Crossdressing:Forbidden????

[Sakura Kinomoto]

Hello girls I think I just raised a big question here.I love to crossdress and I do it whenever I can.I buy my clothes.However I am still not in position to tell people I know because they would freak out and would start to talk about religion,that man should not dress up as a woman,etc.

However why is this reaction?Why do they think that men should always wear pants and shirts?I started dressing since I was 18 (I am almost 30 years now)however I have a hormonal imbalance in which is causing my
boobs to grow.I am happy with that I think.On the other hand,I feel angry
because I cant tell my parents how I really feel and that I want to be a woman.That I love to croosdress.I dont understand why would they feel angry about this big decision,my life,as a man,has been horrible.

Why cant they(my parents and society) accept me as the person I am now?
I want to put on a dress and go out to the streets,I want my mother s approval.I cant accept her rejection and I think that she is starting to suspect and mainly because my boobs are growing.What can I do?
It is not fair to judge people for what they are and what they have choosen,
you have every right to wear any kind of clothes that you want and you can even choose your gender.If you want to be female,so be it isnt that so?
So let me ask you these:Why do you think that some people believe that
croosdressing should be forbidden and that man shall not drees as a girl?

Personally,I Love every kind of female clothes specially lingirie and I hate
boy s clothes.I hate the fact that I have to wear them regardless how I feel.

So what do you think why do society feels rejection to people like us????!!!

Honestly I am glad that I am not alone and that there are people like me
out there in this insane world.

Crossdressing is wonderful dont you think????People should learn the concept
of tolerance and freedom.

[kristytv]

becasue we dont fit in with most social norms,

[Calliope]

Why do you think that some people believe that
croosdressing should be forbidden and that man shall not drees as a girl?


I would venture the roots are in the biological (reproductive) division of labor.



So what do you think why do society feels rejection to people like us????!!!


History seems to suggest 'society' craves opposites in which to define itself - and, alas, these opposites provide those with hostilites and hangups the targets they require.


Honestly I am glad that I am not alone and that there are people like me out there in this insane world.


You are not alone, sister.



Girls dont like boys,they like cars and money!


That's droll.

[Kim West]

becasue we dont fit in with most social norms,


...I agree with that whoelheartedly Kirsty...I am sick to death of these social gnomes..

[noname]

tell people I know because they would freak out and would start to talk about religion,that man should not dress up as a woman,etc.

What I think you could expect is them wanting to change you.



However why is this reaction?Why do they think that men should always wear pants and shirts?

I won't go into detail on the history, but I've read pants were origonally womens apparel. They then started to use them for war as a benefit or riding horses and allowed more movement. This in turn made them manly and women were only allowed to wear dresses. So we got stuck with the pants.



I dont understand why would they feel angry about this big decision ... Why cant they(my parents and society) accept me as the person I am now?

To be blunt, it's the stigma society puts on people who don't fit into thier mould as freeks or wierdos. They may feel a range of emotions from shame to faliure.


I hate boy's clothes. I hate the fact that I have to wear them regardless how I feel.

You are not alone. I'm detesting them more and more. It's a real sore spot for me. Men's cloths are dull, and lack style color and flare. I'm sick of baggy boxy clothes.

So what do you think why do society feels rejection to people like us????!!!


People should learn the concept of tolerance and freedom.

They should but they don't. There are people who are tolerant, but that doesn't mean they will be your friend and hang out with you. How else do you think society forces people into thier ideals?

On a personal rant here, if women were held to the same dress standards I am, almost everyone of them would be considered a crossdresser. I don't consider myself a crossdresser, just a guy who is sick of dull clothing choices that haven't changed in years.

[Kate Simmons]

They are afraid of us Hon or rather afraid of their own sexuality. Suppose it was the norm for men to wear dresses, put on makeup and generally look nice? Do you think everyone would be happy? Far from it. If, say, we chose to wear pants and dull clothes, there would be an uproar in society saying we were freaks and weirdos because we didn't want to wear a dress. Be glad we have the relative freedom to do what we do. It could be worse for sure. They could require that all TG and CD people register so we could be more easily identified. The next step would be putting us in camps so we would be together and not running loose. The final solution would be to get rid of us because we don't conform and are viewed as a "threat". Sound familiar? I'd fight such a thing to my last breath, not so much because of the crossdressing but because I value the freedom to be myself. It may not be "convenient" for us sometimes but at least it's not impossible. Also, I enjoy reading just how "inventive" our sisters are and what lengths they go to to be themselves.If something has value, it's worth the effort. It's challenging sometimes and no one said it was going to be easy but at least we have relative freedom of self expression. Value what we do have as it could always be worse. Ericka

[fionasboots]

Hello girls I think I just raised a big question here.I love to crossdress and I do it whenever I can.I buy my clothes.However I am still not in position to tell people I know because they would freak out and would start to talk about religion,that man should not dress up as a woman,etc.


Not being an expert in religion in general or any specifically (which therefore makes me highly qualified to argue about it) I'm curious as to whether any "faith" and/or "religion" actually prohibits or discourages CDing? Is there anything written down that comes close to "thou shalt not look girlie"?

Sorry, I was being a bit flippant there, but in all seriousness I would be interested to know if any such prohibitions actually exist ... or whether it's more culture than faith/religion?




However why is this reaction?Why do they think that men should always wear pants and shirts?I started dressing since I was 18 (I am almost 30 years now)however I have a hormonal imbalance in which is causing my
boobs to grow.I am happy with that I think.On the other hand,I feel angry
because I cant tell my parents how I really feel and that I want to be a woman.That I love to croosdress.I dont understand why would they feel angry about this big decision,my life,as a man,has been horrible.


You shouldn't have to life a horrible life no matter what gender you are or want to be. You only get one life and really you have to enjoy it the best you can.



Why cant they(my parents and society) accept me as the person I am now?


I would think that, optimistically things are getting better, people are more experienced about different aspects of life and are less and less shocked by things that aren't "normal".



I want to put on a dress and go out to the streets,I want my mother s approval.I cant accept her rejection and I think that she is starting to suspect and mainly because my boobs are growing.What can I do?


Well, I can simply pass on the advice that I've been getting on the thread I started about coming out to my wife and that is an overwhelming "you've got to do it".

I would agree that breaking this sort of news is not hard (and I'm sure I'll be thinking it's even harder when I actually do it) but really, sooner or later you're going to have to do it.



It is not fair to judge people for what they are and what they have choosen,
you have every right to wear any kind of clothes that you want and you can even choose your gender.If you want to be female,so be it isnt that so?


Absolutely. I'm all for people doing what they like, with the strict proviso that they don't cause any harm to others when they do it.

I think most people probably feel the same, but there are some that have very strong views, and they probably shout louder sometimes than the rest of us.



So let me ask you these:Why do you think that some people believe that
croosdressing should be forbidden and that man shall not drees as a girl?

Personally,I Love every kind of female clothes specially lingirie and I hate
boy s clothes.I hate the fact that I have to wear them regardless how I feel.


Well, lets be honest here, there is a much, much wider range of female clothes and generally they feel a whole lot better than the rough stuff guys are expected to wear. And I make that as an objective point, irrespective of CDing!



So what do you think why do society feels rejection to people like us????!!!


Fear, ignorance, envy, trying to make someone else the target of "blame". I guess every minority community has, at one time or another being the target of "blame".



Crossdressing is wonderful dont you think????People should learn the concept
of tolerance and freedom.

When you can figure out how to do this then tell as many people as you can before they come and hunt you down! Really the world would be a much, much better place with more tolerance and freedom but, at the moment the more negative emotions seem to rule :(

Anyway, on a more positive note. There are lots of tolerant people around that can give support, advice, help, and kind words ... and there's quite a few of them here :D

[Stephanie Spice]

Hey Sakura

The most important thing to know is that you are not alone. Your feelings and frustrations are echoed by all of your sisters. Interestingly no one individual is ever excepted by everybody. Even the Prom Queen has her detractors. Hate and rejection comes in all shapes and sizes and prejudice runs rife in small minds. You need to be aware that your choice to cross dress is neither unhealthy nor immoral nor inappropriate. The individuals with prejudice are unhealthy, immoral and inappropriate. Just remember your OK no matter what else happens.

Big hug,

Stephanie

[Carroll]

Not being an expert in religion in general or any specifically (which therefore makes me highly qualified to argue about it) I'm curious as to whether any "faith" and/or "religion" actually prohibits or discourages CDing? Is there anything written down that comes close to "thou shalt not look girlie"?

Sorry, I was being a bit flippant there, but in all seriousness I would be interested to know if any such prohibitions actually exist ... or whether it's more culture than faith/religion?


Some quick research and I found this:

What Deuteronomy Says
As far as I know this is the only reference to crossdressing in the Bible.
Let's also note what else Deut. 22 tells us.

It tells you what to do when you find someone else's cattle (verses 1-4).
It tells you what to do if you find a bird's nest on the ground (verses 6-7).
It tells you that you have to put a railing around your roof to make sure nobody falls off of it (verse 8).
It tells you not to plant more than one kind of seed in the same vinyard (verse 9),
not to hitch your plow to an ass and an ox at the same time (verse 10),
NOT TO WEAR CLOTHING OF MIXED FIBERS (verse 11 -- look, more potential alt.clothing.lingerie content!! -- "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, AS OF woollen and linen together" (King James version, emphasis mine), and
that your clothing has to have fringes on it (oh, how sixties -- verse 12).
It tells you what to do if a man claims that his wife was not a virgin when they married, and what to do if he's right and what to do if he's wrong (verses 13-21).
It tells you that adulterers must be put to death (verse 22).
It tells you that a woman betrothed to someone who has sex with someone other than her betrothed, in a city, and doesn't cry out, shall be put to death (verses 23-24).
It tells you that if a woman is raped in a field where there's nobody to hear her cry out, you kill the rapist but not the victim (verse 25-27).
It tells you that if a man lies with a woman who is not already betrothed, they have to get married (verses 28-29).
Finally, it says you mustn't sleep with your father's wife (verse 30).



So unless you're Jewish (come to think of it, I don't know about Moslems -- could someone with a clue share it with me?) you don't have to worry about Deut. 22:5 -- unless you're one of the minority of Christians who doesn't think that Christians are exempt from strict obvservance of Old Testament law. And if you are, then there's a whole looooong list of other things to worry about besides crossdressing. Do you know how much work it is to keep a kosher kitchen if you don't live in a Jewish neighbourhood? And just how thoroughly you have to clean before Passover? (Come to think of it, just learning all of that stuff is difficult if you weren't raised in the culture ... I know an awfull lot about it for a goy, but every time I talk to a Jewish friend about it I realize how much I still don't know.)
So if someone tells you that crossdressing is a sin, tell 'em, "Yeah, I know, it's in Deuteronomy 22:5. Let's talk a little about the law, shall we? Uh, you DO keep kosher, don't you? And ah, you NEVER wear mixed fibers, right? And gosh, that's amazingly little facial hair you have -- I mean, I know you'd never SHAVE (or 'round the corners of your beard'), right? And you wouldn't even TOUCH a member of the opposite sex unless you're married to her, not even to shake hands? Er, you DO know your Bible, don't you? At LEAST the part about he who is without sin casting the first stone, in the other half from all those other rules?"

Then visit his house and see whether there's a railing around his roof.



ref: http://www.radix.net/~dglenn/words/deuteronomy.html

I am hoping this might some of you with the religion question

[Lawren]

"So let me ask you these:Why do you think that some people believe that
croosdressing should be forbidden and that man shall not drees as a girl?"

Hi Sakura,

I believe that this question is the sum of your post so I will try to answer it. Keep in mind, please. that this is just my humble opinion gleaned from my personal experience only.

That is a very generalized question but it has an infinite number of specific answers. Each answer is taylor made by an individual to fit their own point of view. Each POV is affected by the person's own prejudices, (i. e.: race, creed, religion, sex, political POV, heritage, upbringing, fears, peer pressure,... the list is endless.) People have a tendancy to forbid anything that they personally dislike. If it doesn't fit into "their little world" then it becomes taboo to them and therefore should be taboo for everyone else. Fortunately, most people will only make visual or verbal objections to "the offender". Sadly, there are some that will resort to violence to enforce their opinion.

[SherriePall]

Sakura -- Apologies to Gene Roddenberry: "We are the final frontier."

[Casey Morgan]

I won't go into detail on the history, but I've read pants were origonally womens apparel. They then started to use them for war as a benefit or riding horses and allowed more movement. This in turn made them manly and women were only allowed to wear dresses. So we got stuck with the pants.

Actually, pants were originally mens apparel. Shortly after their introduction in the Middle Ages, the phrase "wearing the pants in the family" entered the lexicon with the same meaning we're used to. Far from men "getting stuck" with pants, men used them to separate themselves from women.


You're so right. Well, unless you consider being automatically assumed to be a butch lesbain if you dress "too male" to be a problem. Or if you consider being told "you're so pretty, you really should dress more like a girl" to be a problem. Or...

On second thought, maybe we were ALL raised to discriminate when it comes to clothing and we simply need to see that as a societal hangup. I'm still battling my own "thou shalt nots", so I probably won't be the poster boy for "wear what you want" anytime soon. (Yeah, I know I waffle.) But I'm coming out of the closet slowly but surely. That has to help.

[Carroll]

I decided to actually look up Deuteronomy 22, verse 5 of a King James Version

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; For all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God"

So I guess all women will be going "you-know-where"

Remember that this is in the old testament and the bible sometimes conflicts its self. I am a Christian and go to church most sundays. I go as Chris though.

Carroll

[Marla S]

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; For all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God"

The problem is not that particular verse.
The problem is the strict gender binarity expressed throughout the bible, which was read and spreaded by the curches, and has been formative for our cultur.
This includes that men are still seen as superior to women. With this as background a social/sexual descent is always less acceptable than an advancement.

[Carroll]

I agree with you Marla. I was told once that I was an enigma by the person the host my article, Vicky Vogue (Danny). Because I went to church but cross dressed, and did an article supporting gay marriages. Danny thought that since I went to church, that my views would be different. There are somethings in the bible I don't agree with. I am sure that if the bible was re-written with todays society in mind it would be a bit different. Well that is all I will post on the religous asspect of this because it can become a very emotionally heated thread and I dont want that.

Carroll

[Sharon]

Why cant they(my parents and society) accept me as the person I am now?

Unless you give your family and associates a chance to know the truth about yourself, you'll never know if this statement is correct.

[Charleen]

Great post and replies! The general population makes judgements on appearnce and catagorizes the person by pre-concieved notions that they have been taught through the years either directly, or indirectly as they go through life. See a guy in cowboy boots and hat, he's a red neck. see a woman in very manly clothing, she's a lesbian dike. I could go on, but you know what I mean. I have to admit that I have been, and am still guilty of this, though I am trying to change. As we do what we gotta do, especially those of us the dress to go out in one form or another from subtle to fulltilt, we become more visible and eventually I think people will get used to us. We just have to be careful not to hit over the head with a sledge hammer, as that would just annoy then further. No one likes to have anything pushed upon them. It's a tough row to hoe, as societal thinking is deeply ingrained, but if you think about it, there has been some change, abet small, as in the acceptance of pierced ears on men, manicured nail and the like. That being said, it's going to a long time I fear, before going out in full gear is going to be condoned, but the fight is on and we will make inroads. As far as the bible goes, I heard something years ago that I love- god made the universe, but it was man who wrote the bible. Love and xxxx, Lily

[janedoe311]

Why do Muslim woman have to cover themselves up but not men?
Why do women have to cover up their chests on beaches, but men do not, men have breasts also?
Why is it ok for little girls to play dress-up in boy’s clothes and not OK for boys to play dress-up in girl’s clothes?
Why are public signs of affection not allowed in come countries?
Why is it ok for girls to cry but not boys?
Why do moms and dads help their little girls up when they fall but expect the boys to get up “on his own”?
Why can women wear men’s clothes without attracting attention but men cannot wear woman’s clothes without attracting attention?

Why is it ok for woman to wear suits and have dominating jobs, but not OK for a man to wear a skirt or dress to work or on a walk on a hot day, even a skirt made for a man like a utility kilt? (There are skirts and utility kilts made for men. But a man walking downtown in a utility kilt or men’s skirt would get harassed.)

It is based on law, culture, religion, current tastes, etc, (the Bible has statements about men and women “crossdressing”.) Even fashion has had influence on what is acceptable and what is not. Tastes change but unless men start wearing woman’s clothes this will not.

There are or were laws forbidding someone wearing a “disguise”. The reason for the law was to “hinder” criminals. Just added one more charge if they wore a disguise when robbing the bank!

Some is based on just surviving and biology. Men protect the family and women take care of the kids. If the men did not have the overdose of testosterone, then the family would have been eaten by the saber tooth cats and human race would have not survived the caveman days!

People are just not “used to it” so crossdressing will attraction negative attention

Passing as the opposite gender or just wanting to be comfortable is different but still treated the same for men.

So we need a revolution of men wearing skirts and dresses to make it acceptable!

So the answer to your question, it is simply it is what we are “used to”.

As far as parents go it is very hard even if they are “open minded”. I am a parent of two girls so I can understand. You want your boy to be a boy and your girl to be a girl. You want them to get married and have kids. It is the natural cycle of life. Show your parents that you are a boy. Show interest in boy things. They are afraid you will be gay or want to be a girl. If you are gay, then it will take time, do not push. It is a parent’s worse fear that their child will not be normal!


FYI:
In old Japan there was a class of geisha that was a very expensive prostitute and respected by the society. They expected loyalty from their “customers’. If their customer went to someone else he was punished by forcing him to wear a woman’s kimono!

If every male with man boobs (gynecomastia) wore a bra and did not hide it people would get used to breasts on men and eventually not blink when they see one!

Men got out of being drafted in the 60’s and 70’s by being and pretending to be gay or TG.

100 + years ago mothers dressed their boys in dresses and long hair until they were potty trained. The boy’s hair was shorter than girls and did not have ribbons etc. Their dresses were less frilly and feminine. I do not know if there were skirts or dresses made just for boys then.

[DonnaT]

Unless you give your family and associates a chance to know the truth about yourself, you'll never know if this statement is correct.
I agree.

Why are you posting about your parent's feelings when you haven't even talked to them yet?

Seems to me you should talk to your mother. First about the breast growth. This is not uncommon in men. It may be a form of Gynecomastia. If you want this to continue, that is your choice. Howver, you should see a doctor to determine the cause.

Once you discussed your breast growth with your mother, I imagine she'll ask if you've seen a doctor. You may then want to explain why you haven't, or if you have, why you want the growth to continue.

You may find some answers here. http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/tgfgnl.html

Especially with respect to Deuteronomy 22 verse 5: http://members.tgforum.com/bobbyg/deut22v5.html

[Dee 1062]

Why cant they(my parents and society) accept me as the person I am now?
Maybe they would if only you will belive in yourself ...I'm sure it may hurt alittle but your parents will always love you no matter what...so untill you can get it out you will always be the one to hurt...The crossdressing you need not to tell but if you want to go from male to female you may want to tell...start with you mom first...they seem to understand best. Unless your father is a....nevermind...

[Sakura Kinomoto]

Thank you all for your great responses.I feel a lot better now,although I dont feel ready to tell my mom about my secret,I am willing to go along with my
breast grow.I like how they look,but honestly I am scared about telling my parents.Hey imagine telling them, "You know,my breasts are growing,I
crossdress and I want to be a female".Boy surely they would freak out!!!

Anyway you are all very kind and I love this site and everything about it.
Your support and understanding is what I am looking for.I hope that I could find that from my parents,it is a rough world,and I know someday I will tell them but not today.Thanks for your replies!:o :o :o

[typical_guy]

My family are southern baptist evangelical christians. After being raised in that environment and then coming to terms with who I am - I'm not even sure I believe there is a god anymore at all. I think this is also part of why I'm starting to come out so much more and more about who I am. I was hiding about it for so long and felt like I was doing something so utterly and inately WRONG that now I just don't care.

[Kate Simmons]

Digging deeper into the research, the whole thing was that is was forbidden for a woman to put on male battle dress to fight with the enemies of Israel. The women had their duties, the men had theirs. For a man to dress as a woman to 'shirk" or hide from his duties to fight the enemy was an abomination. For a woman to take up the war duties of a man by donning battle dress, it was an abomination. If you look at the modern Israeli Army however, that went down the drain a long time ago, as women serve in the Army right alongside the men and wear the uniform. Ericka

[Lawren]

In Israel in Biblical times male and female roles were strictly defined and enforced. Crossdressing would allow people to cross these lines of demarcation and therefore was forbidden. There are numerous reasons for this. Here are a few samples. Of course these are my interpretations of what I have been taught and I may be wrong.

Men were supposed to be the leaders and wage aerners of the family. Women only kept house, reared children etc.

Women were not allowed into the temple. They were to wait at home with the children until the man came home and delivered the teachings to them.

Also, there are many sexual sins associated with crossdressing. I'm sure that everyone is aware that crossdressing does cause sexual arousal, at least part of the time, and that leads to lust which is also an abomination.

Ok, enough sermonizing. Yes, I am Christian and have read/studied the Bible but do not like to force it upon anyone else. I prefer to live and let live.

I sincerely hope that I have not offended anyone but if I did, please accept my apology in advance.

[noname]

I'm sure that everyone is aware that crossdressing does cause sexual arousal

Uhhh...... No, never has.

[tekla west]

I'm pretty sure that god gave us eyes because he wanted us to see, so work the genital theory out for yourself.