Need gentle advice regarding my offspring

[Emma_Forbes]

Hi Girls,

Please don't jump all over me for this. It's a genuine question and if I didn't care I wouldn't be asking. I don't need any grief - I am aware there are dangers - but I am interested in balanced views from all of you (or even unbalanced ones - so yes Karren you can reply too!).

I dress 12/7 (i.e., as much as I can excluding work) except when my kids are with me (they are 18, 15 and 12 - all boys). Even though they know about Emma (I didn't tell them - my ex did) and don't have a problem with it I have a rule which says that, out of respect for them, I don't dress when they are here and all of Emma is out of sight.

Last weekend the youngest came on his own and started to ask questions about Emma. His view - 'they're only clothes'. He asked many, many questions about Emma and what she wears. He wanted to see her wigs and then her clothes and then photographs. He was fascinated (and couldn't believe it was me!) He says he is more than happy for me to dress while he is here if I want.

The middle one then arrived late Saturday and it went very much the same way. He also saw pictures and asked lots of questions.

With neither of them did I bring up the subject.

So what do I do now? Should I dress when the youngest one is here? What are the issues with this? Could I be accused of corrupting a minor? BTW my relationship with their mother is non-existent so, no, I can't check it with her first (nor would I want to). Part of me says "Don't do it". Part of me says "Why not?" Am I making more of any issue of it than it is for any of my kids?

I am undecided what to do and would like opinions so that I can make an appropriate judgement.

I would like to say at this point that I think their attitude is marvellous and I am immensely proud of them.

Em

[Julie York]

All credit to your kids. But the lynch pin is....why would you want to dress in front of them (given that they are quite young) and what do you hope it will gain for you and them?

Are you wanting to do it for you or them?

I think it would be admirable if your kids accepted that side of you but only when they are mature adults, because regardless of the facts, it just 'looks' wrong and could be misinterpretted.

If they do genuinely accept that side of you then it would be wise to make it a sort of "rights of passage" that they only see the 'other' you when they are 18.

[kali GG]

hope you don't mind some input from a GG, but i don't think a 12 year-old knows what he can and can't handle. i know i didn't. i remember trying to be cool with some things that i got exposed to, that really should have stayed my parents' business, even though i insisted i was ok with it at the time. now i look back and say, "what were they thinking? why didn't they act like parents?" and as i move toward 40, the therapy bills are still rolling in.

i can see why you are proud of your son but he's still a boy. he loves you and wants to be supportive, but he is still a child. the other boy is older but still not grown...

seeing my husband dressed blew my mind and i'm a grown woman. don't put a kid in that position.

just my .02, not judgmental, very sincere.

kali gg

[Raychel]

In my opinion, (for what it is worth) I think that it is just great that your kids still think of you as the same person, and it is just clothes. I also think that you should maintain the same relationship that they have known right along. Just be a guy when they are around. But it is good that they know and have seen pictures of you dressed. That way if they should happen to show up at your house when you are dressed it will not be as much of a shock.

I would also keep the dressing under covers when they are around so the word does not get back to thier mother. It sounds like the relationship between the two of you is not all the great. And I would bet that if she were to find out that you were dressing sround the kids that there would be trouble. :2c:

[Jessica Brekke]

I also think it would be wise to hold off that decision for now. Perhaps they're just clothes to an average tweve year old boy, but he can't have the emotional maturity to realize that they're much more than that to you.

It might not damage him, and it might not damage your relationship with him, and he might not be reject you as a viable father figure afterwards... but then again, he might.

This is one of those decisions that you can't ever undo. If I were in your position (and, I have two boys, I very well may, someday) I make absolutely certain he's secure enough in his own manhood before exposing him to something like that.

[Maureen Henley]

You don't mention in your post about the oldest son. What are his feelings? If it is unanimous, I would sit down with all of them and talk it over carefully. I would certainly bring up the issue of loss of visitation if your ex decides to become vindictive. Explain that many people would brand you an unfit father and deny your visitation, believing that you will corrupt or abuse your sons, or even worse, "turn them into crossdressers". Asking them to keep it a secret won't work, because one of them will probably slip, deliberately blurt it out in anger sometime. All in all, I think answering their question honestly is about the furthest you should go while they're minors. As julie York said, perhaps you could make it a rite of passage, for them to see, and perhaps dine with you en femme when they turn 18.

[Shelly Preston]

I would say don't dress in front of them.

Maybe in time it will be acceptable to let them see you but not now.
The kids are very curious and and impressionable.
Yes by all means answer any questions they may have
They do not need anything extra which may cause confusion in there lives by seeing you
I would be extra careful if you dont get on well with their mother
they could have told her about seeing the clothes.

Explain you wont tell them lies as it will make things worse long term

Best Wishes :hugs:

[Billie Renee]

Emma,I have to agree with the others on this and you should be open with your kids but not to open to dress in front of them till they are older and can understand it more. I think it would be good for you to be able to talk with them and answer any of their qestions they may have regarding Emma, and let them know while you do enjoy dressing it is for their bennifit that you don't dress in front of them till they ar older. I have children that are of adult age and they still have some problems with my dressing,but my daughter thinks it is fun to have two wardrobes to choose from she is always borrowing my clothes.So take it with a grain of salt and do the right thing by your kids but still be open with them.

[sandra-leigh]

Should I dress when the youngest one is here? What are the issues with this? Could I be accused of corrupting a minor?

I don't know the answer, really, and I've never had children so my 0.02 is suspect.

When I read your message, and the responses, my thought was that is not necessary to be quite as sheltered as the other posters are suggesting.

I am reminded, in particular, of issues that arise with respect to nudism and nudist camps. Would you take your children to a nudist camp with adults around? Wouldn't that be corrupting them? The answers that serious nudists have arrived at is that it is not harmful to the children, that they often take to nudism quite readily, and come out the experience better than average because they don't end up hung up on body image, nor hung up on the notion that the sight of the unclothed members of the other sex is is a deep dark secret, something to feel guilty about or to act badly about.

Hence, I'm not certain that it would be too harmful for your children to see you dressed, and that it might be helpful to them in some regards. But strange are the ways of the mind :)

[BeckyCath]

Emma, you've got to do what you feel is right, and to be honest only you know the dynamics of your family.

As for me, well, I'm full time now, and my 2 boys are 8 and 5, and they found out about me when they were 4 and 7. They really don't have a problem with me living as a woman, and they understand that i have a medical condition and the only way that i will get better is to live as a woman.

I'm not one for this "secret squirel" stuff, as it doesn't do anyone any good, what does it say to children that it's OK for an adult to tell lies and cover things up? It also doesn't do oneself any good, as the stress of keeping something hidden is pernicious, and raises stress levels.

My kids, and their friends have coped very well with my transition. My nest door neighbour's little boy is 6, and he asked his mum about me, and Julie just told him that I prefered to be a lady, and living as a man was making me ill, apparently he thought it through and then said "As long as she gets better then it's OK"

Ask yourself, who are you protecting by keeping it "secret"?

Rebecca

[Stephanie Miller]

Emma,
Julie took the words right out of my mouth.
I say unless you are truley going to transition - then no. Wait until they're 18.
They now know, and they may have more questions, it's natural. So answer them but don't go overboard. When we all started dressing more than just a little - almost all of us went overboard before finding our niche'. Now is not the time to do it with the kids. Heck, when they ask you about the birds and the bee's you going to pull out "Debbie does Dallas":confused2: ? Just kidding, but you get the point.

[Calliope]

Emma,

I dress 24/7 and have two girls - ages 2 and 7. My sense is I came out to the oldest in the nick of time. I believe the onset of puberty - the age many CDs begin their experiments - is a dangerous time to receive jolting sexual and gender info. They are boys, so that's trickier. One view could be: 'I love women and their stuff' (as that great article put it) so there's an extra validation of femininity; accepting this one must conclude, with boys, there's a negation of masculinity - which might haunt the 12-year-old. I suspect your older kids are ready; I think your youngest is not. Wait a few years; if he ever becomes a CD and your wife finds out you came out to him when he was 12, she'll never let you hear the end of it.

[paulaN]

I think you should just be their dad. I like the idea about the right of passage at 18.

[Tamara Croft]

I would have to say no. Kids have a lot to deal with at that age as it is, nevermind dealing with dad dressed as a woman. He is curious, all kids at that age are, that doesn't mean he really wants to see it all the time either.

Having said that, kids these days do seem to be a lot more accepting about things, however, I still say no ;)

[tekla west]

wait, they grow up too fast as it is

[NighttimeGirl]

agree with mostly everyone on this, kids are great nowadays and much more open than when I was growing up, but they know now and its great they was inquisitive but just be thier dad,
maybe when they are older if they wanted to see you dressed then cross that bridge,
But for now concentrate on the issues in thier lifes, its great being young but sh**e because no one listens,
I say give them your heart forget about the clothes for now.
concentrate on them more now and it will be easier when they are older, a good bond and a shared past is very hard to break!

Good Luck :hugs:

:love:

[KateW]

The only advice I can really offer is to ask a question. How old where you when you 100% comfortable with the fact that you crossdress? I know that I certainly wasn't at 12.

Don't get me wrong - I think it's great that your son is accepting, but he probably has his own things to deal with as he becomes a teenager.

[Carroll]

thats a tough one. My 4yo and 7yo (girl and boy) both know about Carroll. My wife did not approve at first, but thinks it ok now. I outed to my kids at and early age, and they are both accepting. I am not disagreeing with everybody else here, I'm just giving you what I did.

[Joy Carter]

Nope Nope and Double Nope :thumbsdn:

[Barb Valentine]

I would have to say I don't think it's a good idea
At this point I think they're too young

[Emma_Forbes]

Thank you to all of you. Your opinions and views are very helpful. I'm now pretty certain that I won't dress in front of them for many of the reasons given.

Two points to make. First, just to clarify, if I had dressed it would have been a one-off, certainly not all the time. Mind you that may have changed over time. However, it is not an issue any more.

Secondly, the rite of passage is an interesting one. One of the problems the 12 year old has is that he is always feeling excluded because he is the youngest. His brothers always seem to do everything first. Maybe this situation is one where he is subconsciously trying to beat his brothers. That is sufficient reason to delay it.

I think I would take the view that I would come out to all three of them at the same time when they are all old enough. That way the emphasis is on when I am ready (and the time is right) rather than their specific age.

Once again thanks for all the advice.

Em

[Jasmine Ellis]

They have seen you by pictures only. let it be. Just say to them if they want to see you dressed ask you again when they are 18. then you'll be happy to do so.
But I think they are to young at the moment.

[BeckyCath]

Can i ask if you all think that no matter what the situation is, it's still wrong to be "out" to young children?

Because if that's the consensus of opinion, then, please, can you all explain why i am wrong, and what a TS woman is supposed to do?

Are you advocating that all TS women leave home straight away and don't expose their children to the "traumas" of changing gender?

If you're going to go down that route, what about those of us who have managed to remain "married" and live, in society's eyes, a lesbian relationship?

I'm just looking for some answers, because, to me, all this advice is based around having no self acceptance of cross dressing.

What would you all say when i get married as a woman, and my husband becomes my children's step father?

Just where and when is the acceptance going to come from? How is society going to move on and give the trans community the acceptance that we all seem to profess to want? The only way being a CD/TV (DVD) TS, gender variant is going to become acceptable is by the community accepting itself and moving away from all this behind closed doors and shameful hiding.

There is nothing to be ashamed of by being gender variant. Do any of you realise that there are well over 90 different types of intersex condition?
We are not perverts, we are not mentally ill, we are human, and should be glad that difference abounds.

Just my thoughts and opinions

Rebecca

[Tamara Croft]

Can i ask if you all think that no matter what the situation is, it's still wrong to be "out" to young children?

Because if that's the consensus of opinion, then, please, can you all explain why i am wrong, and what a TS woman is supposed to do? I think the answer to these questions depends on whether Emma is a TS and taking things further or just a crossdresser. If she is indeed a TS and will be taking things further, then my answer would have been totally different. But, if Emma is only a crossdresser, then my answer stays the same.

Being a TS is totally different, Becky you are changing, you are becoming a woman, we don't know this about Emma to be honest do we. Perhaps Emma you could enlighten us on how far you are actually going to take this. Are you just a CD or are you infact a TS?

[Emma_Forbes]

Tamara,

To answer your question, I am a CD. I have no intention of transitioning as I do not feel I am in the wrong body. Incidentally, my first recollection of transgenderism (and I use the term in its most general sense) is from the age of about 8 praying when I went to bed at night that I would wake up in the morning a little girl instead of a little boy. However, now I am grown up, I don't pray that way - in fact I don't pray but even if I did that wouldn't be my prayer!

I have no desire to change sex or have operations to that end. The only thing I might consider is permanent hair removal because the temporary methods are all such a pain! Anyway I digress......

I think the views expressed in this post are well balanced and certainly have helped to clarify my situation. Now carrying it through is the difficult part....

Thanks

Em

[Melinda G]

Don't ever dress in front of your kids!
I can't understand why so many of you feel the need to "come out" to your wives, kids, or others. Just enjoy it for what it is, and keep it your little secret. Nine times out of ten, it isn't going to go the way you want it to.

[DonnaT]

I've a different opinion than most, not that I want to change Emma's mind.

In another forum, we allow kids at 13 yrs and up. There's only a few, so their opinions only mean a lot to their parents.

However, none have a problem with it, and some have even witnessed it and don't have a problem dealing with it.

One had a problem because she discovered her dad dressed, but has gotten passed it and now accepts it.

Kids are pretty cool when they know they are being treated with respect, like an adult, and not being lied to.

Emma's boys have seen pictures, the clothes the wig, etc., and sound like they could handle seeing Emma. Of course Emma knows them best.

I've found that since telling my son and him seeing me, I'm quite at ease when dressed. No longer worrried about being caught, listening for the door, and running to hide and/or change. He's not had any problem with it, but he was 27 when I told him, yet he said he knew before my opening up.

[Shelly Preston]

Don't ever dress in front of your kids!
I can't understand why so many of you feel the need to "come out" to your wives, kids, or others. Just enjoy it for what it is, and keep it your little secret. Nine times out of ten, it isn't going to go the way you want it to.

Why come out ????
the kids i agree it should be kept secret from unless they or find out by some other means

As for a Wife or SO the reasons would be
Deceit, betrayal, honesty, trust.
Not the right couse of action for everyone but just the reasons.

[Jessica Brekke]

If she is indeed a TS and will be taking things further, then my answer would have been totally different. But, if Emma is only a crossdresser, then my answer stays the same.

BeckyCath, I think this is exactly right. As a TS, you are dressed as a woman full time with the intent on becoming one, then you simply have no choice. You have to come out to your children, or else never see them again. Given that situation, you've done the right thing, and opted to stay in their lives.

However -- and I'm sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings -- that is a sub-optimal solution. Like it or not, our transgenderism causes tremendous stress on those closest to us. It is a rare and fortunate TG who has had no relationship damaged through the process of coming out.

Add to the fact that as parents, I'm supposed to protect my children until such time as they can protect themselves, and, personally, I can come to no other conclusion than, unless I have to expose them to my CDing, I shouldn't. Period.

So what if they don't know this facet of me? I also don't intend to tell them about my sexual history, or my rampant pot use back in college. Some things are simply not their business, and so far as I can see, telling them does nothing to advance their welfare. And to me, that's the bottom line.

[Sarah Rabbit]

BTW my relationship with their mother is non-existent so, no, I can't check it with her first (nor would I want to).
Em

I am of the Suspicious Type. both the youngest and middle has brought up this subject together but at different times. Is there a possibility of you being Set Up for a Court Case. I feel Alarm Bells Ringing

Sarah R. :bunny:

[sandra-leigh]

Can i ask if you all think that no matter what the situation is, it's still wrong to be "out" to young children?

I think those are very good questions, Rebecca.

I've spoken with some crossdressers who have come out to their minor daughters; in the limited sample, not one of them had a problem. But of course a daughter is not a son.

I'm not sure at the moment what the theory is for keeping it until 18. Do gay parents keep important parts of themselves out of their homes until their children are 18? Why do we have books such as "Heather has Two Mommies" (part of the reading material in some Canadian schools!) if we have the theory that children are so easily confused and corrupted? Do we start sex ed at 18 or much younger?

Those of you who started dressing very young: if one of your children were to start dressing as a minor, would you yourself refuse to dress in the home in order to not "confuse" them or to "protect" them from therapy when older? Did your parents not cross-dressing protect you from therapy, or would it have been easier for you if there had been an example around that demonstrated acceptance? Would you dress in the home to show them that it's OK to be what you are?

Is 13 too young for something "serious"? At 13 I took over as "the man of the house". It wasn't the easiest of lives, but it was clear that my mother and sister needed me, and that they loved me. The hard part of my teenage years wasn't my family life: the hard part had to do with socialization with my peers (e.g., at school). Where was the obvious love? At home. Where was the social indifference (or worse)? At school and the playground.

"Treat your children well" does not mean hiding things from them because you don't think they would understand -- not by that age, anyhow.

[vbcdgrl]

I would not expose my kids( I have 2 grown children)to Vikki on purpose. I think it's great that your kids know about Emma, and seem to be accepting. But, I would not flaunt her existence by dressing in front of them, etc. That's my opinion.

Vikki

[cute_michelle_cd]

These are just MY thoughts.....I don't think age has anything to do with it. I wouldn't dress or not dress because your kids asked or not. The first step is to be honest and open. with respect to age. If you dress around them is a choice you need to make with resect to what is going on in your life and your kids life. also what kind of repercushion you will get from your ex. you dont need to have her cause you any problems with your sons. They started to ask questions and that is good. you don't need to hide anything from them now but you don't need to rush out and dress right away either. take it slow and make sure what ever you do, you do it because you thought it out. not because you went with just your emotions. Good luck and it seem you and your sons have a good and open relationship. that is what is realy important.

michelle

[BeckyCath]

BeckyCath... As a TS, you are dressed as a woman full time with the intent on becoming one, then you simply have no choice. You have to come out to your children, or else never see them again. Given that situation, you've done the right thing, and opted to stay in their lives.

Thanks Julie, I've always felt it better for them to have 2 loving and involved parents rather than thinking their dad abandoned them (like someone who is TS did)


However -- and I'm sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings -- that is a sub-optimal solution. Like it or not, our transgenderism causes tremendous stress on those closest to us. It is a rare and fortunate TG who has had no relationship damaged through the process of coming out.

In my case, it has caused huge difficulties. I worked for my brother and sister-in-law for getting on for 15 years, and within 4 months of going full time as a woman, i find myself unemployed because they can't cope with the fact that i am TS. I am fortunate however that my boys have seen me for who i am, and keep telling all and sundry that they prefer me as Becky as i am far happier as a woman, well not all and sundry, but enough people who knew me as him for it to matter.


Add to the fact that as parents, I'm supposed to protect my children until such time as they can protect themselves, and, personally, I can come to no other conclusion than, unless I have to expose them to my CDing, I shouldn't. Period.

So what if they don't know this facet of me? I also don't intend to tell them about my sexual history, or my rampant pot use back in college. Some things are simply not their business, and so far as I can see, telling them does nothing to advance their welfare. And to me, that's the bottom line.

It's a good thing you have had the choice, and if i was just a cross dresser, i wouldn't have exposed my kids to it either, but obviously, i couldn't have embarked on living my life without telling my children what is going on.

Rebecca

[JenniferMint]

My mother did not approve of me watching R-rated movies when I was 14.

I went and rented them anyway behind her back. *shrugs*

[Sophia Rearen]

Emma, As you were doing, answer their questions. I would add though, ask your children follow up questions and perhaps some questions of your own. For instance, how do you think you would react to seeing me dressed? How do you think you might feel? Would you feel uncomfortable being around me? Would you be embarassed by me? What do you want me to do? Most importantly respect them and their decisions.
How about while they are visiting, you dress as you wish behind closed doors. At bed time for example. Have them respect your privacy. I think they'll know what is going on. However, it is important to show them, the same respect for their privacy. A relationship built on trust, respect and honesty will go a long way.

[CarmenG]

kids are kids.... and everyone to this point have some interesting views. but the fact that you live in the UK may make some difference, i don't know never been there.... kids here in general are pretty cool. i would rather they hear it from me that from someone else. teach them what crossdressing is and god knows there is a ton of information on the subject. tell them where you fit in with every crossdresser in the world, ie; you straight, you gay, you bi, you die without dressing, you just do it for pleasure, you do it to become something you want to be or become and so on and so on.
RESPECT is the one common denominator that our children learn early in life. " if they ask the question, they deserve a truthful answer " but then again the ball is in your court and it's YOUR serve.....:hugs:

[renee99]

The fact that you are a CD means that you are going to naturally be more tolerant and open minded towards your kids. That is all that they need from you, tolerance and guidance. They do not need to know the details of your choices until they are older.

There is also a controversial undertone to the whole CD thing, is it a response conditioned from small childhood, or is it a teenage sexual association, or is it neither? Until we know, it is best not to open yourself up to accusations of passing on the "disease". That could put a marriage and/or reputation in jeopardy, my 2c.

If they are abjectly curious, show them a picture of you in a friendly and normal outdoors/going out setting and let that be the end of it. If it's something you only do in private, it's probably best to keep it under wraps for various reasons.

[Atomhype]

Hate to be the cynical one to bring this up, but how does the mother of your children feel about you dressing in front of them? You don't cite her attitute, but for legal reasons I wouldn't go further with your children until you have her permission. Last thing you want is her to try to limit your visitation rights because you dressed or "corrupted" them in some way. While not suggesting she is purposely encouraging your sons to get you to dress so that she can use it against you, she may try to punish you in some way if you expose them without addressing it with her first. Just bear in mind how a third party might see it, a judge or a teacher, someone without prior knowledge. Consider everything first.

[Dee 1062]

Tamara,

To answer your question, I am a CD. I have no intention of transitioning as I do not feel I am in the wrong body. Incidentally, my first recollection of transgenderism (and I use the term in its most general sense) is from the age of about 8 praying when I went to bed at night that I would wake up in the morning a little girl instead of a little boy. However, now I am grown up, I don't pray that way - in fact I don't pray but even if I did that wouldn't be my prayer!

I have no desire to change sex or have operations to that end. The only thing I might consider is permanent hair removal because the temporary methods are all such a pain! Anyway I digress......

I think the views expressed in this post are well balanced and certainly have helped to clarify my situation. Now carrying it through is the difficult part....

Thanks

EmMay be time you start praying again and this time instead for yourself, pray for children....for understanding and guideness...No don't dress in front of the Children unless you are changing your sex...The dressing is for you not them...enjoy yourself...but be a good father to your Children.SSome day when they grow up then maybe they will understand you but not as Children is the time, Now is their time....Be at peace and go with your Children.

[Kate Simmons]

I never dressed in front of my kids while they were growing up, Em. They needed their Dad after all. Now they are all grown and even though they all know about Ericka, I still don't dress overtly in front of them. I did warn them, however, if they happen to "cross over" into my time and space as Ericka, especially if they visit unannounced, they will be taking their chances of the possibility of running into Ericka. This did actually happen recently the other day with my Daughter but she didn't seem to feel it was a big deal. Ericka

[Emma_Forbes]

Hi

I would like to thank everyone sincerely for taking the time to respond to my questions. There are many different points of view and that comes across quite strongly.

I am still considering my options as, above all, I want to make the right decision.

Thank you all very much

Em

[suzy]

I am not an authority on anything. However I do have an opinion....

I think that you should continue the relationship that you have had all along. There is no need to change anything now. Dress when you can and not when you can't; leaving work and in the presence of your children as when you can't.

When the children are no longer children, you should revisit the issue if you so desire.:happy: