how can it be the 'real' U?...

[kwebb]

I seem to be sinking into another snit. Between that exchange yesterday and some things I heard last night, help me out. For those who think this part of you is real. How can it be?

Fake breasts, fake hips, fake hair, fake nails. Fake names. Instead of it being an expression of wht you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped.

What you have put on the outside down thru the years has seeped into the insde and now you don't really know what you really were in the first place, before all of the fake stuff.

How would you respond to someone who came at you with this?

[Ms. Donna]

Well, look at it like this: something deep down inside motivated you to do this in the first place. Some part of you identifies with the image created by all the 'props'. It all creates a sense of resonance within you.

Were the above not true, I strongly doubt that it would all 'seep in' over time. You would reject it all as creating a disonance as opposed to a resonance.

What you are struggling with is, IMHO, self acceptance. It is far easier to accept that the artifice of it all is to blame than it is to accept that this is who you are deep down at the core.

You can walk away from the props - you cannot walk away from yourself.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Marla S]

Well, fake isn't uncommon if it belongs to beauty.

Makeup, nail polish, breast implants, facelift, botox injection (cosemtic surgery in general), wonder bra, dental crowns, any kind of prosthesis etc., etc. Even women wear wigs to if they suffer from baldness.
Fashion is completaly artificial (One would need a sack or fur only).

All these things only have the justification: To express the inner self as good as possible and to feel comfortable in the own body as good as possible.

[Kate Simmons]

The real person is the person inside, being male or female notwithstanding. "Real" women use everything we do to enhance their looks., hip padding, padded bras, silicone forms, makeup, wigs, nice clothes, etc.(not to mention breast implants, liposuction, the list goes on and on.)The object, in my thinking, whether you are a "real" woman or not is to feel good about being yourself.You have to be honest with yourself as to who the "real" you is. In my case, Ericka is the combination of both parts of myself. It's what I need to do and who I need to be right now for various reasons, the least of which is to look like a woman. I don't pretend to be something I am not inside or outside. With Ericka, what you see is what you get(sometimes to the chagrin of my sisters), regardless of whether I decide to look like my femme self or my male self. Works for me anyway. Take care, Ericka :happy:

[Teresa Amina]

How would you respond to someone who came at you with this?

:eek: I suppose trying to explain that there is a trancendent reality to our being which isn't reflected in our outer appearance won't work, but it might distract your questioner some. Then you could throw in something about all those past lives of yours to throw them off, but in a pinch all that hormone wash stuff will really bore them to tears. Probably like talking to the wall with most people. If something doesn't fit their idea of "reality" they're going to reject it anyway. If you're "real" you just know it, simple but true.

[GypsyKaren]

Nothing you cover your outside with has anything to do with who you are inside as a person, the outside is just a shell. To me, fake hair and such is just as fake as a suit and tie, they just look better on me.

Karen

[Brianna Lovely]

No matter how we dress or act, "Two Spirit" people have been around since the begining of time.

Perhaps, because our perceptions are clouded by societal norms defining what women and men should look like, we are confused.

First, accept who you are, a "Two Spirit" person, blessed with both female and male characteristics.
Now, decide how you want to express your inner self.

Remember, a person can not accept and love others, until they are able to accept and love themselves.

[kwebb]

Thanks, I really need answers/perspectives on this as I felt myself slippping into a self-loathing spot I have not been in for months. But yesterday, all of the second-guessing and doubt started to really creep on me.

Its as if I heard or saw the wrong thing at the wrong time and it could set off this avalanche of negativity in my spirit.

[Lawren]

I do not think of Lawren as being the "real me". She is just a different aspect of the total package that is me. For me, that eliminates the whole conflict about who I really am.

[Karren H]

Well I like dressing the way I like to dress!! If it's a business suit and tie for work, hockey gear for when I play ice hockey, or a pretty dress with all the trappings for going out enfemme.....it's what I like to do, plain and simple...

If you see that as being fake then that's your problem...not mine!!!! :)

Love Karren

[Calliope]

Fake breasts, fake hips, fake hair, fake nails. Fake names. Instead of it being an expression of wht you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped.


Maybe I'm crazy (well, actually, I'd confirm that) but I think this is a really valid consideration. When it takes, say, three to four hours to 'get ready to go out,' it does beg the question: If it takes that much effort to bring forth the woman inside, does she really have much persona or will-to-live?



"Real" women use everything we do to enhance their looks., hip padding, padded bras, silicone forms, makeup, wigs, nice clothes, etc.(not to mention breast implants, liposuction, the list goes on and on.)

And there are plenty of equally 'real' women who don't shave, don't use make-up, don't emphasize their sexuality and don't give a damn about following media-created codes of appearance. These are my models of femininity.

Women's lib!

[connie rotten]

I think you may have just seporated crossdressers . transvestites , and transexuals from one another. Going from anexternal expression of derssing up to the deepest internal desire to be a woman.
Some crossdressers only put on some woman's garments. While others like me do away with body hair and dress often in full drag. It still is a guy pretending to look like a girl.
My friend Joanna is a transvestite who lives pretending to be a woman for long periods of time. Joanna goes away when the clothes go back in the closet.
My friend G is a woman with a pinus 24/7. I think this makes her transsexual.
So to reply I would say I think it depends on how superficial is the girl role for you.0.02

[Tiffy]

Well for many you could ask how it is the real them. But maybe they feel the real them should have breasts and nails. And unless we see a surgueon or steal them off a GG we have no choice but to use fake ones. And NOONE should ever tell me that because all I can say is "Live it BI&*H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


April Marie

[Melinda G]

Real women are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are gonna get.:D Melinda Gump

Ever see a real woman, naked, without any makeup, nylons, high heels, short skirt, bra, falsies, girdle, wig, fake ponytail, etc. Eeeaaaauuuuuuu. :eek:

[SherryLynn GG]

Real women are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are gonna get.:D Melinda Gump

Ever see a real woman, naked, without any makeup, nylons, high heels, short skirt, bra, falsies, girdle, wig, fake ponytail, etc. Eeeaaaauuuuuuu. :eek:

A "real" woman is a woman without all of those things....just because you dont find that attractive doesnt mean there isnt a man out there that appreciates a woman without all the "fake" things

Personally out of that list of things the only thing I wear is makeup and a bra....women dont need hose, high heels, short skirts, false anything, or a wig to make them a woman....Just my opinion

[bgirl]

REAL or PERCIEVED?
It doesnt matter how we input the experience or what props we use for anything. How we react to anything is how we experience the world. Our experiences shape who we are. The WHO that I am has a very feminine side. When I pretend to be a woman there is no pretense, I am as feminine as I can be.
We do the best we can with what we have. Whats a little spandex among friends?

[Stephenie S]

Dear Kwebb,

I guess there was no question but that I had to weigh in on this one. I never look on Stephenie as being "fake". Stephenie is me and I am Stephenie. This is pretty much 24/7. I guess this is what I mean when I say to friends, "I am exploring my feminine side." The real me, Stephenie, has been crushed under a facade of invented macho image all her life.

To this end, I don't want all of that you characterized as "fake". I want my own nails, my own hair, my own breasts, my own hips. Now, let me say I do wear breast forms, not because I like to, but because it seems to help my feeling of "completeness" or "rightness". This is the best I can come up with for an explanation. And in the past, I have worn all of what you described. You are right, for me, it felt fake. And also a bit like a sausage all wrapped up in an external casing. So I am trying now to go with the minimum I can and still feel "right" and whole. So am am growing my hair and nails, trying to find clothing that accentuates the positive (tall and slender) and minimises the negative (no hips and butt) and I do feel more free.

It must be pointed out however, that ALL of what you descibed we borrow from the GG community. We don't accuse them of being fake when they take advantage of the beauty industry. For instance, wigs are not manufactured for the CD/TG community. It is a massive industry which would collapse overnight if GGs stopped buying wigs. The same is true for every "fake" item which you mentioned. Perhaps it makes you uncomfortable when someone uses EVERY one of them all at the same time. But some of us are starting from a place where we may feel we need ALL the help we can get to produce our female side. There is really nothing wrong with this and you might raise a few hackles by stressing the "fake" aspect of our presentation to the world. And then, some of us have no interest in presenting to the world, we do it for ouselves in the privacy of our homes.

lovies,
Stephenie

[Stephenie S]

Oh Melinda!

That wasn't very nice,

and really not true either, was it dear?

I know you were just trying to be funny, weren't you?

Steph

[Tracy Lynn]

I remember when I was younger the phrase was "Getting all dolled up" as my parents used to tell my sister. What is wrong with wanting to look more pretty or sexy? That doesn't make who you are fake. It doesn't matter if we use any of these products or not, we're still the same person. Sometimes we just like to get DOLLED UP.

[eleventhdr]

It is there and some of us want to be there also.

Or at the very least be as close to it as we can get.

Yeah think you that real women always look nice when they are alone very problay not but then that is how they really are just as men are when they are alone we are not what we put ourselves out to be either.

So that said why the heck do you think we want to go to all of the problems and troubles to get ourselves to look and be like real women.

It is because on the inside that's what we really are as well we were just very unfortuate to have been born into the wrong sex at our current birth.

You do see a lot of us are really female and just want to get as close as we can by doing what we see real females doing when they put on there front's for us indceed.

So like being a girl is something awful if and when it were then why would there even be such a sex.

No it is there and we want to join it and be like it or as i am saying as close as we can get at present

Maybe yet one of theses day's there will finally be a real way for us males who want to be female wil be allowed to become so.

Oh Oh what a day that will be.


But like anything else until that time it very problay will still be misconstued that we are strange weird sick or something because we want to go where we really do belong.

And why is that what is so terrible about it absoulty noting.

It is jsut that the world and our times still do not want to ackoledge this fact but it is there and is not going to ever go away.


Yeha since we ever frist discovered that there was time there have been the people who wanted to be waht they were meant to be male female what have you what does it really matter.

We are all what we are and we are all just Human and should learn to get along.

Nuff said!.

Jay Suzy!:

[Calliope]

Thinking about this a bit more, it is a somewhat complicated issue.

A lot of the beauty industry is supported by older women battling the onset of age - and, of course, this applies more or less equally with CDs. For me, there's a lingering trace of the generation gap with this - a lot of those Zsa Zsa types really did look foolish - and ghoulish. The (now-aging) boomers have their liposuction and lasers, so perhaps their vanity is less conspicuous.

At the same time, the high heels, nuclear-powered lipstick and butt enhancers offer an exaggerated view of womanhood. It's an especially sexual presentation of femininity - and, as many GGs will point out, looking (that) sexually desirable is a minor part of a woman's experience. I would submit dressing like a hooker is not a sincere homage to the female spirit.

On the other hand, I'm surprised so few CDs go for the Goth look (plenty of makeup there) - intrinscially fem, yet relatively nonhorny. Maybe it's such a teen thing.

[Jill]

I have to honestly say that I agree with what you are saying. Nothing about this or what I do is real or true. It's all me trying to be something that I am not. Not to mention the lies, deception and the hiding that goes along with it. Of course, these are things that describe my own dressing and not necessarily others, but I do agree with the point that you are making. It is awefully fake, I wouldn't have a response. But I've also never claimed that this was a part of me or it was who I am, I've only said that I enjoy it.

[~Kelly~]

Let me ask this, who is real? Clark Kent or Superman? It's funny that when describing Clark Kent he is always referred to as the secret identity of Superman, even though he spends about 99% of his time as Clark. The real you is who you are inside regardless of what perception you are trying to portray to the world.

[tekla west]

Fake breasts - Ok I will cop to this, I have a pair of silicone inserts, but mostly I do not wear them, I have bras that fit me and my little A cups, good enough

fake hips - never

fake hair - I'm a hippie, perish the thought, when I grow it long, its mine, when its short, its mine too

fake nails - never

Fake names - well the name I go by when I'm out and about is KAT, short for Katrina my middle name. I designed my femme name to have Katrina in it, so I could be called Cat, because that is what a lot of my friends call me in guy mode. (Its a 9 lives deal). So in this, its not really a fake name, its a nickname that I go by all the time.

Instead of it being an expression of what you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped. - I would think the goal is to merge the two. To blend them into a single person, who is the same one way as they are the other. Took me a long time to get that right, but when I did, its been calm seas and smooth sailing.

[Calliope]

Fake names - well the name I go by when I'm out and about is KAT, short for Katrina my middle name. I designed my femme name to have Katrina in it, so I could be called Cat, because that is what a lot of my friends call me in guy mode. (Its a 9 lives deal). So in this, its not really a fake name, its a nickname that I go by all the time.


I think it's computer life that really proliferates the names. I used a handle or two when I wasn't dressing, and a pen name before that. So a 'fake name' enfemm comes pretty easily.




Instead of it being an expression of what you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped. - I would think the goal is to merge the two. To blend them into a single person, who is the same one way as they are the other. Took me a long time to get that right, but when I did, its been calm seas and smooth sailing.


I would agree wholeheartedly with that.

[Joy Carter]

Just who am I hurting here ?

[kwebb]

...continuing to allow myself to be shackled by questions only I can answer for myself. Taking 2 steps towards acceptance only to take 4 backwards towards self-disgust.
All I can say is socialization is a mutha.

Allowing comments of others to cause me to totally second-guess my nature. Hell, I know full well who I am and all I hear is just be yourself.

Whoa, its hard to just be me.

They may say that, but they don't really want that. They want you to be who they want you to be. And since they are God's spokes-people on earth, they KNOW what they want is what God wants. I know, they are shallow.

My only solution is to just tune these kinds of comments and things out. But its hard because everywhere within earshot this is what I hear. Someone always making some kind of "I don't understand those kinds of peoples (gay, tg, etc) they need Jesus" comments.

I can't take it anymore. I may start drinking tonight.

[sportschick]

A "real" woman is a woman without all of those things....just because you dont find that attractive doesnt mean there isnt a man out there that appreciates a woman without all the "fake" things

Personally out of that list of things the only thing I wear is makeup and a bra....women dont need hose, high heels, short skirts, false anything, or a wig to make them a woman....Just my opinion




How right you are SherryLynn. A woman is truly an awesome creature..baffling,but awesome!

[spoonie]

Are we fake ? or is every one else fake.and we are real?I hope SO!
I have just come to terms with me and I like it
Lots of love
Spoonie
have I just sent this or have I dreamed it:tongueout

[Teresa Amina]

My only solution is to just tune these kinds of comments and things out. But its hard because everywhere within earshot this is what I hear

A good solution really. You just have to keep in mind it's your life, not theirs.

[Kimberley]

Hi k
Self Acceptance. Such a simple word, simply overused in my opinion.
"Oh oh I had a revelation, it is self acceptance. I am so happy!"

That of course is total nonsense but I see a lot of it on the forums.

Self acceptance happens slowly, over time with a lot of questioning and self examination. We look at things like our values and how they conflict with our actions. We look at our relationships and how they conflict with our needs. We look at our needs and try to reconcile them with our daily life. It isnt easy. It is a PAINFUL process. Ask any of us who have gone down that road. The hell of it is, it never ends. As a new card is dealt we have to deal with it, genuinely and honestly. The one person you cannot fool is yourself.

We talk a lot about "duality". Certainly that does exist and some people can compartmentalize it. Those who cant have to learn to live WITH it. That is the process I was driving at above. We have to come to terms with all of us, not just Jack or Jane. They are the same person although we try to separate them and it makes us crazy.

In the end we find an internal peace where we can honestly say this is me, this is how I am. Dont like it? Go away. That is self acceptance. When you can be at peace with yourself. Once that happens you can go forward with your relationships. You can decide for yourself how you are going to live. There is all this and more.

If your focus is on the physical things, the forms padding clothing etc, then you have totally missed the point of who you are or should be. We are all transgendered to some degree. It is how we deal with it that counts.

Hope this helps.
(Sorry if I was a little abrupt or apparently insensitive. It wasnt intentional.)

:hugs:
Kimberley

[kwebb]

..and the proof is in it itself. When you can hear all sorts of negative stuff about this part of you from people you know and don't know.

And its does not phase you in the least.

That for me is when you know you've found it, true acceptance. I mean nothing anyone could say or do will shake you from you center or even cause you to give a rat's arse about it.

Just like a post I recall by Melainie R. About being on a ship with a guy that says he did not pay to be on this boat with these weirdos.

Did it phase her in the least. Nope. She is confident enough to know who she is, and not have a problem with it.

These answers are within grasp, and I can feel myself grasping closer. And life will be so much sweeter when I finally cross that threshhold, once and for all.

Sometimes I think I've got it. Then those same old stuimuli that pushes my buttons starts to push them again.

But the proof is in it, when those same p.ple that used to push your buttons can no longer push 'em.

That is when I will know for sure.

[Adrienne Heels]

I have a male side and a female side, and I am being the real me when I am dressed en drab or en femme. I cannot help that I have very real urges to be Karyn at times, urges that can be almost overpowering. Karyn is a very important part of who I am.

[Barb Valentine]

It is real it's a mindset
All the other thing are to make the eyes see that we want them to see
And how we feel inside

[Calliope]

If your focus is on the physical things, the forms padding clothing etc, then you have totally missed the point of who you are or should be. We are all transgendered to some degree. It is how we deal with it that counts.


I quote the above because I think that thought deserves close attention - words to live by really, and profoundly put.

[Lisa Maren]

Hi there, kwebb

I mean no offense at all, but if you're thinking of something on the outside affecting something on the inside then it's you who has it backwards. I can only speak for myself, but it is something on the inside that brought me to try dresses, pantyhose, etc, and not the other way around. I became a crossdresser because I have a very strong feminine side (stronger than my masculine side) so all that's happening is a soul is trying to be able to experience a wholeness that mother nature declined to provide. The fact that I can only do that at the moment with some false things does not in any way mean that the reason for using those false things is fake.

It isn't my fault that mother nature left me incomplete, is it?

Hugs,
Lisa

[Dee 1062]

Hey my tatoo is not fake.

[Charleen]

Hi girls, Gotta add my0.02 . I am me. I am both Liy, and Charlie. Externally, I am definately Charlie because of the plumbing. The rest is most definately Lily. I have finally come to realise after too many years of doubt, fear, guilt, worry, ect., that Lily is the strong one, the predominate one, and always has been. I agree with Lisa, you got it backwards. It was Lily trying to express herself that first got me into my Mom's girdle many, many years ago. As far as the unwashed masses go, who cares? They're brainless idiots who would rather believe what someone tells them, rather than to actulally try to educate themselves. To paraphrase one of my favorite authors, Robert Hienlien, "Never cease to be amazed at peoples stupidity". If I cease to be amazed, I will only get P.O.ed. A lot of people I meet every day in the tourist trade are either dumb or down right ignorant. I tend to feel sorry for most, as I realise they really do not have a clue, and yet I can see they are happy in their own little deranged way of looking at life. There is a saying- Live and let live. I try to do that as hard as it can be some times when up against someone who thinks the opposite, and believes I should act, behave, dress, according to their own narrow outlooks. If I can't please myself, then who can I ever hope to please next. Iam Lily, even if I don't shout it from the rooftops, and it has taken many years to get here. I will not allow anyone to degrade me. If that means keeping a few thing about myself from those who won', or can't understand, so be it! I can go on can't I? The externals to me are some what important. I have my own long hair and nails, B-cup, wear 5 rings(does 4 out of 5 being skulls qualify me as semi-goth?) shaved, red toe nail polish, clear finger polish, all when in drab make me fake? I don't think so! If anything, it makes more real, as this is who I am!. Kweeb, You gotta give time, time. nothing happens overnite. As I said, It has taken me years to reach this point of acceptance. Enough from me. LOVE and xxxx,Lily

[Kate Simmons]

A good solution really. You just have to keep in mind it's your life, not theirs.
You hit the nail on the head Teresa. Good point. Ericka

[Ranee Daze]

The cleavage you see is skin and flesh....although taped.
The hair is definitely mine, longer than average male and highlighted, but really mine.
When I dress those are my nails, just painted.
That is my crotch, only a little flatter.
My hips, just enhanced a bit.

My point here is that we aren't doing much that GG's often do. Many GG's add to their bustline, alter their waistline and manage their butline. They wear mascara, and lashes and all of that other stuff.

Really, when you see Ranee Daze you are seeing a simply better, and more feminine, version of me and how I feel.

[Rachel Morley]

Instead of it being an expression of what you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped.
I'm not sure I agree. I do however agree very much with Lisameaghan's post.
Everything we do comes from what we think... from the inside. We are more than the sum of our parts. It's what we are in our conscious and subconscious that ultimately makes us who we are. When I look in the mirror I want to see the person "who I know I am" looking back, but often what I see is not how I know I'm feeling. I know I'm more feminine in nature than I look like when I'm en drab. So why can't I sometimes want to see a person looking back at me who is more representitive of how I'm feeling inside?

So to me, all the so called "fake stuff" helps me look more like I'm feeling...that's all.

[dann]

[QUOTE=kwebb]
Fake names.


I have to say that I kind of agree with the fake name thing.I use to use a fake name but have since dropped it and just use a shortened version of my "real" name. Fortunalty Dann is usually short for Danile whereas Dan is short for Daniel. So I have that benfit.

ahhh whateva

[SUZIEQ]

New to this whole scene,but I read your message and it meant a lot to me.

Dave/Suzieq

[NighttimeGirl]

Real to me is Kieran going to the wardobe and coming out of the room as Linda :hugs:

I am there when I am getting dressed and putting the make up on it is very real to me lol

in the seriousness of it all when i am Kieran I dont talk about the real me so in a way I am not being real so when i am en femme it feels more real to me and that cant be wrong?

oohh this is all getting academic now, going to lie down :tongueout

Finding eternity arouses reactions
Freeing excellence affects reality

"Ian Brown"

[swiss_susan]

Clothes, wigs makeup and all the rest do make a person.

I use these as a means of expression. I am not two people with different personalitites.

The "real" me is still me regardless of my accesories.

Susan

[Lisa Golightly]

I seem to be sinking into another snit. Between that exchange yesterday and some things I heard last night, help me out. For those who think this part of you is real. How can it be?

Fake breasts, fake hips, fake hair, fake nails. Fake names. Instead of it being an expression of wht you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped.

What you have put on the outside down thru the years has seeped into the insde and now you don't really know what you really were in the first place, before all of the fake stuff.

How would you respond to someone who came at you with this?

I've had breasts since twelve years old... I actually get less hassle as a girl, than a boy with breasts.

[noname]

Someone always making some kind of "I don't understand those kinds of peoples (gay, tg, etc) they need Jesus" comments.

IMO everyone does.

[Kristen Kelly]

Well I like dressing the way I like to dress!! If it's a business suit and tie for work, hockey gear for when I play ice hockey, or a pretty dress with all the trappings for going out enfemme.....it's what I like to do, plain and simple...

If you see that as being fake then that's your problem...not mine!!!! :)

Love Karren

Look at it as painting a picture each idem as a brush stroke each thing enhances the others. My GF asked "Why do you have to use makeup", I asked her back the same question her answer, to look better, question answered. I want to look my best when dressed.

[NewbieCD]

I seem to be sinking into another snit. Between that exchange yesterday and some things I heard last night, help me out. For those who think this part of you is real. How can it be?

Fake breasts, fake hips, fake hair, fake nails. Fake names. Instead of it being an expression of wht you feel on the inside being manifest on the outside, could it somehow be flipped.

What you have put on the outside down thru the years has seeped into the insde and now you don't really know what you really were in the first place, before all of the fake stuff.

How would you respond to someone who came at you with this?

I can tell you straight up i would not fight myself this hard just to wear clothes of the other sex it is a emotional rollercoaster and i do not want to be on it but i can tell you this this is a part of me from birth i have a fem side in or out of the clothes and all the fake stuff if you are like me you use dressing as a way to get both the male and female side to meet on middle ground so you can form your own judgement on how you should act and react to society instead of, this is how a man is sposed to act i can tell you the truth i like to dress a lot but a huge part of me wishes I did not need it. That I could explore my feelings no matter how i looked. Does what we put on the outside seep into what is on the inside h*ll nah. I was girly before i ever put on a stich of clothing but life made me hide and shut down that part of my self to the point i need to take on Brandy to let it out.

[sandra-leigh]

Ever see a real woman, naked, without any makeup, nylons, high heels, short skirt, bra, falsies, girdle, wig, fake ponytail, etc. Eeeaaaauuuuuuu. :eek:

Yes, a non-trivial number of them without any of those, and a much larger number with only makeup.

I find that there is something very honest about casual nudity. I would not have any difficulty in staying at a nudist resort for a few weeks -- and if you have ever been to one of them, you would know that the "hot young babe" is in the minority there. Many of the women there are 40's and older, and that's fine with me. (Except it is a bit difficult, psychologically, to walk up, naked, to a woman "old enough to be a grandmother" -- you sort of expect to get a scolding for not being dressed :) )

I do admit that nudity of the quite obese is not my favorite sight, but I figure that that's my problem, not theirs.

[sandra-leigh]

i can tell you this this is a part of me from birth i have a fem side in or out of the clothes

Myself, I'm not sure what a "femme side" is. And I don't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Other than a couple of very small-scale experiments when younger ("Oh, there's some pantyhose thrown out here. What's it like to wear them?"), I did not cross-dress until about 2 years ago. I have never been the masculine ideal -- little interest in organized sports or cars or drinking or recreational farting, or whatever. On the other hand, I also had little interest in "feminine" activities like sewing or beauty or dancing or whatever. Not "anti-social" (I don't dislike other people): more like "asocial" (fairly introverted.)

But I must have given off some kind of "fag rays" or something like that, as I was called a "fag" from at least grade 4 onward, including by strangers driving by in cars, even whilst I was wearing lumberjack shirt and jeans and short hair [though my hair is more commonly long than short.] And no I don't walk limp-wristed or something like that.

So perhaps others see in me characteristics that are "feminine" without my knowing about them. Masculine? Feminine? Huh?? This is just me, too stubborn to be other than I am.

I don't know that I feel feminine when I dress up; it's more complex than that, and I cannot articulate it very well as yet. But I find womens' clothes to be very comfortable to wear: I enjoy wearing skirts and dresses, but I'm still me.

True, though, there are some things I will wear en femme that I wouldn't wear as a guy (and I say that as a guy who has worn pink/orange shirts to work -- i.e., not too concerned about whether I'm perceived to be "masculine".) Earrings for example -- when I'm en femme, I like wearing some as part of the total package, but I wouldn't feel right wearing them in drab. There are a number of tops that I would be willing to wear either mode (and my wife hasn't realized what some of my regular clothes really are :) ), but at some unillucitable point, tops become "too female" and I'm only comfortable wearing those while dressed. And no matter which mode, I'm just not happy with tops that have much glued on to them, or that have too much pattern-stitching.

So, there is some kind of distinction within me, but I still wouldn't say that I feel "feminine" when dressed.