Would you agree that we ALL have a male and female side to ourselves?

[Jean GG]

I believe we ALL have a male and female side...! Do you??? Is it just a matter of degree? It would be great to know what you all think about this...thanks! jean

[loki_uk]

Most times its a mix of both, it's only when I dress up that girl mode takes over

Mind you it is quite disconcerting to be looking at a girl, and one part of you is thinking phoaaar and the other is thinking nice shoes and skirt I wonder where she bought them from and would they fit me lol

[Sophia Rearen]

By ALL, I assume you mean humans. I'd like to think so, though some men wouldn't dare show their female side. If you mean here on this forum, I'm certain we ALL have a male and female side. To what degree we show, share, reveal or accept may determine how we consider ourselves, TV/CD/TG or TS.

[Jean GG]

By ALL, I assume you mean humans.

yes...I mean ALL of us humans on this planet. :) j.

[Emma England]

All women have masculine traits. All men have feminine traits.

After all we come from a mixture of male and female parents.

The problem is that too many guys in this world refuse to admit their feminine side - as in this big macho image. :mad: Men that admit and show their feminine beauty are more mature in their attitude. 0.02

[Jean GG]

Mind you it is quite disconcerting to be looking at a girl, and one part of you is thinking

you are indeed funny loki...I thought you would find it 'quiet disconcerning to be lookin at a girl and one part of you is thinking: nice shoes...while the other is saying...I wonder how dominant her male side is.......LAUGH!!! :) j.

[Joy3]

I believe you are 100% correct. I have known the girl in me for many years however initially I found it very hard to accept her. In recent years I have come to welcome her as a very important part of me.

This premise also applies to my wife as she is clearly much more aroused when I am wearing a nightgown and panties. She becomes the agressor which is traditionally the male role.

Love and kisses.

Joy

[Jean GG]

Men that admit and show their feminine beauty are more mature in their attitude. 0.02

Sorry Emma...can't agree you wholeheartedly on this one...problem with my husband is his immaturity...and he has no major problem with his feminine side, or so he says.

Separately, from what I have learned on this forum (AND I KNOW MANY OF YOU DON'T AGREE...so stick to the question at hand) is that you really CAN tell a lot about one's level of maturity based on how they dress...and many...don't dress very maturely...but...this is NOT the question here...there was a whole thread dedicated to dressing and maturity, started by me, if anyone wishes to review it. :) j

[loki_uk]

you are indeed funny loki...I thought you would find it 'quiet disconcerning to be lookin at a girl and one part of you is thinking: nice shoes...while the other is saying...I wonder how dominant her male side is.......LAUGH!!! :) j.

Blimey do you know me lol, but yeah that as well :heehee:

[Jean GG]

This premise also applies to my wife as she is clearly much more aroused when I am wearing a nightgown and panties. She becomes the agressor which is traditionally the male role.

Love and kisses.

Joy

Good one Joy...and how does your male and female sides feel about this? :) jean

[Wendy me]

I believe we ALL have a male and female side...! Do you??? Is it just a matter of degree? It would be great to know what you all think about this...thanks! jean



yes i do belive we all have a male and female side to us ....


thing is we are tought at a early age to be and act as the gender we are born in .... then we have the people that are open minded and aware of the fact that we have the gift to be able to be a little of bouth male and female

and when we open our own minds that this is ok and there is nouthing wrong with this gender dabbling we do then we have grown as "PEOPLE".....

[Joy3]

I love being made love to by my wife, so apparently my male side does not object.

Frankly I am much more aroused when I am in the female role[traditionally speaking].

Joy

[Lynn]

I think everyone has a male and female side or masculin an feminine side. Just there are some people out there who will not admit to it.

my 0.02 worth

[tekla west]

I've never been much on the binary Either/Or choice. Its not male and female, its both. No reason a man can't be as nurturing as a woman - and for sure you don't have to look very far to find women who are a nurturing as a Praying Mantis - i.e., creatures who eat their young. Jung sugguest that we are both male and female, yin and yang - see lengthy endnote attached.

Why can't I savor the Eroica Trio one night and be diggin' on Slayer crankin' it out with (stage) blood raining down on them the next evening? Dressed to the nines in a trendy nouvelle cuisine restaurant sipping a nice Chandon or kickin' on the beach roasting hot-dogs on an open fire and pulling a toke off a spliff the size of Baltimore - do I have to choose ONE? Can't I do both?

I'll be the first to admit I'm kinda odd. Matter of fact its one of the things I like about me the most. I know a lot of people who have doctoral degrees. I know a lot of people who are journeymen craft-union card holders. I don't know anyone besides myself who has both. (I'm sure there are a few, I just don't know them yet. Perhaps i should start a web site. I do know a woman who has an MD, hated it and became an Over-the-Road owner/operator truck driver, so that is close.)

To quote from Robert Heinlein - "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."





Lengthy endnote on Jung's theory, courtesy of Shippensburg University's web site.

Anima and animus

A part of our persona is the role of male or female we must play. For most people that role is determined by their physical gender. But Jung, like Freud and Adler and others, felt that we are all really bisexual in nature. When we begin our lives as fetuses, we have undifferentiated sex organs that only gradually, under the influence of hormones, become male or female. Likewise, when we begin our social lives as infants, we are neither male nor female in the social sense. Almost immediately -- as soon as those pink or blue booties go on -- we come under the influence of society, which gradually molds us into men and women.

In all societies, the expectations placed on men and women differ, usually based on our different roles in reproduction, but often involving many details that are purely traditional. In our society today, we still have many remnants of these traditional expectations. Women are still expected to be more nurturant and less aggressive; men are still expected to be strong and to ignore the emotional side of life. But Jung felt these expectations meant that we had developed only half of our potential.

The anima is the female aspect present in the collective unconscious of men, and the animus is the male aspect present in the collective unconscious of women. Together, they are refered to as syzygy. The anima may be personified as a young girl, very spontaneous and intuitive, or as a witch, or as the earth mother. It is likely to be associated with deep emotionality and the force of life itself. The animus may be personified as a wise old man, a sorcerer, or often a number of males, and tends to be logical, often rationalistic, even argumentative.

The anima or animus is the archetype through which you communicate with the collective unconscious generally, and it is important to get into touch with it. It is also the archetype that is responsible for much of our love life: We are, as an ancient Greek myth suggests, always looking for our other half, the half that the Gods took from us, in members of the opposite sex. When we fall in love at first sight, then we have found someone that "fills" our anima or animus archetype particularly well!

[Jean GG]

Tekla...you challange me...and I like that! I will need to re-read your post when I have not had a couple of glasses of chardonney...:) jean

[melissacd]

I thought I would post this again as it seems apropos:

There is a certain beauty and elegance in the feminine ideal that I find very attractive. I appreciate that being a woman is very very hard work, especially if you are a working mother with children. I realize that it is not all just the glamorous parts (clothes, hair, make-up, shoes). I enjoy exploring the wonderful aspects of being feminine, exterior and interior. I desire to reclaim my femininty without losing my masculinity. I believe that we need both.

Some feminine, not specifically female, traits:

- being sensitive to the needs of others
- being a good listener
- being supportive
- being intuitive
- being emotionally expressive
- looking sensual, being sensual
- being soft, yet assertive
- having feminine mannerisms when you feel like it
- creating warmth and comfort for those around you
- being caring and compassionate
- being creative with that certain girlish flair
- having a sense of style
- avoiding vulgarity as a communication style
- carrying yourself with grace

I love femininity and I believe that it is not just the domain of females. Physiologically, males and females are different, that is true, but not really all that different. Men are encouraged to be tough, competitive and emotionally distant. I feel that takes so much away from your full humanity. It is so limiting.

I feel that men and women both have masculine and femininine personas. Recently, cultural norms have made it acceptable for women to express a very broad range of feminine and masculine characteristics. Men, however, are culturally locked within
their masculine roles. Some, in the transgendered communities are starting to break through this barrier, however, I suspect it will be some time before that wall is knocked down.

I think part of the reason that more men are seeking this alternative life style is that they are tired of the confines of what is culturally acceptable. They are tired of having to be macho, having to be the provider and protector. Those societal norms are starting to shift for women, but men are still waiting in the wings. For some men it is because their pride and ego get in the way of accepting who they really are. For others they are seeing the light, seeing their softer side and just chomping at the bit for when it is okay to express all of who they are.

While the statistics would lead us to believe that only 10% of the male population are cross dressers, I would argue, if you could get an honest answer from most men you would find that in fact the number is more like 90%. How could anyone not want to be a more caring, sensual, intuitive soul...

[sparks]

Gosh I got in shit from wife!
She said "she would like to be the useless female once in awhile!"

[Karren H]

I'd say definately maybe! :). We'll at least for me its more of a blending of both sides all the time. While I may behave more female when dressed and visa-versa, my minds still in combo gender mode. What ever that means.

And I agree that when I look at a woman its with two sets of eyes!! Kind of gives "Love to get into her dress" a whole new meaning!! :D

And I really love women...maybe too much that I dress like them? I don't know.. But I guess that if Imitation is really the sincerest form of flattery, then we should have a lot more women cheering us on than we do! Hehehe. Wonder if the wife will buy that??

Love Karren

[Han]

tekla west - Preety good stuff. Too much nature and not enough nurture though. Gender, although more often that not assigned to the sexes and often steming from particular physical traits, such as giving birth, is quite often created by a society, and then dished out to the sexes. More often than not to establish order. We can look at various quirks in past societies to see that women and men have never been given the same roles.

In Japan, becuase crossdressing as a historical and acceptable routes, it is considered less 'wrong' than in Europe and North America. Although it is still considered part of the 'out' scence. That is becuase of a social descision to accept it more.

[Julie York]

Gosh I got in shit from wife!
She said "she would like to be the useless female once in awhile!"

I've seen her attempts at rebuilding a gearbox. Tell her she's crap. Is she happy now?


:D

[annekathleen]

Definately agree!!!!!!!

[eleventhdr]

And so mnay time's the feminine side can and does dominate.

Oh well there just might be far worse stuff in this old world then admitting that the female and or male might be the one you really do want to be hmmm!:

Just thinking on it most of the time.

Even in the strangest of time's and places it is most always there!.

Jay Suzy!:

[Marla S]

Anima and animus

A part of our persona is the role of male or female we must play. For most people that role is determined by their physical gender. But Jung, like Freud and Adler and others, felt that we are all really bisexual in nature. When we begin our lives as fetuses, we have undifferentiated sex organs that only gradually, under the influence of hormones, become male or female. Likewise, when we begin our social lives as infants, we are neither male nor female in the social sense. Almost immediately -- as soon as those pink or blue booties go on -- we come under the influence of society, which gradually molds us into men and women.

The basic idea here, that male and female attitudes are made by the influence of the society, is in question today (i.e. story of David Reimer). Hormones might not only "form" the genitales but also have influence on the brain. Meaning there is a biological basis (differenciation in the womb) for the genders which can not be influenced or reversed completaly by the society.
If so, there is no complete free choice to "form" a gender, but the society has the free choice how the genders or gender attitudes are treated (for me the latter is the cruxial point).

To the question.
I'd agree that everybody has a male and a female side, though I am not quite sure what is meant by it or how it is defined.
All humans have some attitudes that society would label male or female. But are these respective attitudes of biological or of social nature ? The latter would mean that they are artificial and can be changed, shared or interconverted.

[Stephanie]

I have always struggled with this particular concept. Personally, I believe that "masculine" and "feminine" distinctions are essentially "social constructs" and do not have the same basis in reality as what we are physically. If you accept the "social constructs" of "masculinity" and "femininity," then I agree that everybody has "facets" of our personality that run the gamut. The degree to which people express this diversity appears to differ widely as well. It is a shame how some people are made to feel badly because of how they choose to express themselves and how that, in my opinion, limits their potential.

[tekla west]

Well its nature, its nurture. Its sex, and also gender. No doubt lots of social and cultural stuff mixed in too.

We have a good solid 15 years of academic writing and research on this, and it comes out all over the spectrum. There are theories and more theories, and a ton of sheer speculation, anecdotal evidence masquerading as statical studies, and just plain old conjecture.

There is no simple solution, no simple way out - given that, I don't think there is a need to reinvent the wheel either. There is plenty of stuff on the web try "gender theory" and "queer theory" that ought to give you a few millions sites to start with.

[Marla S]

Well its nature, its nurture. Its sex, and also gender. No doubt lots of social and cultural stuff mixed in too.

We have a good solid 15 years of academic writing and research on this, and it comes out all over the spectrum. There are theories and more theories, and a ton of sheer speculation, anecdotal evidence masquerading as statical studies, and just plain old conjecture.

There is no simple solution, no simple way out - given that, I don't think there is a need to reinvent the wheel either. There is plenty of stuff on the web try "gender theory" and "queer theory" that ought to give you a few millions sites to start with.
You are right.
But you know what ? The Why is complete irrelevant.
Research on the Why is a waste of time.
At least as long there is no research and progress on how to teach the society acceptance. That's the real problem and not the Why.

[GG Vanya]

I believe we ALL have a male and female side...! Do you??? Is it just a matter of degree? It would be great to know what you all think about this...thanks! jean


Oh but of course I agree Jean! I just keep *my* male side stored in the nightstand drawer until the appropriate time to express it! :D :evil: :D

[Teresa Amina]

"Sides" sounds schizo. What we have are best descibed as Aspects, and these are differently "assorted" for each of us. Some have a male "side" which is real macho but are extremely feminine in "female" mode, others aren't too different except in appearance between the two.

[Dee 1062]

I'm blonde and I even know that:)

[Gaby]

At least that's the way I see it, too. I change how I look, not who I am.

However, it seems to be different for many others...

Gaby

[tekla west]

Much like the theories, social acceptance is all over the map also. Life is very different for expression of gender variation depending on geographical location, political leanings and social/cultural factors. Places like San Fran, New York are more tolerant - or at least care a lot less then small rural Podunk towns. But even there its changing in some places.

San Francisco has a long, and quite colorful history of deviation from the norm. So it came almost naturally that hippies, gays, and later, gender variance communities found a home here.

I don't know much about German society and culture, so I don't know how fast or slow such change might be accomplished. American society - at least in some places - accords a high value to difference, non-conformity and social experimentation. Other places are bastions of fundamental religion, social conformity and view almost all change as bad. Pretty much we are split down the middle as our messed-up third world type elections of late would indicate. So while some places become more free, others become more reactionary. The overall acceptance of gender expressions is but one facet of this.

So while acceptance grows fast in some places, its shrinking in others. So, a lot of us work to change things where we can, and try our best to ignore the rest.

[Bernadina]

Funny that we should have both male and female characteristics.

Must have something to do with the fact that it took both a male and female to make us.

Unless of course someone has figured out how 2 men or 2 women could conceive a baby without the other sex being involved.

[Marla S]

I don't know much about German society and culture,

In Germany it isn't that much different, maybe except for the fundamental christians. We might have a few but they have no influence (yet).
Urban areas are more tolerant than rural. There are differences between the north and the south, the east and the west. Even in Berlin (quite open minded), where I live, I wouldn't go everywhere.

[Jazmine Star]

well of course we got male and female "sides". Men have nipples. Hard to think that men may have a female trait "physically", but not mentally.

I think that mens' repressing of their female sides manifests in seriously bad ways, such as depression, guilt, hostility, violence. Its just not healthy to repress your female aspects - but thats what "society" demands, strictly defined gender roles.

[Charleen]

Count me in as a yes vote that we are both male and female. On another post, I wondered if beside starting out the same until the genes kick in, that maybe we have more estrogen then other men. I honestly don't know. I do know however about me. I have both and whether you want to call them sides, aspects, or whatever, I am a dual person. I kidded on another post about being schitzo. In truth, I think I'm right, and happy for it. As been said I now enjoy the best of both worlds, and live somewhat up to Heinlein's quote. (my favorite author btw). Since Lily was liberated I have definitely become a much better human being in ALL aspects of my life. Bottom line is that regardless of the reasons, I am male and female together and damn glad for it. Got to admit that Lily is the stronger of the two, and you what? I wouldn't have it any other way. Love and xxxx, Lily

[Melanie R]

Every embryo is female until 6-8 weeks when the harmonal wash begins. Everyone has both masculine and feminine components to their personality and genes. Some of us like myself were born intersexed while most in our community have a higher percentage of femininity in our harmonal and gene balance. Obviously there are many men in our society who have excessive tetesterone and could benefit from having more femininity in their balance. There are also some women who could benefit from having more masculinity in their balance.

The important factor is finding a balance between your femininity and masculinity.

Just my thoughts.

Melanie

[MarinaTwelve200]

No---Not necessarily anyway. SOme of us CD to ESCAPE ourselves (and sometimes associated "manhood")

Us "escapists" are not trying to go to our "fem side", if indeed it exists, but rather get away from our RL selves---This gives us a RUSH from crossing the Brain barrier "identity line" but also allows us to divest ourselves of all the worried and stresses associated with our other identity--and even our "manhood" if only a few hours. Its the ultimate stress releif, relaxarion , saftey valve, We become another person all together. with no "fixed" "fem identity"

I suppose That may be a clue----if we have multiple "Looks", blonde sometimes, brunette other, ****, lady, etc. Then one may not have A fem identity, but only becomes "female"---under different forms from time to time.

A true "fem side idenity" would be a generally consistant image.

We have different underlying motivations for CDing---some of us DO have a fem side they express, others dont--to an escapist the fem mode is the "not me" mode.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

We all have personality traits and behaviors. Society deems some of them "feminine" and some "masculine." And different societies draw the lines differently.

Some of it is biological -- there have been neurological studies that monitor activity that do show males and females have different types of brain activity. And certainly those here who've gone on hormones can attest to their effect -- although there's always the issue of placebo effects (i.e. people have heard what to expect, so do they convince themselves into those effects.

Some of it is clearly social. One only need look at the different ideas about what "being a "man" or "being a woman" are in different cultures, as well as those ideas have changed over time.

And often it has to do as much as style as with substance. Imagine a woman who has a special spray bottle to water her plant, talks to it, carefully trims the dead leaves, etc. Then imagine a man who grabs a glass of water and pours it on the plant, then prunes it distractedly while half-watching the TV and then rotates the plant because he heard that what's you're supposed to do. Effectively all either of them has done is watered the plant. Yet, one behavior would probably be called "nuturing" and one wouldn't.

Yes, it's true that males and females as a group tend to exhibit certain traits. But neither of those tell you much about individuals, who fall all over the spectrum. The Bem Sex Role Inventory test posited about four groupings:
- high masculine, low feminine (i.e. stereotypically "masculine")
- high feminine, low masculine (i.e. stereotypically "feminine")
- high masculine and feminine (what Bem called "androgynous")
- low masculine and feminine (what Bem called "undifferentiated")
and IIRC, a good number of men and women tested fell outside the "norms" for their gender.

As someone infinitely wiser than me said, we really ought to be willing to let people define themselves how they will.

[sparks]

I've seen her attempts at rebuilding a gearbox. Tell her she's crap. Is she happy now?


:D

:heehee: Now That should work! OHH coming dear...:rolleyes:

[swiss_susan]

No I don't believe that to be true.

Personally I believe that we all have our personalities, and they just are. People may at time be closer to one or the other end of the "male/female" spectrum.

I certainly don't think one can take all things "male" and put them in one box, and all things "female" in another.

Just my thoughts

Susan

[Kimberly]

Sex is on the outside.

Gender is on the inside - and so can't be seen as easily.

Both male and female hormones are present in the same body.

FTW. :)

[Kate Simmons]

One word Jean. Absolutely! Ericka

[Joy Carter]

Hey Jean I know I'd be happy if society would accept me as being able to both rebuild that gearbox and be a good domestic with out being figured for a total fag. I'm convinced it's the sex thing that is on peoples minds when they cast their judgement.:Angry3:

[yvonne10]

yes i agree its fine for a G.G to wear jeans and a baggy t shirt but if a man puts on a skirt he is a freak

[janedoe311]

Yes we all have a male and female side. At least of those that are "healthy". We can not survive without both sides.

[janine]

I agree ,every one has two sides men have a feminine side just a women
have a masculine side . As children we are bought up according to our
gender appropriate role.In our daily lives we juggle this balance of male and
female side of our natures. In cross dressers like us we are more honest with
our selves and in touch with our feminine sides as we act out our male role
for society. We are the honest ones , this accounts or the large number
of guests that visit this site ,how many of them are closet cross dressers not
being honest with them selves.

[ava_bruna]

Why is it alot of people wont admit to this????? is it cause they are shy, scared, or just plain to much M / F ? I for one feel very fem more then male I think even tho I am able to talk to the wife as such
Those who know me , know my wife has dementure and this in itself make's me upset and take's away from my desire's to dress all that much in front of her, Heaven forbid at some point she let's it all out to the kid's unknowing that I kinna hope she does so it will all come out and I will lose this feeling of shame. why shame? I dont know really, maybe cause so many say it is and I read so much of the down side of dressing, but im going to cont and do what I can, when I can and how I can, Ta Ta,

[Elizabeth Anne]

Yes, by all means. After my wife found out about my CD'ing, she said that one of the things that attracted her to me that I was sincere, caring, & just overall "different" from all the other guys she had met prior to me.
On the other had, I think CD'ers have more of a submissive/feminine side.(I know I do)

Beth

[cindyxdresser]

I totally agree,i have been told that i am more feminine in every way when dressed up.I have noticed that i do have a feminine side and a masculine side and what i am wearing doesnt have any influence on it

[ArleneRaquel]

I have both a male and female side, but the former is slowly but surely fading. :love: From Katrina

[eleyna]

Psychologically referred to as anima and animus. Lots of "experts" believe we do. Don't know if I'd argue with them :)

[Jennaie]

Yes, I would agree with you 100%

[Amiad]

Male and Female side?

I dont know if I would put it quite in those terms. While I have been reading many of these posts for months from the cheap seats and I thought it was time to write something.

Expression of our "male/female sides" is currently being done with clothing. Clothes are a very new addition to our species and have nothing to do with sexuality or gender. They are just the current way to express who we feel we are within the spectrum of our species.

Within our species there are the extreemly dominate Alpha males and the (I dont know what they are called) Extreemly feminine females. When you exclude the extreems with pure masculine and pure feminine traits and look at the true median or average. You will find a blending of the two traits that covers alot more than 50%, (more like 90%). Which is where the majority of us fall. WE ARE THE AVERAGE. The rest just dont acknowledge it because of societal pressure.

You dont need to try and define yourself by being "masculine" or "feminine" or having both traits/qualities. The majority of us have both traits/qualities. If you only have one trait/quality you are outside the "norm" if you have both (if you are reading this you do have both) then I am sorry to say you are just plain old normal!

Amiad

PS How do I post a picture?

[Honey Lynn]

Well I'm more of a ball so I'd answer I have a male semi sphere and a female semi sphere, with a huge equator inbetween:D

[Deborah]

Although i would happily give up all my male parts and switch to the female role in life i do occasionally like to play flight simulator and first person shooter games to blow things up. ;)

So yes i believe it to be possible. :D

[angelfire]

I would have to say yes. Everyone has a female side, and a male side, no matter how well they hide it, or how they act. It may be very small, but its there. Its called balance.

[Melanie]

I thought I would post this again as it seems apropos:

How could anyone not want to be a more caring, sensual, intuitive soul...

I agreed with a lot of what you said Melissa especially that last bit.I believe that in some of our cases that dressing can lead to a softening of our male personalities,so in actuality we become somewhat of a nurturing,compassionate type.I know that happens to me and my aggression disipates completely unless threatened.
In short I'm a nicer,more patient person when dressed.

Hugs,

Melanie :hugs:

[Ellaine]

It's a part of self, once discovered can never be ignored. :)