Crossdresser and crossdressing what is it.

[janedoe311]

If one looks at the word crossdresser and take it literally, then it would be “A person that wears the clothes of the opposite gender. But is that actually correct in all cases?

Are all these crossdressing?

A man comes home on a hot day and puts on a utility kilt
A man comes home on a hot day and puts on a skirt made for men, look much like utility kilts.
A man comes home on a hot day and puts on a old drab skirt of his wife’s
A man comes home on a hot day and puts on a dress, his own.
A man wears a dress or skirt in public no attempt to pass, may even have a beard or mustache.
A man puts wears a dress, wig, make up in public, not passable.
A man wears a dress, wig, make up in public, not passable but pretends to be a woman.
A man wears a dress, wig, make up in public, passable and pretends to be a woman.

A woman comes home and puts on old pants and T shirt of her husbands to clean the house
A woman wears men’s pants in public, for her they fit better then woman’s.
A woman wears men’s pants and a loose fitting men’s shirt in public.
A woman binds her chest, wears men’s clothes, pretending to be a man.
A woman wears a man’s shirt and pants is not trying to pass as a man.

Many years ago a woman could not purchase pants made for woman only mens pants. So is it crossdressing for a woman to wear pants any pants?

Was it crossdressing for a woman to wear men's pants before they could purchase woman's pants?

How many men would wear men’s skirts or utility kilts, if it was acceptable by the public? I suspect it would be 50%, eventually but it would take time. A man in a dress or a woman’s shirt is another matter. I doubt that would ever be expectable.

Why is it crossdresssing for a man to wear a more comfortable skirt or dress in private or public, but not crossdressing for a woman to wear a men’s shirt and pants?

I think crossdressing is in the eyes of the beholder in other words in the word of law “intent”. A woman wearing mens pants to clean the house is not crossdressing in the publics eye, but a man putting on a more comfortable skirt on a hot day would be crossdressing in the eyes of the public, but should not in all cases! Ah, but what if he is wearing it because he wants to express his feminine side, then it would be crossdressing, his intent! Confusing it is not?

Just because a man or woman is wearing clothes of the opposite gender does not make them “gender confused’, maybe it is more comfortable for them. But that is not the way the public sees it.

Does that mean that some people “crossdressing” are crossdressers, (gender confused), and some simply wear what is more comfortable for them?

What is boils down to is that crossdressing is something one does, for what ever reason and TG,TS “gender confused” etc it a state of mind, what you are. So you really cannot define crossdressing accurately because it is just an outward display and says nothing about intent.

But then does what the public think really matter to any of us?

[LaceyDee]

I feel that the word crossdressing at this point in time refers to men who dress up as women. In recent history, women have been wearing "men's" clothing as part of their regular wardrobe and not getting any flack from society. I've always thought that in a certain way that women are more free to dress and do things that used to be a only for men. Maybe one day.........

[CaptLex]

How about this . . .

Some women wear men's pants (crossdressing)
Some women wear women's pants (not crossdressing)
Some men wear women's skirts (crossdressing)
Someday there may be men's skirts for men to wear (not crossdressing)

However, if a man intends to feel feminine, wouldn't he want to wear the woman's skirt and not the man's skirt? Isn't that the point of MtF crossdressing? Please let me know if I got this wrong.

[Maria D]

Many years ago a woman could not purchase pants made for woman only mens pants. So is it crossdressing for a woman to wear pants any pants?

Was it crossdressing for a woman to wear men's pants before they could purchase woman's pants?

Yes, it was crossdressing for women to wear men's trousers then, and they were scorned for it. This happened, they rode it out and now they have trousers made for them; that's why it's not crossdressing now.

Clothes have changed form many times over the millennia, and the discussions here on what crossdressing 'is' don't consider that much. It's not a 'skirt' that's the issue, it's the fact that they aren't currently a man's garment, the fact that men are rarely seen in them socially, the fact that there are expectations placed upon people to fit the role assigned to them, and the fact that being unmanly is not always seen as a good thing for a man to be (something I think many, many men don't actually like, but accept as part of their defining influences).

It's not just a 'CD' issue, it's a 'treatment of a minority' issue, and until that ALL changes, that's what the cards are to deal with. Personally, I'd give them a shuffle. :)

[SherriePall]

Hope I'm not too far off the track with this. I read somewhere once that a CD said that she did not wear women's clothes. She wore her own.

[Brianna Lovely]

Ok, a little sharp perhaps.

Are we to spend the rest of our life's worrying about what is acceptable to society?

Not me. Today I went to the local convenience store to buy lotto tickets, then I went to the Post Office to buy stamps. I went in a denim skirt and a blue embroidered top, sandals and my toes and fingers with bright red polish on. If anything, the GG clerks treated me with extra kindness. None of the men I passed said anything. (could be because I'm 6' tall and weigh 200 lbs.)

[Ranee Daze]

I just watched the movie "The Libertine" with Johnny Depp and John Malkowic, and it really does make you wonder why fashion is so gender oriented. Wigs, makeup and elabourate fashions were part of the male aresenal back then.
I used to dress very well, and I was good at makeup etc. Loved it as well, but you wouldn't catch me wearing a pink shirt in drab.
In the end the fashionistas try to cram our sensibilities (and our dollars) into their little boxes.
Catherine Hepburn got women into our pants. Who will get us out of them?

[MarinaTwelve200]

Its not crossdressing if one wears a skirt or dress designed for a MAN. A KILT or a ROBE are MALE items

CD generally involves symbolically or psychologically dropping the male persona/identity and taking on a female one--something only female intended clothing or clothing configurations can induce.

The no attempt to "pass" thing might reflect more of a "fetish" angle or a need for "attention".

The partial dresser, who may wear underwear, etc. under his male clothes may be looking for a "sensual" thrill from the feel of the fabric or a "rush" from getting away with doing something "forbidden" (people not seeing the clothing)

In a WAY they are mostly all CD, as we have different motivations for wearing items of clothing made for the opposite sex, but the identity thing and full dress up is the more "classic" CD example that comes to mind---and even THAT has different motives--eg, to "escape" from ones "real self" or to "become who I really am" or the "High" one can get from "Identity barrier crossing", etc.

[janedoe311]

In the 60’s and 70’s there was a short neutral gender look. Mostly it was for women and it did not last long.

If you notice in shopping centers and malls most of the clothing’s stores are for women. You rarely see a men’s store. There is a lot of money in women’s clothing. So who sets fashions? I always wondered about that. Wide ties, narrow ties, wide belts, narrow belts, where is it now? I have my old narrow ties and a 20 year old suit! Short skirts, long skirts, long hair, short hair. Doesn’t Tyra Banks dye her hair brown, it looks good? Remember the hot pants for women! They did not last long either. Was in college and almost ran into walls!:heehee: I saw a fashion show a few months ago with a man wearing a bra and forms, and again they are trying skirts for men this time long and flowing, they tried them in the 70’s, a short ones more like a kilt!

Also many years ago a designer tried to get women interest in the bright color wigs as a fashion accessory, ie match your hair color to your outfit. Then there was the cellophane temporary hair color, the dye lasted about 6 weeks, usually bright colors.

Do the fashions change when people stop purchasing the old ones, or is it just on a whim?

So how much does fashion influence what is expectable for genders to wear? They do make skirts for men but men do not wear them. And I agree that would not be crossdressing. But we have to start somewhere.

If you can not get the public used to men in dresses then start with men in male skirts. Then when people get used to that they might not be so shocked when men wear dresses or female skirts! :heehee:

I babble sometimes! Crossdressing seems to be what you think it is.

[Snookums]

does that mean I can now wear my levis skirt out of the house:eek:

[Snookums]

after a long day of running erreands,I tear off those Gloria Vanderbilt jeans,tee shirt,and Nine West heels,and it's a hot shower.Then into a sun dress and flats for the night.sounds like a normal day for me

[Kimberley]

How about this . . .

Some women wear men's pants (crossdressing)
Some women wear women's pants (not crossdressing)
Some men wear women's skirts (crossdressing)
Someday there may be men's skirts for men to wear (not crossdressing)

However, if a man intends to feel feminine, wouldn't he want to wear the woman's skirt and not the man's skirt? Isn't that the point of MtF crossdressing? Please let me know if I got this wrong.
****************
Jean-Paul Gaultier did it for men years ago. He is definitely the bad boy of fashion for his design of skirts for men, use of trans and gay folk for models, overweight models, tattooed models. He has always had a bit of tongue in cheek approach to his work often making fun of the fashion world at large for their hypocrisy but we love him anyway. He was/is just decades ahead of his time.

Kimberley.

[tekla west]

If a man wears it, then its crossdressing. If a woman wears it, its fashion.

[Dee 1062]

If I wear men cloths or if I wear ladys cloths,,,all the same I'm still me...dee dee

[Helen MC]

For some men who CD the only way they can wear a "skirt" outdoors IS to wear a kilt so I think it is wrong to devalue them. To the man in the street it is a kilt and that gets them off the hook, but to them it is a pleated tartan (plaid) skirt with panties worn beneath, probably relatively plain ones in case they give a flash or the wind lifts their kilt. The Utility Kilt is a step in the right direction and I am seeing younger men wearing these often with their G/F or wife dressed in a similar outfit. Likewise the "underdresser"- I have done this since I was 12. Yes, women's knickers are far more comfortable than men's underpants, although nowadays men's briefs are more like women's panties, (no fly, elasticated leg openings, double gusset, in many colours and shades) than the old style "Tighty Whitey" Y Fronts (Jockey Shorts) of bygone days , but for both sexual and comfort reasons I wear real WOMEN'S Panties 24/7 under my male trousers and jeans, so in my mind I am Crossdressing though not to the extent of the man who goes outdoors en-femme and "passes" or attempts to do so.

[janedoe311]

does that mean I can now wear my levis skirt out of the house:eek:

In Florida probally. Some skirts and the utility kilts look like shorts from the side so it is not "female looking" few will notice.

[silkylegs]

The only way i dress up as a woman is by looking extremely sexy and wearing pattern tights or hosiery and the shortest skirt possible and high heels...
that's it. It is thrilling for me to leave the house and go to the newspaper box dressed this way and I could care a less what any uptight member of the public might think about it.........................:tongueout