It's up to US

[BethCD]

Hi all, While doing some surfing i came across this from Wikipedia:

Cross-dressing among women in modern Western societies seems to be rare. Yet the question of how many people cross-dress is difficult to answer, as it depends on social norms that change over time. When only a few women in the West wore trousers, women in trousers were considered to be cross-dressing. As more women began to wear trousers, the style gained mainstream social acceptance, and was no longer considered cross-dressing. Trousers are now in fashion for both sexes. This broadening of clothing types considered "normal" for women has made cross-dressing behavior in women more difficult to identify. A woman can even wear men's shirts, trousers, and underwear without it being considered as crossdressing, as very similar clothing items are produced for women.

No news really, we all know this, but it points out that it really IS up to us to cause change. It can be done. It will take some time tho. To all the brave gurls who go out and let it happen, thank you. We are slowly making progress!! 0.02 :D

Beth

[Billijo49504]

Hi Beth, I think if you check, WWII did more to get women in pants, than anything else. That was Rosey the Riviter, going to work in the factory, to make equiptment for the war effort.
And as my wife says, She can't understand F to M CD, cuz girl things are more fun. And I agreed with her, as I put on my new denim skirt and showed her the top I got for her....:hugs: ...BJ

[Helen MC]

I can't speak for US Society in Michigan or elsewhere, but here in the UK change is slowly coming around but still has a long, long way to go.

Regarding underwear at least as far as briefs are concerned these days there are few differences between men's and women's underpants. Both come in many colours and patterns, have a double gusset (lined crotch), no fly opening in the front and have elastic through the waist and round the leg bands. In my youth men only had plain white Y-Front briefs (jockeys) or a baggier version of boxers again white and anything else would have been considered to be women's knickers. Now underwear is almost unisex and I know couples where they share each others panties, she wears his and he wears hers depending what clean pairs are available.

As regards outer clothing, of course the Scots have always had the option to wear the kilt and some of the males in the Ethnic Communities here in Britain sometimes wear long gown type garments instead of trousers. The Utility Kilt, see the thread on this, is making an appearance and being worn by some younger males 18-30 age group but it will take a few years before it reaches general acceptance. What is needed is for some male Celeb especially a figure in Entertainment or Sports who is already popular to come out and state that he wears women's panties and even a utility kilt or some other version of skirt. If Nick Kamen could bring the horrible and then almost defunct Boxer Shorts (yeuk :thumbsdn: ) back into fashion when he was wearing them under his jeans in the Levis advert then we need an equally iconic advert etc of a well known star wearing panties and a Utility kilt or skirt to get things going and to start a fashion tide which would benefit us CDs.

[Calliope]

When I first told the wife I was crossdressing, I pointed out that she had been also 'crossdressing' since our honeymoon period (too bad, her body, as I recall, was fantastic) and since going into the computer biz (where most engineers are nerdy, often lonely men) she has slowly begun to resemble her father - plaid shirt hanging over drooping trousers, unwashed hair, etc. Luckily her devolution happened long before I came out, otherwise it might be suggested I caused it.


... WWII did more to get women in pants, than anything else. That was Rosey the Riviter, going to work in the factory, to make equiptment for the war effort.

On that note, I'm of the opinion the Vietnam War had much to do with long hair on men - an obvious symbol of repudiating readiness for battle. And that idea still burns within me as each subsequent war looks increasingly arbitrary.

Regarding the celebrity angle, remember the entertainment biz turns everything into a freak show so a fem (male) star might cause more harm than not. I do think there's grassroots power in the waiting, hopefully it will have enough dignified momentum before the inevitable celebrity appropriation.

[Joy Carter]

There is a tribe of people maybe in the New Ginny area that the males adorn themselves with flowers in their hair and do bright colored makeup to make themselves attractive to women. I read this in National geographic some years ago I'm sure it's on the web some where, or it may be coming to a CD hang out near you ! LOL :D

[JiveTurkeyOnRye]

No news really, we all know this, but it points out that it really IS up to us to cause change. It can be done. It will take some time tho. To all the brave gurls who go out and let it happen, thank you. We are slowly making progress!! 0.02 :D

Beth

Are we making progress?

Just playing Devil's advocate here and I *know* this post will cause some negative responses but I'm saying it anyway.

It could be argued that the "gurls who go out and let it happen" are not really helping men who wear women's clothes the same way that women in the 40's and 50's wearing pants did. The fact that you, and we as a group, call them "gurls" or "girls" or "tgirls" is an indication of the radical difference between the majority of dressers who post on this forum and the average GG who wears pants. Is FTM crossdressing/transgenderism really any more socially acceptable than MTF? I'm not talking about women who wear pants and present themselves as women, I'm talking about the fellas on the board one link below this one on the forum page.

[christine55]

Then dressing in a skirt would not be crossdressing anymore. I enjoy dressing and presenting myself as a girl. Wearing a male skirt would not do a whole lot for me.
Hugs, Christine

[Marla S]

Then dressing in a skirt would not be crossdressing anymore. I enjoy dressing and presenting myself as a girl. Wearing a male skirt would not do a whole lot for me.
Hugs, Christine
You are right, that's a difference, but we would better blend in and probably would get less trouble.

[myMichelle]

Then dressing in a skirt would not be crossdressing anymore. I enjoy dressing and presenting myself as a girl. Wearing a male skirt would not do a whole lot for me.
Hugs, Christine


Even if it were more "socially acceptable" for a man to wear a skirt, I'd still do it because it would still be an outlet for my all too often repressed feelings of femininity.0.02

[Sarah Rabbit]

There is nothing I would want more than be able to go out and be accepted. The difference being is that A Women would not get her Head Punched in for wearing 'Trousers' (Perhaps a few 'Choice' Names) in days gone by...However a CD'er walking into the 'Wrong' area at the 'Wrong' time can be prove to be Dangerous and possibly Fatal as Noted in the back of 'My Husband Betty' by Helen Boyd..I live in Hope but not holding my breath


Sarah R. :bunny:

[Brianna Lovely]

There is nothing I would want more than be able to go out and be accepted. The difference being is that A Women would not get her Head Punched in for wearing 'Trousers' (Perhaps a few 'Choice' Names) in days gone by...However a CD'er walking into the 'Wrong' area at the 'Wrong' time can be prove to be Dangerous and possibly Fatal as Noted in the back of 'My Husband Betty' by Helen Boyd..I live in Hope but not holding my breath

Sarah R. :bunny:

Sarah, although I agree with you, that it can be dangerous going out, in the wrong area, I think that holds true for any person, no matter how they appear, who happens to be alone. There are "straight" people mugged and beaten every day, because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as going out goes, I went to a store today wearing a denim skirt, light blue/cris-cross laced top, sandals and clear polish on my fingers and toes. Oh yes, I carried an over the sholder purse too.

I walked around the store, doing my little shoping, nail polish, lipstick etc., and passed about twenty people of all ages, no one stared or said anything to me.

The male clerk at the register did seem a little stunned, but did not say anything. I spoke in my normal voice and all went well.

[Jodi Lynn]

In the anamial world donm't forget that it is the male that is the most colorful and pretty. I agree with Christine wearing a male "skrit" wouldn't be the same, when I was going out I really enjoyed looking like a lady. And BTW Beth nice to see another Michigan girl.

[rosiegurl]

I can't speak for US Society in Michigan or elsewhere, but here in the UK change is slowly coming around but still has a long, long way to go.

Regarding underwear at least as far as briefs are concerned these days there are few differences between men's and women's underpants. Both come in many colours and patterns, have a double gusset (lined crotch), no fly opening in the front and have elastic through the waist and round the leg bands. In my youth men only had plain white Y-Front briefs (jockeys) or a baggier version of boxers again white and anything else would have been considered to be women's knickers. Now underwear is almost unisex and I know couples where they share each others panties, she wears his and he wears hers depending what clean pairs are available.

As regards outer clothing, of course the Scots have always had the option to wear the kilt and some of the males in the Ethnic Communities here in Britain sometimes wear long gown type garments instead of trousers. The Utility Kilt, see the thread on this, is making an appearance and being worn by some younger males 18-30 age group but it will take a few years before it reaches general acceptance. What is needed is for some male Celeb especially a figure in Entertainment or Sports who is already popular to come out and state that he wears women's panties and even a utility kilt or some other version of skirt. If Nick Kamen could bring the horrible and then almost defunct Boxer Shorts (yeuk :thumbsdn: ) back into fashion when he was wearing them under his jeans in the Levis advert then we need an equally iconic advert etc of a well known star wearing panties and a Utility kilt or skirt to get things going and to start a fashion tide which would benefit us CDs.


didn't david becham do this a few years ago, got caught on camera wearing a wrap skirt on holiday, and all the papers ripped into him *grins*

[Danielle2]

There are probably many more cross dressers that we will ever know. Most do not reveal themselves. I would guess we have the numbers to effect political and social change by merely obtaining the nerve to reveal ourselves. If enough of us would to this, we could demand acceptance. When the public sees something on a daily basis, it becomes the normal and does not cause any concern.

Let's go girls

[Sarah Rabbit]

Sarah, although I agree with you, that it can be dangerous going out, in the wrong area, I think that holds true for any person, no matter how they appear, who happens to be alone. There are "straight" people mugged and beaten every day, because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as going out goes, I went to a store today wearing a denim skirt, light blue/cris-cross laced top, sandals and clear polish on my fingers and toes. Oh yes, I carried an over the sholder purse too.

I walked around the store, doing my little shoping, nail polish, lipstick etc., and passed about twenty people of all ages, no one stared or said anything to me.

The male clerk at the register did seem a little stunned, but did not say anything. I spoke in my normal voice and all went well.

Hi Brianna
Yes anyone can be 'Mugged' for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, however they probably steal whatever after a little 'Rough' up. But when a CD'er.Gay TS. TG are targeted, the attack will be 'Hate' driven and may not stop until real 'Harm' or worse is inflicted. Besides I fight better when Not wearing High Heels.LOL. If we were able to go out in mainstream society without serious repercussions, I would be out in front of the group(Even if I don't Pass well)

Hugs, Sarah R. :bunny:

[stephanie100]

didn't david becham do this a few years ago, got caught on camera wearing a wrap skirt on holiday, and all the papers ripped into him *grins*
As did mick jagger, Boy George, and I think David Bowie. Maybe several others.
Steph:hugs:

[Eugenie]

Then dressing in a skirt would not be crossdressing anymore. I enjoy dressing and presenting myself as a girl. Wearing a male skirt would not do a whole lot for me.
Hugs, Christine

Indeed Christine,

Our x-dressing experience depends a lot upon some stereotypes of womanhood : wearing markedly feminine clothes and exhibiting visible signs of what is traditionaly attributed to women. This by the way explains some negative reactions of feminist lobbies against x-dressing.

If x-dressing was just looking for the feeling of nice material, there are plenty of men clothes and underwear which are now available that would satisfy this requirement. But it is more than that, isn't it? It is the feminity most of us are looking for. And that feminity depends on social codes : clothes, shoes, makeup, general body features, etc.

Note that even though women can now wear pants, these pants remain very feminine for most of them... Even the jeans...

What I would like is a society where difference is accepted, not eliminated. A society where one could express his/her choices of life without being subject to harassment.
:hugs:
Eugenie