"Lost art?"

[Kate Simmons]

I've been doing more thinking lately (which I know is "dangerous") but I'm getting the distinct impression that what we are doing is nothing new. Oh, I know there have been "famous" TG people and CD's in history but I think there is really more to it when you think about it. I mean, look at how many of us are on the forum and the numbers are growing every day. Call it racial memory, call it instinct, call it what you will but it is anything but coincidence. I think we are practicing a "lost art"(and life style) from antiquity. There may have been more of a "ritual" aspect to it in the past but when you think about it, we each have our own little "rituals" we do privately when we CD. Not a "secret society" per se but almost like being a "craftsman (craftswoman)" which you work at to become a "master(mistress)". Crazy thinking maybe but that's a "given" with me anyway. Like any "craftsperson" we mainly learn by being in the "field" and learn to compensate and adapt that way. Seems to be some kind of pattern anyway. It's not random for sure.The big difference is we do this because we simply enjoy it and not to earn a living. Take care, Love, Ericka

[tekla west]

Perhaps, I think there are more all the time because:
a) the net has made it eaiser to find others,
b) its more OK all the time due to more people out and about,
c) There is more information about TG issues which has made more people aware.

[AnnaMaria]

Erika,

Actually you are right about history. I have found several instances in my research to positivly prove that at many times during history the tg community was held in very high reguard. But you don't have to reach back more than a couple of hundred years to find such evidence. The American Indians were the most recent group to respect and welcome the tg community into their ranks. They believed that to be a Two Spirit was to be blessed be the Great Spirit. There is also substantial evidence to indicate that the pre-christian roman world freely accepted the tg community and even had them as priestesses in their most powerful religion of the day. But in both cases the respect was stamped out by the church. Could it be a genetic memory? I don't know but I do know that I have lately been drawn to these types of information for some reason and the more I search the more I find about the subject.

Anna

[Calliope]

I think we are practicing a "lost art"(and life style) from antiquity.

That's a pretty interesting idea, maybe there's the memory of a unified human - pre-'rib' if you will.



The big difference is we do this because we simply enjoy it and not to earn a living.

Which I think is pretty important. Other than the 'blogging' craze, most people right now are economic beings.

[Teresa Amina]

most people right now are economic beings.

The tragedy of our age in 7 words! "Money money money and to hell with the rest" could be the motto of Globalisation.

[JoAnnDallas]

You only have to look at nature. In any other animal other than humans, look at the male. He is more colorful than the female. The female is usually very drab. Also it is the male that is more expressive than the female. The female is usually very subdude. In birds it is usually the male that sits on the eggs most of the time.

[tekla west]

Just a historical and cultural note.

a) Indians are from India. Columbus was wrong, no need for all of us to follow. The preferred term is "native americans." Though most don't even like that. They prefer to be recognized as members of the nation they belong to, so they are the Lakota people, the Lakota nation.

b) To use the term American Indians like they were all one thing is misleading. There were many nations, many cultures. Lumping them all together as one is something the European Imperialists, and early Americans did in order to make them easier to slaughter - making them "the other" without regard to tribe or culture. ALL did not do the "two-spirit" deal, only a few did - at that they tended to be be tribes and nations in the Southwest. There were no "two-spirit" members of the Huron Nation, or the Iroquois people. To lump them together is like saying "Europeans all..." or "All Africans..." (or more to the point, "Whites are all..." "All blacks ...") you get the picture.

[unclejoann]

I heard the term "Muslim menace" the other day on television. That is a "all them" kind of statement. Yet I have Muslim buddy in Tunisia who loves sex with crossdressers. So, maybe "all Muslims" is appropriate after all, he would certainly say "F**k Americans"

[sparks]

A lost form of art! And it's not even abstract. I found a wonderful website a long time ago with black and white photos of Tg's from the past. Most were old cabaret type performers and such. It looked like a high school year book. Really cool!

[Marla S]

I think we are practicing a "lost art"(and life style) from antiquity.

I would see it less romantic.
Given that there is an inborn range of gender identity (and it ever has been this way) our status in a society only depends on the society or its cultural background respectively.

The fact that we are seen as freaks/perverts in our western culture is rooted in the christian background of our culture. Bible and churches have clearly separated male and female roles. Because the most obvious criteria to distiguish is the biological gender, everybody is bound to this classification. Those who try to get more freedom have to struggle.

The Greek culture obviously didn't have this strict separation, but turned the issue to another extrem. Hermaphrodites (again the "obvious biological gender") were deified. This made them freaks too, but in a positive way. (Just imagine you would have to live in a temple instead of the closet. Don't know if this is any better.)

So, I don't think it is a lost art, but something given by nature that sometimes fits better, sometimes less into a cultural background, but always is something special.

[Kimberly]

But in both cases the respect was stamped out by the church.
Religion is always a negative controlling factor.

That isn't even my opinion - it's proven fact.

(I'm not attacking anyone's personal beliefs - because these a fundamentals. It is religion as an entity, however, that has controlled society and it's values since Catholicism.)

[CarmenG]

it all started as "ONE", then it just grew from there.... in the Roman times the men played the parts of females... hey that was cool then. and who knows how far back it started. don't mean a thing.......
Religion has all of us screwed up. they all formed because of a difference of opinion and it is society that puts all these restrictions on who we can and can not be..... as part of the baby boomer generation, we demanded change, no it's here and we can not cope...... i always say," My freedom ends where your nose begins". you do your thing i do mine we both do together to advance our communities and people..... whom ever they may be...

[Teresa Amina]

The preferred term is "native americans." Though most don't even like that. They prefer to be recognized as members of the nation they belong to.

In Canada I believe the tribes are called First Nations, much better than Native Canadians, eh? I'm always been annoyed by that Native American label since Native merely refers to where you were born, not your ethnicity. While I am some small part Ojibwa I'm mostly of European (and British at that) blood but it would be nice to be considered native to something. Being CD/TG is alienating enough, don't you think?

[tekla west]

Ahh, the words of Col. John M. Chivington (an ordained Methodist minister no less) on the eve of the Sand Creek Massacre where the collected women and children of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe Nations were killed while under a white flag of surrender, told his troops to kill everyone, reminding them - because many of them balked at killing children and babies - "kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice." Nice guy. There were six people put on trial for this - no, not the the Rev. Col. Chivington - the six who refused to participate in the massacre.

[Kate Simmons]

You only have to look at nature. In any other animal other than humans, look at the male. He is more colorful than the female. The female is usually very drab. Also it is the male that is more expressive than the female. The female is usually very subdude. In birds it is usually the male that sits on the eggs most of the time.
Interesting point JoAnn. Are we in actuality protecting the younglings and nests by luring would be predators away from our families? Something to think about. Ericka

[Kate Simmons]

If Karma does indeed exist, wouldn't it be nice if the "good" reverand came back as a woman who was in subjection to a harsh demanding husband? Ericka

[Marla S]

You only have to look at nature. In any other animal other than humans, look at the male. He is more colorful than the female. The female is usually very drab. Also it is the male that is more expressive than the female. The female is usually very subdude. In birds it is usually the male that sits on the eggs most of the time.

Sorry but that's true only in the minority of cases and it is always questionable to generalize this and humanize animals.

Take the birds. If the male is the more eye-catching, you can bet that he doesn't breed. That would by far be to dangerous for the eggs and fledgling as they not only attract female birds, but enemies too. The female birds are unobtrusive just to prevent this. For quite a few birds the genders are absolute identical and their gender can only be determined by DNA tests.

For mammals the male is usually stronger and bigger than the female (just as with humans). The horns of a deer or the mane of a lion are rather comparable to a red ferrari or a gun than to high heels.

For insects and spiders the male is usually smaller and weaker. In case of the spiders the male often gets eaten by the female.

[tekla west]

why humanize animals? I mean, why lower them that way?

[Rikkicn]

I consider my self a spiritual being and I also believe I am as I was intended to be. To dismiss my tgness and try to fit in with what society expects of people with penis's would mean to live against the Divine will.
I'm here for a purpose and living my life as the fullest expression of being a woman is an important to my spiritual progress and attainment.
I realize living this life comes with many complications, burdens and obstacles and I accept that (even though is important to work for change) and cherish what these have taught me.

Better than being mundane don't you think? What a gift we're given if we can come to see it that way and if we can set aside our fears.

Love, Love, Love,
Rikki

[tekla west]

Spiders heck, I could fill a room full of men who have been "eaten alive" by the female of the spicies.

[unclejoann]

Looking way back in history to the Greeks and Romans is not far enough. You have to go back 10,000 years not 2,000. Back then there apparently was goddess worship and a male/female partnership culture instead of the divinely inspired male dominant militaristic culture we enjoy today.