What defines a crossdresser? (discrimination)

[Mz_Jenny]

Hi girls,
I don't crossdress fulltime but i'm very open with it and my family and friends know about it. I wear a womens jaket which is quite femmine looking. So anyway lastnight I went to Taxi Club in Sydney's Oxford Street which is a well known place for transexuals/TG people. I havn't had the courage to go out crossdressed but I always wear my jaket. So, am I a crossdresser if I'm wearing that? this may seem silly but who defines this. Lastnight I was rejected when I went to walk into the female toliets. I said that it was discrimination but they can say you cant use it so I didn't. The other TG/Crossdressers can use the female toliets, why cant I? I was in a womens jaket and my hair was parted like a females. I said I was crossdressing look at my jaket. Just becasue i'm not all that passable how can they do that. Anyway, i'd like to hear other's comments on this. I'm loosing a lot of respect for that club not to mention most CD's/TG being very rude when i just want to talk with them. Do I have to crossdress just to be friends with another crossdresser/TG.

Jen

[Melora]

SOOOO... The question is..ARE YOU PASSIBALE OR NOT, IS THAT The issue?..I know that I am not at this time, But I am striving and dreaming to become so at this time! The Restroom question has always given me problems and FEAR to say the least.

[~Dee~]

i dont know how it is in sydney .. but i know that over here the club/restraunt/cafe/etc... owner/management does have the right to stop you from using their facilities.
it is not a legal issue .. so if the police were to be called, they would just roll their eyes and leave the "scene of the crime"

but i do know that many places dont like the idea of people just walking into whichever toilet they see fit to use.

personally i always see if there is a unisex type toilet around, like handicapped or such .. and use those .. that way you dont have any problems. but if you are trying to go into the female toilets and you arent fully presenting as female, then i think i can understand why they wont let you in. afterall, just wearing a girly jacket doesnt shout TG to people. so you just end up looking like some kind of perve who thinks they have the best plan to sneak into the ladies toilets.

i think its best that you keep in mind that the management could be trying to simply protect their female patrons, rather than discriminating against you.
if you dont look the part for them, then you might worry some other people using their restroom. maybe?

as for making friends with tg people .. keep in mind that lots of the people who o go out and about are used to being hassled every so often .. so you need to basically prove that you arent a creep .. then you might stand a better chance of making friends.

0.02

[Kate Simmons]

Yeesh, sounds like these people are a bunch of a******s. I'm glad the club I go to has unisex toilets--no issues (except the guys always leave the seat up!). Ericka

[Kimberley]

Is it discrimination? Or management just trying to keep the peace in their establishment.

As for other patrons, many of us have experienced that between CD's and many TS's or Gay/Lesbians. There is some sort of line there that I never could understand. Some pubs and clientele are very accepting, others are not.

Maybe next time you can wear pink trainers to go with your jacket, that should convince them. Sheesh. Just a little sarcasm...

Kimberley.

[Amelie]

In your case, the club defined what a cd is and isn't. It is their club and if these are their rules then you either listen to them or you leave and don't go to that club again.

Some memebrs of this site would like to post pics that the forum doesn't like, so these cds are unable to post these pics, these are the rules that this forum has just like your club has rules.

If enough people do not like these rules, then they can be changed, but many members here at the forum like these rules and I am guessing that the members of your club also like the rules of the club, so in both cases the rules will be in place. Find a different place that allows you to use a womens bathroom. Go to a straight upper class establishment and let's see if they allow you to use the ladies room.

I have tried to enter night spots dressed as a punk but I was refused entry by the doormen. These clubs had rules and the rules didn't allow me to even enter the club, so I do not go to clubs that have these types of rules.
Do like I did, find a place that allows you to be who you want.

[Sandra]

but if you are trying to go into the female toilets and you arent fully presenting as female, then i think i can understand why they wont let you in. afterall, just wearing a girly jacket doesnt shout TG to people.

Agree with Dee here, if you want to be able to use the female loos then you have to present as one, you don't have to be full made up but at least dress the part.

[ReginaK]

Do I have to crossdress just to be friends with another crossdresser/TG.
Jen

Ms. Donna explained it best in this post:
http://crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=457980&postcount=41

Basically, there is an unspoken hierarchy in the transgender world, especially among the MtF crowd. Not all people are like that and most people don't consciously do it. But it happens. It's kinda like highschool all over again.

[Kate Simmons]

BTW Jen, You do not have to cross dress to be friends, especially with me. Ericka

[Marcia-B]

I have had a similar experience.I wantedto go out about a month after throwing my clothes out.I left it pretty late and needed to buy some clothes. I knew of a shop which sold cheap womens clothes and was open late.My train was delayed, the bus was caught in a traffic jam and the shop closed.I managed to buy a womens vest top from Planet Hollywood.I wasn't able to buy any shoes or skirts or trousers as it was only a souvenir shop.I managed to buy some makeup in Boots at Picadilly Circus which opens until midnight.I needed a bag so I bought a magazine with a free bag.
I wanted to go out and make do with what I had.So I wore my mens Jacket,womens top and mens black jeans and mens shoes.I brushed my hair in a womens style and put my makeup on.
I also was not allowed in the ladies toilets in a tranny club.I had been in there before in a dress no problem.
I found it a bit awkward as I didnt really fit in in either toilet.I had a good time though and the men were treating me like a girl and I heard someone referring to me as she.I doubt if they could tell the difference between the mens and womens clothes anyway.I had a picture of myself once in my Yahoo profile of me completely dressed in mens clothes.Almost identical to what I wore to the club and a guy said "You look lovely in your profile pic so neat and chic".He also called me a trim little sweetie and I wasn't really cross dressed.But I was certainly en-femme.
I suppose if you wear any male attire you will not be allowed in.Such clubs have these people in the toilets to make sure no hanky panky goes on in the cubicles.If you are wearing mainly male attire and put on a womens jacket and comb your hair a bit but are not fully dressed as a woman you may be regarded with suspicion.They might see you as an admirer who has just borrowed that jacket to go in the loos for a bit of hanky panky.
Which toilets do the females to males go to.Girls wear mens clothes as well.Can we not dress as a woman in mens clothes?It would be cool to be convincing even in mens clothes.

[Priss]

Ok. Here's the way I see it.

This is a very touchy subject, due to the fact that restrooms are still at this time divided into mens and ladies rooms... While we tend to believe that women will be more understanding about things, they aren't necessarily. In other words, women would like to feel comfortable that when they walk into the ladies room, that they aren't going to be accosted by a man trying to pick up chicks. For a man to be in there, it's in invasion of a womens private space. That raises a whole lot of issues that you may not be aware of...

Now, as a crossdresser, as long as you're discrete you may use the ladies room. You were probably denied at this club however, because you were not enfemme. Merely wearing a womens jacket and having your hair parted a specific way, may not keep you from looking like a man in a womens private space. This is just common sense, and not discrimination. Once you find your courage to go there enfemme, Iam sure you'll have no problems at all.
:love: