Sigh - another school CD day canceled

[DanaJ]

It happened again, this time in Illinois - "Opposite Sex Day" canceled:

http://tinyurl.com/4cxj3

DanaJ

[Laura Jane]

It happened again, this time in Illinois - "Opposite Sex Day" canceled:

http://tinyurl.com/4cxj3

DanaJ

DanaJ, While I hope any Older Teens or Adults should be able to express their personality through 'dress' or fashion, or indeed examine gender 'roles', I hardly think Elementary School should be holding such days. A bit of role playing in Drama is one thing, getting a whole school to Cross Dress is another.

The website of course is going 'overboard' on it .

[DanaJ]

This is completely voluntary, no one need do it if they do not wish. Here is a quote:

"The school employee, who requested anonymity, said many students did not dress in opposite sex attire, but added that school administrators asked students to bring in a canned good for charity if they chose not to cross-dress."

DanaJ

[Sharon]

All I know is that I wish they had this at my old school!
These traditions have been around for years. Why now all of a sudden are they coming under attack? Is the country so afraid of the religious right all of a sudden? Why is the fear of one or two parents enough to eliminate something that is nothing but a day of fun for students?

[DanaJ]

That's a good point Sharon - if this stuff has been done foe years in good fun, why now is it so worrisome?

BTW, LOVE your new avatar! :)

DanaJ

[Chrissycd]

is more here to be concerned about though. For example: The disruption a cd day would cause at an elementary, or any level of school is another concern. How much learning would take place that day? Many kid's minds are not open enough to learn the things we would hope on such a day.
Personally, I think it would be fantastic in many ways, but, don't know how realistic it is.
Others would also be very afraid for the kids who really celebrate it as opposed to those who don't, and the resulting bullying etc. that some would suffer at the hands of others, later. Of course, the ironic thing is that bullies often are the kids who are the least secure with themselves. Seeing others crossdressing would either bring out even worse behavior (violence), or, best case, open their minds up a bit. I'm afraid that the latter reaction is rather unlikely, especially when many parents are just as intolerant as their kids, if not more.
Others will argue that kids need to be protected, bottom line. Are kids the right "vehicle" for such agendas?
This is a tough one.
Still, others would argue the damage being done already by NOT recognizing such differences between people is immense. How can anyone argue against that? All I can say is I'm glad I'm not the principal at that school. Talk about no win situations!!! :confused:

[Felicity]

This is completely voluntary, no one need do it if they do not wish. Here is a quote:

"The school employee, who requested anonymity, said many students did not dress in opposite sex attire, but added that school administrators asked students to bring in a canned good for charity if they chose not to cross-dress."

DanaJ
It's not voluntary when they are requested to bring something of value in if they choose not to participate.

What is the message? "If you don't want to provide to a charity, crossdress," or is it "pay a price if you don't crossdress?"

Some of these are harmless, but some are not. There are activist groups attempting to put agenda's in the schools that don't belong.

[Nikki A.]

As a parent I'm not sure how I would feel about having a day like this. Onone hand it would expose kids to what it is like to dress like the opposite sex(walk a mile in their heels). But on the other hand with the violence and intolerence of some it could be dangerous for those who participate, just ask Jenny. Personally, at that age I don't know if I would have participated(was in denial). Now I would welcome it and go whole hog. Hell if I could everyday would have been CD day.

[StephanieCD]

This kind of shit makes me so angry. Closed minds pollute the world.

When I was in High School (in a very intolerant one at that) I wore a long Indian skirt like the one below to school just to prove a point. I was comfortable as hell and dressed entirely as a guy otherwise; boots, black baggy sweatshirt, goatee and all - goth freak musician artist guy, that was me. People asked why and I replied "because it's unbelievably more comfortable, to prove a point, and to **** with your head" or some such. Then, I'd make out with my girlfriend ;)

Really though, to find schools that would do things like this are a blessing and the closed minded schmucks that pull their kids are doing society a favor by reducing the chances that their seed could co-mingle with that of a forward-thinking individual.

Sorry, did I just sound angry? I had such bad school experiences ('cept for the small private school that saved me) that I get really passionate about it. I wonder why... ;)

http://www.pardesifashions.com/Regionals/images%5CL001.gif

[StephanieCD]

I believe the day was part of a spirit week theme. We have them often around here... "crazy hair day" - "favorite actor day" - "red white and blue day" - "opposite sex day" and so on...

[Felicity]

I agree closed minds pollute the world, but until things are better, we should not be willing participants in what may be someone else’s agenda. Tolerance takes longer when it is forced. Besides, children are not ready to deal with the world as adults are, and many of us adults don't deal with the world well either!

Any student body wanting to do such a thing... And it should be the student bodys decision, not an adults, should do it as a costume day or something and then those who wish to crossdress can.

[StephanieCD]

I've participated in several theme weeks in school and such, including one opposite sex day - but they called it something else - it's completely optional and tons of fun. And the days were picked by the student body, too. I remember lots of girls dressed as business men and for some reason there were a lot of mobsters. I'll admit less people participated in that day than silly hair day but still - adults put the taboo in things, kids just have fun.

I don't know - not that big a deal but, to me - if the grown ups wouldn't get their knickers in a bunch about what means this and what means that then perhaps children would grow up without these frickin' stigmas and prejudices built into their way of thinking - anxiety breeds anxiety, ya know?

[Alayna]

Unfortunately, things will get much worse before they get better. Not just for us, but for gays, ethnic minorities, etc. Our country has been going through a huge wave of conservatism and "morality" that has to pass. There's no way to stop it, we just have to brace ourselves and let it run its course, helping to guide it along the way. History repeats itself - once this passes we'll be in a new era for civil, social, and personal rights. That much I feel confident about, but it may take a very long time and come at a huge cost.

[Felicity]

Unfortunately, things will get much worse before they get better. Not just for us, but for gays, ethnic minorities, etc. Our country has been going through a huge wave of conservatism and "morality" that has to pass.

First of all, never ask that morality pass.

I don’t think things were any better, and disagree they are getting worse. In my view, the activists are crossing lines that are causing the normally silent people to react. I have labeled myself as both a libertarian and a conservative on this site. I have various views of both ideals. I believe the so called ‘moral uproar’ is triggered by actions like what PETA has recently done to a restaurant in my community. I’ll get into some details if asked, but this group has defiantly gone from protection of animals to a group that unethically treats their fellow citizens. Just one example of that is triggering the now vocal people with a different set of values.

One thing I see, is no matter how much ground various minority groups achieve, they never stop and demand more. It has actually come to the point that a strait white male suddenly becomes target for lawyers who see a paycheck, and people like me have had it! This has to stop!


There's no way to stop it, we just have to brace ourselves and let it run its course, helping to guide it along the way.

I disagree. Become vocal yourself, not in a pushy way with your issues, but also in defiance of what other people push when they are wrong, or going too far. Just try to stay respectful in your arguments.


History repeats itself - once this passes we'll be in a new era for civil, social, and personal rights. That much I feel confident about, but it may take a very long time and come at a huge cost.

Your statement for “civil, social, and personal rights” is a bit vague for me. My assumption lead me to believe we part company here. Remember that others have the right to disagree. What I see everyone in the activist community trying to achieve is to have their set of values forced on everyone else by the legislative and judicial process. What is needed is social acceptance. What many more conservative people see is a trampling of rights. Special rights have become a reality and needs to be removed.

Many people equate things like pedophilia with the gay community. The gay community needs to renounce these practices and the associated web sites and activist groups that have the agenda for it. As long as activist groups show no regard for those who disagree, they will not gain support.

Well, enough for now… I will respond to the fire I imposed on myself.

[Alayna]

You make excellent points Felicity but (as usual;)) our world perspectives differ.

I was being sarcastic about the morality thing. What I meant by that is the rise of the Religious Right, specifically people who are anti-civil rights but use "morality" as their platform. To me, anti-abortion laws, same-sex marriage bans, and laws such as the Patriot Act are blows to civil rights, though their supporters believe they are a return to moral values.

Also, I'm not saying things were better at any time. They are getting worse as time goes by. Though I know you'd disagree, re-electing George Bush is the worst mistake the citizens of this country have ever made, although it may have been inevitable. I agree that groups such as PETA can be looked at as extremist, but this trend happens regardless of a left or right political swing. Give a mouse a cookie and he wants a glass of milk - you're totally right and a lot of it comes from the insane amount of lawyers we have in this country looking for a paycheck. It's frivilous at best, and is destructive to our entire society at worst.

I'm not sure I understand completely what you mean by "trampling or rights" but I'll take a guess: I'm assuming you mean people who want all of society to bend to their needs at the expense of everyone else because it's their "right". An example would be a blind person forcing all the movie theaters in the country to close down until they can provide a person to describe the movie to him while he's watching it. This would impede everybody else's right to go see a movie just to serve his selfish needs. Of course it's a farfetched example, but I think I'm getting what you mean - and I totally agree! Life's a bitch, and sometimes things happen to a person that puts him at a disadvantage. But that doesn't mean he has the right to inconvenience or harm everyone else just so he can get back on the same level as them. It's selfish and lazy and shows a total lack of personal responsibility.

As for the gay community and similar examples, it's not their responsibilty, nor is it fair, for them to have to dispel popular misconceptions. It would help their cause for sure, but that's like telling CD's across the country to not dress in public because a little old lady had a heart attack because she was startled by a drag queen she saw at the cleaners.:rolleyes: First of all, we all know a drag-queen isn't a CD, nor is a gay a pedophile - they're just misconceptions. Second, whose fault is that really? I'd say nobody's - certainly not the CD community.

FInally, the reason I believe this whole thing will get worse is (as usual) by studying history. It's a common pattern: 1)there is a repressive government, and it's known by the populous. 2) an angry populous overthrows the oppresser. 3) A liberal "for the people" government is established. 4) pressure to perform and internal greed/power struggles causes the government to bend its values. 5) the government becomes an oppresser but has not yet been discovered by the populous.

As for the U.S. we're at phase 5
1) England controls the U.S. colonies
2) American Revolution
3) Bill of Rights
4) Industrial age and supercapitalists (Carnegie), Cold War, fall of Communism, Hyper-corporations
5) Patriot Act, War on Iraq, single-party rule of government by appointment instead of election, massive fear campaigns and propaganda

If you want to see this pattern elsewhere, simply look at every other empire that has ever existed, from Byzantine to British.

Of course, this isn't any kind of official list or cycle - just a pattern of government that I see as blatantly obvious.:D

[Felicity]

You make excellent points Felicity but (as usual;)) our world perspectives differ.
Thank you. Wish more people could be tolerant and accept what I say in polite disagreement.


I was being sarcastic about the morality thing. What I meant by that is the rise of the Religious Right, specifically people who are anti-civil rights but use "morality" as their platform.
I’m glad you were being sarcastic…. Had me worried for a bit there.

To me, anti-abortion laws, same-sex marriage bans, and laws such as the Patriot Act are blows to civil rights, though their supporters believe they are a return to moral values.
We do differ here.

I believe abortion to be killing an innocent. I believe it should only be used in rare circumstances. Today, for many, it has become a form of birth control. This is appalling to me, and probably at least half the nation.

I don’t see Same Sex Marriage as a problem except redefining its traditional meaning and the fact it is a religious function. The government shouldn’t be involved with it anyway. I believe if the people pushing this agenda would ask for all or nearly all rights and obligations normally associated with marriage, in a Civil Union, contract, or by some other name, they could make it happen in less than a year of work.

I grudgingly support the Patriot Act myself. There are times when we must try to trust our government to not abuse their powers…. Ooops. Am I dreaming? Yes, it has flaws, but it had prevented at least one major attack I’m aware of… An attack of the Brooklyn Bridge. It would probably be a part of history like the towers without the Patriot Act!



Also, I'm not saying things were better at any time. They are getting worse as time goes by. Though I know you'd disagree, re-electing George Bush is the worst mistake the citizens of this country have ever made, although it may have been inevitable.
But why is President Bush a bad president? I have not yet seen an argument against him serious enough that I consider credible. The democrat’s slander and propaganda machines worked overtime on Bush, and he still won!

Yes, things in some ways have been getting worse, I wasn’t thinking on the same lines as you with my last post.


I'm not sure I understand completely what you mean by "trampling or rights" but I'll take a guess: I'm assuming you mean people who want all of society to bend to their needs at the expense of everyone else because it's their "right". An example would be a blind person forcing all the movie theaters in the country to close down until they can provide a person to describe the movie to him while he's watching it. This would impede everybody else's right to go see a movie just to serve his selfish needs. Of course it's a farfetched example, but I think I'm getting what you mean - and I totally agree!
LOL… yes, an exteem example, but that was my point.

Life's a bitch, and sometimes things happen to a person that puts him at a disadvantage. But that doesn't mean he has the right to inconvenience or harm everyone else just so he can get back on the same level as them. It's selfish and lazy and shows a total lack of personal responsibility.

That is one reason I shy away from most liberal agendas. I believe in personal responsibility and liberal agendas generally disregard them in one form or another.


As for the gay community and similar examples, it's not their responsibilty, nor is it fair, for them to have to dispel popular misconceptions. It would help their cause for sure, but that's like telling CD's across the country to not dress in public because a little old lady had a heart attack because she was startled by a drag queen she saw at the cleaners.:rolleyes: First of all, we all know a drag-queen isn't a CD, nor is a gay a pedophile - they're just misconceptions. Second, whose fault is that really? I'd say nobody's - certainly not the CD community.
Agreed, not their responsibility, but it would help for them to renounce the harmful aspects that ignorant people associate with them. Oh… My…. God……. We agree again! Somebody mark this day!

FInally, the reason I believe this whole thing will get worse is (as usual) by studying history. It's a common pattern: 1)there is a repressive government, and it's known by the populous. 2) an angry populous overthrows the oppresser. 3) A liberal "for the people" government is established. 4) pressure to perform and internal greed/power struggles causes the government to bend its values. 5) the government becomes an oppresser but has not yet been discovered by the populous.

As for the U.S. we're at phase 5
1) England controls the U.S. colonies
2) American Revolution
3) Bill of Rights
4) Industrial age and supercapitalists (Carnegie), Cold War, fall of Communism, Hyper-corporations
5) Patriot Act, War on Iraq, single-party rule of government by appointment instead of election, massive fear campaigns and propaganda

If you want to see this pattern elsewhere, simply look at every other empire that has ever existed, from Byzantine to British.

Of course, this isn't any kind of official list or cycle - just a pattern of government that I see as blatantly obvious.:D Yes, we are in danger of that extreme again. Short of another revolution, we have to act before its too late and really vote with responsibility. My state is so corrupt, they overturn anything they don’t like that the people vote for with its appointed activist judges. Oregon has allot of bad in it, probably worse than most, and definitely worst than the US government. We recently had a land rights measure pass, but I’ll bet they will find a way to disrupt that too.

Remember, the problems with our government lie with the people we elect. I wish people would look into voting records rather than believing what a politician says. This is my biggest concern about being at the beginning of step 5. My fellow Americans are being duped in my opinion. Our biggest problems lie with those we elect to congress. They are the ones that make the laws. The tax laws, trade laws, budget, everything. President Bush has nothing to do with the problems we face. Congress is to blame, not him!

[Laura Jane]

I don’t see Same Sex Marriage as a problem except redefining its traditional meaning and the fact it is a religious function. The government shouldn’t be involved with it anyway. I believe if the people pushing this agenda would ask for all or nearly all rights and obligations normally associated with marriage, in a Civil Union, contract, or by some other name, they could make it happen in less than a year of work.

I had to laugh at the Big Yin's (Billy Connolly) observation on the TV last night. What is happening in the world today. The only people who want to get married are Priests and Gays!

I suppose the protests and Kafuffle are the signs of the desire to obtain something that is denied you, I suppose its part of the reason we cross dress as well!

[Alayna]

Felicity, I can rant and rave for hours about how much I hate "W", but it won't do any good because our roots are based on totally different things. For the same reason you won't be able to convince me that he's a good president. We're agreeing on a lot here though! We have entered bizarro CD-forum! I also think super-leftist liberals are just copping-out of their responsibilities as citizens in a democracy. Have you ever seen PCU? They're the stupid cause-heads - "they find a cause and stick with it...For about a week":rolleyes:. But we end up with the same type of thing with super-rightists. I can't say it enough...moderation, moderation, moderation (and context:D).

BTW, have you noticed that when the two of us reply on the same thread, inevitably we somehow hijack it to politics?:p