One step forward and two steps back?

[fionasboots]

Well my "plans"* were going so well; I'd got away with shaving my under-arms and legs on a fairly dodgy excuse of "got drunk, thought it would be a good idea", but with no real fuss. More importantly I actually shaved again when I got back home and SO even commented "you've got smooth legs" (thought she must know for sure that I had "topped-up" the shaving) and even said I felt really comfortable (particularly in the heat at the moment).

Also missed some eye-makeup and SO spotted this and immediately said "have you been wearing makeup?" - mumbled some lame excuse about being tired/hadn't slept hence dark eyes (actually I really think it may have been this and not make-up, I really hadn't slept well). Again, thought that she may be guessing

(yes, I know that this and the previous paragraph are basically me hoping she'll just guess and be less shocked when I tell her. And yes, I know I'm deluding myself :sad: )

Came out to a friend which gave me a huge confidence boost and meant that I had some sort of help/assistance for when I finally come out to my SO (wife). (See the thread about "Coming out to a friend at work" for full explaination of this).

Also started to change my mind-set about the whole CDing thing - it is something I do, it's not something to be ashamed of! This is ME :D Also realised (or started to) that CDing is the one and only thing that I have been keeping secret from my SO (and everyone else) and that I really have been ashamed of it.

Made me think that coming clean about this would be a really good thing and something I want and need to do. It is a really uplifting thought that, confessing all about the CDing means absolutely nothing is left that is a secret. That's it, complete and total honesty! (I really can't believe it and keep trying to think of other "big secrets", still haven't thought of any).

So everything seemed to be going well ...

"I want you to grow the hair back on your legs!"
"Why?"
"I don't like you not having hair, it's not manly"

So this blows a whole load of stuff out of the water: my SO wasn't being cool about the "clues" at all, she either didn't notice or did notice and is now decidedly not cool about it. I suspect the latter but I don't know whether she is guessing I'm a CDer or is just not happy about the "clues" in isolation.

The thing that really hit home was the comment about not being "manly". This makes me really worried as it sounds suspiciously like "manliness" is going to be a real issue and that being a CDer is going to be a huge blow to the image that my SO has of me, or how she wants me to be.

I am going to have to confess all soon or I can crawl back into my secret world again and hide (which is easier in the short term of course).

So the question I have really is: how do I break this to my SO? It is not going to be easy to bring the subject up and the reaction is going to tend towards negative (possibly ridicule, incredulity at first followed by downright dislike when the shock wears off). I week ago I could kinda see myself confessing all, now that image is fading, it doesn't seem as realistic anymore :sad:

What if I've been kidding myself over the past few months (when I have accelerated somewhat in the CDing) maybe it's just a phase again? Maybe it's just something I've done because I was away from home? Should I put my wife and myself through a fair amount of pain just so I can be girlie? Is it really that important?

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated and likely very, very useful at this moment in time! Things may be coming to a point of no return within the next few weeks!

[ * - "Plans", yeah right. I don't really have plans, I just like to think I have some way forward sometimes! ]

[KateW]

Sorry to hear about this. I'm not really sure what to suggest because every partner has different views on crossdressing. Instead of coming out fully, it might be an idea to try something else like your leg hair... discuss getting ur ears pierced, putting highlights in hair, or something fairly unisex (any other suggestions ladies?). If she says thats just for girls, you probably know not to pursue it any further for the time being. I hope this helps, and please keep us updated!

[EricaCD]

I'd strongly recommend you just get it over with. The process of coming out to your wife is not like a fine red wine: it does not get better with age. It's really more like mayonnaise left outside at a picnic on a hot day...

Giving her hints and hoping SHE will do the hard work of coming to YOU is not fair. Among other things, there is a good chance that she will assume (incorrectly, in all likelihood) that you are gay. She may think it's something that she fails to bring to the relationship. In other words, she could be aching due to any one of the many common misconceptions about crossdressing. You should not force her to come to this revelation alone.

Erica

[fionasboots]

I'd strongly recommend you just get it over with. The process of coming out to your wife is not like a fine red wine: it does not get better with age. It's really more like mayonnaise left outside at a picnic on a hot day...


I really do like the imagery there!



Giving her hints and hoping SHE will do the hard work of coming to YOU is not fair. Among other things, there is a


No, I would agree. As I mentioned I think this is hope in vain that she would magically arrive at the correct conclusion and then go through the whole shock, disappointment, understanding, acceptance, thing without any input from me at all.



good chance that she will assume (incorrectly, in all likelihood) that you are gay. She may think it's something


I would say there is a high probability that this will be one obvious question, yes. And as you say, this would be a false assumption on her part, but nevertheless a disturbing thought that she'd probably need alot of convincing about.



that she fails to bring to the relationship. In other words, she could be aching due to any one of the many common misconceptions about crossdressing. You should not force her to come to this revelation alone.


No, I'm not really attempting to do that, well not conciously anyway. The things I mentioned were really by accident and not design.

The question still stands though about how to actually go about this? While I would agree with your initial sentiment of "just get it over with" I think there is a bit more to it than that. I don't expect I can just drop it into conversation.

I guess I'm really looking for other peoples experiences of when they came out to an SO, and if possible the SO's perspective as well. I know a great many GGs here knew ahead of time about their partners CDing, but I assume there must be some that had to come out the "hard way".

[GG Vanya]

As a GG, I can give you a few pointers.

First, don't "make an appointment" for the big talk days ahead of time. She'll go into "imagination overdrive" and already be on the defensive before you get to say a word.

I'm sure you know which nights/days are downtime for you and your wife, those days when actually nothing is on the agenda except for kicking back.

Choose a time when you feel she's really relaxed, no pressures from work, family, children, etc. and just simply say you would like to share some things with her. As others have said, do this at a time when you know there is time to discuss it at length, i.e. not just before bedtime on a work night, etc.

I suggest, that once the fuse is lit, not offering to show her pictures of you enfemme unless SHE asks to see them. I recommend that you do, however, after telling her...STOP, take a deep breath and ask her how she feels, and if she has questions. Be well prepared with answers (including references if possible) to those questions. Be honest if asked how long, to what extent, and with whom you have engaged in crossdressing. Lying at this point, about ANY aspect of your CDing, will only set her back in any possible acceptance when she finds out the truth, and she WILL.

Last of all, DO NOT act ashamed. If you do, she is going to automatically take on the same feeling. If you act as if crossdressing is wrong it will enforce any feeling she may have that it's wrong as well. Feeling shame that you haven't told her heretofore is a different story.

I pray for Grace for you, and admire you for wanting to have a "no secrets" relationship with your wife.

[Calliope]

"I don't like you not having hair, it's not manly"


I hate to say it, it's obvious as gravity anyway, telling her is going to be a rough ride. Intuition tells me you've just got to tell her ... but I would suggest you get yourself in good shape (rested and, if possible, upped on some kind of good news) for the big talk.

[Bernice]

I’d probably do this all wrong myself, but here is how I might lead into this:

"I want you to grow the hair back on your legs!"
"Why?"
"I don't like you not having hair, it's not manly"

“How important is it to you that I be manly all the time? Is that what most attracted you to me in the first place? I haven’t been entirely honest with you, and I’m sorry I haven’t been 100% honest about this. You see, I’m not really all that manly. Oh, I love you very much, and I’m certainly not gay, but sometimes I don’t feel all that macho. I have a feminine side, and it is part of who I really am. Society may place a lot of value on manliness, but I don’t care much about society. What matters to me is how you feel."

“What on earth are you talking about?”

“Well, just as you sometimes grow tired of skirts and court shoes, I grow tired of spiders and snakes, of beer and sports and aggression, of body hair and boxer shorts, and shoelaces that have to be tied. I haven’t been entirely honest because I sensed in you that what you wanted was a non-stop macho-man, and what I wanted was to not rock the boat because I love you so much. But if we are going to share absolutely everything with no secrets, then I have to share with you this very real part of who I really am and who I probably always have been.”

Fiona, I think you are on the right track, planning to tell her. The potential benefits outweigh the risks. I wish you well. :hugs:

[Stephenie S]

Dear Fiona,

Sweety, you have GOT to stop hinting around this and TALK to your wife.

The way you have gone about this so far is just mudying the waters. You are not doing anything but sowing the seeds of confusion. OK, enough analogies here, but really, you have got to sit down and talk to her. There are some hints on how to do this on this thread, and many other ideas on other threads on this site. The worst that can happen is that she says "No way!" and then there you are back in the closet. So what would have changed? You're in the closet now. If you are going to make any progress here this has got to come out in the open.

Stop hinting around. And stop waiting for her to figure it out. How can she figure anything out when all you have given her is lies and rediculous stories?

You will be glad you did.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Lila GG]

Hi Fiona,

Reading your post, i definitely got the feeling that (at least last week) you were really looking forward to telling your wife and having this remaining secret be told. Which is up to you, but I think at this point the "secret" is definitely ready to unravel, so facing it and bringing it up yourself will probably make things easier in the long run, rather than have your wife imagine a million scenarios in her mind...

When my husband told me, granted it was a little earlier in our relationship, but some things I remember that really helped were:
1 - he was really open about what it meant to him, and that it was not something that he could turn on and off at will; it was (is) an integral part of who he is.
2 - he told me how scared he was to be telling me this. I agree with the person who wrote that there is nothing to be ashamed of and that you shouldn't be apologetic or anything, but it is still a really big deal for you to be sharing such a secret with someone else (yes, even your wife), so make her understand that even though it's really difficult, you really wanted and needed to open up this side of yourself to her, so that your marriage could be even stronger and more honest.

And as others have said, definitely answer any questions she may have totally honestly. This is not the time for you to try to understate the importance of cd-ing in your life, or anything like that.

Not sure if I'd mention that you've recently told someone else about this (your co-worker), as she may get the wrong idea... how does that fit in with being totally honest? Again, I don't know... these are all just my opinions...

Best of luck -
Lila

[fionasboots]

Thanks all for the advice and support so far ... I'd like to repeat something I said in another thread; I blame you all for everything I've done recently - without this forum I wouldn't have progressed so far so fast :p

Just to address a few things people have said:

Lila, no I'm definitely NOT going to mention that someone else knows as I agree that this is not going to help at all. I know that some will say this is just another lie but that's a much smaller secret that the whole CDing and one I need to keep for now until I see how my wife reacts.

Stephenie, yes I know the hints don't work, Erica already pointed this out and I agree entirely. On the plus side it seems that getting the subject raised due to these hints could be a way to go, or already has been.


Vanya, I would agree that choosing downtime is a good idea. In terms of "making an appointment", I have to admit I'm doing this mentally (I guess you meant actually saying to my wife, "I need to talk tomorrow") since my son is going to be with grandparents for a whole week at the end of July. This seems to fit the "quiet" time you suggest as my wife is likely to be more relaxed then.

[ While we are away on our wedding anniversary is also "quiet time" but I didn't think that would be a good point to break such a bombshell ]

Bernice, thanks for the suggestions, however I feel that speeches like this aren't going to work. When I run them through in my mind they don't fit and seem "cheesy" (sorry can't think of a better description). Also, in general I'm not good at remembering a speech so it'd just come out all mangled and confused.

Regarding the "don't act ashamed" point that a few people have made; I found that quite interesting and hadn't thought about that. Now that it's been mentioned I think it ties into what I said about feeling confident about telling my SO before. I really didn't feel ashamed and this made me I could just blurt it out in conversation and wouldn't get a bad reaction.

I think I need to recharge the "courage batteries" and also spent a little time as Fiona (which I may get to do as my wife has to take our son over to the grandparents) to really work up to confessing.

And no, before anyone else suggests it, there is NO way at all that I'm going to say "oh and look here's some pictures of me dressed". I'd already marked that down as a pretty stupid thing to do!

Also, strangely I felt that I would be more embarrassed showing my wife pics simply because I don't feel that I'm that convincing. Sort of like I thought she may say "well, you don't look very good as a woman".

So, no, definitely no pictures. I had thought of suggesting this forum at some point (maybe not initially) but, while this would provide an awful lot of support my wife has always declared that she doesn't do computers and certainly isn't entirely comfortable with them.

[noname]

"I want you to grow the hair back on your legs!"
"Why?"
"I don't like you not having hair, it's not manly"

Interesting she seems pretty concerned about what she wants. When you do discuss this with her, you might ask her if it be fair that she not cut her hair, or only wear dresses.

0.02

[kittypw GG]

Fiona,
I would be furious with you that you would be so childish that you would try to "sneek" something like shaving your legs and arm pits into your married life. Are you kidding me? That is like ignoring the elephant in the living room and frankly I would be offended that you would think so little of me as to not to be up front and honest about yourself. Of course manliness is going to be an issue, that is why you need to come clean and work with her. Grow up and face things like an adult. There really is no way of going back now. Kitty

[fionasboots]

Fiona,
I would be furious with you that you would be so childish that you would try to "sneek" something like shaving your legs and arm pits into your married life. Are you kidding me? That is like ignoring the elephant in the living room and frankly I would be offended that you would think so little of me as to not to be up front and honest about yourself. Of course manliness is going to be an issue, that is why you need to come clean and work with her. Grow up and face things like an adult. There really is no way of going back now. Kitty

Well harsh but possibly fair.

Are you saying you would be furious about the "sneeking" bit or the fact that I would be bringing a part of the CDing into married life?

I'm not sure that my reasons for not coming clean before (or still, as yet) are down to me thinking "little" of my wife. Being upfront and honest about something you fear could have serious repurcussions takes a certain degree of confidence and self-belief, yes, I suppose that's being an adult about it.

While I have said that I do want to come clean (and this is still the "plan") there are obviously two main reasons for doing this:

1) it's the right thing to do, I should be open and honest about who I am (this is not necassarily something that comes entirely easy hence the post and requests for advice/support).

2) Ultimately there is a selfish aim: I want to carry on CDing as I feel this is something that is part of me and I enjoy doing it. The only way I can really do this going forward is with, at the base minimum some acceptance of the idea, if only to avoid things getting even more nasty in future, e.g. getting caught!

So when it comes down to it what I really need to know is how to achieve the above two things with the minimum of hurt and pain for all concerned. Which in itself may be a selfish aim.

[fionasboots]

"I want you to grow the hair back on your legs!"
"Why?"
"I don't like you not having hair, it's not manly"

Interesting she seems pretty concerned about what she wants. When you do discuss this with her, you might ask her if it be fair that she not cut her hair, or only wear dresses.

0.02

Bzzzzzzzt, well that was the wrong answer, thanks for playing!

Seriously I have no intention of going on the attack when coming out, this would be totally counter productive and not really the aim of the conversation. I am more concerned with trying to get some understanding/acceptance for something that could be a big shock.

I see that it is perfectly understandable for my wife to express a preference/desire in my appearance, I certainly have done the same to her.

Also I don't think "fair" comes into it, life really isn't necassarily "fair" it just is what it is. To start ranting about "fair" makes it sound like some sort of exchange system!

Of course some things I want/need to keep doing as part of the CDing - shaving is probably going to be one of them but that's a discussion for another day.

[Charleen]

Fiona, My heart goes out to you. No advice, just my experience. I did not have anything like this forum when my wife was alive, so I stayed hidden for 30 years. She didn't like it when I told her I liked to wear womans undies those many years ago, so I dressed when I could, because I could not stop. She noticed the remains of my mascara, and I used the same excuse you did, but was more careful after that. As I said, I didn't have this forum to help, so I don't know if I would have eventually told her. When I thought about it, she was more valuable in my life than being able to run around the house in my lace ect. The only thing I can tell you is that you know your SO better than any of us girls, and decision is ultimately yours. What ever your decision, and outcome, you know that we will be here for you. Love and xxxx, Lily:hugs:

[Julie York]

Very interesting.

I really think it would help you if you answered these questions....

(relax! They're not nasty)


What minimum level of CDing would you be happy for your wife to accept? She married a hairy manly guy and might be quite open to "let's pretend" with clothing, but only if her man is still in there after it is all over.

What could you do that would give you satisfaction, yet not permanently remove the signals of 'manly' that she married you for in the first place?

Once you have decided that....then that is your starting point. If you want to suddenly go Ru Paul on her then that is just looking for trouble. But if you have a non-threatening starting point then that's...well the starting point.



Good luck anyway.

[fionasboots]

The only thing I can tell you is that you know your SO better than any of us girls, and decision is ultimately yours. What ever your decision, and outcome, you know that we will be here for you. Love and xxxx, Lily:hugs:

Lily, thanks for the support, kind words and for sharing your experience.

I think (and I need to keep telling myself this) that the decision has already been made, I must tell and it's now a matter of when, where, how, and what the outcome will be.

That is really what I need the help/advice with. It's the whole having to do it that I need to deal with now.

Maybe there should be some sort of leaflet that you can hand over after making the little confessional speech? :heehee:

Anyway, thanks again to *all* who have responded so far.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Fiona,

I just read all these posts through. I think the most important aspect of this in terms of telling you wife is something you have already mentioned yourself.

DON'T ACT ASHAMED.

Any hint of shame on your part will trigger a raft of negativity in your wife. She needs to know that you have accepted this completely yourself and that you know that there is nothing wrong with what you are doing. Unfortunately, I am not sure you have come to this conclusion. Witness your incredible stories about getting drunk and shaving yourself. It's going to be dificult to get her to accept something that you have not accepted in yourself. Self acceptance is a real key here when we talk to others about our desires and behavior. Think this through before you talk to her. And good luck, I know you can do it. None of this is easy, but I think when you are done you will be relieved at how much easier it was than you thought it would be.

You can do it, sweety.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[kittypw GG]

For me Fiona, the offensive part would be the fact that you made such a lame excuse for shaving your legs. She has no idea that she is going to be hit with this thing, this lifestyle called crossdressing. I do think that you think little of her and are kind of a rat for shaving first and making up an excuse that is not sitting right in her head and is knawing at her sensibilities. We know when things don't add up right. Do you think that women are stupid? When she finds out the truth this little lie will come back to haunt you. Come clean. As far as serious reprocussions, well you just proved that you are going to do it anyway so you might as well tell her the truth and let the chips fall where they may. If you are a good husband, and partner then chances are that she will try to accept this part of you. If you don't ever give her a chance and can't trust her well then I don't see much hope for that. Sorry If I seem harsh but God I hate being lied to. Don't you?????? Kitty


Well harsh but possibly fair.

Are you saying you would be furious about the "sneeking" bit or the fact that I would be bringing a part of the CDing into married life?

I'm not sure that my reasons for not coming clean before (or still, as yet) are down to me thinking "little" of my wife. Being upfront and honest about something you fear could have serious repurcussions takes a certain degree of confidence and self-belief, yes, I suppose that's being an adult about it.

While I have said that I do want to come clean (and this is still the "plan") there are obviously two main reasons for doing this:

1) it's the right thing to do, I should be open and honest about who I am (this is not necassarily something that comes entirely easy hence the post and requests for advice/support).

2) Ultimately there is a selfish aim: I want to carry on CDing as I feel this is something that is part of me and I enjoy doing it. The only way I can really do this going forward is with, at the base minimum some acceptance of the idea, if only to avoid things getting even more nasty in future, e.g. getting caught!

So when it comes down to it what I really need to know is how to achieve the above two things with the minimum of hurt and pain for all concerned. Which in itself may be a selfish aim.

[DonnaT]

There are a number of "manly" men who shave/wax their entire bodies. Especially sports figures in weight training/body building, cyclists, swimmers, etc. Hair is not a sign of manliness.

TELLING


Telling Your Partner
By Linda Kaye

"No other person can make you feel whole. Your wholeness comes from an inner peace and integrity..." Karen Katafiasz, from "Celebrate Your Womanhood Therapy"
Over the years, both Vanessa and I have been asked by numerous crossdressers about how to tell their wives and partners of their transgendered (femme) side. They seem to think that we can provide a "magic wand" for them, or that we hold the "secret" that will make everything just right.

The truth is that there is no magic wand or secret to telling your partner. You are taking a chance in opening up your entire being to the person who is most important in your life. You are opening the last closet door, and in doing so, you may end up losing this special person, or drastically affecting your relationship with her. If you feel that this relationship is important to you, it is a risk worth taking.

This may sound very frightening, but then, you are already frightened. It is a big step, a big chance you will be taking. However, the failure to tell your partner about your real self could be the the greater risk. In addition, until such time as you and your partner have totally opened up to one another, true intimacy will not be possible.

There can be a bright side to all of this, if you take the necessary steps to prepare yourself to tell her. Here are some thoughts and possible guidelines for you.

First, and foremost, you need to be secure in yourself, accepting all that you are, including your feminine side. The transgendered person who cannot accept him or herself can never convince his or her partner to accept. Self-acceptance is a major key, for it gives you the strength to take the chance. If you have inner peace and integrity, as Ms. Katafiasz writes in her booklet, then you have the best life can offer you. You will reflect this to all you meet, and your self-liking will come across to your partner as you tell her. You are special, you are unique and your transgenderism is a rare gift. If you share this with her in this manner, it is a major start to her understanding you.

Furthermore, you need to prepare yourself for the time when you will tell her. If you are transgendered, then learn all you can about transgenderism. There are endless books written on the subject, and by reading them, attending conferences, programs and seminars, which are offered throughout the year and the country by different segments of the transgendered community, you absorb knowledge about who you are. You learn more about yourself, and in doing so, you move to self-acceptance. It is like the circle of the wedding ring - you never reach the end, for the circle is never-ending. Such is learning...you are an open vessel, continually needed refilling.

As you learn more about yourself, also begin to learn about the partners of other transgendered men who have learned to tolerate and accept. There are more and more books being written about being the partner of a transgendered person, and there are books written specifically to couples in such relationships. Do not obtain these books to give to your partner; read them first, so that you can be able to talk to her about what she will eventually read. Contact the authors, if you have questions or comments and attempt to assimilate what they have written into your presentation to your partner.

Know your partner. Look logically at the relationship and think about how telling her about your crossdressing is going to affect it. Be compassionate to her needs: Take into account the pressures of her life, be they professional stress, children, family issues, financial boundaries.

Love your partner by trying to find ways to help her with her life pressures and understand that in telling her, you may be adding to her burdens. Will this new burden be too much?

Look honestly at the communication you share with her. Do you talk about real issues or do you brush them under the rug to avoid conflict? Ask yourself if there is anything else that you are hiding from her, for that will be one of her very first questions. Be ready to answer questions about your sexuality and your sexual orientation, and be honest in your answers. Do not try to cover up or lie to her. This is the time for total honesty. You would expect that from her, so why should not you be willing to do the same?

When you tell her, we suggest that you do not just blurt out that you are a transvestite or transgendered person. Prepare your words carefully. Explain to her that there is a side of you that has been with you all your life and which you had previously not told her about. When she asks why, be truthful. Most likely, you will tell her that you were afraid that you might lose her. Be prepared when she is unwilling to buy that reason. In her eyes, she will not understand how she could have been in such an intimate relationship with you and not known about this side of you. She may be resentful, and rightly so.

Try to explain your feelings about wearing feminine attire. She may be unable to fully understand what you feel, but she might be able to comprehend some of it. If you have tried to purge in the past, tell her this, and tell her how it did not work. If you have been to counseling, tell her this, too. If she wants to go to counseling, be open to the idea. Keep open the doors to her, and to your relationship. Tell her (and show her) that you have obtained educational materials about transgenderism, and the issues facing a couple in such a relationship and ask her if she would be willing to read them. Do not force them on her.

Be patient! This is a major blow to her sense of intimacy. Do not expect her to jump up and throw her arms open in grateful acceptance. Instead, ask her to leave the doors of communication open, make yourself available always to her for questions or discussion. Do not insist on dressing in front her until she specifically asks that you do so. And do not insist that she attend a support group meeting or try to force her to attend a partners support group meeting. Instead, simply make the options available to her.

Lastly, make sure that she knows how much you love her and how important your relationship is. Make it very clear that she is not the cause of your transgenderism. In fact, if you are like most other crossdressers, the reason for your femme side is unknown and unclear. Your partner may feel that she is somehow lacking in femininity. It is vitally important that you reassure her that this is not the case, and to you, she is a beautiful, desirable woman and the most important person in your life.

None of this will guarantee her acceptance but it gives you a valid start. The acceptance has to come from within her; it cannot be forced. Give her time, give her love and give her reassurance that you are still the man she fell in love with, and that your femme side is simply another unique part of your wholeness.

[Anita Mae GG]

First off, I don't think your wife is that clueless that she doesn't notice these things and suspect something. Instead of doing the tip toe dance, JUST TELL HER. She must already have thoughts anyway so just do it. This little game of shave, shave again, "eye makeup" is childish, just be up front and like Vanya said, don't be ashamed of who you are.

As far as the manly comment, I can see where your wife is coming from. It isn't that she is potentially seeingyour CDing as unmanly, but we woman attribute certain this with manhood other than your "organ". For me it is a slightly hairy chest and legs. But me and my SO compromised and the legs get shaved in the winter and the chest stays........... I think that is where your wife is coming from with that comment.

[Di]

Well at least you know you were deluding yourself...................I do not know your wife....but my take on it is..............I'd feel betrayed....not about the cding...but the secrets...hiding and sneeking. If you decide to tell her the truth stress to her...you are the same person she loves....and you love her.....and talk...talk and talk somemore.....best wishes

[Sandra]

Do you really think your wife is stupid? Can you imagine what thoughts are going through her mind? As for telling a friend before you tell her, well that personally disgust me, just get it out in the open and talk to your wife, be prepared for all the questions and have answers ready, tell her you are the man that she married and because you dress it doesn't change you from being that man. Going back to telling your friend, are you sure they won't mention this to others and it get back to your wife? if it does then I wouldn't like to be in your shoes cos she ain't gonna be a very happy bunny.

[Stephanie Spice]

Fiona

My heart goes out to you and I admire the courage and honesty that you are mustering. Your wife needs the truth and I know from your process that you are preparing to tell her. For me these crucial conversations must come from the heart and be spontaneous and honest. All you can do is prepare yourself, breathe, relax, meditate, exercise, do whatever you need to do to find your center and open your heart. Make sure the time is right, open-ended unpressured one-on-one time. Be honest, be loving and above all be true to yourself. In the conversation, pause to breathe, LISTEN and instead of immediately reacting, breathe, think and respond from your heart. Your life has led you to this moment and it will safely guide you beyond these potentially stormy waters. Have faith in yourself. There is a community of us standing behind you supporting you in acheiving your optimal outcome.

Big Hugs,

Stephanie

[Kerry Owens]

tell the truth, simply;calmly and help her find her way through the first emotions.

[Charleen]

You're welcome. You asked about a pamphlet, best I can do is recommend the thread " Truth About Cross Dressing" . It might help you out. Love and xxxx, Lily

[Phoebe Reece]

Fiona,

Have you noticed that the unanimous message all the GG's that replied to your thread has been "Tell the truth!"? Face it, your wife knows something is not quite right with your behaviour and lame excuses. She deserves nothing less than the truth. Further delay in doing this will only make the situation worse.

As for things like shaving legs, tell her it is not necessarily unmanly - as others pointed out, many major sports stars shave their bodies - and having a smooth body is something you prefer. But, be prepared to negotiate and compromise on some things. Perhaps shaving your legs only during part of the year, for instance. Some things can't be given away in negotiation though. It's totally unrealistic to expect you to simply give up crossdressing forever. Don't make promises you can't keep.

[fionasboots]

Well, I've just got back from some time away with my wife (our anniversary), no I haven't told her yet (didn't want to spoil the weekend with such a bombshell).

I'll post some more about my thoughts and experiences over the weekend (as this is obviously on my mind ... don't worry it wasn't *that* much on my mind, we did have a wonderful weekend away together).

In the meantime, thank you all for your responses to this thread, I'll try and wade through them all over the coming week as well!

[Andrea Evans]

I am not married but do have girlfriends to whom I make it clear that I do not have any homosexual leanings - I do this by bring this into the conversation whenever there is an opportunity to do this for example after something has been reported in the Press or been on TV.

Just as importantly I try to bring crossdressing into the subject in similar circumstances. Believe me I soon learn their stated opinion of these issues and this would dictate whether I confided my crossdressing to them.

My point is whether you have tried such tactics and what was her response?

Maybe a GG could indicate whether I am getting a true response or a response they want me to hear?

Anyway best of luck.

[fionasboots]

Very interesting.

I really think it would help you if you answered these questions....

(relax! They're not nasty)


Arrrrggghhh, panic :rolleyes:



What minimum level of CDing would you be happy for your wife to accept? She married a hairy manly guy and might be quite open to "let's pretend" with clothing, but only if her man is still in there after it is all over.


Well, at the moment (literally this second) I'm dressed up totally en femme (no one around, just bought some new clothes, etc), only missing breast forms (haven't got any yet).

This is really what I want to do and what I enjoy and I would like to be able to go out in the real world like this (well after LOADS more work on the make-up, lose some weight etc).

I don't believe my wife would ever be interested in actually partipating to that degree, in fact I would be happy, and fully understand if she simply accepted I do this and let me get on with it in my own time. Maybe this is being unfair to her, she may be more accepting and like you suggest, enjoy some degree of "let's pretend" but that is a while off.

As for me being "manly", well I don't look or act in a particularly manly way and never have, and hair wise I wouldn't say the amount I have normally would define me as particularly manly. I think I would really have to continue shaving (although I suppose shave through summer but not winter would work) as I really prefer it now, irrespective of the CDing. Also I really do need to continue cycling to get into shape. Maybe my wife could accept that at least.

I think the things that make me who I am and the way that I behave are not particularly manly things, e.g. I work in IT (techie/geek/nerd) I'm fairly competant at DIY, etc. I do NOT enjoy football/rugby/<insert 'manly sport'> but prefer badminton and swimming. I'm also a gossip, generally a good listener, easy to get on with, relatively caring and etc.

None of these things, and I assume this is why my wife married me, changes with the addition of CDing.




What could you do that would give you satisfaction, yet not permanently remove the signals of 'manly' that she married you for in the first place?


Well as my rambling above, it's only the hairiness that she has mentioned so far (and only the legs, no mention of under-arm which is good since that is soooo much more comfortable/cooler shaved).

I suppose the only danger is that she may associate CDing with shaved legs and that may make her more uncomfortable, I guess that depends on how accepting she is about the whole thing.

One thing that occurs to me; when CDing I'm obviously trying to be girlie and I think this makes me feel (and I can't think of a better word for this so please don't read too much into it) more submissive, less (again struggling for words here) man-in-charge. Conversely I wonder if the GGs feel slip into the traditional guy. I only ask as my wife normally is the quite and retiring one and I just wonder if secretly she wants to be the opposite, she sometimes acts like she does. Maybe this is the subject for another thread.



Once you have decided that....then that is your starting point. If you want to suddenly go Ru Paul on her then that is just looking for trouble. But if you have a non-threatening starting point then that's...well the starting point.
Good luck anyway.

Okay, that sounds fairly good advice and I would certainly agree that looking for a simple starting point makes alot of sense instead of going for the full-on approach ("hey, look darling, here's me in a short skirt, make-up, wig. What do you think?" :lol: )

[fionasboots]

Just as importantly I try to bring crossdressing into the subject in similar circumstances. Believe me I soon learn their stated opinion of these issues and this would dictate whether I confided my crossdressing to them.

My point is whether you have tried such tactics and what was her response?

Maybe a GG could indicate whether I am getting a true response or a response they want me to hear?

Anyway best of luck.

Hmmm, that's a good approach (wish I'd known about it and about myself a lot earlier on! Oh well, such is life).

I think I have brought up crossdressing before in reference to the likes of Eddie Izzard etc and she hasn't seemed to be totally freaked-out by the idea of guy-in-a-dress, more along the lines of, "that's a bit weird" and then not really bothering about it since in her opinion it probably has no real impact on her and there's more stuff to be thinking about than whether people are crossdressing!

So no real negative indicators that I have picked up but I've not really done a good job of bringing up the subject!

[fionasboots]

Well, life wouldn't be life if plans didn't get completely screwed up now and again.

I had intended to tell my wife about the CDing next week since our son would be with grandparents and she should be relaxed and happy and not stressed and running around busy as usual.

However, just got back to work yesterday and I'm now due to fly out to India for two weeks from next Thursday!

Now I could still tell her early next week as planned but I don't feel this is a good idea for two reasons (one of which is pretty pathetic)

1) Telling her then flying off to India means that all those questions she didn't ask at first are now going to be whizzing round her head and won't get answered. I'll be sort of telling-and-running which seems bad to me and may make things look worse for her.

2) If things aren't going well with breaking this news to my wife and she really takes issue with my CDing I may some back to find all of my clothes and make-up in the bin. Okay, I told you it was a pathetic reason. On the other hand, this sort of thing is then probably going to lead to a huge row which seems counter-productive.

So what do I do. Should I still go ahead and hope that I can get enough information and questions answered across or should I wait until I'm back in the country and can spend more time?

[Phoebe Reece]

Fiona, after following your posts on this subject for some time, it's beginning to look like you are trying hard to find reasons not to tell your wife. There is never going to be a perfect time. You need to either go ahead and do this or look forward to a life of hiding and deceit.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Fiona,

Yup, I agree with Phoebe on this one. I don't think you want to tell her.

You know you should, everyone here has told you that, and you have agreed that you should, BUT you have an excuse why not for every chance you get.

So, you don't have to, you know. Just stay in the closet. As I said before, that's where you are now so it's nice familiar territory. Nothing HAS to change.

Ooops, did I say that? Well change does seem to be the only sure thing in this world, doesn't it? Well, maybe you do have to say something.

You know, you can ease into this slowly. When I told my wife I was really low key about it. One evening I said, "I know you have noticed that I have been spending a lot of time on a new CD site on the computer. Would you like to talk about it?" It was a pretty relaxed conversation because I didn't load it all up with ultimatums. I let her guide the conversation and state her desires and feelings about it rather than dumping all of what I felt on her. It was like, "You can tell I'm interested in this subject, how do YOU feel about it?" If you can get HER to question YOU about it you may find it goes a bit easier.
I dunno, it worked for me. This is a subject that can be explosive, as your imagination has already told you. Try and slide . . . . .into it.

Maybe if you can have a relaxed and loving discussion before you go, it will give her some time to think about it. I know the fact that I show and tell my wife that I love her every day, and I tell her how happy I am that she accepts my CDing has helped her a lot.

Good luck, dear. Just do it.

Stephenie

[DonnaT]

Best wait to tell her.

[Stephenie S]

Dear Fiona,

See what a wide range of ideas we have here?

Lovies,
Steph

[fionasboots]

In response to the comments that I don't really want to tell my wife about this ... yes, I agree entirely. I know I should, everyone says I should and really I do want to get things out in the open ...

... but of course it's not something I'm looking forward to and, having lost the momentum from earlier I have effectively missed many recent opportunities.

Regarding the latest twist with me being away, well, no I'm not really trying to use that as an excuse I do genuinely think that it has made it less of a good time next week as it will no longer be the nice, relaxing time that it should have been :sad:

I think maybe I just have to be extra sensitive to opportunities to get parts of what I want to tell my wife into the conversation, as Stephenie suggests.

Don't worry, sooner or later this has to come out ... I don't think the roof can take the weight of the clothes in there anymore :lol:

[fionasboots]

Dear Fiona,

See what a wide range of ideas we have here?

Lovies,
Steph

Hmmm, a site for CDers, there supportive partners, covers all of the world ... yep, I reckon that's a good mixture that'll come up with a wide range of ideas :heehee:

I will say again what I've said a few times before; I really do "blame" you lot for my recent progress with all the CDing.

Really, without actually reading and posting on this forum I would have no idea about a great many things, the whole concept of SOs knowing, supporting, encouraging and participating in their partners CDing really hadn't occurred to me till reading this site!

I've also never really been able to discuss what I do/feel with anyone before and had definitely been of the mindset that what I did was a phase and something to at least hide and keep secret.

I suppose this year has also involved a fair amount of travel where I have had the opportunity to CD 'properly' and that combined with being on this forum has meant that I've not been supressing my desires/ideas as much as I had been.

So like I said, it's all YOUR fault! Thanks :love: