to all those ladies afraid of being "read"

[MsJanessa]

Hi Darlings--I've noticed a lot of posts lately about how to avoid being read etc---too much make up verses too little---too tall , etc.---I rather think that most of you are missing the point--and I'll tell my experience for yesterday to illustrate----I spent the afternoon with my friend Lila---after dressing and hanging togather for awhile we decided to go shopping--the largest store in Newport Maine (a small New Engleand town of about 5000 people) was the local super Walmart. I was wearing tight fitting girly type jeans, a dark auburn wig, a gold satin tank top and tan sandals with 2 inch heels. Along with makeup(note to you girls outthere--no such thing as too much makeup for us T-Girls---just tone down the eyeshadow and liner and use a paler lipstick for day time) Lila was a little more brazen, wearing a denim mini skirt---we got a few looks(you know the ones I mean) at walmart but most of the people didn't even notice(or if they did, they expressed no suprise). I brought a pair of sunglasses, had a nice conversation with the check out clerk and then went to the local rite aid for makeup where I had another nice conversation with the clerk---male this time--- who, I suspect, would have been putty in My hands if I had been interested. I had to go to Portland after that and check in at a local hotel where I usually stay---rather than change back to drab I went down en femme(for the first time) and checked in that way--the front desk clerk couldnt have been nicer---I would like to think that I passed completely but at 5'11' with 2" heels I doubt that I fooled everybody---the point is that the less you worry about "passing" and the more you concentrate on looking good and being proud of who and what you are, the more likly you are to be accepted as a man, woman or a T-Girl---the whole point is to be able to relax and be who we are without other people's judgements---ps---as I 've said elsewhere in this forum, some of the most passable T-Girls I've ment are also some of the plainest--so homely that few people notice them once, let alone look at them twice---For Me, I would rather be a beautiful Transgendered Lady and have everybody know it than an ugly duckling who always passes. Just My two cents worthl

[JulieFL]

I would agree completely.

Last Wednesday I finally got my Wife to come out and have dinner with me while I was dressed. I was so wound up worrying about Her being uncomfortable or deciding to back out on our Dinner Date that I completly forgot about being nervous myself. I enjoyed the evening immensely.

JulieFL

[CharlaineCadence]

In my time fulltime I have learned alot. Their are days where I am read and days I go with noone noticing. I have begun to see a pattern to when I look better and that is when I am confertable with myself. I mean no worrieing, no nothing just being myself. The days that I am read I find it is when I worry about being read and or just doupt myself. It does get easier with time just learn to relax and it will all come with time

kiss kiss
char

ps learn to accept yourself and you will never fail.

[Marla S]

the point is that the less you worry about "passing" and the more you concentrate on looking good and being proud of who and what you are, the more likly you are to be accepted as a man, woman or a T-Girl---the whole point is to be able to relax ...
I'd say this is the philosophers stone.
I'd like to add that we should try harder to have a tastefull appearence, that is appropriate for the situation and we should avoid fashion mistakes, instead of trying not to be read. (Most of us will be read anyway, independent how hard we try)
Similar to woman trying to work in "man's" job's, you just have to be better than the average to be accepted on "foreign territory". (Better doesn't mean more sexy, or stylish. I think it's more tastefull and perfect)
Every fashion mistake will contribute to "approve" the biases.

[JoannaDees]

In my time fulltime I have learned alot. Their are days where I am read and days I go with noone noticing. I have begun to see a pattern to when I look better and that is when I am confertable with myself. I mean no worrieing, no nothing just being myself. The days that I am read I find it is when I worry about being read and or just doupt myself. It does get easier with time just learn to relax and it will all come with time

kiss kiss
char

ps learn to accept yourself and you will never fail.

I think that the times you are worrying, are the times you are looking. Wondering, checking out everybody and reading any and all looks and gestures. I'm sure they are there all the time, but when you are solid and aceepting of yourself they don't mean anything.

Janelle does make a superior point. Go out as you, expect to be read or not, rejoice in being out as the being you wish to be. And, when you portray yourself as happy and oblivious as everybody else as described by Char (in the gender sense) you will be surprised at the lack of attention. Beware teen girls though. So childish and mean sometimes.

[tekla west]

The big bugaboo in being a Tgirrl dresser is the notion of Passing. Now most Tgirrls seem to regard passing as some sort of Holy Grail, but I often find myself wondering about this idea and these notions. I know the idea and feeling that they can not "pass" keeps lots of Tgirrls at home.

Aside from this maybe there is a different way of looking at the entire process of going out, and in doing that, one needs to rethink passing in several ways. I spent an afternoon and night out in New York with a Tgirrl who prided herself on passing, but I noticed that she never met anyone's eyes directly, (considered a standard feminine trait by the way, so many actually practice it) so in effect, she did not really know.

Just walking down the street dressed and not having anyone call you on it, or point it out, or laugh at you is not passing per say, and its a lot more common in big cities than you might think. Matter of fact, it is the norm anymore. Like I said before, I just think most people don't care much one way or the other, at least to the point of saying anything about it, much less doing anything about it. Sure people might notice, those that are paying attention at least, but most people will not say or do anything. And I think that is really the best of all possible worlds for us Tgirrls.

When someone tells me how well they pass several thoughts come to mind. First off, I'm not even all that sure just what the term means. How it differs from the older concept of "being read?" Are you passing if you are still being read?

Does passing just mean getting away with it? I'm not at all sure. To begin with, you would have to demonstrate to me that everyone (anyone) even noticed you in the first place. Just because the people you strolled by were; a) self-absorbed, b) daydreaming, c) out of it on drugs, d) just ignorant, e) on their cell phone/fax/internet to their stock broker, f) or just constantly inattentive as a general condition of their lives, that does not mean in and of itself that you got away with anything. Of course, it could be that when people feel that they are "passing" they are only encountering good old American toleration of the sort that "Its your misfortune and none of my own." Or perhaps they were just getting a solid dose of the classic big city attitude of - "Big Deal. Who Cares?" Myself, in my more world weary moments, simply ascribe it to the legendary ennui that so characterizes our own age here at the fin de cycle? Do all these cases constitute passing? Do any of them?

[JoannaDees]

Very well said Tekla. I think "passing gold" is just being accepted. It matters not whether you think I'm female. I'm not. But do you think I'm .... I want to say beautiful ... but it's more I'm acceptable and not outrageously contrary. Of course, there are those that will think "OMG satan", but those we can dismiss entirely.

[Karen Edmonton]

I can't agree more ! If you're close to looking female , and act like you belong , usually you will not have much trouble going where you like and doing what you like ! I've been dressing for about 20 yrs and it hasn't failed me yet !

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i have a couple distinct thoughts on this.(and i think about it alot!!)

i like the idea of "passing gold" as being accepted... many of us dont care about this issue and that's great, but i seem to care alot as part of my "thing"

i have many many times dressed and wandered towards the hotel or mall or store and then just freaked out and ran back to the car...other times i strolled in..each time because there was no body around...i'm 6'2 and not shy about the heels so i am quite certain that i dont pass..BUT I SO MUCH WANT TO PASS!!!!!! so i try to be as presentable and "real" as possible and put great effort into my mannerisms and walk and my look..

i tend to walk into the mall lets say and go deeper in until im basically trapped in the mall...now am i the only one who finds this all a big part of the thrill??? its almost like the opposite of being afraid of not passing..the thing is...when i'm too nervous and jumpy i have seen people look at me and their eyes bug out or they express some shock....other times i have gotten a great big smile (in a nice way)...only once was i actively teased (by 5 teenage guys..yuchh) ...other times i've been addressed as "miss" so every time that happens its like hitting a perfect drive on the 18th hole after a crappy 17 rounds of golf!!!

but guess what i didnt drop dead...nothing bad happened..in fact OVERALL i loved it every time despite some hiccups...i'm still shy to actually buy something and interact but maybe in the future..so i'm saying to everybody i think on balance, if we try to look good and natural subject to our limits, then people will MOSTLY be cool with things

the other thing i wanted to mention that i think about passing is the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual..i have seen some very MANLY transexual girls and they live every day all day like that..i have great respect for that and sometimes in my mind i think well worst case they will think i'm a transsexual and thats not bad...somehow in my mind i think i might pass as a transsexual girl but not a gg...

this weekend i was at my 2nd tparty.. and a guy was talking to me for a while and he asked if my voice was going to change after i have the "operation" !!! LOL!!!! my honest reaction was to be very flattered!!! so i'll take that into my head next time i venture into the "real" world and maybe get some confidence from that...

[Kristen Kelly]

You all couldn't be more right. It's the confidence that makes passing easier, there are times I miss being read. Look at the GG's they come in all different sizes shapes, and beauty. I have found the key for me is dress to blend, nothing will get you read more than a leather mini grocery shopping. Hold your head high, stick out your chest, and HAVE FUN.

[Marla S]

the other thing i wanted to mention that i think about passing is the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual..i have seen some very MANLY transexual girls and they live every day all day like that..i have great respect for that and sometimes in my mind i think well worst case they will think i'm a transsexual and thats not bad...somehow in my mind i think i might pass as a transsexual girl but not a gg...
I don't think people are aware of the difference between CD and TS (is there a basic one ?). So, most likely if you are read (with 6.2 and masculine proportions, it is likely) people will see you as TS or gay. And I think it is not the worst to be seen as TS, because it is easier for the people to understand that you want to be a woman (and people know more about TS), than to understand that you want to wear female clothes. The latter always has a touch of perversion and fetishism in the peoples eyes (I think so).

Most often (actually only a few times) when I see someone who might be one of us, TS pops into my mind. Only one time I thought this is not a TS, because this girl was simply overdressed for the particular situation.

[gennee]

To me, passing or being read is not important. I just love to dress up and go out. I attended a meeting dressed. My two friends didn't recognize me. It was the first time they saw me dressed. I felt great about that. I just be myself and go about my business.

Gennee

[JoannaDees]

I guess passing is not important, but acceptance is. If they say, that's a he, but she looks nice. That's good stuff. And it's even good stuff if one was to be outrageous in the makeup, like a drag queen. You are looking for different acceptance. I prefer the looks nice, guy yes, but looks nice, I'm not offended. Too bad offence is at the whim of the person, and so many people are awful, redneck, goofs. Afraid of reality.

[Phoebe Reece]

I agree with what Janessa and others have said about acceptance being far more important than passing. I also go one step farther though, to point out that sometimes when you are read, it is an opportunity to do some outreach and explain to people what crossdressing is all about. Some of the most interesting conversations I've had with strangers was explaining about my crossdressing. One of the more unusual experiences was when a clerk at a Bass Pro Shops (fishing, hunting, outdoor gear store) read me and another CD I was with and thought we were a couple of undercover policemen.

[Sally24]

I think this is one of the more interesting threads I've come across recently. I don't personally agree with alot of it, but that's just my situation. I'm just thrilled that everyone can discuss this nicely and show the different points of view that exists here.

Let's see if I can fit my own feelings into words. Being seen as female to me is of utmost importance. Now I'm not sure it's just as simple as it appears. Female doesn't necesarily mean GG, just accepted as TS, or CD, or Gay too probably. If they treat me as a female, then I'm happy. I try not to dwell too much on what each person I meet is thinking. God, if you did that even in drab mode you'd go crazy!

In any plans to "improve" my presentation, I try to think in terms of what I would do if I was a TS. I do serious work, time wise, in trying to perfect voice and movement as well as the typical make-up and wardrobe work. So I guess if I get read as a TS, then I feel good about that.

Ultimately I'd love for everyone I interact with to think I was a GG. In reality, I'd settle for everyone treating me like a female....no....like a lady.

Thanks for listening,
Sally

[DonnaTgyrl]

Ever see one of those surveys in the mall? I did one once and asked everyone if they could tell I was a physical male in female clothes - just kidding of course.

Point being no one is taking a survey of you. I don't "dress" to be noticed (love my 5 inch heels but those are for clubs and parties - not the mall). Nor do I "undress" to not be noticed - yes, I wear short skirts - hey - it's summer time. I dress in a feminine conservative manner - flats, skirt, etc for the mall and other daily things. Do I get "read?" - absolutely. Do I know who reads me? - absolutely not. Because I don't look to see who is looking at me. I go about my business just like everyone else. I have been told by gg's that I have nice legs. I have been told by men that I look attractive. Did they know I was physically a male? - probably.

Accept the fact that you are going to be "read." What is that saying, "you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all the time" or something like that. Accept that you will be read. But also accept the fact that no one cares. If you go about your business and do what you came to do, no one is going to care. There are gg's that I cannot tell what gender they are. Do I care? - nope. Does anyone else? Nope. Just go about your business.

Dress in a manner that is complimentary to your physical stature, your mental image of your feminine self and as the Cable Guy says - getter done.

Enjoy the ride.

Donna

[Billie Renee]

I myself don't worry about being read and I don't care I'm comfortable with who and what I am and have had no trouble where ever I go. I dress quite regurly and have no problems and if I'm read so what I am me and very comfortable.:love:

[GypsyKaren]

Good thread! I've said this plenty of times, passing is for fast cars, not people. I live full time now, and I get read all the time, which is fine with me. I just go about my business, I'm courteous and polite to everyone, and I always get the same thing back.

The first time I knew I'd been read really bothered me, I didn't go out for 3 weeks worrying about it, even though nothing bad happened. So I asked myself, what am I doing here? I spent my whole life trying to deceive people into thinking I was something I wasn't, a man. Did I really want to go back to that and try to pass myself off as a GG? I decided the answer to that was a big no. I'm just a person, pure and simple, and that's all I want to be taken as, nothing more and nothing less. Works for me...

Karen

[HaleyPink2000]

Myself I want to pass as best as I can. I'd rather try to look very female than any thing else in my life. My big concern is passing as well as possible. Then after that I go shopping etc. I don't actually care if I'm read. I just want to be treated as a female when dressed. It seems the more I try to look my best as a female the better people treat me. But sometimes, I get Ma'am even in male atire if I'm wearing a hat.:D

[LaceyDee]

I am with Aleria there. I am 6'2" and I love to wear heels. I know there are tall women out there, but when I dress I feel that I stick out like a waving pink flag. Maybe I should wear basketball shorts and heels and then I might be a role model!!

[pinkshelly]

I love going out dressed. The first time I went out in the daylight. I about froze up. Then I said to myself; hey if you want to live full time you got to start somewhere, and if you back out and run away you will just keep running. After that the only thing i really care about is getting beat up. That and getting fired (the boss don't know).
I usualy pass well till I speak. I'll have to work on that. till then WHO CARES.

[julie w]

anyone that knows anything about tg s or cd s will read you .,from my experence you dont want to get that second look, so I dress just like
other women in up to date clothes that a women my age would wear .also
it helps to go places were people are not used seeing cd s , I was out
today I acted confident and didnt keep looking around ,I didnt notice a second look , but someone may have read me who no s ,
I have seen 100 s of crossdressers at conventions and the number one
reason they dont pass is the clothes they wear and to much make up
if you dont care about not getting noticed go ahead and wear that 70 s
dress from good will , I have one but I would nt wear it out
happy outings julie

[Adrienne Heels]

I am 5-9 and love to wear heels, so I am pretty tall. But I think I do pass fairly well. I do try to dress fashionably for my age and try to fit in. Confidence is also very important as nervousness will attract unwanted attention.

And I do like to be treated like a lady when I am out shopping en femme. You'd be surprised....the other shoppers don't even usually look at you. They are too busy doing their own thing to care.

[trisha_anne]

I know what you mean MsJanessa. The moment I stopped worring about what everyone else was thinking when they looked at me I started to enjoy myself. I believe that if you show confidence in your self and put out the vibe that you are proud of who you are, then most people will go about there way and leave you alone; weather they read you are not. There will always being the jerks who think it is funny to hurt someone's feelings but I have found that if I don't let their comments get to me and don't let them see that they have made any impact on me what so ever then they leave me alone.

[Wenda]

I would agree completely.

Last Wednesday I finally got my Wife to come out and have dinner with me while I was dressed. I was so wound up worrying about Her being uncomfortable or deciding to back out on our Dinner Date that I completly forgot about being nervous myself. I enjoyed the evening immensely.

JulieFL
...and, how did your wife enoy the evening?

[Mitzi]

On a few occasions while en femme, I've mischievously asked sales persons whether they could tell I was a guy. Mostly I get surprised looks, but a couple of times I was the surprised one.

I was trying on dresses at Macy's once, and an older saleslady was being helpful. I decided to buy one, and just for fun, I asked her whether she could tell I was a guy. She very nonchalantly answered yes and went on with her business. Maybe she misheard my question...lol...

Another time I had dinner alone at a restaurant in Reno. The young waitress treated me like any other GG, so I assumed she hadn't read me, and after dinner asked "the question". She hemmed and hawwed, but finally said yes, she knew.

The point here is...even if people read you, and you aren't dressed outrageously, you'll probably never know. So there's little point getting all hyper over getting read.

Mitzi

[michelle19845]

over time i have been less worried about being read.i try to have confidence ,a smile and a happy soft voice.sometimes i may worry if it is young guys and i'm alone,but otherwise i just act like nothing is happening,it works well for me.

[ReginaK]

You all couldn't be more right. It's the confidence that makes passing easier, there are times I miss being read. Look at the GG's they come in all different sizes shapes, and beauty. I have found the key for me is dress to blend, nothing will get you read more than a leather mini grocery shopping. Hold your head high, stick out your chest, and HAVE FUN.

I've yet to run into a woman who was my shape and size. Maybe 6'2" female body builders are more common where you live.:sad:

[Krystal Lee]

It is always a concern but with experiance comes confidance and that I think is the big differance. I know I get read but I get more mam's now and that is a big boost.

Most people don't look that hard, they have there own problems and unless we do something to really stand out and draw attention to ourselves most folks will let it pass even if they do clock us.

I get mamed at checkouts by the busy cashiers and think its great. Not that I really pass but they were to busy to really pay attention, unless I have done something to draw that attention strongly to myself.

Passing is in the mind so to speak so make up your mind and go for it.

Hugs Krystal.

[Karren H]

Id rather be a good looking TG chick that passes well....

Love Karren

[Womanatheart1]

Janessa,
Good thread. Thank you.
Michele. I too want to pass – very badly. But because of this thread I now have added "acceptance" to my desires. I have been read and accepted and have been very happy with both. I regularly go out efem and have the most wonderful experience each time being accepted. When I am accepted as Stephanie. (I always as the waitress why she enjoys being a woman – and for many – they have no clue of their power and joy of being a woman) I hope my never ending work on Stephanie has me closer to passing but really -my enjoyment is acceptance.(now knowing of it) Will I ever pass??? Probably never, without surgery and hormones. My look as Stephanie is a never ending (really joyous) work. But you are right about being accepted and the pleasure of being accepted. I am in heaven out with other gg’s efem for a few drinks or being accepted by the crew at the cosmetic counter or chatting with 2 gg clerks at Barnes and Nobles who have time to chat with Stephanie about cding. (How women enjoy talking girly things.) I find most people surprisingly very accepting and willing to chat if they can. Now I have had my stares (you can tell when they stare), whispers and cat calls. I have had one guy actually follow me! Actually, they are few. One of my best days going out efem was at the mall was the day I forgot to wear my contacts under my sunglasses – anyone further than 10 feet were oblivious to me – so didn’t know their reaction! I was in heaven. Point being – don’t worry.)
Like earlier said – stick your chest out and be a woman! :happy:
The unbelievable power of a woman!
Love, Stephanie