CD Dresses and Gowns

[CD retailer]

Hi all:

As a proprietor of a business that specializes in beautiful gowns and dresses, with price points that range from $400-$4000, I am considering how to best serve the CD market. Let me begin by stating that while I am not a member of the CD community, I am a friend of the community. Tolerance and understanding are part and parcel of how I was raised. My feeling is live and let live to all. There is no room for intolerance in my life.

So....given that we are experts in the dress business, I am considering a few options;

1) opening up a website that offers gorgeous dresses, gowns and suits, in all sizes, I might add; in this case, the purchaser would have to know their size (we always suggest to size up a size or two), and find a local seamstress to do alterations (which are almost always needed).

2) host monthly sales in the suite of a major hotel (starting w/NYC first, expanding out to other cities once we ascertain our level of success);

3) opening a CD niche retail store.

The permanent store would be our final option once we get our feet wet with one or both of the first two options.

So here are my questions (and of course your comments are welcome):

1) would the CD community be okay with dealing with someone who was admittedly not a member of that community, though as I said before, a friend of that community?

2) would the CD community have a sizable amount of people that would be interested in spending a little more money for better dresses, suits and gowns?

3) And if the answers to the aforementioned questions were affirmative, what would be the best way to market one or all of these ventures to the CD community?

Thanks in advance to all!

Scott Jonathan

[Ashley in Virginia]

So here are my questions (and of course your comments are welcome):

1) would the CD community be okay with dealing with someone who was admittedly not a member of that community, though as I said before, a friend of that community?

2) would the CD community have a sizable amount of people that would be interested in spending a little more money for better dresses, suits and gowns?

3) And if the answers to the aforementioned questions were affirmative, what would be the best way to market one or all of these ventures to the CD community?

Thanks in advance to all!

Scott Jonathan

Hi Scott. I am not gonna attepmt to answer for the community, I can only give my thoughts.


1. Dealing with someone who is understanding and comfortable with dealing with me is more important than worrying if u r a dresser or not.

2. Me personally, while I like nice things, I have to admit my funds are limited. Spending alot of money one a peice of clothing I would get to wear 3 hours a month isnt in my budget.

3. As for marketing, The best thing would be word of mouth for me. I have heard alot of stories about "cd friendly" stores being rip offs. To have several people come to me gushing about your products and services would entice me more to shop with you than would any advertisement you could do yourself.

Hope this helps. :)

[CD retailer]

Hi Ashley:

Thanks for your feedback. I couldn't agree with you more about word of mouth. That is precisely how our current after five business - over 15 years old - has been built. I am not familiar with other businesses that might have used "cd friendly" to entice in clients, but as I always say, the proof is in the pudding.

[Carroll]

Hi Scott. I am not gonna attempt to answer for the community, I can only give my thoughts.


1. Dealing with someone who is understanding and comfortable with dealing with me is more important than worrying if u r a dresser or not.

2. Me personally, while I like nice things, I have to admit my funds are limited. Spending alot of money one a peice of clothing I would get to wear 3 hours a month isnt in my budget.

3. As for marketing, The best thing would be word of mouth for me. I have heard alot of stories about "cd friendly" stores being rip offs. To have several people come to me gushing about your products and services would entice me more to shop with you than would any advertisement you could do yourself.

Hope this helps. :)

I also agree.


what'd you expect, an other comment like find citys and towns that are known to be friendy to CD's...like say...Ithaca, NY. Hell open a store here I would even work for ya!
The price range is not in my budget at all and I think you will find that to be true with most of us.
WALMART RULES LOL


And thats my 0.02 worth
Carroll

[Julogden]

Hi Scott,

My only comment is that, while I am sure that your clothes are fabulous, your price range is beyond what the average crossdresser can afford, so I wouldn't be expecting CD's to be a real significant source of income for your business.

Regarding your first question, there should be no problem with you not being a member of the community, as long as you deal with us honestly and with respect.

Just my opinion! :-)

[CD retailer]

Hi all:

I appreciate your comments very much. It's interesting; as my business caters to women who are either hosting major parties (mother of the brides, etc) or are party guests, they seem not to be too cost conscious. I guess they feel that with special occacions comes the need for special dresses. If this community, on the other hand, is not necessarily wearing dresses for large scale parties, but rather, more for going out, going to work, whatever, then I can readily understand how my price points might seem too high. Here in the NY area, as well, I think there is a little different attitude when it comes to spending on clothes, particularly special occasion dresses.

I guess my inquiry was really to find out if people from the cd community who attend "major" parties (weddings, bar mitzvahs, etc) in women's clothing are interested and/or able to purchase "better" drfesses and gowns.

Price aside, I do wonder whether you all might be interested in having something like a monthly store set up in regional hotels where less costly dresses could be offered to you in a safe and warm environment...

Again, this is all great info for me, and very much appreciated from all of you. So thanks!

[EricaCD]

While cost is not particularly an object for me in buying clothing I really like, do not enjoy shopping at places that specifically cater to CDs. I have no problem with, and in fact appreciate, stores whose clienteles are female but that are also CD-understanding. But I don't want someone saying to me "here's what the CDs seem to like" or "here are sizes that work for CDs". And I certainly don't want to go into a store and be shunted to the "CD" section. For me a big part of the shopping experience is enjoying the shopping from the perspective of a woman, not a CD.

Hope that makes sense. Good luck!

[CD retailer]

I believe I do understand what you are saying, and it's a good point. Thanks for your response....

Scott

[paulaN]

scott I shop at wall mart and good will for my stuff. I too can't aford pricy things. I wish you the very best though.

[Charleen]

Scott, Welcome. If only other retailers were as understanding, Oh well. In N.Y. if you let it be known that you are CD friendly, you will probably have a path worn out leading to your store. Given as how diverse this community seems to be, you might have a market for those that are looking for something for that special occasion. I wish you the best. Lily

[Gunda]

Scott,
While I, as a CD, am certainly not against your idea of having a high-end shop catering to MtoF TGs I think, along with others here, that setting out the parameters of what niche of retail clothing sales you wish to occupy is important. From your post it seems you are aiming to sell posh, high priced formal wear. While I love gowns as much as anyone on here (my stash is full of them) I, myself, shop at the thrift stores as $400-$1000 is badly out of my price range. Having said that I think you are indeed wise to set up shop in an area or areas in which the customer demographic can afford such things and in which the population is large to begin with - assuring yourself a large enough customer base. I confess that if you were to open a store in my smaller-sized city I and other budget CDs like me would be persistent visitors but would on the whole be less willing and able to afford your product, love it though we might. Just my $.02. Good luck on your endeavor though.

Best,
Gunda

[jackie66]

It sounds like a good idea to supply quality dresses to the CD world. However, speaking as an amateur couturier, who uses a computer program to ensure accuracy of fit. The general CD world cannot, I believe, afford to purchase these garments. The majority, judging by the responses in this very forum, just are not interested in fine dresswear. The usual response is; "lovely dress but I dont go anywhere to wear it".
Many girls ask me if I can make them a dress. I reply that I can, but not at high street prices, also that I wont use cheap fabrics.
To those who say they would love one made. I usually say ok. but you must come to my home so that I can measure you properly. Only one girl has actually come to my home. I have made the dress (from a 50's photograph) but it is still hanging on my dressrail --I dont know when,even if, she will collect it

[Michelle_cd_girl]

I think there's a fairly common denom. here, that being that most of us feel guilty enough buying a dress for our girl side, while the wife has been frugal with money or the kids (always) need new clothes or want that new bike. Also, we still need to buy our drabwear, so to double-up on clothes for our inner self means that we're spending more overall on ME ME ME. Thus I will seek deals either in a goodwill or thrift store, or on Ebay. The only things I generally buy in a retail outlet are panties and stockings (unless I can't resist some slinky and silky thing). I've NEVER spent more than $80 on any single item in a retail store (and even that was when I was single), it's just too hard of a pill to swallow. However, I HAVE occasionally spent larger amounts of money on the odd item on EBAY, since I can easily think about it for a while without having to buy on the spot or make a return trip, AND there's that anonymous easy window shopping aspect.

There IS the compulsive/obsessive or impulse aspect of buying (which I do when depressed), but given the choice between a "higher quality dress" and 3 dresses of lesser quality (when it's questionable whether anyone else will actually ever SEE the difference), I know that personally, I'd make the budget-smart decision and stretch my money as far as I can.

Again, much of the problem is justifying the expense, both to one's self, and to a spouse. I've suffered enough guilt for this without putting undue stress on myself for purchases I can't justify. And it's not a productive thing when you spend more on the "other woman" than you do on your spouse.

0.02

[jackie66]

The difference CAN be seen believe me. I make my dresses to make the male look good in a dress. I call it tranny cut. commercially available dresses are a compromise fit for FEMALES to wear. Perhaps if the TG world was more acceptable to joe public, more girls would be interested in better quality

[Casey Morgan]

Hi Scott. I'd like to add my two cents to this discussion. (Gee, if everybody adds their two cents, posting here could actually be profitable.)

My mother and my sisters wouldn't pay $400 for a dress irregardless of the occasion. But then we're small to medium size city folk. I can't really say that anyone in my immediate family has ever been to anything you could call a soiree. I would imagine you could do quite well in the larger cities though.

Also, a CD would have to be pretty well out of the closet (in my mind anyway) to attend such a social occasion dressed in a $400 dress. That will cut down on your clientel too. Which is another reason you should do better in the larger cities.

[CD retailer]

Hi again:

Your answers are wonderfully inciteful, and really very much appreciated. I am getting a much broader understanding of the purchasing trends of the cd community, and for that I am very grateful. Not only from the aspect of learning something I did not know about, but also, to help me refrain from making a costly mistake in a concept for a target audience whose buying trends I am only starting to understand.

One final question for all: Our dresses, which sell in our current store from $400-$4000, are not necessarily seasonal by nature, as day dresses are. Special occasion dresses (and they really are gorgeous) have exceedingly long shelf lives, as a whole. Periodically, it is time for me to change up the samples, either because they have been tried on alot as samples (most of our sales are by special order after our customers try on a style), or it's just time for a change. Sometimes small alteration fixes are required (zippers, a small open seam, etc) but in general, they are brand new dresses. In these cases, I have gone on to Ebay and sold them for what we call in NY "bupkus" (lol)...Anywhere from $100 to perhaps $200.

If I put up a web page (perhaps in conjunction w/Ebay sale) of pictures/descriptions/prices of these dresses, would you all be interested in this (again, these are VERY expensive dresses that are being let go for 2-5% of their original retail cost)? Any sales would, of course, need to be final sale, but we would always make suggestions as to the fit of each dress, how to size up if needed, etc. I have sold dresses in this way w/Ebay before, but I never brought the sale to the cd community in any way. Would this be of interest?

Thanks again! And thank you to the administrator for allowing me to stage this mini-focus group!

[Casey Morgan]

Now there's an idea Scott. I'm single, so I'd either save my pennies or use some tax refund money. But I would definately consider buying.

[Michelle_cd_girl]

Yeah, the Ebay idea's probably worth a go. No overhead to speak of, and you're getting rid of your dead stock. I think that's definitely more of a market.

I agree with you on the FIT issue however. But again, justifying a major outlay for many is difficult, regardless of the fit. Single people and those who LIVE as a woman may have a different take and be more apt to consider a quality garment, since they have more "payback time" in the dress.

[Christina Nicole]

I am in the NY area and don't see a problem with the price range that you specified. I would not be buying a lot of items, of course. But once in a great while there is a CD type of event that I have gone to where such an outfit is just the right thing. If you would send me a private message, I'd love to see if you have anything I'd like.

Another point about prices. There must be many crossdressers in the NYC area who would not have an issue with $400-1500 for an outfit. Veronica Vera operates "Miss Vera's Finishing School for Boys Who Want to be Girls" in NYC. She seems quite busy. A quick review of her rates (http://www.missvera.com/tuition.html) indicate that many of her clients don't seem cash starved. If you are in NYC perhaps you can have her send some customers your way. Be creative if you pursue an option such as that.

An e-commerce web site or ebay type of sale doesn't really require that the buyer or seller consider if either party is male, female, or a crossdresser, so I think that is not material. You may wish to have a dual faced web site with one side being more traditional (for women) and the other side more "CD friendly" but essentially the same as the first. Your costs would not be much more for the two personalities, but would provide greater exposure and potentially more in sales. This may not be possible due to limitations in your agreements with your designers and manufacturers.

If you want to do direct to consumer sales from a retail location, your best opportunity to do that with crossdressers is to visit some local CD support groups and explain what you have to offer. Then provide an after-hours appointment shopping time for crossdressers who want to shop in-person, but not when women are in your store.

Best regards,
Christina Nicole

[Michelle Hart]

Hi Scott,

One thing you may not have considered is "where" we could use your dresses.

Many of us are in the closet, I'm fortunate that my SO knows and is supportive. Think about it like this. I buy your big poofy ballgown hang it in the closet and my girl see's it and does'nt blink. She pushes it out of the way to get to her sweats or something else.

The closeted girl in the same situation has to try and explain to the wife, etc. "where the hell did this come frome, What's going on, How much did this cost", and so on.

Even if the gown was moderatly priced, it has to be kept some where. Many of the other girls here have a hard enough time hiding our "stash" from the wife.

I think all of us hear would love to wear a bridal or some other type of ball gown. The desire is there. It's the mechanics behind it.

How can I afford it?
Will my Wife etc. find it?
Where can I put it on or wear it?
Will it fit properly or close enough?
How will it be shipped and can I intercept it before the wife?
What kind of hassle will I have on returns if any?
Does the seller "know" it's for me, do they care?
Now that I have it, can I wear it anywhere or just formal events?


Just a small list of what we go through when we are looking to buy a gown or any other womens clothes.

Just my thoughts