Bad experience in a straight club

[KristinVanHorn]

Well I had kind of a frightening experience last night. I go to a lot of straight clubs because I can pass pretty well and I had a kind of scarry experience with this creep who was really sexually aggressive. He wouldn't leave me alone and I was afraid he was going to find out what I was. If he had I don't know what he would have done. Usually all I do is just dance with guys at these places and then leave because most wouldn't be cool with taking home a *******. But this guy was a freak. I finally just told the bouncer and he dealt with the guy while I slipped out. Wow! is this the kind of thing woman have to put up with?

[Sharon]

It just goes to show you -- get to know the bouncers! :)
I'm happy everything worked out okay for you Kristin.

[Wendy me]

at least you were smart enough to get some help avoid the trouble if you can

[Lily_gg]

Wow! is this the kind of thing woman have to put up with?
On occasion, yes :(

Fortunately, provided you don't go anywhere 'rough', it's not too common an occurrence, but there are men out there who seem to truly believe that "NO!" actually means maybe, or even yes... One once told me that he "liked a challenge" - I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do or not, but after the umpteenth attempted and unwelcome grope (all the previous ones met with my pushing his hands away, telling him to go away, telling him to f--- off), I shoved him rather roughly off the dance platform several of us were on (I'd moved around the club a couple of times, he just followed me, I chose the platform because it looked like there was only room for me and my friend, but he squeezed on anyway), he landed on a large bloke who threatened to smack him, at which point the bouncers arrived - I think had they not, he'd've been straight back up there.

Then there's the worrying rise of 'date rape' and 'drug rape' cases - very scary, and the reason that I'd never go clubbing on my own, don't accept drinks from strangers, don't drink anything I haven't seen poured in front of me (unless bought by someone I trust completely, e.g. my bf), don't leave my drink unattended etc.

On the flip side, there are also some really lovely blokes out there who wouldn't ever dream of doing anything you didn't want them to, and I get to call one of them mine :)

[KristinVanHorn]

On occasion, yes :(

Fortunately, provided you don't go anywhere 'rough', it's not too common an occurrence, but there are men out there who seem to truly believe that "NO!" actually means maybe, or even yes... One once told me that he "liked a challenge" - I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do or not, but after the umpteenth attempted and unwelcome grope (all the previous ones met with my pushing his hands away, telling him to go away, telling him to f--- off), I shoved him rather roughly off the dance platform several of us were on (I'd moved around the club a couple of times, he just followed me, I chose the platform because it looked like there was only room for me and my friend, but he squeezed on anyway), he landed on a large bloke who threatened to smack him, at which point the bouncers arrived - I think had they not, he'd've been straight back up there.

Then there's the worrying rise of 'date rape' and 'drug rape' cases - very scary, and the reason that I'd never go clubbing on my own, don't accept drinks from strangers, don't drink anything I haven't seen poured in front of me (unless bought by someone I trust completely, e.g. my bf), don't leave my drink unattended etc.

On the flip side, there are also some really lovely blokes out there who wouldn't ever dream of doing anything you didn't want them to, and I get to call one of them mine :)

Whew! I'm glad this guy didn't grope me. I was wearing a dress and not tucked well so he would have been very surprised.

[Amelie]

Yes Kristen, women have to put up with this almost everyday. They get abused everywhere, not just in clubs. In the street, subways, even at work, women have to put up with a lot of garbage, and unlike us Cds, they can't change into man mode. Well,, maybe some can change into man mode, but not all. Lol
I used to go to mainly straight clubs in NYC. There guys would alays be touching me, rubbing there bodies on me, saying the most vulgar things, what they wanted me to do to them. Even when I told some of these men that I was a man in drag, they thought this might be kinky and still bothered me. Guys would follow me home after being in the clubs. Most times I would walk past the police station that was a few blocks from where I lived. This would scare them away. Or I would walk through the empty lots, that was filled with rubble, and I would wait in a dark corner, no guy was going to follow me in there. They also got scared and ran away.

Yes. women have this problem and if you(CDs) pass quite well, you will get these same problems.
Love Amelie

PS-Even if CDs don't pass very well, they will get these problems.

[LauraB]

Hi Kristin

Some GG friends of mine put up with this kind of behaviour on a regular basis.

I am glad that you were smart enough to get out of the situation safely (smart girl getting help from the staff)

Take some comfort in that this dreadful situation at least confirms how convincing you are. ( now i always look for the silver in the grey) And the fact that you were able to deal with the situation so convincingly as well.



Love
Laura

[LauraB]

Thanks to Amelie for thinking out of the box

She is so right

Convincing CD's will ahve these problems
Unconvincing CD's might have even worse, oh dear what a tangled web we are all hooked into.

I am sure that problems like this have cause so many of our sisters to remain firmly compartmentlised in dream and thought only As well has preventing many more sisters even taking up the challenge to find themselves

Sorry a bit morbid

Love

Laura

[Rachel Ann]

Wow! is this the kind of thing woman have to put up with?
Years ago, I lived across the street from a gay bar. Since it was the only bar for blocks around, there was an understanding that well-behaved non-gays from the neighborhood were welcome, too.

I learned a LOT about what women go through there - how deflect an unwanted advance without making a scene, that sort of thing.

[KristinVanHorn]

Thanks to Amelie for thinking out of the box

She is so right

Convincing CD's will ahve these problems
Unconvincing CD's might have even worse, oh dear what a tangled web we are all hooked into.

I am sure that problems like this have cause so many of our sisters to remain firmly compartmentlised in dream and thought only As well has preventing many more sisters even taking up the challenge to find themselves

Sorry a bit morbid

Love

Laura

There's a sort of dangerous trap in being passable. If a man makes a move on you but then discovers your secret they can get really pissed. Even violent. The mistake I've made a few times was assuming that someone knew what I was and then getting in an intimate situation only to find out the hard way he didn't really know. I've never been assalted but have been threatened. I've become rather parranoid lately about being approached by straight men. I want to tell them up front but that's risky too. I try to look for the one's who are sort of open minded and won't get insulted. Some of these types are even curious enough to explore but they're rare.

[Chrissycd]

This is a very important thread, girls. There are many girls out here, me included, who don't have very much experience being on receiving end of advances, whether they are appreciated ones or frightening ones. I intend to start stepping out more and more, and I know many other girls plan to as well. SO, please tell us how else you've handled such men. Tell us your stories, please. What you have learned may just save one of us social virgins from being beaten up or worse.
Thanks for starting this thread Kristen. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Chrissy

[Chrissycd]

Misspelling names. ARRRRRGGHHHHH... Sorry, Kristin. :p

[Rachel Ann]

I want to tell them up front but that's risky too
Well, lots of GGs just always go to dicey places like bars with a gf. That way, you can deal with the risky stuff on the premises and have someone to leave with you if things get scary.

[Lily_gg]

I don't know how to deal with the guy-not-knowing-what-you-really-are situation, obviously, but in terms of just deflecting an advance because you're really not interested, there are several ways of doing it:

Firstly, just tell them to back off, you're not interested.
In quieter public spaces, try shaming them - I've heard tales of girls holding up guys' hands on public transport, whilst loudly asking "Has anyone lost this? I found it on my <insert name of body part>"
Be very aloof and refuse to talk to them.
Tell them you're waiting for someone. "Who?" "Not you."
Only ever go out if you have at least one friend with you, so they can come and help you out (and make sure you both get home safe). This can backfire however - some guys simply become more persistent when faced with two girls (case in point: charming gent trying to physically push me and my friend together, to dance closer for him. Hit the end of my tether when he tried to grab us both on the backs of our necks to make us kiss. To my shame ['t'was rather stupid after all], this prompted me to take a rather firm grip of his windpipe, and push him backwards across the dancefloor, telling him to F*** OFF). Having at least one male friend around (sexuality irrelevant), who's happy to come to your aid and be your 'boyfriend' (the over-protective looking type preferably) is invaluable
If hands go where you don't want them, firmly remove them. A crushing grip on their wrist or across the middle of the hand often helps here.
Move away from the situation, go to the bar, into the ladies' room, wherever.
If all else fails, fetch a bouncer, and tell them he was harrassing you / starting a fight / whatever.
And if even that fails, go back into male mode and smack him one... :D

And of course, this is one time when being taller than average girls is good for you girls - I'm over six foot once in heels (so sue me - I love high heels! :p), and I very rarely get bothered by guys who I don't want to be bothered by ;) There have even been occasions where a guy has started walking towards me, looking like he was going to try a chat-up, got close enough to realise that I am in fact staring over his head, and drastically changed course... :D

[Rachel Ann]

To my shame ['t'was rather stupid after all], this prompted me to take a rather firm grip of his windpipe, and push him backwards across the dancefloor, telling him to F*** OFF).
Why ashamed? I have seen the crowd break out in applause when things like that happened.



Having at least one male friend around (sexuality irrelevant), who's happy to come to your aid and be your 'boyfriend' (the over-protective looking type preferably) is invaluable
Chumming up with the (male) bartender or Maitre D' is always a good idea, not everyplace has bouncers, and some of them are hard to motivate for various reaons.

I say this as a former bouncer.

Love

[Lily_gg]

To my shame because it could have ended very violently and scary, and whilst he was shorter than me, and fortunately rather intimidated by my grabbing exactly the right spot on his throat as a reflex action (put fingers and thumb either side of windpipe, push slightly towards back of throat, now squeeze in so holding windpipe), he was also rather stockily built, and I'm not sure how much of a chance I'd've stood if he lashed out, or had a knife or similar.

I have received rounds of applause in bars though - I used to work at my student union, and there was a general understanding that if a customer (ie student) had a go at you (also a student) you could give 'em hell back. There was the odd moron who'd have a go about how long they'd been waiting to be served, 'you stupid b!tch!', and promptly regret it for the next ten minutes, often just before being thrown out by security (I've always got on well with bouncers, and really well with the ones I work with - y'know, all the little things like bringing them drinks before they ask and stuff, just cos I can. Ditto the chefs when I worked at pubs & restaurants - got some gorgeous meals cooked for me in return - one chef used to hang about after his shift to make us the world's best omelettes - mmmmm).

Generally not overly smart to do things like that if you're not behind the bar though, or if you're too drunk to have a decent chance if things did get nasty. :cool:

[Rachel Ann]

Going for the windpipe is effective, though you must live with the possibility that you might seriously injure them and have to deal with the repercussions.

A heel to the instep, especially a high heel, is also good to buy you a little time.

Let's be careful out there!

Love

[Trinity_cat]

Glad to here you came through this ordeal physically unscathed, Kirsten.
It was a frightening situation to be in.

The other posts on this thread are full on very good advice.
All the members on this site should take heed, and know the problems the average female faces going out on the town.

[Krissi]

My wife, Sister-in-Law and myself were walking through a mall here in the Dallas area a few weeks ago and my sister -in-law is 26 done some acting and modeling, beautiful when made up. She was walking just ahead of my wife and I and a guy stepped up to her, put his arm around her and started rubbin and talkin to her, well of course she pushes him away with a "hey a$$hole" and he comes back for more. I stepped up at that point, he was pissed and embarrassed, you could hear some chuckling coming from nearby, told him that if he touched her again he'd draw back a stubb (advantage of being much taller and bigger than him). She looked to be handling it, but a guy that aggressive in a non-bar setting was weird.

[Lily_gg]

Geeze!!! I mean, I've had guys whistling and making comments and stuff, but actually coming up to her like that?! OH MY GOD! Great that you were there to help her out.

I tend to stay out of trouble (partly because I stay away from it, partly because I'm tall enough that other women look like easier targets/victims than me), but it is so horrible when it happens, particularly when the guy won't take no for an answer.

All of you promise me that if you ever see a girl being hassled, you help her out? (not that I doubt you do anyway, but hey!)

[DonnaT]

a guy that aggressive in a non-bar setting was weird.

I've seen it in DC. Happens more than you'd think.

Most times the ladies handle it well and the guys not too aggressive, not in broad day light.

One time the guy wouldn't take no for an answer and I casually stepped in front of him as he walked along with the lady, then I stopped. He was quite peed off, and started yelling at me as she was escaping. I just smiled and said, "Hey, you bumped me!" and kept walking.