Passing (a little philosophical)

[Calliope]

...

[Tracy_Victoria]

Here's a dialectical musing.

Passing, for the most part, depends on a straight population unhip to the idea of crossdressing and transitioning. Nobody is expecting or looking for a MtF, thus it would be easier to pass - in the very places (conservative, isolated, uncool) where being read would carry the most shock and stigma.

Concurrently, all the lovely freaky places where dressing is absolutely permissible, the odds of passing are reduced - because everyone is checking out the action and fun.

Weird, eh?

Personally I think passing anywhere is down to your femininity out weighing your masculinity. ie the more female you can look, the more easier it is to be accepted in that role. ie if you have clearly a wig perched on top of your head, a heavy five o clock shadow and your clothes just don't fit the rack there on, you will get read every time.

However wearing smart well fitting clothes, make up to suit the place and time, and a wig that is well styled and doesn't shout wig and your already in with a fair chance of fooling everyone your in to a girl. to use one person on here as an example, Karren Hutton always looks the part, along with a very convincing, but as we all know it's a totally fake cleavage, yet she scores massive fem points in all of her photos, due to good clothes, makeup, wig, and that cleavage!

it the whole picture people see that makes Tgirls passable. The fact we wear wigs is nothing to do with passing (RG wear wigs too!) nor is it the clothes and the make up alone, it's the whole package, ie that first glance people see of us, ie in a second people see nice hair, well present, smart, and sensible outfit (cleavage add massive fem points as most people don't realise just how easy it is to fake) but have masculine points out wieghing your fem ones and you will get read all the time.

just my :2c:

[tekla west]

It is weird. But I think that the real deal is that in places where it is more or less OK, then it shifts to just being yourself rather than achieving some made up, mass media, consumption based standard of "what a women SHOULD look, SHOULD act like." Which we all know, is not the standard in real life at all.

I never have to pass here, I just try to get a positive presentation - nothing to shock or offend or make myself into a cheep caricature of a women.

Its so common, that in most areas of the city you never even get a second glance. Of course that is the law here too - what you present as is what you are. Damn liberals.

I'm not trying to fool anyone, I'm just being myself. That I'm accepted that way is due largely to that odd San Francisco notion that we live in a free society, that we have a right to pursue happiness, and that no matter what it is - as long as it is not hurting anyone else - its pretty much your misfortune and none of my own.

[JenniferMint]

That reminds me of when I was looking at photographs from my recent outing en femme. I thought that overall I looked like a slightly awkward girl.

Well if someone sees a slightly awkward girl, they're just going to assume that she's... a girl who's slightly awkward in some way! Most people wouldn't think that a slightly awkward girl is a crossdresser unless they know how to look for that.

I was considering sending one of those photographs (it shows 6 girls, though one of them is me) to some of my friends on the internet who think I'm a guy but don't know what I look at, and see if they can figure out which one's the crossdresser, but in that sort of situation I think I'd get spotted because none of the other 5 girls in the photograph has anything that looks out of place about them, while I do.

[CarmenG]

"when you're going to San Fransico, be sure to wear a flower in your hair",
i take it that still applies..." is it real or is it memorex "... San Fransico is the place to be, so i've heard over the years. never been there but seems Austin, Texas is running a close second. going there on halloween, just check it out. i believe if you feel you pass then you do, but the second you question yourself, YOU JUST BLEW IT. stay cool, enjoy the view, look in the mirror..... you'll love who you are ......:hugs:

[cindianna_jones]

Early on, after puberty, I had a very difficult time passing. Even after I got the image perfected with the right clothing for the time and place and the makeup just right, I still had problems. It all boiled down to having confidence in myself. Once I felt comfortable and confident in my presentation, even if it was not perfect, it was much easier to pass.

To get good practice, I dressed in men's clothes. The task was to pass female in men's clothes with no makeup. So, I would dress in jeans and a tee shirt and fix my hair by poofing it out some. I had an advantage in that my facial hair had been removed (I had started electrolosys and my face was cleared weekly) and my natural hair was already long

And it wasn't long, until I could pull it off. It does take work and careful analysis of each outing. But it can be done.

Cindi

[Stephanie Kay]

I find that most people are what I call "T*oblivious" and may look once but then don't care and don't look again. As far as safe environments to CD, I still steer clear of more politically conservative places, especially cowboy/redneck-type bars and conservative family spots. Places where CDing is regarded as a sin or freak of nature. If people in these kinds of places find out that you "passed" or "fooled them" they might get angry and take a swing!! I tend to want to avoid violence!! Be careful, honey!

[Sophia Rearen]

Here's a dialectical musing.

Passing, for the most part, depends on a straight population unhip to the idea of crossdressing and transitioning. Nobody is expecting or looking for a MtF, thus it would be easier to pass - in the very places (conservative, isolated, uncool) where being read would carry the most shock and stigma.

Concurrently, all the lovely freaky places where dressing is absolutely permissible, the odds of passing are reduced - because everyone is checking out the action and fun.

Like two different cultures (based on regional characteristics). Weird.

I agree. Case in point. My biggest CD claim to fame is walking into a private party in a restaraunts bar. The party was a fund raiser for a conservative Republican U.S. Congressman. Of the 100 or so people at this party, only 2-3 middle aged women read me.

[Maria2004]

I agree. Case in point. My biggest CD claim to fame is walking into a private party in a restaraunts bar. The party was a fund raiser for a conservative Republican U.S. Congressman. Of the 100 or so people at this party, only 2-3 middle aged women read me.


A logical perception, bolstered by some anecdotal eviedence.

[JenniferMint]

I agree. Case in point. My biggest CD claim to fame is walking into a private party in a restaraunts bar. The party was a fund raiser for a conservative Republican U.S. Congressman. Of the 100 or so people at this party, only 2-3 middle aged women read me.

How do you tell whether someone read you?

What if someone read you but didn't say anything?

[Jodi]

As has been said, it is a matter of style, mannerisms, deportment, and confidence. On my vacation, reported on the pic section of the board, my friend Laura and I spent 4 days among the general population. We dined in restaurants, sat at wineries in the evening, and just strolled the streets like a couple of gg's. At no time did we note any strange looks or reactions. We spent two evenings sitting outdoors at wineries. Both places were crowded. We sat at a table with other gg's both nights. The first evening, the gg next to me just insisted on conversing all evening. So, I sat there listened to her and carried on the conversation back. She gave no clue that anything was different. On these occasions, I was wearing shorts, t-shirt and sandals. I had worked to perfect a very light makeup, and by that time of the evening, my hair was a mess, as was the hair of every gg there. Dress to fit in, and act the part.

Jodi

[Sophia Rearen]

How do you tell whether someone read you?

What if someone read you but didn't say anything?

It's really simple, actually. You just know. I purposely scanned the crowd as I waited for the bartender on two separate trips to the bar. On the second, as I waited, I noted my fushia bra strap was peeking out from my LBD. As I fixed it, I noticed two women standing right next to me checking me out. Figuring I was read, I said to them in my deep male voice, "how you doin'?" They quickly turned away. LOL. Or perhaps, they were pissed that I looked better than them. Either way it was funny.
So, given the intimate atmosphere and the attendees, I think if I had been widely read, I would have been ushered out of there. Not because I was a CD, but, because I was not a contributer to the BS.
Here is a picture from that night in the restaraunt.

[tekla west]

Well thank god you were only crossdressing and not contributing to conservative republicans. Some things are just too digusting to imagine, though living through it has been no picnic either.

[windycissy]

Very astute observation....I pass with relative ease in Chicago because I stick to Michigan Avenue and the loop and dress conservatively....some nice things about Chicago: it is a large city and everybody is preoccupied with their own affairs, so a single girl sort of gets lost in the crowd, and your typical Chicago woman is more zaftig than, say, girls in SoCal or Florida - the City of Broad Shoulders applies to girls too, and some of them make me look downright petite! The last time I got read was in San Francisco....

[Jesse69]

Hey Windy if I saw you in Chicago you wouldn't pass me!

I think I should try going shopping in full drag to see if I can pass. I really wonder if my voice would give me away, but I think the rest of me looks good.

[tekla west]

In SF playing "spot the tranny" is pretty much our pastime besides the Giants and Peace Marches. Its hard to pass here because so many people are in-tune to it. No one will hassle you for the most part, but its hard to fool a city full of trannies and people with Gay-dar.

Which, of course, goes to prove Day Trippers original point I belive.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i have to disagree a little and agree alot on this thread..

i think we "get read" alot more than we think, but you have to think differently about "passing" ..if i am addressed as miss or maam, treated well, smiled at, ignored, etc...i am "Passing"....

someone saying OH MY GOD ITS A GUY!!!! or staring at you with their mouth hanging open is not passing AND its "getting read"...its also no fun...but i've been out alot and it doesnt happen often

but people passing buy, looking, shopping, ignoring you, may be thinking ...gosh thats a guy, or hmmm is that a guy?? but they really dont care..thats passing to me...even if they think "maybe" its a guy, or maybe think "look its a transsexual woman"(i've often thought of passing in these terms..i would be quite flattered if i could consistently do that)..

and i think sophia has a point, many of us tend to dress up a little more than the average girl and work on our looks and i bet women that are confident check out our outfits and makeup shoes etc..

i have had 2 experiences where in male mode, i saw a crossdresser (we all have the "tranny-dar" i think)....both times i pointed out to people i was with and both times nobody cared, one tgirl was at a christmas pageant with kids and everything and she was 6'4 and very large and i must say not looking her
best....everybody knew, nobody said anything...i thought that was very interesting...so she "passed" but i guarantee she was read

and dont get me wrong..its all good..i think confidence and style, your mannerisms, and your commitment to feeling like a girl and presenting as one will get you passed most of the time even if you are read... so ITS ALL GOOD!!!


:2c:

[Charleen]

Lordy, I don't even try to pass for 2 reasons- A ton of make up wouldn't hide my "kisser":eek: , and I live in the state of Florida and rural Florida at that! I do go out en femme, but I look more like a very efemminate guy than an ugly GG. Long hair, done nails, pierced ears, jewelry, all femme clothes but jeans, subtle blouse, sneakers, just like just about every GG out there during the day. At nite? HA! I got the choice of the Hide away bar and Grill or the CowCatcher Lounge! Yippee Yi O Kyay!:D Love and xxx, Lily

[ToyGirl]

i would be at the other end of the spectrum , living in a small town under 10,000 pop in country asutralia , a town were everyone knows everything. Made even worse by the fact i grew up here and have transitioned here.

Half my problem in the first place was having difficulty passing growing up as a boy, no matter what i did people would generally assume i was female until i spoke. Though when i finally did transition i found out passing most the time is a long way from passing all the time. My only give away sign is a visible adams apple something that will involve surgery to fix, even so i have to agree with that a person subconsciously checks certain things and even if you fail at one or two things there mind can tell them your female , were as in san fransisco , people might be more picky about the adams apple , but as a general package people might question what is likely , a boy to look like a girl or a girl to have an adams apple , both are possible and not worth making a scene over.

few years ago before i transitioned i was in the supermarket with my best friend , he was getting married soon and bumped into one of his mothers friends. Who congratulated him and asked if i was the lovely fioncee, wich caused him to 'defend' me by saying HE IS A GUY and pointing at me. To pass and get outed in 5 seconds.. God i hated that day :(

[Kate Simmons]

I know what you are saying Day. What does it mean if we don't "pass" however? Do we "Fail"? Depends on your perspective which seems to me to be the important thing. From what I've seen here, most of us "pass" with flying colors whether other people are accepting or not. It's how we feel about ourselves that is important. Ericka

[Jasmine Ellis]

Yes there is a lot of girls in here who would pass with flying colours got Every thing right down to a T

[Calliope]

It's how we feel about ourselves that is important.

Always and forever.

[bgirl]

Sometimes I wish I could pass. But in the end it doesn't really matter to me. What I feel on the inside doesn't always require clothes. I am aiming for feeling like myself no matter what I wear. Will I ever be confident enough to not care if I pass and just be myself in public? Thats another question is it not?
I see a vacation to San Fransisco........

[souperman]

I,ve been dressing since I was 12 and I find that I passing is not a concern anymore because I,m comfortable with myself and confident. I dress for the occaision and try to be as femme as possible. I would never go out with my makeup done looking, smelling and feeling like a girl. The more time I spend as Samantha the eaier it gets. I have spent 5 full days dressed on a trip to Vegas and I being that my hair is long I can be Sam so much easier.