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Sage GG
07-01-2006, 01:01 PM
This thread has probably been on before but after this week I really think it needs to be on again.

One of the new ladies, usually a lurker here, went out with few friends to dinner, after a lovely evening two ladies went to their car and this new lady went to go to hers in another parking garage and realized that in her excitement she had forgotten where she left the car. She is en femme, alone and lost in a strange city. She had to wander around the garage past hordes of teenagers to finally find her car.


We raised two girls and let me tell you if they had done this they would have been grounded until they were 32.

So here goes my completely unsolicited advice.

BE SAFE,

if you go out have a plan, take each other to the car, if you park separately, drive the other person to their car. Make sure that the car starts before you drive away.


Most girls have this sort of safety message drummed into their heads from the time they are little.

Please take as much time thinking about how you will be safe as what you will wear.


Could any of you girls that go out please add to this?

Billijo49504
07-01-2006, 01:05 PM
THANK YOU, this message should be repeated about every 4 to 6 months. That would keep it fresh in everyones mind. Fun is fun, but safety is number one...:hugs: ...BJ
ps. I helped raise 3 girls

Gaby
07-01-2006, 01:30 PM
Total agreement with you. Rule # 1 for going out should be: If you are going out as a woman, try to be as careful as a woman would be. Don't go anywhere you wouldn't want your mom or your daughter to go by herself. Don't expose yourself to trouble if you can avoid it.

It is not about being paranoid, it is about being safe. Thank you for the reminder.

Gaby

Kate Simmons
07-01-2006, 01:46 PM
Thanks for the advice Sage but I assure you, I am never alone. Richard is always there with me to assert himself if necessary and between the two of us, we take no crap from anyone. Not only that but I always make sure I know where things are. Ericka

Marla S
07-01-2006, 01:53 PM
Well I don't go out fully dressed, but dressed and rouged enough to be noticable sometimes.
Since I do I can feel in a way why my ex wanted to have a dog to accompany her on her way back home at night (she usually works until 8 pm).
Before my own "experiences" I only understood it from a men's point of view.

DanaJ
07-01-2006, 02:12 PM
I do this no matter how I am dressed, or if it is a night out with the boys - it's just common courtesy to wait for your friend to make sure his/her car starts and that they drive away.....

tekla west
07-01-2006, 03:10 PM
Going Out - Rules of the Road

For my part, I have come to understand that I want people to know I’m a gender outlaw, a fashion desperado out writing my field notes in lipstick if you please. My friend DeeDee uses the term Positive Presentation and I really like that thought. My goal is to blend in and merge - and not necessary to pass. I find that a simple, basic look, well done does just that. I figure that a guy in a dress and a skirt is more than enough, why overdo it? I will go into this a bit more in a sec, but I would like to stress that I do try to keep it positive, both for me, as well as all I encounter. And I try to think of it as a type of "Presentation" too, because it is.

So now, here are Kat's little rules for going out and about. (at least all the ones I've thought of so far). Now I can't do anything about the problems of being caught by your wife, or by someone you know, or by your boss or anything like that. That problem varies too much from person to person to address it very well in this forum, aside from pointing out that you can go to the next town or big city, where they do not know you from Eve. But there are several things I've learned about going out that might make it a bit easier, if nothing else you need not repeat my mistakes, so let me pass those on.

1. Learn to think like a woman

Because any place that would be real unsafe for you, would also most likely be unsafe for any single woman also. And that is about the most basic rule I can think of.

Now most of this is stuff real girls know, the dark side stuff beyond frills and lace, the stuff that deals with being personally safe in a very unsafe world. You become a girl not with the panties, or the bra, or the perfume, but with that very real fear that verges on paranoia that accompanies you out the door.

We live in a world where you can not always defend yourself well enough. So the best choice is always to avoid the problem in the first place. You become a girl not with the panties, or the bra, or the perfume, but with that very real fear that verges on paranoia that accompanies you out the door. Remember, even paranoids have real enemies.

So first of all, BE SAFE. Scout places out, go there in drab, or go early if in drag for the first time. That way you can get a general feel for the place, and you can watch the crowd build and spot potential problems before they arise. I've gone to several places only to watch people start to show up and decide that they are not the folks that I want to spend the rest of the evening with, though never out of safety concerns, but more along the lines of being bored. Still.....

Moreover, if you go early you can see this happen before a problem arises, and still have plenty of time to go somewhere else.

People working in espionage have two basic rules. One, is the "hide in plain sight" rule I will talk about in a bit, but the other is simply stated by saying "never walk into anyplace till you know how you are going to walk out." Both seem to be good ideas to keep in mind as we go out to be spies in the house of love.


2. Hide in Plain Sight

My goal is not to pass, but merge and mingle and just be a part of it all. I do not want to stand out or pull focus to myself. But I do not want to be invisible either. In the great wide world I just want to, in the words of Babba Ram Dass, to Be Here Now. I seek to move through gently, easily, and peacefully through where ever I am. I just figure that people who look close will always notice, and a lot of sly smiles and the occasional scowl will tell you that this is true. So I just I try to be able to be there without calling undo attention to myself.

In terms of places to go I have found that the brighter, the more heavily populated, the more specially open anyplace is, the better it is. I think that the safest place to be is in the middle of the big downtown shopping areas like State Street in Chicago, or 5th Ave in New York at high noon. Yes, more people will see you, and more people will notice you, but they are also much less likely to do anything about it either. These are places filled with busy people having busy lives. The real fact is the more people there are, the more open and public the place is, the more that is going on there, then the safer you are going to be. Period.

3. Bright Lights Are Your Friend (at least outside)

Big problems happen in closed spaces and in dark places. So avoid them. And I know that is not as easy as its sounds. First, the stealth and secrecy that many of us build into our lives naturally leads to seeking out things on the dimmer edge of life, the stuff the exists in the shadows because that is where we think we belong and because we have a mistaken idea that somehow being dark and anonymous is equivalent to safety. That tends to be true only in as much as you are living a secret. If discovery is not a problem then you do not need such places.

Think about this when parking in particular. I prefer to walk two or three blocks through a busy commercial area in order to park right on the street, under a bright light, and in front of a business, then to have to use that little spot in the alley where you can get to the club or whatever without being seen, which is, all too often, the favorite spot of Tgirrls. Remember, if no one can see you going in and out, no one can see anything else happen either. This goes double and triple for big, huge, urban parking structures, about the only place I worry about being in anymore.

4. Arty, Upscale, and Educated is Much Better!

It is not my goal to start some form of class warfare, but here it is. And since the greatest control you have is the choice of where to go, then this makes sense from the standpoint of attempting to minimize the chances for contact with disagreeable, unpleasant, and uptight people. The more expensive, upscale, chic, trendy, haute couture, and highly educated the place and/or the event is, the better you will be received there - or, at the very least, the fewer hassles you will encounter.

First off, people with a lot to lose tend not to do real stupid things, or, at the very least, they avoid doing them in public places. And, as its true that ignorance breeds intolerance, affluence and education tend to be more open and less put off by the whole gender deal, or at the very least, they are people who don't care about it one way or the other. In some cases they may even be very accepting of it because its such a trendy issue within the modernist debate.

This tends to work out as true pretty much across the board I've found out. Not surprisingly, they are also more "female" oriented shops and places and not "guy hangouts." If your going out to the mall, go to the expensive, upscale ones, and not the local bargain center / outlet mall. I find that I get treated better in very good department stores like Macys and Bloomindales than I would at Target, Big K, or Wall Mart, though in truth I never shop at such places, and in large part I think everyone get treated better in more upscale stores.

I find that for myself, art events and artistic spaces - concerts, art galleries, art museums and the like - are better than more "blue collar" places, bowling alleys and sporting events. The artistic crowd is very open to difference and differences, and tends to be as far from the mainstream as possible, and galleries and openings often have nice little snacks too. Big museums, like the MOMA in NYC the Art Institute in Chicago and the De Young in San Francisco are very good, too. Again part of this is the clientele, but it also has to do with these spaces being very well protected. Granted its the art that is under guard, and not you, but it works out well for Tgirrls nonetheless.

Chic restaurants, left-wing / boho coffee houses, and trendy nightclubs are better than sports bars, chain food outlets, and for god's sake, do stay away from so-called "family" places like Denny’s.

Other good places for me seem to be bookstores - particularly the used / out-of-print / academic book stores. I can spend hours in a store like that. For the most part you are dealing with the most well educated and liberal slice of the population you could ever find in any commercial establishment. Furniture stores, antique stores, kitchen and houseware stores like Williams-Sonoma have also been very open and friendly places to me also. Not surprisingly you don't find many intolerant rednecks in a place where the cheapest thing they sell is a spatula, and they want 11 bucks for that as it is.

Just think about this for a second. I know a few Tgirrls in Europe who go out dressed to Grand Prix races on the continent. Now Grand Prix racing has always had that real snotty, sports car, rich playboy, Eurotrash atmosphere. Its a form of racing that seems to have more in common with art exhibits and wine and cheese parties than grease, gears, and oil. These girls love going to the races, and don't seem to run into any more problems than usual at these events. Now, here in the States, NASCAR is real big, but that's stock cars, not sports cars, beer and not brie, and not anyplace I would think of going dressed. Now a lot of that has to do with a couple of basic differences between life in Europe and life in the USA, but there is more than enough of and illustration of the above point to make it worth telling anyway.

There is another strange corollary to this I have found. That is that younger tends to be much better than older. People under 25 or so look upon dressing in a very different way than people over 35 do. They are much more open to it, accepting of it, and even at times, encouraging. Which of course, is ever so sweet and dear. So outside of the "safe" places, drag bars and GirlBars, I have found that techno clubs and raves are very cool places to go dressed.

This may be because I feel so comfortable around kids in the 18-28 age range, but I think that there has been a sea-change in their generation's attitude toward gender and it comes through strongly in techno/rave culture, which, not coincidentally, tends to be the more educated and affluent segment of that age group. I have come to believe that parts of the under 28 Rave / Deadhead / Klubkid culture are a bit more open to TG persons than older people's hangouts are. Anyone who has been to a Lords of Acid or a My Life with the Thrill Kill Kult concerts knows that a guy in a dress is the least offensive fashion statement being made. As for Crystal Method and the Chemical Brothers, lets just say that people flying somewhere out past Jupiter on a cornucopia of illegal drugs are not going to do anything that will draw the attention of the cops to them. That is, if they even notice you, or can be sure that you are not just one more hallucination.

I have gone to a pile of raves and even to several techno concerts - including Chemical Brothers, Crystal Method and Lords of Acid - dressed. I feel good about doing this because I feel so at ease in the midst of that particular crowd, both the boys and the girls. Just bring good pair of earplugs and don't drink from any open bottles - in that they are a lot like the Acid Tests and Grateful Dead shows.

The Techno/Goth/Rave Dance clubs are a scene in themselves, and again, I assure you that my little demure black dress is the mildest fashion in the place filled with leather, latex, glitter, spandex, and underwear worn as outerwear. Such places are most assuredly not for everyone, and so its only a suggestion, something to think about for those so inclined, which pretty much starts and ends with people who know who those bands are and what kind of music they do in the first place. Although the names, in and of themselves, offer a pretty good clue.

5. DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE!

Come to think about it, don't drink at all. First off, I think that the nerves you feel when you go out the first few times, tend to encourage you to drink way too much. I've watched it happen a lot, and went through it myself at first. And, what starts out as a "just this time" quickly becomes the pattern and the usual course of events.

Second, and most importantly, I think that out of all the common place problems that arise when you are out dressed, being arrested by the police is the most feared, and the number one reason that many people are afraid to go out at all. And hey, why not, I don't think that any of us are thrilled about being arrested regardless of how we are dressed. So it sure stands to reason that if we are out and about in our best girl stuff then it takes on a whole new dimension. And while I’m quite sure that most major police departments have taken efforts to educate their officers about gender issues, and while most of the older statutes that made dressing illegal have been eclipsed (check in your area for yourself though) - I’m equally sure that the same police have a heightened sensitivity to drinking and driving.

They do not like it, and they love to arrest people for it. The way around the problem is simple, don't drink. Also, I think it does pay to have your wits about you when you are out in the world dressed in your Sunday (or Saturday Night) best. Probably should at all times anyway, but in particular when you are dressed. Just makes it easier to deal with people, and puts you at less risk also because you are in control of yourself, and hence, the situation in general.

6. The Bathroom Project

Which leads to the number one question of all time when it comes to going out. What bathroom do you use? Good question, and it deserves a better answer than . . . "Depends," (and no, not the product!) But that is about as good as I can do right now. A whole lot of positive attitude on your part combined with a basic respect for other people's feelings and comfort levels will go a long way toward getting the minimal amount of slack you need so I play it by ear and observe what others are doing. Also, if you don't drink, you don't need to go as much.

I try to find ALL the bathrooms at the beginning of the night and seek out the smaller and more out of the way one if that is an option. This is a strange area because there are legal ramifications involved in many areas, including indecent exposure. At big dance clubs in the big cities, particularly if there is a mixed audience, I will use the woman's room. I also use the woman's room in the stranger, freaky places that exist on the fringe in the deep shadows of the modern underworld, the places in San Francisco, New York, and Chicago, London, Paris, Berlin.

If there is a real question or any doubt I will use the men's room. Since I’m a guy – remember, I’m not trying to pass, so this is obvious (and as I said, I think it almost always is) – I just find that it is easier in most cases to go this way. Men are far more used to seeing women in the men's room than women are used to seeing men in the lady's room. Do use the stall in men's rooms though. I also will not fix my makeup in the men's room, I mean, why push it? If I feel comfortable enough to use the women's room, then I always feel at ease enough to do my makeup there as well. Unisex bathrooms make all the difference here and we need a lot more of them if you ask me.

Do remember though as many of the "safe" and "friendly" places that have opened up are primarily lesbian bars you should always uses the little boy's room there. It a whole big political deal, too big to go into here. All you have to remember is that basic rule of GirlBars. Now I happen to think that the Lesbian Community is a lot more accepting of gender variance experience than the gay male community has been, and so I'm very happy to follow their rule and to try to accommodate myself to their comfort levels. Other than that, the GirlBars I've been into have been great, and they are a good first place to start going out to. And oh yeah, you could just ask.

7. Attitude Is Everything!

Few things are more important in your public presentation than your attitude. So first take stock of your attitude toward yourself, who you are, who you want to be, and what you are doing. Stand up straight! Be proud! Push the wig back on your forehead rather than using it to cover your face. Don't slouch (I'm sounding like your mom now huh?) You need to be confident (even if your are not, remember most confident people aren't - they have just learned to project it stronger - make that an integral part of your femme persona if its not already natural to you). Do not look embarrassed. Do not act afraid or sneaky. Meet other people square in their eyes, rather than averting your gaze, or staring at the ground. Smile pleasantly. Be strong in who you are, and be empowered by what you are doing.

Attitude regarding others: Be polite, gracious, warm and sensitive to everyone you meet when you are out. Even if they don't deserve it. Even if you have to fake it. Even if you have to force yourself to do it. All the stuff about being a "credit to your people," and being a positive example to others comes into play here. You might be the first Tgirrl that some people meet, you might be the only one they ever meet, and as unfair as it is, they will judge all or most of us Tgirrls by how they feel about you.

In this sense you are a spokesperson for all of us, and that is not to lay some heavy burden on you, but rather to empower you to be positive to all, and feel good in the new trail you are blazing for all of us. I enjoy this aspect of my life a lot, and I like to go out and spend the evening explaining and illuminating my ideas and understandings about gender variance, dressing and my life to someone who has never really encountered it before.

8. Do not forget your sense of humor

Most importantly be sure to fill your humor reservoir to the brim. It makes others feel at ease. Its not a matter of degrading yourself, or allowing yourself to become a target or the butt of jokes, but if your overall demeanor is reflecting a person who is aware of both themselves and their surroundings that will allow others to feel at ease with you. Humor is crucial to this. Your sense of humor will allow the people you deal with to acknowledge the humor that they see and feel, and that helps them to them that can be a great relief of tension.

We are taught that it is very impolite to laugh at other people, and it is. The exception occurs when we feel that a certain level of permission has been granted, like a standup comedian. So let people know it's all right to see the humor in yourself and what you are doing. They feel bad for bottling it up, and will feel much better if you in essence give them permission to release it. It is also a way to share the experience with others in a positive manner. After all, it is a little bit funny if you think about it, and if you allow people to express the humor, they might not sublimate it into other, much less positive, feelings that they are also experiencing, and which society tells them are more applicable in the situation anyway. A gentle, kind, good humor that demonstrates that you understand their initial inclination to, if not laugh out loud, at least giggle or tee-hee a little bit. Accept that it is a little bit funny, and that a little bit funny is better than weird, sick, or perverted by miles and miles, if only because humor can be more easily dealt with.

9. Start simple, start small, and try to find someone else to go with

(I put this in for my good friend, Lillyjill, who encourages people to try this route first, and who am I to differ with her, even if I do go most places by myself. I do that largely because I feel that one Tgirrl blends in better than two.)

Gender groups, like Tri-Ess, Renascence and a host of local groups have meetings in safe locations, frequently offering places to change clothes even. Many of the larger groups host weekend events like Southern Comfort, that offer a safe hotel and planned group activities. Many people begin to venture out of their house for the first time for these events, and if for not other reason they are pretty good for just providing that opportunity.

Sage GG
07-01-2006, 03:25 PM
Well I don't go out fully dressed, but dressed and rouged enough to be noticable sometimes.
Since I do I can feel in a way why my ex wanted to have a dog to accompany her on her way back home at night (she usually works until 8 pm).
Before my own "experiences" I only understood it from a men's point of view.
Marla your wife is a smart cookie, Many years ago I decided to go Christmas shopping, with three small children the only way to go was after they had gone to sleep and hubby could stay with them. I drove to the next big town and did the Santa thing and on my way back to the car two guys followed me. As I opened the car door,Leapus stood up, a black lab dobie mix and for some reason those guys left in one big hurry. She was a sweetheart but never allowed anyone to come very close to me. I'm pretty sure she got a few Christmas bones early that year.

Rena told me I should not have said that our friend was a lurker here, I just meant that she reads the threads but doesn't post here yet.

Marla S
07-01-2006, 03:34 PM
Marla your wife is a smart cookie, ...
Yep, she is ! She said since she has the dog annoyances droped almost completaly and she feels more secure.
(Having a dog - a not too small one, of course - seems to work better than pepper spray ;))

Rachel Morley
07-01-2006, 04:28 PM
In terms of places to go I have found that the brighter, the more heavily populated, the more specially open anyplace is, the better it is. I think that the safest place to be is in the middle of the big downtown shopping areas like State Street in Chicago, or 5th Ave in New York at high noon. Yes, more people will see you, and more people will notice you, but they are also much less likely to do anything about it either.

This not only true for safety reasons, but weird as it may sound, for me, I've found it to be true for getting less attention when dressed en femme. It seems the busier the venue the more successful your en femme outing will be.

Rickie
07-01-2006, 06:43 PM
I wished I had the cash to go to the place you named. So my travel will have to be close to home. And be happy with Target, Kmart, and Walmart. Oh and the goodwill.

RiversideCT
07-11-2006, 08:51 AM
I was the Girl, gulp, I should have known better. Though I'm 6 foot and could fend off attackers. I can't run in sandals. I had visions of newpaper headlines (Trans Woman rapped and murdered) going through my head before I finally got to my car.:(
It was sort of my fault that I parked in the wrong parking lot. The girls I were with were kicking themselves later that they didn't see me to my car.
I lived to learn.

Amy