So you're just a guy?

[Casey Morgan]

Six weeks or so ago I came out to my parents. The CD part they already knew about. (I had been caught years ago and recently I started getting catalogs addressed to me, so that was just a "yes, it's official" thing.) But they didn't really believe the TG part. They didn't totally discount it but they thought it was most likely just a part of some identity related issues I've had in the past. Oddly enough, they had been expecting something like me coming out as TG. I don't know what their thought process was and I was too devestated to ask. I had suddenly become their son with the "mental health issues" again.

Tuesday I saw a therapist for the first time. Towards the end of the hour he said that he thinks I might be androgynous. We talked a little about that and how androgynous people have "male and female skill sets" (my phrase although I don't remember anything being worded that way), although we never really touched on gender. At one point I said, "So when I feel my gender shift it's really just me bringing the best set of skills to the situation?" He said yes.

Later that night I told my mother that he thinks I might be androgynous and was quick to add that it was obvious that we both understood that neither of us took it as a statement of absolute fact. She thought, as I did actually, that androgyne meant you dress and act to give no clues about your gender. I told her my therapist said it's about being both rather than neither. (Yes I know, some people dress to give no clues rather than conflicting clues.)

And then she asked me the showstopper. "So you're really just a guy?" I didn't know how to answer that, so I just said that we didn't get into that and let it drop.

Now, I know the therapist had to be careful. (And yes, he deals with gender identity issues. He was recommended to me specifically because of that.) And I know I may be overthinking things and jumping to point E when E doesn't even exist. It may also be that ever since I came out I've been wondering if I'm just reading myself wrong. (That will happen when it's suggested by people

I almost get the feeling that he thinks my gender issues is simply me only having been shown one general way to be a man and one general way to be a woman. And I wonder if I gave him the wrong idea when I said that my gender shifting is really JUST (emphasis added here only) me bringing different skill sets to a particular situation. Kind of like I now see what all this is about and really my gender is just male, thanks so much for your time, what do you say we move on to that low self esteem thing now?

But I also get the feeling that he wasn't saying anything about gender yet. Yes we talked briefly about how the men in my extended family have acted one way, the women have acted another, and I think and act like both. He never gave me the therapist's version of "dude, you're a guy". And since he works with people with gender identity issues you would think he knows that androgynes don't tend to think of themselves as either/or in terms of gender.

I know how I feel. And isn't gender largely your own idea of how you fit into your society? So am I wrong to feel that my gender is "other" ("both" feels too much like it belongs in the either/or camp)? Knowing why my gender shifts doesn't negate the fact that I feel it shift, does it?

Hmmm. Maybe until my next appointment a week from Monday I should just take an agnostic view of my gender. "Maybe I have one and maybe I don't and I'll never know for sure." Beats the heck out of stressing out about it.

[myMichelle]

Wow...You're really dealing with some seriously in-depth issues. I wish you all the best, and I hope that counselling helps. (BTW I think it's marvelous that you can even bring yourself to talk to a man about such things. When ever I go to counselling, one of my prerequisites is that the counselor must be female. I just can't bring myself to discuss these issues with a man.) Good luck and keep us posted.

[Bella]

I tend to feel androgenous when dressed as a male, but know what signals to give when I want to show overtly male traits. But I do feel a real shift when I dress female, even when not thinking about it I move, dance and express myself differently, enough for it to put my (possibly ex-) girlfriend completely off me as being a different person.

I believe it's then that you just get the whole of me rather than the bit that has to always be male while in a relationship.

[Caitlintgsd]

Granted, he may be an experienced therapist and all. But does anybody really know a person after one hour well enough to make a real good assessment? A previous counselor of mine did that as well. It felt like pigeon holing to me. Especially as I hadn't said much except for family history and all of that stuff. We never real even discussed my present state of mind.

[Wenda]

But does anybody really know a person after one hour well enough to make a real good assessment? A previous counselor of mine did that as well. It felt like pigeon holing to me... We never real even discussed my present state of mind.
I agree with Caitlin, listen to your inner self. Not to say that the 'pros' are wrong, but my experience is that 3 out of 4 'counsellors' tend to very quickly put you in a little box. With their experience, there is a chance they may be right, but there is no guarantee. Try to keep your head clear and be honest. Everything will fall into place. :happy:

[Michelle Ellis]

Good Luck to you Shari. I feel I can relate well to what you're going thru. I think Caitlin is right. Don't let your doc put you in a box. You're taking a real step forward with counseling, something that doesn't feel right for me, so I really have no room to speak here, just take care. Hope things work out for you :hugs:

M

[allisonloveslovin]

Gender is primarily an assignment that stems from your reproductive anatomy (sex). Society, in general, just uses it to know what to expect from you. It is merely to simplify a very complex social world. If you were rebellious, you would choose neither but that may not be true based on sex, unless you were a hermpahodite (SP). However, you could choose whichever biological sex you are (assuming you are not a hermaphodite) as a reference point and just allow people who spiritually connect you to recognize both you masculine and feminine qualities.

[rosiegurl]

gender (physical) is no more than what sexual organs you were born with.

gender (mental) is an entierly different thing. it has been proven that males and females act differently out of, for want of a better word, instinct. Even down to very young children, toddlers and such that the females, if left alone WILL act differently to the males. the one study that sticks out in my mind was where they placed a group of 5 year olds singly in identical rooms with exactly the same toys. the boys almost all went for things like cars and guns and such, while the girls all went for dolls and teddies etc..

this is by no means a definitve study, as the test group was way to small for that, and even there, there was one or 2 disparities.

to be honest, I think your gender identity is nothing more than what YOU think you are, male, female, androgynous or even nueter.. what is right for you, will be wrong for someone else.

[Lilith Moon]

Here is a classification that is frequently used in TG circles:

Sex...what you were born with between your legs...male/female/other

Sexuality...who you like to go to bed with..heterosexual...homosexual...don't worry

Gender...what you feel you are inside...a man...a woman...androgyne

Of course, each of these classifications is not binary, as I've tried to indicate by showing a third option for each one. There are infinite shades and, no doubt, other equally valid ways to classify people but this one is surely better than the simple man/woman version that society tries to force onto us.

:2c:

[Stephenie S]

Dear Shari Ann,

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself and your therapist here. Give the whole situation some time. I has to be very difficult to come up with anything definate after just one session. Many of us go for years, I saw my therapist for months before he was satisfied about my diagnosied.

I know your mom is anxious to find out if you are "all right", i.e. "just a guy", so reasure her that you are "all right", and keep seeing your therapist. It's too soon to be talking about diagnosis here.

On a related note, one visit should have given you some idea about weather or not you two are compatable. How do you feel about that? Did you "click" with this guy? That's a big one. You gotta be able to feel comfortable because you gotta open up to this guy. There can be NO holding back if you want to have a successful therapy.

Good luck here dear,

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Casey Morgan]

Granted, he may be an experienced therapist and all. But does anybody really know a person after one hour well enough to make a real good assessment?

No, certainly not. It felt like we both understood that he wasn't giving me a diagnosis and that I understood that. I told him before the visit that I believe I'm dealing with gender identity issues (it's so hard to know without talking to a professional just what that does and doesn't entail). I also gave him the Reader's Digest condensed version of the pertinant parts of my life to date. Currently I identify as genderqueer. I've read that it's not uncommon (perhaps even common) for androgynous people to identify as genderqueer first.

So when he said that he thinks I might be androgynous it said to me that it's possible that I really do feel the way I do gender wise. Lately I've been wondering if all of this isn't just all in my head. Having your parents believe that this is all part and parcel of your mental health issues will do that to you.

Hey, here's a thought. Could I be confusing what it means to be male or female with what it means to be a man? As in, I can be a househusband (something we talked about) and make my wife's breakfast and stand at the door with her lunch as she leaves for work and greet her at the door when she comes home, and still be just as valid a man as my father and grandfathers even though (bless their hearts) they would be uncomfortable in that role? Perhaps I'm still unconsciously attaching some incorrect ideas to my definition of "man".


On a related note, one visit should have given you some idea about weather or not you two are compatable. How do you feel about that? Did you "click" with this guy? That's a big one. You gotta be able to feel comfortable because you gotta open up to this guy. There can be NO holding back if you want to have a successful therapy.

I did click with him. I'm looking forward to going back. You're right, you have to be comfortable with your theparist. All of my best work has come when I've gotten just a little uncomfortable talking about something but trusted the therapist enough to keep going.


BTW I think it's marvelous that you can even bring yourself to talk to a man about such things. When ever I go to counselling, one of my prerequisites is that the counselor must be female. I just can't bring myself to discuss these issues with a man.

Personally I don't see a difference. What I'm mainly looking at is their personality. I don't care if women tend to act this way or men tend to act that way. How does this specific person act? I'm not talking to men or women, I'm talking to an individual.

Yeah, I'm probably getting WAY ahead of myself here. Thank you everybody for your support, comments, and advice. I'm still working through this so everyone's input is still welcome. (Like it would ever NOT be. :) )

[CaptLex]

All of my best work has come when I've gotten just a little uncomfortable talking about something but trusted the therapist enough to keep going.
Same here, Shari Ann. Times like that I will sit home hours later and re-hash the whole session until I get some clarity on the subject and then I can relax. Meanwhile, at the session I was tense because new (and sometimes uncomfortable) things were introduced. I'm glad you're comfortable with your therapist. I clicked with mine right away too, but it took a few sessions before I felt totally comfortable and able to open up completely - makes a big difference.

The whole process is confusing sometimes, but definitely worth the trip. I hope you find the answers you're looking for. Please keep us posted.

[Kimberly]

I know how I feel. And isn't gender largely your own idea of how you fit into your society? So am I wrong to feel that my gender is "other" ("both" feels too much like it belongs in the either/or camp)? Knowing why my gender shifts doesn't negate the fact that I feel it shift, does it?
That has been a conclusion formulated by myself from many hours musing on the bus.

The hypothesis that gender is an expression of a set of values or skills, as you call them, that align with a certain sex. How you see yourself in relation to the skill/sex balance rings true with this hypothesis and your situation... As you are TG, or you feel androgynous, and you recognise that the skills you have are present in either typical sexes' "toolbox".

This is such a crap way of explaining this, but hopefully you get the jist.

I'm just waiting for one of our more experienced sisters to go "well duh," at me, then I can go and sink into an insignificant hole in the ground, amongst the infinite complexity of the human race, the killing, loving and caring.



... I must wash up...