Question for GG cd'ers

[noname]

Just wondering if any of you GG can tell me why you cd. Just curious as to why as it seems women can wear whatever they want.

[mistunderstood]

It is not about the clothes. It is about makeing the inside match the outside. I have been wearing guy clothes for at lease 16 years. I feel I was born the wrong sex since I was little. I do not feel female.

[Kieron Andrew]

i find this question really hard to answer because i dont identify as a CD'er and i dont identify as a GG either, i am TS, born in the wrong body.......on the road to correcting that!, so for me its about identifying as male so therefore wearing male clothes full time!

[CaptLex]

Just wondering if any of you GG can tell me why you cd. Just curious as to why as it seems women can wear whatever they want.
I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll find anyone in this section who identifies as a GG. Yes, it's true that we're physically born female, but the mindset is different for FtMs and even for those who consider themselves androgynous or bi-gendered.

Anyway, Aaron's answer is probably the most common one here - it's to make the outside match the inside. By the way, men can wear whatever they want too - they just have to be willing to put up with the grief they may get from it (we do). :p

[Kieron Andrew]

Anyway, Aaron's answer is probably the most common one here - it's to make the outside match the inside. By the way, men can wear whatever they want too - they just have to be willing to put up with the grief they may get from it (we do). :plol i get grief all the time from people that dont know im TS, 'oh you would look so lovely in a dress'......'oh you should wear skirts more often, you are such a pretty GIRL!!' :rolleyes:

[GG Vanya]

Even *I* knew the answer to this one straightaway and I'm a GG married to a M2F CD.

It's got NADA to do with the clothes, but everything to do with presenting yourself to the outside world as you feel in your own private self.

Though I seldom post here, I do read from time to time, and I gotta say, I admire you guys for your temerity and chutzpah for I feel your path to being who you *are* is more difficult and less understood than that of the M2F CD.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. :happy:

[noname]

"oh you would look so lovely in a dress'......'oh you should wear skirts more often"

I wonder if comments like that is society trying to push us into the moulds they expect. Or if that is the guys equivalent as, "you look like a (*&*& sissy!"

Can someone clue me in as to how to do the quote thing when quoting a post?

Thanks

[Kieron Andrew]

"oh you would look so lovely in a dress'......'oh you should wear skirts more often"

I wonder if comments like that is society trying to push us into the moulds they expect. Or if that is the guys equivalent as, "you look like a (*&*& sissy!"
I would say it totally is.......


Can someone clue me in as to how to do the quote thing when quoting a post?

Thankswhen you hit the quote button on the right of someone's post, it will quote it, then type your message, you can delete any part of the quoted text too

[CaptLex]

Though I seldom post here, I do read from time to time, and I gotta say, I admire you guys for your temerity and chutzpah for I feel your path to being who you *are* is more difficult and less understood than that of the M2F CD.
Thanks, Vanya, that means a lot. :happy:


"oh you would look so lovely in a dress'......'oh you should wear skirts more often"

I wonder if comments like that is society trying to push us into the moulds they expect. Or if that is the guys equivalent as, "you look like a (*&*& sissy!"
Noname, when people say stuff like that to us it's their way of indirectly telling us that they don't think we look too attractive dressed like boys and it would please them if we dressed like girls instead. A lot of times it's said by parents, other relatives and even friends who think they mean well and are helping us out by pointing out that we could use some help in the looks and fashion department.

Usually, these people don't get it - they don't understand that dressing like girls makes us uncomfortable because these clothes don't represent us. They also think if they say it nicely (that is, "you would look so nice . . . ", instead of "you look terrible in that") they can encourage us to make changes they approve of.

I have a good friend who kept telling me he wanted to give me a glamour makeover. I kept telling him I was going to knock him out if he didn't shut up about it. :beatup: When I finally came out to him and he realized the truth about me, he apologized and offered to take me shopping for nice suits and ties instead. But not everybody is going to get it - especially relatives.

[privateperks]

I'm not a CD'er. I'm an intersexed individual who choses to be a man most of the time.

People come in more than two flavors and it really isn't much to do with the clothes imo. The clothes are just to give others a visual cue, whether in a skirt or in a tux, I'm still pretty much a guy.

[Kirchein]

Thanks, Vanya, that means a lot. :happy:


Noname, when people say stuff like that to us it's their way of indirectly telling us that they don't think we look too attractive dressed like boys and it would please them if we dressed like girls instead. A lot of times it's said by parents, other relatives and even friends who think they mean well and are helping us out by pointing out that we could use some help in the looks and fashion department.

Usually, these people don't get it - they don't understand that dressing like girls makes us uncomfortable because these clothes don't represent us. They also think if they say it nicely (that is, "you would look so nice . . . ", instead of "you look terrible in that") they can encourage us to make changes they approve of.

I have a good friend who kept telling me he wanted to give me a glamour makeover. I kept telling him I was going to knock him out if he didn't shut up about it. :beatup: When I finally came out to him and he realized the truth about me, he apologized and offered to take me shopping for nice suits and ties instead. But not everybody is going to get it - especially relatives.

aplausse aplausse wos great words captain

yep i totally agree with u. its just suks when sb try to "help u" and make u more femenine and then when u shout at them ....:eek:

and why dont they realised that it suks when they say "u´re a pretyy girl, u should wear skirts or girly clothes more often" AAAAGH!!!! :@ &%&&%&"GHAS

i better censure myself....(XD):p

[Kirchein]

Just wondering if any of you GG can tell me why you cd. Just curious as to why as it seems women can wear whatever they want.


now ill answer ur question dear :P

i just cd because i love guy clothes, they are really confortamble. girl clothes are really horrible, bored whinny...they suck...


and well as i forget ur name sry dear has said... i also try to match the inside with the outside..that things

[Wren]

Hello, I'm the variable. (one of them anyway)

I am a heterosexual Genetic Female who crossdresses.

Why?

It feels exhilerating. This is a really hard question to answer because other than that I don't really know why I crossdress. I used to think that as a woman I was an inferior human being so I wanted to be a male in order to experience the ease of life that men are given. I soon discovered this couldn't be any further from the truth, and that I was just sipping the cup of gender stereotypes. Gender-stereotypes (and any other stereotypes) are a load of horse crap that infuriate me, gender can be really fluid, and trying to act up to the 'social pressure' is not for me. Playing video games and heavy smoking and drinking isn't going to make me a boy, playing with barbies and being obsessed with shoe shopping isn't going to make me a girl. What does clothing have anything to do with it then?

I am who I am, sometimes that means that I express to the world that I am a boy, most of the time I potray a female exterior. That's just how it works.

I know I didn't answer your question and I probably contradicted myself a couple of times, I think I may have confused myself. So here's the short version, I crossdress because I just feel like it (call it a hobby), and because I like to f*ck with people's minds.

[Kirchein]

Wren what u´ve saaid iis aall truth, yep i mean i agree with u


lets f*ck ppl´s mind!

and btw i sometimes think, can a heterosexual genetic female who crossdressers find a partner (a bf well) . . . cos guys just seem to like supper girly girls

just askin´

[Kate Simmons]

As most probably already know, my rule of thumb is: "be yourself". I accept everyone for who they are as a person and appreciate them as such. If you always go with your feelings and instincts, you are usually right. This includes how you feel about yourself. I appreciate having you all as my friends. Ericka

[CaptLex]

and btw i sometimes think, can a heterosexual genetic female who crossdressers find a partner (a bf well) . . . cos guys just seem to like supper girly girls

just askin´
I used to wonder the same thing, but there are plenty of guys who are not attracted to girly-girls and I've even met quite a few who say they actually prefer masculine-looking women. In fact, when I started appearing more masculine at work there was one guy in particular who suddenly found me more attractive (he loved my shorter hair and men's shirts). Too bad I wasn't attracted to him, though.

Like someone once said, there's a lid for every pot. :happy:

[Kirchein]

well i didnt mean SUPER girly girl, just a little girly (u know, girly shirts..one day a skirt), but anyway thx 4 ur answers :D

[sparro]

Wren what u´ve saaid iis aall truth, yep i mean i agree with u


lets f*ck ppl´s mind!

and btw i sometimes think, can a heterosexual genetic female who crossdressers find a partner (a bf well) . . . cos guys just seem to like supper girly girls

just askin´

Well, she's got me. Do I count?
I know that besides us there is at least one other couple where the GF, let's call them, crossdresses and also has a boyfriend. I think sometimes people forget that in sexuality aswell as in people, there is never just one angle to take it from. What I mean is, if you really like a person, it doesn't really matters if "your type" is girly and fancy, because if you really like that person a lot, and want to be with them, something like dressing up as a boy sometimes isn't really a good enough reason to stop loving them. Not that I don't like it. :D

In any case, she's rather girly half the time. *shrug* :)

[Wren]

well i didnt mean SUPER girly girl, just a little girly (u know, girly shirts..one day a skirt), but anyway thx 4 ur answers :D

ummm...how do I answer this? Well I have a boyfriend and boys tend to like me, this is probably due to the fact that I have a winning personality *cough*.

Seriously though to answer your question, I do wear skirts a lot of the time, and I'm a really feminine person...just with some masculine days.

[CaptLex]

I'm a really feminine person...just with some masculine days.
The best of both worlds! :thumbsup:

[Kirchein]

well i dont wear dresses or skirts, I dress like a guy....maybe im femenine or not I dunno im just Kirchein

and well that was I was worried I couldnt find a bf because of the way I dress (anyway im not gonna change it . . . )

[Melinda]

Hello, I'm the variable. (one of them anyway)

I am a heterosexual Genetic Female who crossdresses.

Why?

...

here's the short version, I crossdress because I just feel like it (call it a hobby), and because I like to f*ck with people's minds.


Wren, I'm with you. I like to dress like a girl partly just to freak people out. Shake them out of their narrow little viewpoint and see if I can get them to realize the world is infinitely variable. Most people just want to have rules about everything, like what I should or shouldn't wear, so they never have to feel lost or vulnerable. I LIKE to feel lost and vulnerable. Like you said, it's exhilirating!

I think that makes me lucky to have so many choices. I feel pretty comfortable with my body and CD because it's fun. The brave folks here trying to deal with a strong gender identity that doesn't match their physical reality have my admiration and respect but I wouldn't trade places with that kind of psychic agony for anything. Oddly, those rules about who wears what, etc. must actually help someone in that situation. Imagine if there wer no rules about how you express your gender. How would someone with the wrong body for their gender express how they really feel. There would be no "boy" clothes and no "girl" clothes and our tomboy and sissy friends would have no way to express their inner selves without actual surgery. I'd lose some fun but they'd lose the ability to even try to be themselves. Ouch.

Strange world, but ain't it grand?

[noname]

All this talk about dress codes society places reminds me of a chat I had with a friend recently. I had asked, "why do people seem all wierded out or give me strange looks? Don't they stop and think, maybe he just likes that?" The answer was quite simple, because it isn't what they were expecting. Funny isn't it.

Perhaps I think all too much. In my mind why am I any different from half the other population? Maybe I like nail polish, softer shirts, and other style cuts. But alas, the most won't realize that. Pretty sad that people believe a certain set of sexual organs will determine what colors and style one likes. But I think it goes beyond style.

Yes, a lot of it for me is style. But near the beginning of this thread someone said, because dressing a gg just isn't them. But I think over time I've realized more about me through all of this. And like the gg's I came to the realization that part of it is me not wanting to be assocaited with other guys. When I see the super macho, the less bathed, the unmatched clothes, and the other things many men like to portray, well it makes me sick. All I can think of is how that all those things are so not me, and generally do not want to be put into that group.

Ok, I'm rambling on, but you get the idea. Has anyone grown to understand themselves through all this?

[Satrana]

Noname,

With regard to your initial point about GGs and their right to wear masculine clothing, I have a simple theory.

There are many reasons to CD but I believe you can place them into two large groupings - one group are those who just want to for fun, preference, to be a rebel etc, then the other group is for those with gender issues. Of course there is plenty of overlap. Because men are not allowed to crossdress period, they are all labeled as CDs.

With women who want to dress in masculine clothes for fun or preference they can do so freely, they blend in with regular GGs, so they will probably never consider themselves as CDs, especially as that label has such a negative connatation. So mostly only those women who have gender issues will come to a forum like this because they are the only ones who recognise themselves as CDs. If men had the same clothing choices as women then the MTF forum would be much smaller than it presently is.

Not a perfect theory. What do the guys here think about it? Are there more GGs out there crossdressing but do not consider themselves CDs?

[CaptLex]

Not a perfect theory. What do the guys here think about it? Are there more GGs out there crossdressing but do not consider themselves CDs?
That's actually not a bad point, Satrana. Certainly worth considering. I've known women who don't wear skirts or makeup, keep their hair short and don't own a pair of heels, but would never consider themselves even remotely transgendered (and all this is regardless of sexual orientation). The clothes are just more comfortable for them and better define their personalities - or, as you say, "for fun, preference, to be a rebel etc."

Conversely, those of us who don't want to "blend in with regular GGs" (as you put it), are probably the ones that have gender issues, whether or not we plan to transition, and want to be seen as expressing a male identity or personality with our clothes, mannerisms, hairstyles, etc. Hmmm . . . not a bad point at all. :thumbsup:

[Satrana]

Glad you see merit in my thoughts. Whenever I go out especially to busy places like shopping malls it is easy to spot many GGs who have no obvious signs of being transgendered but whose outfits from the boots, to the cut of the pants and top plus the look and colors of the clothing materials appear to have made a conscience attempt to have a masculine look. But since they have made no obvious attempt to mask their physical gender, I am presuming that they probably do not have gender issues. That still makes them a CD in my book if you are applying the same standards as for MTF CDs.

I am beginning to think that crossdressing is far more prevalent among the female population than is commonly thought - maybe even approaching the levels among men - its just that these female CDs do not recognise themselves as CDs because of women's greater freedom to dabble in male clothing.

Which leads me to the next logical point, that people who define crossdressers as having to have gender issues and wanting to be a member of the opposite gender are being far too selective. The crossdressing community is far broader than just those with gender issues. For me this means there is no strictly defined border between CDs and GGs and GMs, we all just merge into one another. I think this will become more and more obvious as society slowly becomes increasingly more liberal and tolerant.

[CaptLex]

That still makes them a CD in my book if you are applying the same standards as for MTF CDs.

I am beginning to think that crossdressing is far more prevalent among the female population than is commonly thought - maybe even approaching the levels among men - its just that these female CDs do not recognise themselves as CDs because of women's greater freedom to dabble in male clothing.
I see where you're going with this, but I think much has to do with the motivation behind the dressing also. In other words, if men recognize that they're wearing clothes made specifically for women, their feelings about dressing are completely different than women who wear mens-styled clothing that is not made specifically for men. Did I lose you?

In other words, men will probably think their clothes are "hers", while a woman could wear clothes that look almost identical to mens clothes, but believes the clothes are "mine" not "his". I'm not sure the explanation came out right either. What I'm trying to say is that what makes a crossdresser is not what the person wears, but whether the person's wears clothes of the opposite sex intentionally.

[Kieron Andrew]

Did I lose you?.
totally and i AM a FTM lol

[CaptLex]

totally and i AM a FTM lol
LOL! I should have known Mr. Smart Mouth would say something. :tongueout

Actually, I know I tend to go around in circles before I come in for a landing with a point - I'm working on that (really!). :chatterbox: I was just trying to say that while some women wear clothes that look like men's clothes, they don't do it with the intention of wearing clothes made for men (like some men wear women's clothes intentionally). Did that come out better? :idontknow:

[Kieron Andrew]

LOL! I should have known Mr. Smart Mouth would say something. :tongueout
hey now!!!!!

[JenniferMint]

What I'm trying to say is that what makes a crossdresser is not what the person wears, but whether the person's wears clothes of the opposite sex intentionally.

Hmm, I might be able to relate to that.

For example, one time when I was young, I asked my mother if I could wear her panties. She said yes.

But it wasn't for crossdressing reasons---we were on a family vacation, I was out of clean underwear, and my father's underwear would have been too big for me.

(Well, maybe I was a little excited at wearing panties...)

[Satrana]

I see where you're going with this, but I think much has to do with the motivation behind the dressing also. In other words, if men recognize that they're wearing clothes made specifically for women, their feelings about dressing are completely different than women who wear mens-styled clothing that is not made specifically for men. Did I lose you?

In other words, men will probably think their clothes are "hers", while a woman could wear clothes that look almost identical to mens clothes, but believes the clothes are "mine" not "his". I'm not sure the explanation came out right either. What I'm trying to say is that what makes a crossdresser is not what the person wears, but whether the person's wears clothes of the opposite sex intentionally.

I am still with you!:happy: I think though you are mixing two groups of CDs together - those with gender identity issues and those just wanting to dress up for fun.

Ok this is maybe one of these catch 22 situations. Maybe the intentions between male CDs and my imaginery female CDs are different because of the different circumstances the two genders presently live in.

Imagine for a second a world where men have the same freedom as women in dressing and it has been this way for several decades. In this world a male CD would never need to intentionally wear woman's clothing because such labels would be essentially meaningless as his own wardrobe would contain men's skirts and dresses etc which allowed him sufficient self-expression that he would never think about needing to emulate a woman by wearing actual women's clothes. You see, in this world men would have their own skirts cut to fit men's bodies so men's skirts would be similar but not identical to womens'.

Please remember we are talking about CDs who do this for clothing preference only, not for gender reasons.

I think your point about women wearing masculine clothing and not actual men's clothes is really indicative of the present circumstances. Of course a female CD wants her masculine clothes to fit her properly just as I want to wear clothes that fit me properly - for example buying a blouse of the correct bust/waist size that also fits my wide shoulders.(which is difficult!). If there was a full range of feminine styled clothing for men, I have no doubt that is where male CDs would do their shopping.

If masculine styled clothing was not available for women today then would female CDs not just have to buy male clothes? Women do routinely buy and borrow men's clothes anyway. In any case what is the difference between colthes cut for men's and women's body sizes if the design is identical? If you are just dressing for fun, for fashion preference, you don't really care.

I don't know if you can differentiate between the mentality of a woman who buys masculine styled clothing for women or one who just wears men's clothing - for me the reason is still the same i.e. she wants to present a masculine image but is not trying to pretend to be or trying to emulate a man because she is not doing this for gender reasons.

When a woman wears a masculine themed outfit, she must be doing it for a reason. Clothing does reflect what we feel about ourselves.

Personally it would not matter to me who designed the clothes for whatever gender, if it looked nice I would buy it anyway.

Are you still with me?:happy:

[Satrana]

hey now!!!!!

Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
We know that they won't win:hugs:

One of my favorite songs.:happy:

[CaptLex]

I don't know if you can differentiate between the mentality of a woman who buys masculine styled clothing for women or one who just wears men's clothing - for me the reason is still the same i.e. she wants to present a masculine image but is not trying to pretend to be or trying to emulate a man because she is not doing this for gender reasons.

When a woman wears a masculine themed outfit, she must be doing it for a reason. Clothing does reflect what we feel about ourselves.

Are you still with me?:happy:
I think I'm still with you, but I'm wrestling with a semi-hangover today, so I hope I can give your post the attention it deserves. Here goes:

I hope the GGs will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a woman who wears masculine-styled clothing (as opposed to male clothes) is not necessarily trying to present a masculine image. They may just like pants, shirts, blazers, etc. more than skirts and heels. However, an FtM (or a woman who specifically dresses in men's clothes) is trying to present a masculine image (for varied reasons), and this is the difference.

I won't say I'm "turned on" by wearing clothes specifically made for men (not sexually anyway), but for me there is a certain thrill and a bit of euphoria when I put on a man's shirt, tie, etc. (probably from being able to express my masculine identity), that I don't get from wearing masculine-styled women's clothes. Some of my clothing that comes from the women's department (don't have much of that left anymore) does look like men's wear to the unsuspecting public, but I know the difference and I can "feel" the difference too.

So . . . how we doing? Do you want some of my aspirin now? :heehee:

[Satrana]

I think I'm still with you, but I'm wrestling with a semi-hangover today, so I hope I can give your post the attention it deserves. Here goes:

I hope the GGs will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a woman who wears masculine-styled clothing (as opposed to male clothes) is not necessarily trying to present a masculine image. They may just like pants, shirts, blazers, etc. more than skirts and heels. However, an FtM (or a woman who specifically dresses in men's clothes) is trying to present a masculine image (for varied reasons), and this is the difference.

I won't say I'm "turned on" by wearing clothes specifically made for men (not sexually anyway), but for me there is a certain thrill and a bit of euphoria when I put on a man's shirt, tie, etc. (probably from being able to express my masculine identity), that I don't get from wearing masculine-styled women's clothes. Some of my clothing that comes from the women's department (don't have much of that left anymore) does look like men's wear to the unsuspecting public, but I know the difference and I can "feel" the difference too.

So . . . how we doing? Do you want some of my aspirin now? :heehee:

Captlex

Yes the way you feel with men's clothes is different because you want to align yourself with the male gender so wearing masculine themed female clothes does not do it for you. But if you were not feeling any need to align yourself with the opposite gender then such a distinction would not matter to you. All that would matter is the overall "look" that you desire.

There are hundreds of MTF Cds in the other sub-forums here who only come to post silly, fun stuff and have no interest in gender issues. For them, they are simply enjoying themselves with the look and feel of the clothes and the cultural messages they convey. I doubt if these type of CDs think of their female clothes as belonging to "her" since they have no female alter ego.

If these CDs had grown up in a world where all men had female themed clothes freely available to wear then they would never bother with actual women's clothes.

I guess what I am driving at is understanding that there are many levels of crossdressing and plenty of people are not doing it for gender reasons but simply for fun and preference. Male Cds differ from their female counterparts because they have to do this secretly in the closet their entire lives, their dressing never gets "normalised" by appearing in public so their attitude to crossdressing is of course different. Place these guys in an alternative universe and the result would be men just wearing skirts with no overt abnormal reason.


They may just like pants, shirts, blazers, etc. more than skirts and heels. This may indeed be true but people do not just pick clothes without understanding the cultural message the clothes send out. Women cannot escape the knowledge that their look is masculine and not feminine. After all, women can wear clothes similar to mens but with obvious feminine overtones such as jeans with floral designs on them etc. But a women who wears Doc Martin boots, baggy pants, drab fullsleeve top, baseball cap etc is fully aware of the look she is presenting.

I know most women don't do this, but there are some who do. I am saying these are female CDs who have grown up in a world where these clothes have always been available to them so they have never had any need nor interest in delving into fantasyland dressing unlike their closeted male counterparts. The clothes have no strong emotional impact because they have never been taboo for female CDs.

As a second issue - do you consider tomboys are crossdressers?

[Kieron Andrew]

As a second issue - do you consider tomboys are crossdressers?no they are girls and still want to be seen as girls but wearing guys clothes! and will tell you as much, much like butch lesbians still recognises their femininity

[noname]

If that's the case, then I'm not a cd.

[SherryLynn GG]

Ok I have never posted on this board but ive read this whole thread and being a GG I had to respond....

First of all, I do not own any skirts or dresses, the last time I wore a dress was about 2 years ago when i got married...I wear jeans most of the time...womens jeans of course, I dont own a single pair of heels I wear tennis shoes or flip flops...BUT I do not feel in any way that this makes me any type of CD. I dont own a single stitch of mens clothing...Just because I wear a pair of jeans and men can wear jeans doesnt mean im a CD

Just because I dont wear skirts and heels and full makeup everyday doesnt mean im a CD. When I wear jeans or any kinda pants I dont look even 1% like a man, so im not sure how that could even be brought up

My husband is a CD, when he dresses he only wears womens clothes for the reason he's wanting to look like a woman...and feel like a woman

I understand that the comment was made that a woman looking like a man isnt CDing for gender issues, and thats right because if a woman wears jeans and a tshirt that are made for a woman how in the world could that even be considered CDing??

We dont live in a world anymore that women have to wear dresses and skirts and heels to be a woman....and just because a woman chooses to wear jeans doesnt mean she's a CD....in that case every woman in the world would be CD....maybe i misunderstood the posts where this was mentioned but it was stated several times so i dont think im that far off

And im not trying to offend anyone or anything, I say everybody wear what you want who cares what anybody thinks...I support my husband 100%, I just dont feel that its necessary to say that all GGs that wear jeans or a ball cap are CDs because to be honest, most GGs that wear a hat are wearing it for a bad hair day and dont even look anything like a man whatsoever cause they are wearing womens clothing otherwise...anyway thats my 2 cents on this subject...

[JenniferMint]

I know this lesbian (17 years old). Back when she was 14, she would dress up as a guy, and she even practiced making her voice sound masculine. She said she found that she attracted girls to her more easily this way.

These days she found a girlfriend already, and just dresses like a tomboy (she said she got used to dressing this way from being an F2M CD), and looks very cute doing it.

[noname]

Ok I have never posted on this board but ive read this whole thread and being a GG I had to respond....

First of all, I do not own any skirts or dresses, the last time I wore a dress was about 2 years ago when i got married...I wear jeans most of the time...womens jeans of course, I dont own a single pair of heels I wear tennis shoes or flip flops...BUT I do not feel in any way that this makes me any type of CD. I dont own a single stitch of mens clothing...Just because I wear a pair of jeans and men can wear jeans doesnt mean im a CD

Just because I dont wear skirts and heels and full makeup everyday doesnt mean im a CD. When I wear jeans or any kinda pants I dont look even 1% like a man, so im not sure how that could even be brought up

My husband is a CD, when he dresses he only wears womens clothes for the reason he's wanting to look like a woman...and feel like a woman

I understand that the comment was made that a woman looking like a man isnt CDing for gender issues, and thats right because if a woman wears jeans and a tshirt that are made for a woman how in the world could that even be considered CDing??

We dont live in a world anymore that women have to wear dresses and skirts and heels to be a woman....and just because a woman chooses to wear jeans doesnt mean she's a CD....in that case every woman in the world would be CD....maybe i misunderstood the posts where this was mentioned but it was stated several times so i dont think im that far off

And im not trying to offend anyone or anything, I say everybody wear what you want who cares what anybody thinks...I support my husband 100%, I just dont feel that its necessary to say that all GGs that wear jeans or a ball cap are CDs because to be honest, most GGs that wear a hat are wearing it for a bad hair day and dont even look anything like a man whatsoever cause they are wearing womens clothing otherwise...anyway thats my 2 cents on this subject...

As long as you don't consider me wearing a skirt cd'ing then your logic is correct.

[CaptLex]

Ok I have never posted on this board but ive read this whole thread and being a GG I had to respond....
Feel free to drop by any time, SherryLynn, and I specifically asked for GG's to jump in, so your opinion is as welcome as anyone else's. :thumbsup:

[CaptLex]

Satrana,

First I want to say that I enjoy your posts - they're interesting and well thought out. You give me much to think about. Of course, too much thinking gives me a headache, but I'm still enjoying it. Also, thanks for presenting your views in a respectful manner - that really says a lot about you. I hope other readers here are getting as much out of this discussion as I am.

Now, as to the topic at hand . . . . it seems to me that we agree to disagree about some, but not all, of this. For example . . .


there are many levels of crossdressing and plenty of people are not doing it for gender reasons but simply for fun and preference.
I totally agree with you on this one. Which is why I also don't think it's cool for one person to point to the next person (regardless of whether MtF, FtM, GG, etc.) and tell them that they are or are not a crossdresser. I think it's up to the individual to label or not label him/herself regarding this subject, regardless of biological sex, gender identity and preferred clothing. I'm not accusing you of this, but I've seen a lot of it go on here and it troubles me.


Male Cds differ from their female counterparts because they have to do this secretly in the closet their entire lives, their dressing never gets "normalised" by appearing in public so their attitude to crossdressing is of course different.
I agree here to a point. What some people don't realize - especially some male CDs, I feel (maybe 'cause they're too close to see it objectively) - is that FtMs sometimes also have to live in the closet, can also be stigmatized, ostracized and abused (verbally and physically) because of what they wear. I'm tired of hearing "girls can wear what they want". Yes and no.

Also, it's possible that another way that male and female CDs differ is that, as you stated, some MtFs dress for fun and some dress for gender identity and expression, while it seems that FtMs almost always dress for gender identity (although I think the jury is still out on this). Therefore, it can be like comparing apples and oranges.


people do not just pick clothes without understanding the cultural message the clothes send out. Women cannot escape the knowledge that their look is masculine and not feminine. After all, women can wear clothes similar to mens but with obvious feminine overtones such as jeans with floral designs on them etc. But a women who wears Doc Martin boots, baggy pants, drab fullsleeve top, baseball cap etc is fully aware of the look she is presenting.
Isn't that a matter of personal opinion? I'll bet you a case of rum (Bacardi, please) you can find a woman dressed as you just described (Doc Martin's, etc.) who would be surprised to learn that her look is sending out a masculine message to anyone. You may see it that way and she may not - neither is wrong, but sometimes the message received is not the one intentionally sent.


As a second issue - do you consider tomboys are crossdressers?
This one is not as easy as it sounds, but I like a challenge. I don't think I can really answer the question until I know how you define a "tomboy". I've seen the word used interchangeably with FtMs, transmen, lesbians or just as a woman who dresses in men's-styled clothing but with a female identity (as Kieron stated). I was called a tomboy as a youngster, but to me that meant that I was a girl who acted like the boys, not a girl who felt like a boy, so I never really liked the word. I can only answer for myself and I would say that I don't consider myself a tomboy (as I define it), but I (and this may sound contradictory) do consider myself a crossdresser (as I define that too).

Thanks for the brain teaser, Satrana. :heehee:

[Abraxas]

Eddie Izzard asked me if I would consider myself a tomboy. I kind of stammered 'um, no, not really . . .'
It is a tough question to answer, particularly put on the spot like that by anyone, let alone Eddie Izzard!
No, I don't consider myself a tomboy. Other people might read me as one, but I see myself as a boy who just happened to receive some of the wrong bits and pieces upon packaging.

[Satrana]

no they are girls and still want to be seen as girls but wearing guys clothes! and will tell you as much, much like butch lesbians still recognises their femininity

Ahh.. thats where I have a different understanding of crossdressing then. I think the secretive closeted lifestyle of the MTF CD means we live in fear of being seen as a "man in a skirt" because that defines a pervert - so many go for the full "emulation". Remove the phobia and intolerance from boys wearing girls clothes and I think many young MTF CDs would be happy to be seen as a boy in a skirt. I believe the differences we see today in MTF and FTM crossdresssing communities is entirely derived from the differences in the freedom to use clothes and the intolerance to males feminizing themselves in any manner.

The reason I asked about tomboys is that, correct me if I am wrong, they typically appear in the years before puberty ie. 8-12 years old which corresponds with the usual time a MTF CD begins his journey. I think the same thing is happening in both sides, but the difference is that FTM Cds have the option to externalize their feelings and become tomboys, while MTF CDs have to internalize their feelings and become closeted CDs. From there the crossdressing experience for both sets are usually different.

[Satrana]

I understand that the comment was made that a woman looking like a man isnt CDing for gender issues, and thats right because if a woman wears jeans and a tshirt that are made for a woman how in the world could that even be considered CDing??


So if a designer started selling skirts and dresses labeled for men, and I bought those clothes instead then that means I would no longer be a CD?

I understand everything you say and understand why you think you are not CDing, but I also understand that you are examining this question from the reality of today's inequality. If you imagined a world of equality for both genders then men wearing skirts would no longer be CDs either.

We are ONLY considered CDs because society is intolerant of MTF crossdressing but is largely tolerant of FTM crossdressing. You dont consider yourself a CD because all women are crossdressing- that is circular logic!
You dont think the same way MTF CDs do because you have never had the need to be closeted since childhood, like all freedoms everyone takes for granted.

Do you really think that only the CDs in this forum and others would be the only men wearing skirts if there was equality? Remove the phobias and intolerance and I feel certain most men would have skirts and dresses in their wardrobe alongside trousers and suits. Take men out of their usual environment and place them say on a foreign beach then many have no problem wearing a bright flowery wraparound. Why? because the fears and phobias have temporarily disappeared.

This is sounding like a rant so apologies. I honestly believe that you really have to put yourself out of the box to get to grips with this issue. You have to put aside the reality you have experienced and the existing inequalities and then look at the issue from a level playing field. When I do this, all I see are men and women feeling and doing the same things, we are all the same. But back in reality we are different because society tells us when should treat each other differently.

Let me put up another teaser - why are GGs so adamant that they are not CDs? If you accept the rationale that everyone should all be allowed to dress as they please (within reason) then why reject the notion that women are crossdressing for fun/preference? What is so wrong with CDing in the first place?

[Satrana]

Satrana,

First I want to say that I enjoy your posts - they're interesting and well thought out. You give me much to think about. Of course, too much thinking gives me a headache, but I'm still enjoying it. Also, thanks for presenting your views in a respectful manner - that really says a lot about you. I hope other readers here are getting as much out of this discussion as I am.
Crossdressing should always be fun at the end of the day - we do it because it is who we are and it makes us happy!


I totally agree with you on this one. Which is why I also don't think it's cool for one person to point to the next person (regardless of whether MtF, FtM, GG, etc.) and tell them that they are or are not a crossdresser. I think it's up to the individual to label or not label him/herself regarding this subject, regardless of biological sex, gender identity and preferred clothing. I'm not accusing you of this, but I've seen a lot of it go on here and it troubles me. Yes agreed too. Crossdressers are viewed as a seperate group because we allow others (society) to label us so.



I agree here to a point. What some people don't realize - especially some male CDs, I feel (maybe 'cause they're too close to see it objectively) - is that FtMs sometimes also have to live in the closet, can also be stigmatized, ostracized and abused (verbally and physically) because of what they wear. I'm tired of hearing "girls can wear what they want". Yes and no.
Yes sorry if I sounded a bit condescending there, I know that FTM have a hard time to because you are projecting a masculine look and behavior which goes well beyond the dabbling that most women do in masculinity so you are also stigmatised as much as MTF are.


Also, it's possible that another way that male and female CDs differ is that, as you stated, some MtFs dress for fun and some dress for gender identity and expression, while it seems that FtMs almost always dress for gender identity (although I think the jury is still out on this). Therefore, it can be like comparing apples and oranges.Re your point on FTM, again I think "fun FTM CDs" do exist but are just invisible amongst normal women and certainly do not think of themselves as CDs. Maybe the female apples/oranges are there but are not visible to the naked eye.



Isn't that a matter of personal opinion? I'll bet you a case of rum (Bacardi, please) you can find a woman dressed as you just described (Doc Martin's, etc.) who would be surprised to learn that her look is sending out a masculine message to anyone. You may see it that way and she may not - neither is wrong, but sometimes the message received is not the one intentionally sent. I concede it is definitely possible that a girl dresses up in masculine outsfits but does not see herself as projecting masculinity. But I think that more often than not she is aware and that is why she is doing it in the first place. Usually this can be examined in conjunction with her behavior as well - we are all focusing on the clothes, in real life we would also judge on the way she acted too. In my experience women who go for an obvious masculine look also act it too.

You want the extra strength tablets yet?:D

[Ryan]

Same as Kieron for me, I am a pre op transexual, hoping to be on T by April/May of next year too.

[CaptLex]

The reason I asked about tomboys is that, correct me if I am wrong, they typically appear in the years before puberty ie. 8-12 years old which corresponds with the usual time a MTF CD begins his journey. I think the same thing is happening in both sides, but the difference is that FTM Cds have the option to externalize their feelings and become tomboys, while MTF CDs have to internalize their feelings and become closeted CDs. From there the crossdressing experience for both sets are usually different.
I guess that means I'm not a true tomboy, then. I was convinced I was a boy at least as early as age 4-1/2 (that's my earliest memory of it) - way before ages 8-12. By the way, I don't think all tomboys have the "option to externalize their feelings". I've heard some "tomboys" (that is, some that were considered tomboys) say that they were punished (or at least heavily discouraged) by parents or had no one to play with as children because they crossed the gender line - leaving them very little option.


You want the extra strength tablets yet?
LOL - yes, please . . . with a heavily-caffeinated chaser! :heehee:

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

By the way, I don't think all tomboys have the "option to externalize their feelings". I've heard some "tomboys" (that is, some that were considered tomboys) say that they were punished (or at least heavily discouraged) by parents or had no one to play with as children because they crossed the gender line - leaving them very little option.

It should be noted too.... that even when tomboys are given a fair amount of latitude, gender conformity is usually enforced (often rather ruthlessly) when tomboys reach puberty. In her excellent new book, "She's Not the Man I Married," due out next year, Helen Boyd talks about the difficulties she faced being a masculine teenage girl.

For what it's worth, tomboys are also by no means monolithic. IIRC, the research shows the majority of tomboys are interested in broadening their range of behavior (i.e. playing with dolls and trucks), while a minority reject girls' social roles, and a smaller number reject being girls entirely.

That said, I've pondered the point Satrana raised myself. I.e. if boys were allowed a period of janegirlism, would some of them "get it out of their system"? Certainly it does seem like for some folks, it seems like a case on being fixated on what was denied.

[Satrana]

I guess that means I'm not a true tomboy, then. I was convinced I was a boy at least as early as age 4-1/2 (that's my earliest memory of it) - way before ages 8-12. By the way, I don't think all tomboys have the "option to externalize their feelings". I've heard some "tomboys" (that is, some that were considered tomboys) say that they were punished (or at least heavily discouraged) by parents or had no one to play with as children because they crossed the gender line - leaving them very little option.


LOL - yes, please . . . with a heavily-caffeinated chaser! :heehee:

I agree that the option to externalise is indeed not always available, gender intolerance is also applied to girls too. I think, as we have been discussing, that your early realization of your own gender issues is indicative of the fact that you and most of the other FTM here are really dealing with transgender issues and that you are either transexual or are (or considering) going full time in some shape or form. In other words you are not doing this for primarily for fun/preference reasons. Whereas girls who go through a tomboy stage in mid-childhood are much more likely to be simple crossdressers and use masculine clothes in adulthood as a clothing preference even if they themselves and society do not recognize them as CDs.

Marlena also brought up a good point that upon reaching puberty girls are supposed to leave behind their tomboyishness and become "real" women which for teenage girls basically means sexualizing their appearance. I am thinking that for a female CD who has been allowed to externalise her internal feelings for years, to suddenly face being put inside a closet, must be a major blow and must create resentment. I can imagine that a female CD must hate her peers for becoming "bimbos" and probably hate men for relating to women as sexual objects to be chased after. Probably these CDs end up as avid feminists because they do not actually want to live the male gender role but are just envious of male privileges. Actually the more I think about it, my "invisble female CDs" are probably visible as feminists, except these female CDs took a different turn and no longer admire the male gender.

How did you guys get through your teenage years? I presume most of you refused to succumb to presenting a girly look. Were you endlessly tormented by others? Was there any difference between how girls and boys treated you?

[Abraxas]

How did you guys get through your teenage years? I presume most of you refused to succumb to presenting a girly look. Were you endlessly tormented by others? Was there any difference between how girls and boys treated you?

My parents were pretty much fine with me dressing and acting like a boy, as I had been doing for a few years by that point, and I don't think it really occured to them that I should suddenly change.
However, my family did press a bit-- mostly other relatives I didn't live with on a daily basis. My cousins would always say to me 'Oh, by 8th grade you'll be wearing halters and high heels.' Then when 8th grade came around they just said 'Oh, by 9th grade . . .' It never changed until I hit about 18 and they realised that maybe I wasn't going to just 'grow out of it' as they'd thought.
However, it did occur to me at some point that even if I'd wanted to abandon the boy look and go all girly, I wouldn't be able to because that would mean they were right and I was wrong. And when it comes to how I feel or how I am, I'd prefer that I was right. Luckily, I never did want to change. That would have been hell. I would have been closeted, only in a different way.

As for being tormented, yes I was. But not in a 'typical' way, I suppose. I'd been beaten up for years in elementary school for no reason I can see (I was, at that point, a relatively 'normal' girl-- at least, I projected that image, more or less). Perhaps when I got to Jr. High people just got the vibe that I was one of the 'weak' ones and deserved to be picked on. When I was in Jr. High most of the people who picked on me were people who weren't in my classes, didn't know anything about me, but saw me in the corridors regularly between classes. They mostly saw me as male, or didn't know what to think. One guy called me '*******' all the time. Strange, that.
I also had an odd dress sense, in that I never followed one style or trend. I would be in baggy jeans and an oversized t-shirt one day, and a nice suit and tie the next. I remember every time I wore a suit, I'd run into this guy at lunch. He'd always say, 'Hey, man, why you wearin' a tux?' and I'd just say 'It's not a tux, it's a suit,' and go on my way.
By high school, most people had either gotten used to me, or got bored and didn't bother tormenting me anymore.
However, when I was in choirs in high school, all girls were required to wear dresses as the uniform for all performances. And when you're performing as many as 50 times a month, that gets REALLY annoying. So I was really conflicted. I was being required to project an image that I hated, and was actually treated differently by the choir members when I was in the uniform. That made no sense to me-- I'm the same person, I just happen to be wearing something different than I normally do.
As far as the difference between girls and boys, I don't really remember too much, apart from the fact that the boys were more likely to make fun of me-- but then, most bullies tend to be boys so that's not a really good indicator. I think, actually, that the guys I interacted with were more intimidated by me than the girls were. That was probably because I projected a 'tougher' image toward the guys and was more relaxed toward the girls. I was adopting a male attitude-- guys can be roughed around with, but be gentler with the girls. Or something.
Anyway, I've just confused myself and it's 3.40 am so I'm gonna stop talking. Haha

[CaptLex]

I am thinking that for a female CD who has been allowed to externalise her internal feelings for years, to suddenly face being put inside a closet, must be a major blow and must create resentment. I can imagine that a female CD must hate her peers for becoming "bimbos" and probably hate men for relating to women as sexual objects to be chased after.
Yup, Satrana, you hit that nail on the head. Also (and I'm just speaking for myself here), seeing how much some MtF CD's idealize a so-called "perfect" image of the female form confuses me. It's like it's not enough to project a feminine image, but the perfect feminine image. I don't think that exists - except maybe in Hollywood and after much cosmetic manipulation.


How did you guys get through your teenage years? I presume most of you refused to succumb to presenting a girly look. Were you endlessly tormented by others? Was there any difference between how girls and boys treated you?
As a kid I had to wear whatever my parents made me wear, no matter how much I hated it. I guess I got through it by pretending I was playing dress-up. Once I hit 12 or 13 I was strongly objecting to everything I was told to wear and by 14, when I got my first summer job, I spent it all on the clothes I wanted to wear. They couldn't object because it was my money. :devil: I think (like Abraxas mentioned), my family thought it was a phase I would outgrow. My mother doesn't really like dresses either (except for special occasions), so she didn't complain too much about my not wanting them by then, but my father tried to insist that I wear them. By the time I hit the full-fledged teen rebellion years (and ties, vests, etc. became a regular part of my wardrobe), they pretty much gave up on that.

In fact, in retrospect, my therapist tells me my father may have understood and accepted more than I realize, when I mentioned that he taught me baseball, how to drive, how to mix a good rum and Coke and how to tie a tie. He treated my sister more like a princess and never (thank God) tried that with me. I guess he figured I was as close as he would get to a son. I have no idea what he thinks of me now (we haven't spoken in many years), but my mother thinks I'm a lesbian. She's always complaining that my hair is too short, etc. I don't think she wants me to be girly, necessarily, but just not as butch as I appear to her.

As far as my childhood/teen peers . . . I wasn't tormented, but I was kind of ostracized. The only ones that wanted to hang out with me were other outcasts and misfits of our society. However, in high school I made a lot of male friends (my "brothers") and they let me hang out with them - even talking about "guys only" stuff in my company. I also had a very good female friend who was kind of like me (I didn't know what to call it back then). She called herself by a male name and preferred boys' clothes too. She and I used to punch each other and wrestle. I tried to look her up last year and found out that she had passed away. Too bad, I would have like to talk to her about all this stuff. C'est la vie. :p

[SherryLynn GG]

I understand everything you say and understand why you think you are not CDing, but I also understand that you are examining this question from the reality of today's inequality. If you imagined a world of equality for both genders then men wearing skirts would no longer be CDs either.


Let me put up another teaser - why are GGs so adamant that they are not CDs? If you accept the rationale that everyone should all be allowed to dress as they please (within reason) then why reject the notion that women are crossdressing for fun/preference? What is so wrong with CDing in the first place?


First--We live in reality so why should I not answer that way?? The world is how it is and unfortunately if I imagine a different world when I answer a question its not gonna make it true...The truth is the ONLY honest answer, Reality is the only honest answer. If I could live in a imaginary world where everything was perfect and everyone got what they wanted id be a size 10 supermodel, BUT we dont live in that world so we just have to be real withourselves

Second--I am adamant that im not a CD because first of all I dont wear mens clothing, dont own a single thing of a mans...I dont ever try to look like a man when I wear my womens clothing, I dont ever feel like a man when I wear anything, and i dont ever wanna feel like a man....I dont wear mens clothing for fun or comfort, im 100% woman...so how could i be a CD??

And I never said there is anything wrong with CDing, I support it 100%, but I do not agree that because a woman is wearing womens jeans it makes her a CD, I do not agree that because a woman doesnt own heels she is a CD, or because she doesnt wear makeup she's a CD...in my opinion anyone who says that is just trying to say these things to make themselves feel that CDing is ok..."well all women do it, so why cant I" Maybe im wrong, but thats what im seeing, when in fact all women arent CDs...I 100% believe that statement to be incorrect....I wear what I want sure, but its all womens clothing and I am a woman all the time, never even feel or look male 1% of the time, so to call me a CD just to make you feel better doesnt make sense to me......I guess being a GG and never dealing with something like this or ever wanting something like this may be why I feel this way, but I am living with a CD as we speak so I know what he goes thru, and I know how he feels but he even agrees that im in no way a CD....I mean honestly you can label me how you want if it'll make you feel better about your dressing, but in the real world which we actually live in, im not and never will be.....

Again not trying to offend anyone or anything with this post, just wanna get my opinion out there :)

[Satrana]

Thanks guys for feedback. Sounds like you guys just dig in your heels and developed a thick skin. Also since you have been dealing with gender issues since early childhood then you were probably more prepared to take on the challenge of those difficult teenage years.

I can see that closeted MTFs have an easier time of it since everything is hidden and we can easily pretend to fit in and go with the expected behaviour even though it pains us inside. Those teenage years are bad enough to get through without having to deal with crossdressing on top. You guys are way braver than I am:hugs:

[Satrana]

First--We live in reality so why should I not answer that way??
Because reality means illogical double standards, which means you are comparing apples and oranges. You cannot prove or disprove anything unless you can look at an issue from an equal playing field.


Second--I am adamant that im not a CD because first of all I dont wear mens clothing, dont own a single thing of a mans...I dont ever try to look like a man when I wear my womens clothing, I dont ever feel like a man when I wear anything, and i dont ever wanna feel like a man....I dont wear mens clothing for fun or comfort, im 100% woman...so how could i be a CD?? I am quite happy to believe you, my posts were never meant to be taken personally, sorry if you thought that. But just because a woman does not own actual men's clothing does not mean she is not a CD. Unless she is crossdressing for gender reasons, it is the look of the clothes that is important. It makes no difference about who made the clothes for whom if you are crossdressing for your own style/preference. I own feminine clothes that were specifically made to fit my male body - I do not view these any differently from actual female clothing.


And I never said there is anything wrong with CDing, I support it 100%, but I do not agree that because a woman is wearing womens jeans it makes her a CD, I was never arguing this in the first place as I am not interested in that old worn-out argument. If you reread my original posts, I was debating that if you do see an individual woman dressed from top to bottom in an obvious masculine theme, and behaving in a masculine way, but she is not trying to hide her female gender then she may well be a CD but neither she nor society would recognize her as such due to the double standards.

If she is dressing in a masculine manner for her own fashion preference then she is doing the same thing that some MTF CDs do as well. Either both are CDs nor neither are. Take your pick.

You have to take into account that the double standards results in male and female (preference) CDs taking different paths through life. Males remain closeted in over-effeminate fantasy dressing, females naturalize their crossdressing and blend into the background due to the widespread adoption of androgynous female fashion.

[privateperks]

How did you guys get through your teenage years? I presume most of you refused to succumb to presenting a girly look. Were you endlessly tormented by others? Was there any difference between how girls and boys treated you?


I guess I didn't have too easy a time of it. My parents were told to force me to wear as much girl stuff as possible so I kept a change of guys clothes at school and switched as soon as I got off the bus usually. The problem with this was of course that everyone knew I was switching into guy's clothes (I only had one set of clothes unfortunately, my mother watched my ass like a hawk) and that after a while, no matter how often you wash stuff - after a certain time it does start to look pretty grubby. Gym class was the worst though. We all had to shower, I wasn't getting undressed for anyone in front of a bunch of girls so I showered with my clothes on and hoped that they would somehow magically dry inside my locker by the next day. They never did so I was always mildly damp or dressed like a hobo. If I'd been more flexible or better at planning I could have avoided a lot of the nasty comments and tricks the other kids played on me. It got really bad after my cousins turned fifteen and started churning out the babies though. Everytime I'd see them "I've got so and so many kids now, when are you going to start acting like a woman blah blah." My usual reply was "oh yeah? well I'm getting a highschool diploma." Compared to all that shit, dressing now is a piece of cake when I look back on it.

[CaptLex]

Wow, Perks, you went through a lot of crap . . . you're the man! :notworthy:

[noname]

privateperks: Sorry to hear you had to go through all that.


I do not agree that because a woman is wearing womens jeans it makes her a CD, I do not agree that because a woman doesnt own heels she is a CD, or because she doesnt wear makeup she's a CD...in my opinion anyone who says that is just trying to say these things to make themselves feel that CDing is ok..."well all women do it, so why cant I" Maybe im wrong, but thats what im seeing, when in fact all women arent CDs...I 100% believe that statement to be incorrect....I wear what I want sure, but its all womens clothing and I am a woman all the time, never even feel or look male 1% of the time, so to call me a CD just to make you feel better doesnt make sense to me......I guess being a GG and never dealing with something like this or ever wanting something like this may be why I feel this way, but I am living with a CD as we speak so I know what he goes thru, and I know how he feels but he even agrees that im in no way a CD....I mean honestly you can label me how you want if it'll make you feel better about your dressing, but in the real world which we actually live in, im not and never will be.....

There are many religous groups that would consider you a cd. While you may cd on a daily basis, society says it's ok for you do that. You will never endure ostricized, snickers, or sly comments. Strangely, a wide variety of pants are now considered women only, such as gouches and the like. Which I can not wrap my head around. I would like to add that just because society says something is ok, does not make it logical. Kind of like how it's ok for guys to be fat or sleep around, it's not considered ok for women to be either. It's just the world we live in.

[Satrana]

It got really bad after my cousins turned fifteen and started churning out the babies though. Everytime I'd see them "I've got so and so many kids now, when are you going to start acting like a woman blah blah." My usual reply was "oh yeah? well I'm getting a highschool diploma." Compared to all that shit, dressing now is a piece of cake when I look back on it.

Wow! that sounds like a living hell! I thought I had it bad by wearing spectacles at school. Would it be fair to say that you were unable to make any real friends? Thinking back, school was a nightmare for anybody who do not fit in. Even if other kids thought you are ok, they still would not associate with you for fear of stigmitization by association. This is still a problem for our SOs in adulthood.

I think staying in the closet through school is probably the wisest option, the problem is that you can get used to it and find it hard to later lower down the barricades. You just end up stunting your personal growth and dwell in fantasy crossdressing.

Again I take my hats off to you guys to staying true to yourselves.

[privateperks]

Wow - Capt Lex said I'm the man! :D

Satrana - well, I was never good at the friend thing anyways. We moved a lot so I never spent a lot of time in any one school. I did have one really good friend in the seventh grade. And I went to boarding school my last two years of highschool and made a few friends there.

[cassandra006]

I'm turned on when I dress as woman or man's suit, i'm a GM I love who I am as a guy or gurl :D , just that i cant dress as girl in public....... or can I? :heehee:

[mikala]

I often wonder if my wife CDs. I came into the bedroom once and she was wearing my underwear (jocky briefs) looking in the mirror.... she said that she didn't have anything clean and wondered if these (my shorts) would be ok...

I ignored the situation, but I should have embraced it.... then she took them off and went into her dressing room.

What should I think ?

Love

Mikala

[Shadowls]

the reson i dress or "dress my self down" is because i find guys clothies confortable, cheap, last long and easy to care for. most of the female clothing i would love to wear are designed for women to "sit there and be pritty" in. it kinda goes back tok why i am the way i am.

guy can have fun, they can get dirty and no one yells at them.
dressed as a girl i can have a line of hormone drive guys fallowing my around.
i heat the idea of using some one, or not letting them see what they are getting them self into.

i learned that if i was one of the guys, i could get the attention and friendship i wanted with out the bs of the guys trying to impress me.

[Felix]

Wow this is a great thread it's made me think. I know what those of you meant when you said how much it bugs ya when people say how pretty ya would look in a dress rather than ya masculine look. It used to bug the life out of me when I was younger but it had negative results on me and to keep the peace I tried to be more feminine Lol ofcourse that never worked even though I persisted with it. I have always been more comfortable in mens clothes, well those that fit me cos i'm small lol. I kinda look at myself as queer and I certainly have gender issues else I wouldn't be here.
All I can say is good for you if you like crossdressing for what ever reason everyone to there own. Fluidity thats the key! I just wish society was more tolerable of difference and the world would be a better place. Silva :hugs:

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello, I'm the variable. (one of them anyway)

I am a heterosexual Genetic Female who crossdresses.

Why?

It feels exhilerating. This is a really hard question to answer because other than that I don't really know why I crossdress. I used to think that as a woman I was an inferior human being so I wanted to be a male in order to experience the ease of life that men are given. I soon discovered this couldn't be any further from the truth, and that I was just sipping the cup of gender stereotypes. Gender-stereotypes (and any other stereotypes) are a load of horse crap that infuriate me, gender can be really fluid, and trying to act up to the 'social pressure' is not for me. Playing video games and heavy smoking and drinking isn't going to make me a boy, playing with barbies and being obsessed with shoe shopping isn't going to make me a girl. What does clothing have anything to do with it then?

I am who I am, sometimes that means that I express to the world that I am a boy, most of the time I potray a female exterior. That's just how it works.

I know I didn't answer your question and I probably contradicted myself a couple of times, I think I may have confused myself. So here's the short version, I crossdress because I just feel like it (call it a hobby), and because I like to f*ck with people's minds.

Hello,
As a MTF CD these words that you have spoken are exactly my sentiments too. Letter for letter, word for word. Thank you:happy: You spoke with eloquence and accuracy, at least from my point of view. I certainly could not have spoken any better. :2c: