a very large extent, we only have each other to get ourselves through this, and forums like this are one of the best resources available.

If only I had access to this in the 1980's... :(

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[~Kitty GG~]

Thanx for the consent thingy Donna.. I've saved it to have a read later.

Tammy, its not just people facing the issue you're facing who are settling for anyone to just "not be alone". You'll find that there's a huge number of couples who are unhappy but continue on cuz its better then being alone. So many are so desperate to not be alone that they hook up with the first person who gives them any attention. Its epidemic!

How much better would it be to know yourself and what you need in life? To be able to offer a potential life partner the real deal. And to have realistic and achievable expectations for them!!!

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[pattyme]

I am always late ... sorry. Here are my thoughts hope they help.

One of things I rarely hear mentioned about uncertainty is the past. If I have only just realized I can't be a real girl well imagine how long it took me to figure out I can't be a real guy. How hard did you try to fit in? Where does that put me? It's not a sound philosophical arguement but being real is being what I am not what I can't be (change of subject on the word real makes it an invalid arguement but compelling). Anyway, if all I can be is myself then my choice is to be myself and happy. If being happy means living as a girl so be it. I know living as a boy does not make me happy - this is all I know with certainty. My choices are stay as I am - a valid choice, or change also a valid choice. My decision will be made based on where I am most happy. I will only know if the choice is right once I try until then its just a guess and as we all know guessing is based on uncertainty. In sum, there is no answer to uncertainty except trying.

Love this place
Patty
__________________________________________
To be or not to be may not be the right question.