Hating

[renee99]

I think I've boiled down a few themes behind the thought processes people that hate crossdressers.

1. Pity. You are a failure as a man - the dominant gender - and that is why you chose to retreat into the passive gender.

2. Disgust. For example, a male might be offended that he is in some way attracted to you. Or a female may think, what a shame, he was such a handsome man and now he's such an ugly woman.

3. Insult. A male might see a crossdresser as making a statement that being female is better than being male, thus categorically insinuating that the male sex in general is inferior. A female might see a crossdresser as making a statement that femininity originates in the clothing and not in the heart.

Any others?

[Sarah Rabbit]

I think a Lack of Understanding may be at play..After all unless One has been there, how would One know what it is like

Sarah R. :bunny:

[Calliope]

Any others?

4. 'Damn! That looks like wild fun, too bad I'm such a hopeless bore.'

[noname]

I don't think we are exactly hated, well not by all. In fact I was about to write a post about it. I believe cd's are misunderstood. But in regards to the reasons listed, I'm sure there are a few more, I just can't think of them off hand.


4. 'Damn! That looks like wild fun, too bad I'm such a hopeless bore.'

Isn't that the truth. If I may vent yet again... Guys cloths are soooo boring. Women have so many tops on pants/ skirts styles I could only dream for that many choices. So many different types of fabric, and textures.

[Lisa Golightly]

Surely these are things that a lot of crossdressers feel about themselves? I have seen many say the self-same thing about themselves. I normally only ever get the 'What the ****?' look, or the grin and elbow in the ribs routine... 'Big hands'... lol ;)

[NewbieCD]

Maybe cause we are a threat to the whole gender structure that society needs in order to feel safe and warm? Just a thought.


( Oh excuse me my bitterness is showing!!!! :heehee: )

[Joy Carter]

Yeah I too was going to post something along these lines. An X friend always said that "guys only dress as women to be able to get into another guys pants." I'm being nice here what he said is not fit for nice company. It just slays me what some people will say about a given subject not knowing or have experience at it. So yeah I think it was defiantly hate motivated to what the X friend said. As a side note just how can you dump a friend after over forty years because of what someone else said or thinks ? I guess he flunked the true friend test.

[ReginaK]

Yeah I too was going to post something along these lines. An X friend always said that "guys only dress as women to be able to get into another guys pants." I'm being nice here what he said is not fit for nice company. It just slays me what some people will say about a given subject not knowing or have experience at it. So yeah I think it was defiantly hate motivated to what the X friend said. As a side note just how can you dump a friend after over forty years because of what someone else said or thinks ? I guess he flunked the true friend test.

Sounds like he flunked the logic test as well. A guy wearing a dress probably isn't going to get into any guys pants.

[sandra-leigh]

I think I've boiled down a few themes behind the thought processes people that hate crossdressers.

5. Crossdresser --> homosexual, and everyone knows that homosexuality is immoral, deviant, fattening, contagious, and that they are pedophiles and beastialists. So crossdressers must be too.
(In Canada, during the parliamentary discussions last year that led to "gay marriage" being approved nationally, some people really were saying "Gay marriage is just a step to polygomy and marrying animals.")

6. That which is different is to be feared.

7. If you aren't obviously male and you aren't obviously female, you are no longer really human [unless you are a cultural star.].

[CDtv]

A big emotional statement is a result of their jealousy. You can walk in heels and look damn good doing it and they can't. It just kills them

[Gurly]

People are threatened (or disgusted, or appalled, or amused) by crossdressing because it goes against everything they are taught or led to believe while growing up. For those of us who do crossdress it's more like, "what's the big deal?" and unfortunately there are those who will NEVER accept crossdressing. It's very similar to racism. Until the end of this world certain people will always be against the race of their choice, all based on ignorance and stupidity. Same goes for crossdressing. Your loved ones and friends will either accept it or not and this is the way it will be. For those of you who are fans of John Prine, he said it best........"It's a big old goofy world".

[Stephenie S]

Dear Renee,

I think, that Joy touched on the real reason other men feel hate and disgust for cross dressers and or transexuals. She quoted someione as saying "men only dress as women to get in to another man's pants".

I think this hatred and disgust stems from FEAR. Homophobic fear. Men, especially young men learn early on that a homosexual act is just about the worst thing that can ever happen to them. Some men would rather die than commit a homosexual act. I think in their mind, a man dressing as a woman is doing so to trick them into a homosexual act.

The murder of the young transexual in California, Gwen (I can't remember her last name)(there was a TV movie based on her murder recently) is a case in point. If she had been a guy giving them oral sex, she would not have been beaten to death. The fact that they found out she was not genetically female so enraged them because they had been TRICKED into a homosexual encounter. This fact led to her death at the hands of otherwise normal (well perhaps a bit antisocial) young men.

Now, as to where this rabid homophobia comes from, I can't say. Fundimental religion? Perhaps. Gender jealousy? Fear of the unknown? Perhaps. I learned early on in my childhood that if I wanted to maintain my fragile macho image that I needed to gaybash with all the rest of my guy friends.

So, IMHO this hatred of TS/CD stems from fear, fear of homosexuality.

Stephenie

[gennee]

It can be any of the reasons listed. I think it's because CDs goes against the grain. Cds are misunderstood because no one has taken the time or interest to find out what they are about.

Gennee


0.02

[Karren H]

2. Disgust. For example, a male might be offended that he is in some way attracted to you. Or a female may think, what a shame, he was such a handsome man and now he's such an ugly woman.


Please find the following correction on item number 2....last sentence...handsome man should read ugly man and ugly woman should read cute chick. Please make these corrections and email the revised document to all partys concerned! Thank you!


Hehehe :D

Love Karren

[Di]

I think it's because CDs goes against the grain. Cds are misunderstood because no one has taken the time or interest to find out what they are about.

Gennee


0.02 The above is the only reasonable answer I see here as far as your reasons Renee...I do not agree with any one them...esp 1. Pity. You are a failure as a man - the dominant gender - and that is why you chose to retreat into the passive gender.......That reason ticked me off

[HaleyPink2000]

renee99


Not a big thing.:D But wondering why your profile has nothing listed about you? I know It don't really matter just wondering? :heehee:

Oh, and I'm not a failure as a Man. I'm a Man that at times wears women's clothing. Hmmm?

[renee99]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone. A lot of men tend towards the 'good ole boys club' mode of thinking. If you don't want to be in the club, that must be because you can't compete. But they don't realize that it is only in their mind that competition is important. This theme probably leans more toward acceptance of the TG than the CD. It just continues to baffle me how 'queer' culture in terms of sexual orientation is accepted more than crossdressing is.

[tekla west]

Well, all of those sound like good reasons. Reasonable reasons even. Its a rational thought process that arrived at sensible thoughts. However, hate is powerful, and its power lays not with reason. Hate is a base emotion for humans. Like Lust. Like Greed. As such it overpowers reason. It supersedes rational. It feels, and has no need for though - save scheming. Emotion is never sensible, and the base emotions are powerful beyond anything considered sensible.

The century we just came out of was a high water point of hate, and this new century is proving to be picking up where the last one let off.

The images - and as the four generations that could possibly read this, are four of the only 5 or 6 generations that had any such images. Dacahu. Abu Grieb. That strange fruit of Billy Holiday's of young black males lynched in the Southern USA hanging from a tree as people posed for group photos below. Death Camps and Death Marches. Machete parties in Rwanda, and rape/death squads in Kosevo, in our lives, were allowed to happen. Slaughter in Africa is ongoing. Death squads in Latin America. Airplanes flying into tall buildings and people jumping to their death and Shock and Awe in Bagdad as we - in retaliation - bombed a defenseless civilian population. And for each of those, images in your head. You saw the results. You watched some of it happen live - and we'll be right back after these messages from our corporate sponsors.

There is no reason - and there can be no reason - for hate, because hate is not rational, its emotional.

What could be the reason that Gwen was beat to death for giving some guy head, I thought blow-jobs were supposed to make people feel good?

Reason, your barking up the wrong tree here. No reason about it. Still on the emotional level, I can understand it.

What I do not understand, is how those not caught up in the emotion, those who remained rational, stand by and do nothing. That's the mind trip.

There are lots of things that might trigger hate of TS, however none of them are reasons, all of them are emotions.


I will tell you this, queer culture is more accepted because they got off thier ass, out of the closet, and fought for it.

[renee99]

Well, all of those sound like good reasons. Reasonable reasons even. Its a rational thought process that arrived at sensible thoughts. However, hate is powerful, and its power lays not with reason. Hate is a base emotion for humans.
[...]
What I do not understand, is how those not caught up in the emotion, those who remained rational, stand by and do nothing. That's the mind trip.
[...]
I will tell you this, queer culture is more accepted because they got off thier ass, out of the closet, and fought for it.

You make a lot of sense. I guess I should have titled the post, themes why I feel that I am not accepted instead of sounding like I was generalizing on everyone's behalf. Because it is clear that many others are accepted.

[spoonie]

[QUOTE=noname]I don't think we are exactly hated, well not by all. In fact I was about to write a post about it. I believe cd's are misunderstood. But in regards to the reasons listed, I'm sure there are a few more, I just can't think of them off hand.



YOU SAY WE ARE NOT HATED ARE YOU ON THIS PLANET.Ive ended up in hospital more times than a care to go into ,for no other reason than being a CD. From the age of 5 I have been bullied Pick on humiliated beaten.stabbed,Bottled,etcThe list goes on and you say we are not hated .Man Ill have a bottle of what you are drinking

[battybattybats]

Lets not forget that women can be homophobic too. Plenty of GG's I've known have made homophobic comments, particularly anti-lesbian ones. Someone who feels that way may have a lot of trouble with the notion of someone they love suddenly being female... and if they find them attractive in that state that would be even worse.

Much of the conversations of the women I've known that have made anti-lesbian comments have revolved around hate in some form or another... hatred of this or that celebrity, hatred of this or that television or movie character, judging people because of their weight or their clothes or their car... and always the person making these comments has a lot of personal issues such as self esteem etc. They seem to have to hate other people to make themselves feel better.

[Bernice]

I like Tess-Leigh's reasons 4,5,6 in post #9 above.

Hatred is not a family value. For some reason, diversity training is required, and for most people it is at least partially succesful.

I think the cultural oppression of women in both Judeo-Christian and Muslim religions is also part of the problem of hatred against all who fail to neatly fit the binary myth of human sexuality.

Some people have a great deal of trouble with inter-racial couples. But even more people seem to have trouble with the offspring of such unions, because the children are not 100% this or 100% that. As though the children had a choice in their genetic makeup! The children pay a terrible price.

I think the inter-racial issue is roughly analagous to our own, except that we can and often do hide in our closets - to avoid confrontation - and thus we make progress almost imperceptably.

Gwen was Gwen Araujo. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Araujo

Unfortunately, there have been so many other victims. See http://www.gender.org/remember/index.html :hugs:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i dont think crossdressers are "hated"...i think misunderstood and somewhat feared are 2 better words... i think if someone is making fun of me for something its usually based in those 2 things and i certainly dont think it takes up much thought in 99% of guys minds

0.02

[noname]

It can be any of the reasons listed. I think it's because CDs goes against the grain. Cds are misunderstood because no one has taken the time or interest to find out what they are about.

Not certain about that. Women have sucessfully over the past 100 years been able to wear mens clothing such as pants. Most women are the biggest hypocrites. :Angry3:


It just continues to baffle me how 'queer' culture in terms of sexual orientation is accepted more than crossdressing is.

No kidding. Mostly because they came out if you will, organized, have been working to get laws passed.


Ive ended up in hospital more times than a care to go into ,for no other reason than being a CD. From the age of 5 I have been bullied Pick on humiliated beaten.stabbed,Bottled,etcThe list goes on and you say we are not hated .Man Ill have a bottle of what you are drinking

I'm so sorry to hear of that. What I was saying was that not everyone hates us. Leaves me wondering if what I'm doing is really that dangerous.

[Khriss]

... sexuall insecurity...I find, comical at times..till it leads to violence (esp. -physical) or descrimination...while I'm well aware of the "real" world I live in and hope to function in with minimal "grief" as well ...eh ?? :eek: :D xx"K"