Last (Serious) Question before I go away for a while

[Jean GG]

My husband and I have a communication problem which could be the source of many of our problems. It's NOT that he refuses to communicate, but usually he CANNOT talk about things for more than 1/2 hour...1 hour max before he gets totally overwhelmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I then insist on us going forward...and the results can be CATASTROPHIC!!! I know this is a typical marriage pattern: The more the man withdraws, the more the woman insists.

I find our THIRD therapist just as useless as the prior two...and I am getting more and more worn out, we both are...! A friend suggested a new one, but I currently don't have it in me to tell my story once more to a total strager.........!

HAVE YOU ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW I CAN COMMUNICATE MORE EFFECTIVELY with him without overwhelming him??? DO ANY OF YOU EXPERIENCE THE SAME helpelessness when it comes to talking??? I thought the sensitivity of his cd side would have made it easier for him to express himself and be a little more perceptive, but it does NOT seem to be so!

I am learning to respect my husbands limits BUT how will we ever resolve anything if everything is always discussed peacemeal (?) and one of us always ends feeling angry (him) or anxiety striken (me)???

Sorry for the lack of more FUN threads...maybe one of these days I will be able to show my funny and devious side..........Thanks again...Jean

[tvgirl4fun]

I think you have to keep looking for the right therapist. At least you're both aware of the issue and are looking for answers.

Have you tried spreading the time between questions out a little bit? Ask a question, get an answer, then wait maybe two minutes before the next question?

Good luck! Jaie

[jennig]

hi your husband might only be able to handle this for only short periods of time insted of pussing him to keep going and it lead to a fight go in small amounts dont push him and understand maney people will withdraw and not put the time into any conversation thal makes them feel wrong. as far as a new counsler goes try to take baby steps first and then see whear it gos.
ps most counslers are a waist if time if both partys are not ready.

love jennig0.02

[michelleliz]

I agree with a waswt of timke I haqvent found one that did any think but take my money and then still want more

michelle liz

[Bernadina]

Wow. And I get overwhelmed after 5 minutes. Yes, I agree with what's been said. Slow down a bit.

[Jill]

I certainly admire your dedication and love that you have for your husband. If only all men were so lucky. There are a lot of people hear who would loooove to give you advice on your communication but we really don't know how you communicate and it's very hard to really get a feel for that without seeing it first hand. I'm sorry that I could not be more help, but I do wish you the best of luck and I also want to say that I really like your avatar for some reason. It's beautiful and artistic to me and I quite like it. Again, good luck, you're dedication is admirable.

[GG Vanya]

Jean,

I am so sorry you are having these problems. :sad:

While I have no suggestions about the length of time your husband can talk with you, the one thing I learned early on with Trudi and our discussions (which could literally last all night) was to preface my comments with "I feel" instead of "you"...for example:

I feel you don't spend enough time with me. vs. You don't spend enough time with me.

The latter comes across as an accusation and/or condemnation. Edited to add the word "indictment"....I couldn't think of the word I wanted to use originally.

Just that simple change made tons of difference in my ability to communicate my feelings without either of us getting defensive or angry.

It's possible your therapists or counselors have already advised you both on this point, but if not, I hope it helps in some small way.

You'll be in my thoughts friend.

[Marla S]

Hm. To be honest, I wouldn't know what to talk about for 1 h concerning my CDing (not anymore though). With growing self-acceptance the need for explanations and justifications diminished. It's just the way it is. I want to be accepted and respected for being me and treated normal. Yes, normal. No unjustified rejection on the one side and no exaggerated attention on the other.

(What would you have to tell about your IQ for an hour ? )

[Phoebe Reece]

Jean, without more to go on about how your conversations flow, it's hard to offer specific advice. However, one thing that I have found that makes communication difficult, is when the discussion starts on one topic and quickly goes into multiple issues. For instance a discussion about how much money is being spent on crossdressing can rapidly branch into a discussion about how much money one partner feels the other is wasting on other things, which can branch into a whole discussion about personal management, etc. My advice is to pick your discussion topics carefully and stick to them without exploring side issues that may or may not be related.

[cindybarnes]

Hi Jean,
Not knowing your hubby,, and most importantly Im no expert at ANYTHING,,but I can tell you what came to mind first when reading your post.This is just how I can be sometimes and may not even be close to your situation. My wife and I comunicate pretty well about most issues after 23 years, but some times she will take things I say totaly wrong,even if its not a serious subject. So what I do once I see that kind of reaction is to hesitate about what I say before I say it, trying to phrase my words so she gets my meening. If that doesnt work and she has her mind made up that she knows what Im trying to say. I end the discussion before it turns into a plain argument. I will admit to being very stubborn at times,, maybe its my German herritage ? But often we re open the subject with totaly different results.
I guess my point is when I get frustrated or cant find the words to continue without making matters worse, I just clam up,,, the stubborn thing whatever,this gives me time to think of how to make my point and it gives my wife time to try and get what Im trying to say.
Confused now ? :) well Im trying to remember the last time we went through this and how long it took for us to finish the conversation in a dialogue we both understood. I guess as long as it can work out a little time is a good investment.
Wow I never get this serious in a post,, so hope its just not babbeling on my part.
Good luck to you both
Cindy

[Karren H]

Well, It sure is no fun when a couple can't communicate and it takes two. I took a bunch of of those compnany sponsered leadership thingys..found out long ago that I was a poor listener, .. but I to have a hard time expressing my feelings. And while men typically don't have an attention span that would let then talk about anything for an hour, they should be able to take shorter sessions and start up where they left off. I did learn that I was not paying attention to what the other person was really saying but was thinking of what I wanted to say next. And that you should pay attention and during a 2 second pause after every statement, formulate a response or rebuttle or comment.

And most importantly, after 30 years of marriage, what ever "she who must be obeyed" (said with affection) says, goes..... :)

So hope you don't stay away long and hope we have helped in some small way....

Love Karren

[GG Vanya]

Well, It sure is no fun when a couple can't communicate and it takes two. I took a bunch of of those compnany sponsered leadership thingys..found out long ago that I was a poor listener, .. but I to have a hard time expressing my feelings. And while men typically don't have an attention span that would let then talk about anything for an hour, they should be able to take shorter sessions and start up where they left off. I did learn that I was not paying attention to what the other person was really saying but was thinking of what I wanted to say next. And that you should pay attention and there should be a 2 second pause after every statement. So as to furmulate a response or rebuttle or comment.

And most importantly, after 30 years of marriage, whatt ever "she who must be obeyed" (said with affection) says, goes..... :)

So hope you don't stay away long and hope we have nelped in some small way....

Love Karren

Excellent point Karren! It is so true that some are listeners and some are simply waiting for a chance to speak.:happy:

[Melanie R]

What do you want to communicate that he does not understand and why is your husband becoming overwhelmed? What do you want to hear from your husband and he from you? What are your goals you want to achieve from the communication?

As a retired family therapist of many years these are some of the questions I would ask of you.

Hugs,

Melanie

[Sandygal]

Hi Jean....Just a thought. Before the crossdressing part of your lives came out. Did you and your husband have long question and answer times? Maybe he never was big on talking before, but now you want and need to find out things. Which is understandable. Try slowing down and let everything catch up to you. I don't need a psychiatrist to tell me that I like crossdressing and I sure don't need one to tell my wife I like crossdressing. If you both truly love each other. You will work through it. Don't give up, you care to much.
Best wishes
Sandy

[Calliope]

My husband and I have a communication problem which could be the source of many of our problems. It's NOT that he refuses to communicate, but usually he CANNOT talk about things for more than 1/2 hour...1 hour max before he gets totally overwhelmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[...]

HAVE YOU ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW I CAN COMMUNICATE MORE EFFECTIVELY with him without overwhelming him???

Jean,

Half-hour to an hour, that's the length of an average session so perhaps that's going to have to do. Would setting a timer help? Knowing when the conversation was going to end might relax your guy a bit. Also, importantly: Do you two have anything (fun) set-up for yourselves after your talks? That could also help.

[Billijo49504]

Just for grins, try typing your story out, then just present it to the theropyst. I'd rather do it with pissed. Then you don't have to keep changing it in your mind. You can get all of the little things in it. JMHO..BJ

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Jean, I'm sorry you and your husband are having troubles communicating.

For what it's worth, from what I've seen being a CD is no guarantee that someone is more in touch with their feelings, etc.

I think Karren has some good advice. Something else to consider is whether your husband is an introvert -- not in the sense of being shy, but someone (like me) who needs to process things internally before responding, and often extroverts (who to us introverts seemed to just blurt everything out) don't wait long enough to give them a chance to reply, which leaves both sides feeling frustrated.

I'd also suggest you read Norah Vincent's "Self-Made Man," which talks about her experiment of posing as a man for 18 months. While I don't think her insights profound to someone who grew up male, they seemed fairly revelatory to her (and a number of other woman judging by interviews I saw with her) -- and one of the things she talks about is the difference between the way men and women often communicate. (If you want to know more about the book, I've got a review (http://www.adahlshouse.com/2006/02/05/“self-made-man”/) on my blog.)

Also you might try writing down a letter(s) to you husband about the things you're trying to work out, and asking him to do the same. If he's feeling overwhelmed, it'll will give him more time to process and respond.

I don't know the nature of the problems you're working through, but if you know he's hit tilt after 30-60 minutes maybe it's worth trying to break down the issues into that can be tackled in that timeframe. I realize that you feel like that a piecemeal approach, but if you agree to do it on a regular basis, maybe you can make some headway.

Finally, it's worth being aware of the difference between a failure to communication vs. a fundamental disagreement. (You know you've reached the latter, when one person can restate the other's position in way that the second position agrees accurately reflects.) When you've got a failure to communicate, continuing to explain your position can help. When it's a fundamental disagreement that usually only worsens the argument. Then it's time to change the discussion to whether the disagreement can -- or can't -- be dealt with by negotiating (usually by looking at the point of disagreement as one only within a larger set of issues can create room for horse-trading).

Good luck!

[Sarah Rabbit]

Sorry for the lack of more FUN threads...maybe one of these days I will be able to show my funny and devious side..........Thanks again...Jean I look forward to seeing your Funny side :D In the mean time he is just as scared as you. forget the councillors and what not. Talk to each other. Communication is the key. You got together for a reason. Don't lose sight of that.

Sarah R. :bunny:

[Lisa Golightly]

I have to admit whenever I have heard the phrase 'We need to talk' I have internally tossed my eyes, hung up the 'Out to lunch' sign on the brain, and gone into Homer Simpson mode 'Do-de-doo-do-de-doo... he he he look at the cow jump..' :)

I'm just not the kind of individual that has the luxury to ponder such things... My world wanders around the more basic needs of money for food and shoes... The kind of people I gravitate toward are also the more... 'the world's a big playground' kind of peeps.

Somedays you just need to say 'Right lets go off and play in the sunshine'... Best therapy in the world, and a smile says more than any word can.

[Kate Simmons]

Nope, guys are guys are guys. They don't like dealing with sensitive issues , especially like this. Trust me, I know. I've personally gotten past that and can sit and talk for hours to someone with a listening ear(part of being in touch with my femme self, I guess). Wish I was there to talk with the two of you. Being someone who has been in that situation helps. Have another nice vacation Jean. Will contact you again later. Ericka

[Jean GG]

Hm. To be honest, I wouldn't know what to talk about for 1 h concerning my CDing

Thank YOU to all of you ONCE MORE!!! Yes, I am working hard trying to make things work.....

Marla...the only thing my husband can talk about without time limits is his crossdressing...this, again, is the only thing he does NOT get defensive about. It's all the other stuff that overwhelms him.... and I simply DON'T understand. :) jean

[Jean GG]

Hi Jean,
Not knowing your hubby,, and most importantly Im no expert at ANYTHING,,but I can tell you what came to mind first when reading your post.This is just how I can be sometimes and may not even be close to your situation. My wife and I comunicate pretty well about most issues after 23 years, but some times she will take things I say totaly wrong,even if its not a serious subject. So what I do once I see that kind of reaction is to hesitate about what I say before I say it, trying to phrase my words so she gets my meening. If that doesnt work and she has her mind made up that she knows what Im trying to say. I end the discussion before it turns into a plain argument. I will admit to being very stubborn at times,, maybe its my German herritage ? But often we re open the subject with totaly different results.
I guess my point is when I get frustrated or cant find the words to continue without making matters worse, I just clam up,,, the stubborn thing whatever,this gives me time to think of how to make my point and it gives my wife time to try and get what Im trying to say.
Confused now ? :) well Im trying to remember the last time we went through this and how long it took for us to finish the conversation in a dialogue we both understood. I guess as long as it can work out a little time is a good investment.
Wow I never get this serious in a post,, so hope its just not babbeling on my part.
Good luck to you both
Cindy

Cindy...you are right on the mark!!! As you describe yourself, you are describing my husband. This is precisely what I was hoping for...knowing if it also happens to others! Thanks, jean

[Toyah]

My husband and I have a communication problem which could be the source of many of our problems. It's NOT that he refuses to communicate, but usually he CANNOT talk about things for more than 1/2 hour...1 hour max before he gets totally overwhelmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I then insist on us going forward...and the results can be CATASTROPHIC!!! I know this is a typical marriage pattern: The more the man withdraws, the more the woman insists.

I find our THIRD therapist just as useless as the prior two...and I am getting more and more worn out, we both are...! A friend suggested a new one, but I currently don't have it in me to tell my story once more to a total strager.........!

HAVE YOU ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW I CAN COMMUNICATE MORE EFFECTIVELY with him without overwhelming him??? DO ANY OF YOU EXPERIENCE THE SAME helpelessness when it comes to talking??? I thought the sensitivity of his cd side would have made it easier for him to express himself and be a little more perceptive, but it does NOT seem to be so!

I am learning to respect my husbands limits BUT how will we ever resolve anything if everything is always discussed peacemeal (?) and one of us always ends feeling angry (him) or anxiety striken (me)???

Sorry for the lack of more FUN threads...maybe one of these days I will be able to show my funny and devious side..........Thanks again...Jean

I guess this is the problem therapy is an ongoing self destructive open ended nonsense people really dont need to do this its an industry in America most of yo seem to have the need to go. Here in the UK we just get on with our lives without the need for constant self analysis. I sympathise with your husband hours talking about such airy fairy stuff should not be allowed it does not get you anywhere apart from the same old stuff

[Jean GG]

What do you want to communicate that he does not understand and why is your husband becoming overwhelmed? What do you want to hear from your husband and he from you? What are your goals you want to achieve from the communication?

As a retired family therapist of many years these are some of the questions I would ask of you.

Hugs,Melanie

Melanie...it's NOT the crossdressing that is our major problem...I don't think...I love people who are different (albeit finding out about it accidently 7 years ago caused trust issues...and the trust keeps needing to be rebuilt every 10-12 months for one reason or another...!). It is his mother and the way she treats me; our housing situation; his work;....I feel he lives in a little bubble...he has his comfort zone and won't step out of it for any reason!

When we go to the therapist, it always tit for tat (?) and I lose my patience because we resolve nothing (like where will we spend Christmas). It's like two children needing a scolding...last week I told the therapist we either start addressing the real issues vs. who did what or I saw no point in returning. So finally he said we will start discussing things more in depth...Ah...I want to pull my hair out (but I won't as I have really nice hair. That and my nails... are my favorites...borrowing some of Karren's humor!).

Funny...now that you have asked...it all seems more clear...we do have similar long term objectives...but will we survive the short term ones? I suppose the main issues continue to be his intermitten interest in physical and emotional intimacy (which he says it is because he does NOT feel good about himself right now but always improves when we are away from where we live...and his MOTHER whom I refuse to go visit anymore...neve mind spending Christmas with her!!!).

Thanks to you all for your thougthful responses. They do help even if sometimes I fear taking advantage of your generosity!!! jean

[Jean GG]

Jean,

Half-hour to an hour, that's the length of an average session so perhaps that's going to have to do. Would setting a timer help? Knowing when the conversation was going to end might relax your guy a bit. Also, importantly: Do you two have anything (fun) set-up for yourselves after your talks? That could also help.

You are right...looks as if that is the average session. But since he never focuses on the issue (he becomes defensive and brings in non-related things), I am exhausted before we begin the main topic...and we are back to zero.

Last time we went to the therapist, we took a movie in after the session. That was very positive...especially since the movie was rather funny (Thank You for Not Smoking). Regardless, your idea IS VERY GOOD...and I will apply it more often! :) jean

[Jean GG]

Jean, I'm sorry you and your husband are having troubles communicating.

For what it's worth, from what I've seen being a CD is no guarantee that someone is more in touch with their feelings, etc.

I think Karren has some good advice. Something else to consider is whether your husband is an introvert -- not in the sense of being shy, but someone (like me) who needs to process things internally before responding, and often extroverts (who to us introverts seemed to just blurt everything out) don't wait long enough to give them a chance to reply, which leaves both sides feeling frustrated.

I'd also suggest you read Norah Vincent's "Self-Made Man," which talks about her experiment of posing as a man for 18 months. While I don't think her insights profound to someone who grew up male, they seemed fairly revelatory to her (and a number of other woman judging by interviews I saw with her) -- and one of the things she talks about is the difference between the way men and women often communicate. (If you want to know more about the book, I've got a review (http://www.adahlshouse.com/2006/02/05/“self-made-man”/) on my blog.)

Also you might try writing down a letter(s) to you husband about the things you're trying to work out, and asking him to do the same. If he's feeling overwhelmed, it'll will give him more time to process and respond.

I don't know the nature of the problems you're working through, but if you know he's hit tilt after 30-60 minutes maybe it's worth trying to break down the issues into that can be tackled in that timeframe. I realize that you feel like that a piecemeal approach, but if you agree to do it on a regular basis, maybe you can make some headway.

Finally, it's worth being aware of the difference between a failure to communication vs. a fundamental disagreement. (You know you've reached the latter, when one person can restate the other's position in way that the second position agrees accurately reflects.) When you've got a failure to communicate, continuing to explain your position can help. When it's a fundamental disagreement that usually only worsens the argument. Then it's time to change the discussion to whether the disagreement can -- or can't -- be dealt with by negotiating (usually by looking at the point of disagreement as one only within a larger set of issues can create room for horse-trading).

Good luck!


WOW Marlena..........that is absolutely brilliant!!! Will check out your blog and the book...............YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT ALL THAT YOU SAY! Will show the hubby....this threads is really helping me see how differently I should try to do things!!! THANK YOU to you all!!!!!!!!!!! jean

[Jean GG]

I guess this is the problem therapy is an ongoing self destructive open ended nonsense people really dont need to do this its an industry in America most of yo seem to have the need to go. Here in the UK we just get on with our lives without the need for constant self analysis. I sympathise with your husband hours talking about such airy fairy stuff should not be allowed it does not get you anywhere apart from the same old stuff

Toya...neither my husband nor I are Americans (English is my third language) and we DO NOT live in America...rather we are pretty close to where you are!

But, you may be right in that it is an industry in America...which is probably why it may work far more there than here since here it is relatively new.

Sorry...:) jean

[Carroll]

First, don't leave us!! As you can see there are many people here, either who posted or didn't that want to help. Most of us that have an SO have gone through this...and yes I was acting like your hubby at one time. I wont get into the reasons behind my communication problem nor what kicked me in the a$$ to start better communication because I don't want you or anybody else to ever go though what I went through. You do need to take time and talk about why the breakdown in the communication. Try to agree on a time, place and length of the talks you have (eg; Tuesday's, PM to PM, living room couch with TV, radio off, kids in bed asleep). And just take it slow. "hi Hun, how was your day at work. If he answers any question with "I don't know" ask him to think about it and give you an answer later.
I am not a doctor of any type, this is based on personal experiences and I hope I also have helped you some:hugs:

Carroll

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Thanks Jean.


When we go to the therapist, it always tit for tat (?) and I lose my patience because we resolve nothing (like where will we spend Christmas). It's like two children needing a scolding...last week I told the therapist we either start addressing the real issues vs. who did what or I saw no point in returning.

One thing to keep in mind is there's different approaches to therapy. What's called "cognitive behavior therapy" takes a more proactive approach and seeks to improve things relatively quickly. In some ways it's more about coaching to help you better tackle specific problems that trying to untangle the mysteries of your childhood.

You might also take a look at some of the books by Virgina Satir, who invented "family therapy" and who had a number of good insights about interpersonal communications and dynamics, including this one.

One of the things that's useful to do is to dissect the communications process -- which usually happens so quickly that we don't even think about it. But in reality:

- You say something to me. It may or may not be what you intended to say, and I may or may not have heard it correctly.

- Based on what you say, I draw some sort of intellectual conclusion. My reasoning may or may not be good.

- Based on that conclusion, I have some sort emotional reaction. That reaction might be based solely on what you said, or it might be colored by something related to someone else, some time else, some where else. It may trigger what Satir called a "survival rules" -- which typically create a knee-jerk response. FYI, Satir also had some good advice about how to deal with and change outmoded survival rules. (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=375146&postcount=1)

- Based on the emotional reaction, I'll respond. But how I respond may be influenced by rules I've learned about how to do so. For example, someone who was taught "always be nice" may have trouble expressing anger.

So sometimes it can help to slow things down and explicitly walk through the thought process when talking with another person. I.e. "I heard you say X, which led me to think Y, which made me feel like Z."


I suppose the main issues continue to be his intermitten interest in physical and emotional intimacy (which he says it is because he does NOT feel good about himself right now but always improves when we are away from where we live...and his MOTHER whom I refuse to go visit anymore...neve mind spending Christmas with her!!!).

Depression or other emotional stress can kill the libido. As far as what's causing the emotional turmoil, that's something different to address. Again, Satir's work might be helpful.

[Jean GG]

and yes I was acting like your hubby at one time. I wont get into the reasons behind my communication problem nor what kicked me in the a$$ to start better communication

this is based on personal experiences and I hope I also have helped you some:hugs:

Carroll

Carroll...every response helps...a lot! I wish you could tell me more. It could help. I am happy to send you my private email address if that encourages you to write. jean

[Joy Carter]

Jean sit down and work on one problem at a time maybe start list of the points to be brought up on that problem. So if he can last only an hour then so be it a couple times a week can help you each say where you are at on things. Just work on that list separately for a couple of days then get together. We went to counseling and her was great for her he said "DON'T CD" she liked that real well. Nothing about me and how I felt I don't think he knew to much about the subject.

And most importantly, after 30 years of marriage, what ever "she who must be obeyed" (said with affection) says, goes..... :)
Love Karren[/QUOTE]
"LOL KAREN" How does such a small package pack such a wallop ! Oh well I gotta go she's coming out of the flame of regeneration LOL. "YES DEAR !":o

[racquel]

I really hope not,I enjoy your posts.:happy:
As for the communication thing--Only talk about serious stuff when he is "dressed".The latent feminine feelings will be more likely to kick in.0.02