Coming out to a friend at work

[fionasboots]

I almost did this yesterday - well I'll go one further, I did but my friend was too busy to pick up entirely on the IM conversation we had!

Having been married for a while I don't have many (if any) female friends (this seems to be a general trend among my male friends, married=no more female friends) but I get on really well with a coworker who I've probably known for 6months or so now, for the sake of discussion we'll call her "S".

I've chatted with S and the other girl in out office quite alot and we all get on really well and we have all joked before that, in terms of gossip, nattering, etc I'm really one of the 'girls' as well (this is not an aspiration I have it's a fact, I'm a terrible gossip :D ).

We also shared some whinging/fears/hopes/etc and I'm one of the few people that know S has a boyfriend (this is a 'secret' in work, she likes to keep work/personal seperate for various reasons).

Anyway, we seem to get on (I get on with most people to be fair) and I regard S as pretty reliable, liberal-minded, fun, kind, etc.

The conversation we had yesterday started with an innocent comment about giving a presentation - I said S shouldn't be worried and should picture everyone in their underwear, then I suggested picturing us in other peoples underwear (the presentation was to everyone in the office - I know we're really lazy for IMing across a small office!).

It got to the point where we were jokingly suggesting an outfit I could wear - pink boots, pink outfit, pink bow in my hair etc. At which point I asked about size 10 boots and then said I'd need size 14-16 dress size (S suggested that I was really a 12 - quite sweet thing to say ... shame it's not true) and when asked how I knew this I said that was for me to know and her to find out!

Since S was (as always) busy in the office things kind of stopped at that point in the conversation and nothing else has been said on the topic.

I really felt like I wanted her to ask more and for her to really guess the truth. I sent her the link to the "Joe gets female" video that's been discussed on another thread here so I think I gave plenty of clues!

Probably get to chat more today, question is will she guess, if she does do I send her a link to my Yahoo 360 page? A link to here? Even a link to this thread? Or is this just a bad idea?

I can see that friend/coworker could be an issue though I would think she can keep a secret. It would be REALLY nice to actually tell someone 'real' about my CDing. I have got lots of advice/support/help from everyone on the forum here but, as I'm sure you'll all agree having a close (in terms of friendship, geography, and timezone) friend to confide in makes alot of difference.

Oh, and I blame every one of you for getting me to this point where I want, and might even be able, to tell someone the truth about my CDing - so it's all YOUR fault :tongueout

[Angie G]

I don't think at work is a good idea problem may come up.
Angie G.

[Shelly Preston]

I would be extremely careful

She might be seeing this as a bit of friendly fun. I hope if you decide to telll her more you can really trust her. You could be causing yourself problems later. she may also have worked it out, but without knowing her I cant tell.

Dont go too fast too soon especially as she has a bf.
She may be albe to keep your secret but if not once your out there is no going back.
Take care

[fionasboots]

I would be extremely careful

She might be seeing this as a bit of friendly fun. I hope if you decide to telll her more you can really trust her. You could be causing yourself problems later. she may also have worked it out, but without knowing her I cant tell.

Dont go too fast too soon especially as she has a bf.
She may be albe to keep your secret but if not once your out there is no going back.
Take care

I probably should make it clear that I'm not expecting anything more than friendship from S, not that she isn't fanciable, she is, and I've told her that to her face!

So don't get the idea that I'm trying to build somebody up to take me if/when I fall by coming out to my wife - this thought has obviously crossed my mind (if things go nasty etc) but this is not my intention here.

I simply want to be able to tell a real friend and have someone else know that I can talk to. I feel that this is a possible step on the road to coming out completely. This desire to tell is really quite strong as well.

[Sharon]

"S" is a gossip, right? Isn't that what you said? Be careful if you don't want to be the latest victim of water cooler talk.

[fionasboots]

"S" is a gossip, right? Isn't that what you said? Be careful if you don't want to be the latest victim of water cooler talk.

Well, actually I said I was a gossip, not her. In fact I think I rate much higher than most women when it comes to gossip - although I should point out my definition of gossip doesn't necassarily imply that I go round spreading rumours and private information about people.

I would say S has, in the past been more free with information about herself and her problems rather than volunteering gossip about other people.

Oh, and we don't have a water cooler - the office isn't that big ... there's a kind of cold water thing on the work-top (=counter for you Americans) in the corner of the kitchen, does that count? :rolleyes:

I take everyone's point about the risks, and appreciate the advice but does anyone have anything positive to say about coming out to work friends (I make the distinction here between someone you count as a friend and not just a coworker, that's a different matter)?

[Calliope]

I would be prepared to be out at work when telling even one work pal, however trusted. Everyone has people they trust. Also, I'd skip the hints, that's a lot like poetry, if you're ready to say it say it - words face to face are the basic building block of communication.

[Lisa Golightly]

I once came out to two lesbians when I was in my corporate incarnation... One I knew before she was employed by me, the other was on Testosterone shots in accounts. One was shocked as she thought I was gay, the other was intrigued...

Truth is a gift to the world... You can not hide the truth once spoken. Only tell her if you are happy for more to know.

I remember when I first revealed Lisa to someone... Blimey, it was like starting a bushfire... lol... :)

[Stephenie S]

Dear Girls,

I can share what has been going on at my workplace.

I have been getting a bit of flack recently about my growing out my hair, taking care of my fingernails, my more feminine walk and hand gesturing, and carrying a bag which some are calling a purse.

For several years I have been maintaining my "Mr Macho" image at work, but I am now letting it go. When questioned, I take the time to speak honestly and directly to the person. I simply say I am exploring my feminine side. If the person seems interested and asks more questions, I explain that I have always felt my macho image was a facade and I am trying to be more "myself". I try always to be short and sweet, not going into too much detail. (it is, after all, work, and we can't spend too much time chatting)

I do sometimes say, "I am not gay", if I feel the person I am talking to is getting that impression. And I sort of let the other person guide the conversation. If they ask more questions, I try and answer them honestly and directly, without "hinting arround". Most people so far have been satisfied with my "exploring my feminine side" explanation. Some just laugh and say, "yea, right", several have said "good for you", some have said "It's a rare man who can admit he isn't all macho".

So I am getting different reactions from different people, but most seem to be fairly relaxed. I hope, hope, hope I do not run afoul of any rabid homophobes, although I am stating that I am not gay and that I am enjoying a close and loving relationship with my wife. Several co-workers know my wife and know we are close.

In general, I am trying to take this whole thing slowly, with truth and honesty being my guide. It is a bit scary, and I sometimes catch my voice breaking as I talk, but it all seems to be going pretty well. We shall see.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[fionasboots]

Okay, thanks for all of the valuable advice that I completely ignored! Sorry!

I've just had a very long conversation (over IM) with S having streered the conversation back to getting dressed up and then having sent her a picture of me with make-up/wig etc.

Now there are the obvious provisos that she may gossip this information around or someone may find out by accident or all this things that could go wrong, but ...

... for the moment it seemed to go even better than I could have hoped. Turns out S has come across CDing before, even so far as having a boyfriend who use to borrow her clothes.

So basically she knows everything now ... and even said I looked really nice in the pictures I sent ... now that *REALLY* made my day :D

I actually felt very very nervous while starting the conversation then sort of slightly disappointed that it wasn't as much of a shock to her and now I think I actually feel really happy, and priviledged, that I could share my "secret" with someone at long last.

So, I blamed you all before for getting me into this position of wanting to confide in someone, I'll change that to a tentative thanks .... which I'll change back to blame if something goes wrong :tongueout

I said "thanks" to S for understanding and being supportive. The same thanks go out to everyone on this forum that have been supportive and encouraging, which basically means all of you :love:

So one small step for Fiona, one giant leap ... no hold on, can't leap in heels :rolleyes:

[GG Vanya]

Ummm, all this was transacted on your company computers? I've seen quite a few warnings here about being outted by using company systems and the fact that your IT personnel can access any and every thing you do on them.

Also, Fiona, I find it sad that you didn't feel you could come out to your wife before coming out to a co-worker. :worried: Who better than your life partner to have your best interest at heart, and be trustworthy with your 'secret'. What's keeping you from sharing with your wife? other than the usual fears, of course.

[fionasboots]

Vanya, only joking about "hating" sensible people bit in the title - I do value your opinion and the advice you have given before on other threads I've posted.


Ummm, all this was transacted on your company computers? I've seen quite a few warnings here about being outted by using company systems and the fact that your IT personnel can access any and every thing you do on them.


Okay, I would conceed there is a small risk here. However the two computers (laptops) generally don't get much interference from the IT bods, the firewall does not log IM traffic (web pages yes, IM no). Also there is alot more offensive junk flying around than what I've simply talked about.

I am somewhat relying on the goodwill of the company here I suppose but there is no indication that any conversations over IM have ever been used against anyone and I would guess that the things I discussed would fall well within discrimination if they took any action - which I doubt they would unless I let my personal life affect my work, which I don't.



Also, Fiona, I find it sad that you didn't feel you could come out to your wife before coming out to a co-worker.


I consider this particular coworker to be a friend, and have done before any thoughts of coming out to her. I have seen her outside of work (beat her at badminton several times ... hope she doesn't read this she'll probably beat me up). So "coworker" is maybe an unfair label in the circumstances if used in isolation.



:worried: Who better than your life partner to have your best interest at heart, and be trustworthy with your 'secret'. What's keeping you from sharing with your wife? other than the usual fears, of course.

My reasoning is this (and I'll understand if you don't agree with me): I have no support at all with the CDing apart from this forum I have no friends that know and none that I can turn to for immediate advice/help/support/crisis talks. This is something I feel I need.

If timing had been better I would have confided in a long-term friend from school who I know would have been just as understanding and then things would be different.

My wife is gradually guessing things and I do intend to confess all at some point but this has got to be a slow process for the reasons I've already discussed in other threads.

I should probably say that my wife is coping better than I thought with the things she is guessing (I can't believe I'm really *that* good a liar so she must know something is going on). Also we seem to be getting on better generally - the working away is now at an end for a while and we're going on holiday and I have also booked a long weekend away for our anniversary, and I'm not doing these things out of guilt, I am actually looking forward to them.

So I think that the things I've said before about coming out to my wife are now less pertinent and I'm more optimistic about life - both 'normal' (with my wife and son), CDing, and mixing all these together somehow.

I knew S would take my CDing without too much problem, okay there was a risk but I felt it was a small one and worth taking. As I said, it turns out that S has absolutely no problem with the whole CDing thing and has been very supportive so far - this is what I needed.

I agree that I *should* be able to tell my wife first I believe the circumstances are such that I can't just come out with it yet.

Maybe as I've said before getting this out in the open may eventually be the thing that brings us much closer together, I really have no other big secrets (I'm kinda boring without the CDing thing really, it's quite sad :rolleyes: )

So like I said at the beginning of this essay, I do value any opinion given here, and I certainly respect and hopefully understand what you say Vanya.

If you feel I am wrong here then tell me (I'm sure you will) and I will happily listen to anything you or anyone has to say. I reserve the right to ignore you even if what you say is absolutely correct ... you can always use me as a bad example in that case!

[Siobhan Marie]

I have come out to a few people at work, one of whom is a pre-op transsexual and they have assured me that they won't tell a soul as its my business who I tell.

:hugs: Anna x

[GG Vanya]

If you feel I am wrong here then tell me (I'm sure you will) and I will happily listen to anything you or anyone has to say. I reserve the right to ignore you even if what you say is absolutely correct ... you can always use me as a bad example in that case!
__________________

No one is wrong Fiona, if they are honestly expressing their feelings from the heart. My post was not a condemnation, please don't think that.

You seem to have a good heart as evidenced by your response to my post in your thread over in the lounge. :D

I just find it sad that so many CD's here can't be "made whole" by coming out to their life partner. I'll also be the first to admit, I can't really grasp the concept, given the fact that I knew from the get-go about Trudi.

Acceptance of the entire person is the corner stone of relationships. I just wish more of you could obtain that acceptance in the most important relationship of your life.

BTW, I took a peek at your pics on 360....*nicely* put together I'd say!

[fionasboots]

No one is wrong Fiona, if they are honestly expressing their feelings from the heart. My post was not a condemnation, please don't think that.


Don't worry I didn't think that at all.



You seem to have a good heart as evidenced by your response to my post in your thread over in the lounge. :D

I just find it sad that so many CD's here can't be "made whole" by coming out to their life partner. I'll also be the first to admit, I can't really grasp the concept, given the fact that I knew from the get-go about Trudi.


I can quite understand that and I'm glad for you both that things worked out that way for you. I really am genuinely jealous of CDs and SOs that can be completely open from the outset.

Such is life though, I can't really complain (well okay, maybe I can but only to start threads about it here :D ) that I'm not in the same position it's just one of those things. Hopefully it will all work out in the end :D



Acceptance of the entire person is the corner stone of relationships. I just wish more of you could obtain that acceptance in the most important relationship of your life.


I would agree, I think I mentioned in another thread that, based on my situation and would really encourage anyone to be as open and honest with a partner as early as is possible.

When all said and done, life is short, it's best to enjoy what you've got and who you are as much as you possibly can. And in the case of CDing that can only really be achieved with acceptance of the ones you love or are close to.



BTW, I took a peek at your pics on 360....*nicely* put together I'd say!

Hmm, I'm really enjoying all this flattery (no, don't stop, keep it coming) but natural self doubt is kicking in and I wonder if you are all maybe just being kind!

[tekla west]

Everyone here talks about doing it slow, taking baby steps and all. So this is her first step. If the coworker didn't like it, she is not out much. Perhaps its just a prelude to telling her SO. Perhaps not. I don't know her SO, so I don't know how she would react. But coming out is coming out, not matter to who, or why. Little steps first, right?

Lisa is dead on right here. Truth is a gift. You give it to those who might like it. Why waste it?

I'm glad for you girl. It was brave. Any company who would fire you for the underwear you have on is not worth working for anyway. So good going. Keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know and all.

And I think you did the right thing. Not that you need my permission or anything. And don't pay attention to that "well if you used the computer they will know stuff." That is paranoid. Sure paranoids have real enemies, but yeesh, who cares? There are lots of places to work, but only one life to life are you given. So live it. Peace be unto you. You help all of us be closer to who we really are. In that dear, you have archived greatness.

[GG Vanya]

Is one paranoic if one tends to be paranoid about paranoia?

I enjoyed the exchange of thoughts and ideas between the two of us Fiona, and thought it quite refreshing that we could do so without either of us becoming uncivil or hostile.

Obviously another newcomer has drawn a bead on me. Oh well. This too shall pass. <big ole sweet southern smile>

[tekla west]

Why bring up things for people to worry about for people who tend to worry way too much about what others think anyway? As it turns out, as one siggy here says, the people who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. Jobs, like the paychecks they give out, are a dime a dozen. The next one can only be better. If they care. If they check, and most don't, unless you are stealing from them.

[fionasboots]

Everyone here talks about doing it slow, taking baby steps and all. So this is her first step. If the coworker didn't like it, she is not out much. Perhaps its just a prelude to telling her SO. Perhaps not. I don't know her SO, so I don't know how she would react. But coming out is coming out, not matter to who, or why. Little steps first, right?


Have these little steps got anything to do with wearing tight skirts and high heels? I fall over if I make big steps in such an outfit :lol:

Yes, I think that would sum things up, this is one step among many and was intended to be an easy step. Joining this forum was probably one of the first steps since this is relatively low risk as well.



Lisa is dead on right here. Truth is a gift. You give it to those who might like it. Why waste it?

I'm glad for you girl. It was brave. Any company who would fire you for the underwear you have on is not worth working for anyway. So good going. Keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know and all.


I have the, maybe naive, view that IT in general can often be a fairly tolerant industry; when people just have to sit behind a computer all day it is really irrelevant what you wear at all.

The companies I tend to work for (and I think I have been very lucky to find them) are generally small/medium and usually fairly friendly places. I probably would not get hired by any cut-throat, high-powered companies since I would not fit well into that environment.



And I think you did the right thing. Not that you need my permission or anything. And don't pay attention to that "well if you used the computer they will know stuff." That is paranoid. Sure paranoids have real enemies, but yeesh, who cares? There are lots of places to work, but only one life to life are you given. So live it. Peace be unto you. You help all of us be closer to who we really are. In that dear, you have archived greatness.

Thanks for the support Tekla, it's much appreciated.

I think the note of paranoia may be over the top but on the other hand I guess there have been cases where it has landed people in trouble.

Also I pride myself on knowing what is risking with computers, network security etc, trust me I know about this sort of stuff ... by they do say pride goeth before a fall!

So it is probably better that anyone on this forum that has warnings like that to give should say something - I guess alot of people don't even appreciate the possibilities for trouble when using works computers and they may not be in such a nice working environment.

Oh, and I don't want to give up this job! It's fantastic! I get to 'play' with computers all day and travel and stuff! Nah, I'm holding onto this one :D

[fionasboots]

Is one paranoic if one tends to be paranoid about paranoia?


I always like the quote: "Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you" :lol:



I enjoyed the exchange of thoughts and ideas between the two of us Fiona, and thought it quite refreshing that we could do so without either of us becoming uncivil or hostile.


I don't do uncivil or hostile, it's not in my nature and just wastes time, effort, energy. Life's too short.



Obviously another newcomer has drawn a bead on me. Oh well. This too shall pass. <big ole sweet southern smile>

Yep, it's hard to stay mad at a computer screen for long :p

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Fiona

Glad everything is going so well I hope it continues like that in the future.
Best wishes

[Bev06 GG]

I probably should make it clear that I'm not expecting anything more than friendship from S, not that she isn't fanciable, she is, and I've told her that to her face!

So don't get the idea that I'm trying to build somebody up to take me if/when I fall by coming out to my wife - this thought has obviously crossed my mind (if things go nasty etc) but this is not my intention here.

Aww Fiona,
be careful. For a start its abit dangerous telling someone else that you find them fanciable it can unintentionally start all sorts of things off, and Im abit confused as to why you would want to tell this woman before your wife. I have to say I'd be gutted if I was the second woman to find out about my fellas crossdressing. Infact, It would break my heart.
Take care
BEVxxxx

[tekla west]

No problem, support is my racket and awe heck, what would I know from computers, I only got in on this net deal back in the mid 80s when we would use acoustic couplers to get our little Trash 80s on the Whole Earth Lectronic Link and type in Dead set lists in DOS. I'm so new we did not even know the net word, we thought the world was the WELL.

And I use an Apple iBook, being a pirate where ever I can get a signal. No tracks, no traces, no problems.

And in SF we have a few computer companies in the area, just Apple, HP, Intel, Google, Yahoo, nothing big or anything. Though one of my old students in Iowa invented some do-dad or another to play music on the computer, called it something like, Win-Amp. So.... If you are good at IT, you get to keep your job no matter who or what you are, such is my experience. If you are really weird, but good, you get to move to the big companies, and if you are really good, and really weird you get to move to this place south of here, Silicon Valley I think they call it.

Anyway, point being, if you are good at what you do, it tends not to matter who or what you are. Many of the TG grrls I know here are IT types. And - strange though it may seem - I'm not the only one doing theatre/rock and roll here in SF. (shocking I'm sure). Nor was I alone in academia, just miserable.

People who work in crappy environments deserve what they get. We have a country song in the USA about "take this job and shove it". Not a bad attitude. But like I said, I don't know of anyone in my real life who is getting their mail read, or keystrokes audited, or nonsense like that. I know it happens, but most people are above the level it happens at. Or they didn't work hard enough to get to a place where that does not happen.

I just hate to see people get all bent out of shape about things that might, perhaps, happen. Too much reality to worry about to spend time on mights. After all, the earth might tip off its axis and go careening through the solar system bouncing off of other planets. But why worry about that when the greater reality is that we will die in a big pile of our own waste and garbage long before that moment, and that only if the morons we have in power all over the world don't start a nuclear war first. So I tend to worry about an untreated alcoholic who believes in the rapture named Bush and Kim il Ding-Dong in N. Korea before I worry*about the earth moving. But I worry more about waste, and catastrophic climate change even more than I sweat the Nuke Nuts.

The upside, is that our problems don't seem so big in that context.