TS but not transitioning

[Lisa Scott]

Hi all,
Just wondered how many of those in the group have been formally diagnosed as Transsexual, but are not intending to transition. This could be for any reason, be it they are now happy in their life and dont need to transition, or that they have commitments and cant at this time in life, or maybe just dont feel they could handle the potential hurdles this would present...afterall its not an easy path as anyone who has done it will confirm...

Its a thought I have had a few times now,.... There is alot of talk on this and other forums about transition and hormones and SRS, BUT what about those that arent going this route.

Perhaps its just me, but all the medical profession (at least in the UK) seems to be providing a service (even if it is a poor one) aimed at those who are transitioning, but there is no treatment I am aware of for those diagnosed who dont choose that path.

With such a high rate of suicides within those diagnosed, why isnt there more treatment/ help and support for those not transitioning.

Should there be a treatment plan for these people...

Lisa x

[Maria D]

I consider that I was TS before I transitioned, so, if I hadn't done so I'd still be TS. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to, definitely, it's every individual's life. :)
Regarding the rate of suicide, I have no idea the statistics. Could it be because of 'lack of ability or help to transition' rather than treatment for non transitioning? I'm interested in what treatment would be helpful to someone not transitioning, since most treatment I can think of involves, well, feminisation for the MTF and vice versa for FTMs, and of course psychiatric help, which should always be the first step and can help to decide whether you want to transition or not, rather than provide help for those choosing not to.

The thing I keep thinking about is, if councilling help was provided for non transitioners, that would be very similar to anti-TS efforts to 'cure' TS people, and 'nons' might be held up as examples that it IS possible for us to 'just not transition if you put your mind to it'. Does that make sense? That's not to say, of course, that said help might be beneficial to them, and therefore also a good thing. I'm finding that hard to reconcile as an idea...

Other than that, perhaps non transitioners here could post what would help them, so we have a better understanding of everyone's needs.

Oh, and regarding 'diagnosis', do people really need to be diagnosed like they didn't know in the first place? It's not quite the same as a kidney stone. 'I'm afraid it's bad news Mr. Smith... or should I say Mrs. Smith'. 'Oh no, it's not that transgenderism is it? There's a nasty bout at work'. I don't even like skirts'.
What I mean is, though there are those who go to GICs etc and get 'diagnosed' but don't transition, they probably go with some essence of having to, but there are probably many more who never go and get diagnosed and simply live their lives as best they can. They are no less TS to me, if that makes sense. :)

Take care.

[Kimberley]

Wow, a loaded thread Lisa.

I have taken a lot of flack for my decision to not transition, surprisingly from other TS's who are going ahead.

I was "officially" diagnosed as TS in 1990 when I hit that wall. I was 38 yrs old, married (still am) with 2 children in their teens. On top of that I had everything I owned invested in a new business that was struggling under the weight of severe recession and some really dumb government economic policies. It had to be one of the worst periods of my life yet it proved to be pivotal in many respects.

While it was at this time I was diagnosed, like most I knew what I was throughout my life. I think we all do.

I needed some heavy counselling and was lucky enough to find a gender counsellor through the local Gay/Lesbian organization. She helped me to put things in perspective so I could make the decisions I needed to. Without her I would have tossed everything and made a bigger mess of my life than I was already living. I'm not sure I would be here today if it hadnt been for her. On the flip side of that coin, my decisions to not transition only magnified the life long chronic major depression I was (and still am) "suffering". So it was a double edged sword.

My primary reason for not transitioning was family. They were and still are the most important things in my life; always will be. I couldnt bear the thought of losing them. I knew then as I do now that to come out publically would have cut me off from my parents, grandparents, siblings. It would have also ended my marriage (which still might happen) and cost me my children. This would have been unbearable for me. They were and still remain the most important people in my life. Would they accept it today? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to say but I have to believe they would.

I worked in a very male, very macho environment. I would have lost the few friends I had there and it would have definitely cost me my clients. In short I would have been totally alone and bankrupt.

Would any of them have come back? Maybe, but that is a chance I was unwilling to take. Those were my main reasons for not transitioning. For me they were valid reasons and not excuses as others have charged.

Today I live closeted even though my wife knows. However her stated position is that if I choose "that life" in any way she is gone along with everything I worked for over the last 3 1/2 decades. Not much wiggle room there is there?

I suffer from chronic major depression with attached anxiety. I have made several suicide attempts and thankfully survived. Today I am still in counselling and on meds everyday twice a day. I am for the most part unable to handle the stress of a full time job despite my oozing resume. Hell, I will lose it if the lawnmower doesnt start. I do work part time doing photography and I also compose music. Neither pays the bills but it does keep my creative mind active and occupied. Without them god only knows where I would be.

As I said, I am still closeted but the stress and anxiety from that are far less than from the alternatives. If I were younger and single it might be a different story.

I do not ask for sympathy or pity, I have enough of that on my own thanks. I put my life out there on display for others, to help them see my mistakes and maybe avoid them in their own lives. That is what keeps me here.

The changes are always there, and the needs resurface without provocation and usually end up in another depressive episode. Sometimes it approaches the bottom, other times it is mild (my current state).

How do I survive? I wish I knew. What will the future hold? More of the same. I have lived with it this long so I am sure I can manage one way or another. Do I recommend it? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Each of us has to make our own decisions of what is right for us based on our own individual circumstances. For me living as a TG is hell but it is living and in my mind better than the alternatives.

If I had the support of an understanding spouse, it would be different, of that I am positive.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[GypsyKaren]

I was "diagnosed" quite some time ago, by more than one doc. I do hate that word, as much as I'm fed up with doctors. They give you five minutes of their time, throw some pills at you, then show you the door and the cash register.

I decided not to do hormones or SRS for various reasons, but I do live full time as a woman. I'm very happy with that, so I see no reason to mess with success. We all must follow our own path, and this is mine.

Karen

[Rachel_740]

Perhaps its just me, but all the medical profession (at least in the UK) seems to be providing a service (even if it is a poor one) aimed at those who are transitioning, but there is no treatment I am aware of for those diagnosed who dont choose that path.

Hi Lisa,

I hear what you're saying about a service for non-op's and I have never heard of any active support groups. However, I know that my therapist would be happy to have non-op's as patients, as she has pre-op's and post-op's (albeit the later may only be for a limited period).

I only know a limited amount about the private sector, as I never explored the NHS routes.

I know that isn't of much direct help to you, as you're in the Midlands and I'm in the South West, but it may be that there are gender therapists up your way that would take on a non-op.

Rach
xxx

[michelle19845]

i would definitely like ti do something to permanently remove my hair on my face,neck,chest and feet.i hesitate about hormones,i hate the way life is going and i don't have much for inner family (mom,bro,dad,sis),i do have outer family and am closest to them,they're more there for me than parents are.i tend to move far way from here where there is a low population.it is a good idea since my inner family will pry be gone in the next 10 years anyway cause they can't take care of themselves right.i'm single and no kids,don't ever want any and have no care for my "meat and 2 veggies".time is the biggest thing for me,i'm taking small steps and not jumping the gun.my next step is a p-doc (gender).

[~Kitty GG~]

Perhaps its just me, but all the medical profession (at least in the UK) seems to be providing a service (even if it is a poor one) aimed at those who are transitioning, but there is no treatment I am aware of for those diagnosed who don't choose that path.

With such a high rate of suicides within those diagnosed, why isn't there more treatment/ help and support for those not transitioning.

Should there be a treatment plan for these people...

Lisa x

What sort of treatment plan are thinking of?

I understand that TSs and anyone who is having issues with life's problems can benefit from counselling. But I'm fuzzy on what else would be helpful for them.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[joanlynn28]

I am afraid that I hit that wall where I am at the point where I am going to have to transition to save myself. I read somewhere on another website about fighting the urges of transitioning most of your life and praying that it is not going to happen, but evetually in your forties you get overcome by your emotions that transitioning is the only choice left. I have come to the point of my life where I have hit that wall myself. I am 45 years old in a failling marraige because of my TG'd issues. I thought that getting married would curb these thoughts, thinking that I only dressed up to make up for the lack of a girlfriend. But I continued to have these thoughts all thoughout my marraige, they never really subsided, they were always there. Now that I am out of the closet so to speak, I vow never to return and hide in that closet again. All I can say is that I am going to take transitioning slowly and carefully, my friends tell me that the ones who rush into it too quickly are the ones who end up killing themselves and I have no intentions of falling victim to that. I am willing to give up everything to transition, my home, wife, family, etc. Whatever I need to do to survive. For my to not transition is not an option.

[CharlaineCadence]

All jokeing aside I have to say that I have met women from both sides of the coin recently thouse who chose to transtion and thouse who have chose not to. Both types have found ways to hive their lives happly. though it is trut that the ones in transtion are alot more comfertable with themselves at times. just as thouse who are not transitioning. For example I a transitioning transexual was so scared yesterday after a very bad experence with a police officer that I feared reporting the fact that I was robbed. To the point that I went home and changed first. I know it was stupid but I have not finished my name change and other leagle aspects. And I was afraid they would not take me serously(sp). I felt so scared when I shouldn't have but on the same token I know a non trasitioning woman who dresses every day of her life and has had many issues but has know problems at all when it some to feeling comfertable with dealing with the police. why not because of who she is or how she was dressed but because she feels comfertable with herself as herself. where I am still learning to be comfertable with who I truely am. I care what people think about me She does not. it is that simple. So it is not a matter of fully transitioning or what not but more of how you feel about yourself.

kiss kiss
char

[sheiligh]

I was "diagnosed" quite some time ago, by more than one doc. I do hate that word, as much as I'm fed up with doctors. They give you five minutes of their time, throw some pills at you, then show you the door and the cash register.

I decided not to do hormones or SRS for various reasons, but I do live full time as a woman. I'm very happy with that, so I see no reason to mess with success. We all must follow our own path, and this is mine.

Karen
hi karen!!!!!!! you hit right on the head about hating doctors, i stay away fromthem as much as i can ! only thing you messed up on is when you siad they show you thedoor and cashregister, it's the other way around girl!!!!! they show you the CASHREGISTER, THEN IF YOU PAY, THEN THEY SHOW YOU THE DOOR!!!!!!!!!!!!! any way have a gopod day love sheiligh

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Lisa,

I have to say that the current crop of threads here has given some good points to ponder.

I have never been 'diagnosed' as a transsexual - my therapist never even suggested it. She's really very good about not pushing a diagnosis. I suppose I could ask her outright just to get her opinion (I've started seeing her again after an eight year break.) However, I don't think it would make a difference to me.

As I stated in Kitty's thread (see my replies starting here (http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=456338#post456338) ), I have never identified as a transsexual, but see myself very much on the cusp and depending on the direction of the wind, I could fall either way. In many ways, I feel I have a lot in common with transsexuals - the non-ops expecially. And in many ways I'm quite different. I guess that for me, transsexual is a medical diagnosis and I hesitate to hang a diagnosis on myself. Nonetheless, from a operational POV, I can see myself as transsexual to some extent - I share many of the same feelings and issues.

Regardless, I have to live in the world as one who is 'differnetly gendered' and find a comfortable way to do so. To that end, I present in a rather mixed / androgenous manner with my wardrobe consisting almost entirely of women's clothing - but I don't see myself as having 'transitioned' as having 'become' the person I was meant to be (see my thread Becoming... Not Transitioning (http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32347)).

I suppose the lack of a 'treatment plan' for the non-transitioning transgender individual is because one does not transition in so many different ways. How do you counsel someone on how not to do something? Other than emotional and moral support from friends, family and peers - and possibly psychological support for dealing with depression and other 'issues', this is a very individual choice, rooted in one's personal situation.

To me, 'transitioning' completely almost seems easier: you have a clear goal, you establish a punch list things to address, you set (as best a possible) a timeline and you follow it. No, I do not think it is easy - not by any streatch of the imagination. But to feel as we do and make the conscious decision to not address it as fully as we might like... You are basically guaranteeing yourself a harder life - by choice. Again, how is one 'advised' or counseled on how to do this.

To me, it is a huge game of trial and error. Try this, try that - see what helps, what doesn't - as I have in my sig "One recognizes one's course by discovering the paths that stray from it." To transition is to have choosen a path, to not transition is to continually wander down blind allys in search of balance.

And that's what it all comes down to: balance. My entire goal has been to strike a workable balance between what I need to be me, and everything else in my life. For me, transitioning would have been an easy solution - and ultimately the wrong one. As a result, my life is a continual balancing act: what is the treatment for that? :(

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Lisa Scott]

Hi girls,
Thanks for the replies to this thread, I knew it was going to prevoke some interesting debate, and I appreciate your open and candid responces.

I guess as regard treatment for non transitioning TS's I was thinking along the lines of simialr treatment to transitioning TS's but without hormones or surgery. Afterall arent non transitioners still likely to suffer depression, anxiety, and social disability as a result of the condition.

Isnt it reasonable to think that group therapy sessions (like for Alchoholic Anon, where you can talk with others like you), or one on one counselling (to discuss how to handle the depression and how to get the most from your life given your chosen path), would be of as much help to those not transitioning as to those that are.

Im not suggesting anyone can be "fixed", or that a door be opened to allow NHS practitioners to say things like "see its possible not to transition and be OK"....but what about the people who for their own reasons cannot transition, and are left a life of despair, with little or no help at all. Their problems dont go away because they dont transition, infact it seems for some quite the opposite, that the problems can become overwhelming.

Someone recently told me that "life isnt about getting dealt a good hand, its about learning to play a bad hand well", ...maybe its about time the non transitioners were seen as a part ot the overall TS picture, and treated in a way that allowed them to play their cards the best way they could...

Lisa x

[purple_spider GG]

Hi Lisa
My partner is exactly as you have described, non transitioning TS although she has not had diagnosis. Louise has a friend who is looking at the route of transitioning, we were both surprised when we heard but are supporting her decision and wish her good luck. It got round to me pondering the process that someone goes through to reach that decision; how does someone come to that conclusion? What do they consider and how do they make decisions? I am always fascinated by people’s thought processes especially around major life altering decisions. My ex transitioned but we never really discussed her thought processes, I never really knew what led her to that decision because she kept secrets from me anyway.

I asked Louise what had led her to consider living full time but to not go down the route of transitioning? Louise said that she was put off by the prospect of taking hormones because of the health risks associated with them; risk such as blood clots, strokes, heart attacks and other problems associated with taking high doses of hormones. There were other side effects she did not particularly relish such as the prospect of her personality changing with the effects of the hormones and becoming someone she wasn’t. Having no desire to get rid of her penis she also feels she would be just as happy with a vagina; it is almost like she is completely ambivalent at times. Louise did say that it is mostly the side effects of hormones that are the main reason she is not transitioning; if the hormones were not risky then she would be considering this route more strongly.

Louise is hoping to get breast implants and she has changed her name legally to Louise now. She lives full time, and with the exception of family, everyone calls her Louise and addresses her as female. This along with the low sex drive could easily identify her in the therapy room as TS.

I think that based on her comments last night that she is not feeling strongly enough about it and the fact that she has a general ambivelance over her genitals speaks for itself really. She is probably closer to being transsexual but not quite firmly in that camp. She may very well be transsexual and just not transitioning. Louise identifies as feminine and prefers to be female in her presentation but somehow does not share the same identification that traditional transsexuals feel. I suppose that really she has found her place in the transgender spectrum it is just about getting that sense of balance in her mind. I have already promised her that no matter what she decides to do I am going to stay with her because I love her.

[~Kitty GG~]

Hi girls,
I guess as regard treatment for non transitioning TS's I was thinking along the lines of simialr treatment to transitioning TS's but without hormones or surgery. Afterall arent non transitioners still likely to suffer depression, anxiety, and social disability as a result of the condition.

Isnt it reasonable to think that group therapy sessions (like for Alchoholic Anon, where you can talk with others like you), or one on one counselling (to discuss how to handle the depression and how to get the most from your life given your chosen path), would be of as much help to those not transitioning as to those that are.

Lisa x

Those who are transitioning, no matter what degree or path they choose.. Don't have any more of a 'treatment plan' then anyone else as far as I can see.

Anyone with any life issues can and should find a good therapist.

I'm not sure that an Alchoholics Anon type setting would work. Because there are no clear cut boundries for TS's and you'd need a gzillion dif groups for each point on the non-op spectrem. Group therapy might be good.. but I'd imagine that a therapist who works in the gender area would be happy to put together such a group if someone suggested it.

If someone wants hormones and/or surgery they must get the go ahead from a pshrink.. twice. You have to see an endo. And you have to have a GP to monitor your health while on the hormones.

Otherwise they have to rely on a good therapist if they want more than just "permission".. and on the support of family, friends, people on forums etc.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Maria D]

She may very well be transsexual and just not transitioning.
What is it that you understand transition to mean? I've always understood it to mean, well, transitioning to living as the opposite gender, probably full time, which your Louise is already doing. I thought hormones and surgery were helpful ways of facilitating that change by helping someone look more like their chosen gender, rather than transition itself. IE, In my eyes, Your Louise has transitioned.

Am I wrong in this understanding, or even further, does transition mean different things for different people?

Your partner is lucky to have you :)

Oh, and my personality didn't change with hormones, any more than it didn't change when I hit puberty at 12. I've always been evil ;)

Take care :)

[Maria D]

Lisa, are you basically sugesting some sort of 'coping' mechanism for non transitioning people? If so, I think it would probably be of benefit to some, as long as they were not closeted enough to be able to 'risk being seen' at such meetings. Also forums like this help, I hope, to allow feelings out a bit, and to help in the ways you sugest. :)

[Kimberley]

Lisa,
I agree that the so-called support mechanisms for surgically or hormonally non transitioning TS dont formally exist as such. I am not sure that they would even offer that much support because each of us is so different.

In my view what is critical to survival is close support, preferrably an SO who fully understands what this is about. They will understand the depression that is inevitable and be better equipped to help. The problem is that it can be extremely difficult on both partners but I believe that the basis of love in the relationship will hold it together, that and a strong committment.

It isnt fair to our spouses to put them through this. They didnt ask for it any more than we did. The difference is that we made a conscious choice based on values and priorities while fully recognizing the consequences of making those choices.

As I said earlier, life has been difficult as a result of my choices. It would have been easier to just go for it but that would have created another set of problems without solving the first set, at least in my case. To choose to not to transition is certainly not cowardly or the easy way out; if the truth be known it is just the opposite. We choose to live and deny ourselves freedom for that part of us that screams for release. I believe this is a fact missed by many people.

To address the issue of external support outside of the relationship, I have found this website to be a lifesaver. I have found people (Donna among them) who share the same approach either as a TS or as the spouse of one of us and can understand what it is to live this way.

The one thing we all have in common though is that we all have learned to accept our decisions and live with consquences, compensate for that denial in one way or another, and last but not least, seek the company of someone who truly understands what it is like.

Would group therapy (support) work? I am not so sure. I would think that there would be too many "issues" and competitive personalities to allow it to function effectively. One on one counselling I think should be a necessity. This is sometimes hard on the spouse but our spouses are usually too close or involved in the problems to look at it objectively. Quite frankly, we need an independant voice to kick our tush once in a while. Besides, a counsellor is always a safe place for us.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Ms. Donna]

The problem is that it can be extremely difficult on both partners but I believe that the basis of love in the relationship will hold it together, that and a strong committment.
This is what I'm banking on. Despite all crap, my wife and I are still together. And when we ask each other "why?", the reason always comes down to "because we love each other." It sounds sappy, but it is what it is.


It isn't fair to our spouses to put them through this. They didnt ask for it any more than we did. The difference is that we made a conscious choice based on values and priorities while fully recognizing the consequences of making those choices.
Another point I continually make. They have a right to feel angry, hurt or whatever. As twisted as it can sound, we need to support this - maybe not encourage it - but support it. They are a part of the relationship as well with their own desires and expectations. It is not only unfair, it's unreasonable to expect them to simply 'accept' whatever it is we want to do. We need to be able to stand in their shoes for a bit and see things from their perspective.


To choose to not to transition is certainly not cowardly or the easy way out; if the truth be known it is just the opposite. We choose to live and deny ourselves freedom for that part of us that screams for release. I believe this is a fact missed by many people.
True - especially by pre/post TS individuals: no, not all, but many to most. Had I transitioned to where I was living 'as a woman', I might have had a greater degree of comfort in my life - more of a sense of peace about myself. It too would have been a compromise, but it would have been the lesser of the two evils as it were.

However, to have transitioned would have meant loosing my family: my wife and children. This was a price I was not willing to pay. When things were bad between us, I could have pushes a few emotional buttons and gotten myself cut loose and kicked to the curb: it would have been all to easy to do and I often wonder if, in the long run, it wouldn't have been the right thing to do - for the both of us. Now eight years on, I can no longer even consider this as option: not only from a financial and practical standpoint, but especially from an emotional standpoint. In for a penny, in for a pound... At this point, I'm all in: I fold and I loose it all.


To address the issue of external support outside of the relationship, I have found this website to be a lifesaver. I have found people (Donna among them) who share the same approach either as a TS or as the spouse of one of us and can understand what it is to live this way.

The one thing we all have in common though is that we all have learned to accept our decisions and live with consquences, compensate for that denial in one way or another, and last but not least, seek the company of someone who truly understands what it is like.
Us folk on the left side of the curve need to stick together as best as we can. Kimberley and I seem to have more that a few passing things in common. It always helps when there is someone else who 'gets it' without a whole bunch of explanation.


Would group therapy (support) work? I am not so sure. I would think that there would be too many "issues" and competitive personalities to allow it to function effectively. One on one counselling I think should be a necessity. This is sometimes hard on the spouse but our spouses are usually too close or involved in the problems to look at it objectively. Quite frankly, we need an independant voice to kick our tush once in a while. Besides, a counsellor is always a safe place for us.
I tend to agree with regards to the group support ideal. I have been to several 'workshops' and have some mixed feelings. In theory they're good - in practice they're OK. The competing personalities thing is very much a reality. Once (when I was starting to sort all of this out) after explaining my take on all of this and how I saw myself, this TS girl about half my age proceeded to tell me:
I didn't know what I was talking about
I was in denial about my 'true' self
I was a coward for not 'facing up to the truth'
I was suffering from 'testosterone poising'

One of the few times I ever wanted to bitch-slap the crap out of someone. :Angry3: The group facilitator did step in and explain that there was no one 'right' explanation - but by that time, I had pretty much shut down with regards to wanting to participate. My first face to face encounter with intolerance from people who were supposedly my 'peers' - and it wouldn't be the last.

But I digress...

I agree vis counselling and our spouses. Their's is (understandably) a very subjective view of things and sometimes we need 'perspective' from a 'disinterested' third party. It is for this reason that I have recently started seeing my therapist again - after an eight year hiatus. She is quite good and has never pushed a diagnosis on me. In fact, my wife and I did a few couples sessions with her way back when.

My problem now: my wife wants to know what we talk about and she's not happy when I don't want to go into details. Of course, if I felt like going into details, I wouldn't need to talk with my therapist, would I. :(

Unfortunately, there is no way to put a positive spin on this. Such is our lot in life and we deal with it as best as we can. As I see it, the descision isn't so much whether to transition or not: the decision is what do you need to do to make it through life and be reasonably happy. Transitioning is but one of part of that overall plan.

Love & Stuff,
Donna