The long and winding road to acceptance?

[Dragster]

Hello Friends. I seem to be on a long and winding road to acceptance. I don’t know what direction I am headed or how fast I’m going; I haven’t got a map and I’ve no idea what my destination is or when I will arrive, if I arrive anywhere at all! Confused? You’re not alone; so am I!
Enough of talking in riddles. To recap my story to date (some of you will have read this in my earlier posts), I’m 62 and started CDing at about 10. I married the best girl in the world at 25, and didn’t tell her because I thought “sex on tap” would cure my need. Wrong! Almost 20 years ago, I ‘fessed up, but didn’t make a good job of it; I didn’t know as much as I do now. After much heartache and many tears, she finally said she “didn’t want to know”, so I remained in the closet until I joined this forum 18 months ago, but I think she thought I’d stopped. After listening to good advice from the great people here (mainly the GGs, god bless them), I decided to bring the subject into the open again, and stop living a lie. I’d been lucky not to get caught for all that time, and thought the potential shock of discovery posed a greater threat to my marriage than a controlled disclosure. Again following advice, I bought a copy of “My Husband Betty”, read it myself, marking the places which I identified with, and asked my wife to read the first 4 chapters before we had a discussion. I didn’t push it too hard in case I turned her off completely, but it was over 6 months later that we had the discussion, and she’d stioll only read 30 or 40 pages!
I started by telling her that whatever the outcome, I’d always love her and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. (I meant it too, so if anyone wants to recommend that I walk away and find a more accepting partner, forget it!). I also ensured she knew I wanted a much more active sex life with her. We’d had none for months, since she’d said she could not bring herself to make love to someone who wanted to wear women’s clothes! During the discussion, which spread over several weeks, She re-iterated that the whole idea of me wanting to dress in women’s clothes (ANY clothes from panties to the whole 9 yards) made her feel sick and there was no way she’d ever be able to change how she felt. She thought she married a 100% man, and that’s what she still wants, and “I can’t be a 100% man if I wear women’s clothes”. No amount of telling her that I’m not gay, don’t want sex with anyone else but her, don’t want a sex change and only want to dress from time to time (it’s all true) makes any difference. I’m not one who feels like a woman trapped in a man’s body; under the clothes I’m still the same guy I am in drab, but she can’t see that. I’ve pointed out that none of us are all male or all female, we’re all a mixture of characteristics. I love foreplay before and cuddles afterwards, help out in the home, she gets more kisses from me than I get from her, and she admits that outwardly, I seem 100% male, and maybe a little macho at times. I asked if she wanted me to stop showing this feminine side of me (of course she doesn’t), but she says many men behave like this. I agreed that many men are not afraid of showing their feminine side today, even David Beckham! And that what is seen as masculine and feminine is only what the society we live in accepts at this point in time. But she can’t accept this.
Well, we have re-kindled our sex life, but it’s still very patchy. She knows I’d like to be much more adventurous in bed (yes, even at my age!), but doesn’t share my enthusiasm. Every other aspect of our life together is getting better all the time, especially since we both retired and have the time and money to pursue our other goals, but on CDing, we are still poles apart. I, myself, don’t want anyone else I know to find out about my “interest”, but she has even said she’d be so embarrassed that she would have to move 100 miles away if anyone did find out. She doesn’t want me to use mail order in case a package breaks and the postman sees the contents, or if one gets accidentally delivered to a neighbour! She’s that paranoid about it! She doesn’t know how I will not die of embarrassment if I go into a fetish shoe shop (even 50 miles away) to try on some high heels!
Her solution is for me to just stop. “If alcoholics and smokers can stop, then so can you”. Even if it were possible (does anyone know how and has anyone succeeded yet?), I see that as a lose-lose situation. I know I will still want to CD, and the feeling will probably continue growing until I re-start in secret, putting our relationship at risk if I’d promised not to. She will always know that I still want to CD, and that will always interfere with our relationship. It may seem a selfish attitude, but I told her that I see no alternative to tackling the root cause of her revulsion. She won’t consider therapy or counselling (together or separate), because she says she couldn’t discuss it with any other person (I’d thought of contacting the Beaumont Society. Has anyone in the UK any experience of how useful this may be for me, or WOBS for my wife?). Similarly, she won’t join this forum and hide behind the anonymity of the ‘net to discuss this issue with others who have been through the same experience. She thinks my time on this forum is only fuelling my desire, and wants me to stop that too. I’ve offered to provide her with material to read, but “I know what’s in there, and it won’t change my mind”. She says she did eventually read the first four chapters of “My Husband Betty”, but I doubt it. She’d have known that there wasn’t a simple cure! Helen Boyd made that very clear. But then I don’t think she wants to believe that either!
I’d read of a suggestion here that it may be possible to overcome her revulsion by getting her to agree to seeing me in one female item for a few weeks, say panties. She may think I look ridiculous at first, but eventually realise I’m still me inside the clothes, and get used to seeing me in them. Then add a second item, maybe a bra, stockings or heels for another few weeks, taking things at her pace until she became more used to it. I suggested that, but she doesn’t ever want to see me in a single piece of female clothing. I can accept (reluctantly) that she may never want to see me dressed, fully or partly, but I’ve told her that this thing is an integral part of me, and has been for much longer than I’ve known her. I have many needs to remain happy in my life, and satisfying the CD need is one of them. At the very least, I told her I need her to recognise that, and to willingly give me the space and time to satisfy that need, with (preferably) or without her direct involvement. She also has needs, to feel loved, appreciated and looked after physically, emotionally and sexually by me, her husband. And although I fully accept that it is my duty to satisfy her needs, I thoroughly enjoy doing so too, but if I continue CDing, then she will be unhappy, and I’ve failed her, and if I stop (always assuming I can!) I’m the one who will be deeply unhappy, and knowing that deep down, I’ll still be yearning to continue, will probably not make her happy either.
My ultimate CD goal, that I want to achieve before I get too old, is to get good enough to go out en-femme (without getting recognised!), shopping or for a meal etc., but I wonder if I really have the courage. I’d dress to blend in for that and would love to go with my wife, but at home, I go for the really sexy look with lingerie, and I’d really enjoy making love to my wife from time to time, with both of us dressed. I really wonder if both of these will remain pipe dreams for me.

I’m sorry I’ve rabbitted on for so long, but it’s helped me to get it off my chest. Fortunately we’re still talking, and for now, rationally too. But I’ve run out of ideas to try and take us forwards. Maybe many of you have been here before, and if you did find a way of finding a compromise which satisfied both of you, I’d really appreciate any suggestions you may have, particularly from GGs who’ve experienced what my wife is going through.

All the best,
Tony

[cindianna_jones]

Wow.... hard stuff isn't it? It's hard for me to give advice.... once my ex found out, she considered the marraige over pretty much. And that opened the road for me to continue to GRS. But at the time I was discovered, I thought that I was just a CD.

But you are being up front with her. And believe me, she is accepting quite a mouthful all at once. Just think at how many years it took you to accept yourself. Give her some time, be upfront, and always tell her you love her.
Love truly does conquer all.

Of course, my opinion is freee and worth every penny. :2c:

Cindi

[Calliope]

As much as it grieves me to say it, based upon your information, acceptance on the part of your mate seems unlikely. It looks like your choice is dressing in secret or ending the relationship. This dim view presumes her statements, recounted by you, represent her core feelings and she is not prone to hyperbole. I feel for you, you are in the squish for sure.

[tekla west]

Bob Dylan sings "somethings in life it just gets too late to learn" and I too doubt that your wife will change. I think we become more and more of who we are as we get older, and given that, I don't see a reversal on her part.

Has anybody ever stopped, sure. I think it depends on the why, on the initial motivation. If its just about sex (though there is nothing "just" about sex) it could be shifted into other areas. If its a deeper gender deal, a real part of you, I think that would be harder.

And where I'm sure that many of the girls in here look 1000% different when dressed, I'm sure no matter what I do I still look like me. So while you might never fool anyone, there is a lot of leeway - as many of the stories in here attest - to what you can do, where you can go, and what you can do.

Other than that it might be something that is for you and your wife to share. Though it would not be my advice for anyone, you've gone down a long road, together and it looks like that might be the best way.

[Sophia Rearen]

Wow, Toni, you certainly are letting it all out. My feelings, based upon your words are, you have reached the end of your road to acceptance. Your wife knows, does anyone else? Have you said, "I'm a crossdresser", to anyone besides us? If so, I believe, you have reached self acceptance. So, the question then becomes, what are you going to do about it? Based upon this writing and past posts about your wife, I'd say it's quite unlikely that your wife will come around to accepting who you are. At this point, it's her problem, not yours. Your wife is ignorant. Her not wanting to read the information you have provided suggests that she is unwilling to learn more about the person she married many years ago. That's sad. I feel sorry for her.
Sadly, I don't see any lingerie nights in your future with your wife. At this point in your life, I say take the bull by the horns and live the way you want to live. Chances are, she'll stick around. If not, what have you lost?
Warm regards,

[Marla GG]

Hi Tony,

Another wonderfully written, insightful, and moving post from you. I know from our past. lengthy PM exchanges how much you love your wife and are committed to finding a solution that is acceptable to both of you. That is hard work, and work that a lot of CDs aren't willing to take on -- it's so much easier to hide things and go behind your spouse's back, but you aren't willing to do that. If only your wife would realise how special you are in that regard.

So let me get this straight: she says no counseling, no talking and getting support from other wives and SOs, no gradually getting used to seeing you in one or two "less threatening" femme items, no private time and space for you to dress, and no tolerance for you buying clothes and so on, even online or at a shop 50 miles away. I know that you love each other and that abandoning your marriage is not an option either. That doesn't leave you many choices, does it? It is hard to move forward toward a compromise, when the other person isn't willing to budge.

As I see it, the root cause of the problem is that she believes you can stop (and learn to be happy as an ex-crossdresser). You and everyone on this board knows that is not an option. Yes, the desire may come and go, but it can't be shut off at will like a tap. You are right, it is a part of you, and it is unlikely to ever go away for good. Your wife's belief that going online and visiting forums like this one is somehow fuelling your desire, shows that she thinks the urge to crossdress can be controlled or managed, like an addiction. Until she accepts that this is NOT the case, she won't feel any need to compromise. She can just stay in denial and keep insisting that you stop.

Sadly, you might be right that your wife will never want to see you dressed or spend time with you en femme. Some women just can't handle that, and to be honest, they shouldn't be forced to. But I feel that as your wife and companion, she should care enough about your happiness and well-being to at least let you have the time and freedom you need to shop and dress and visit online forums, without her involvement. I know from all you have said that she is good woman, and that your marriage is otherwise strong, so the only explanation for her attitude that makes sense to me is that she just doesn't (and doesn't want to) understand how important this is to your happiness, and how impossible it is for you to stop.

In summary: she is in denial, and until she stops clinging to the notion that you can give up crossdressing, progress doesn't seem likely.

Perhaps some of the other members will have some more insights. We are certainly all hoping for a happy ending for both of you.

Hugs,
Marla xx

[rosiegurl]

perhaps try turning the tables on her. she says she can't see you as a man in womens clothing, simply point out that pants and such are generally thought of as mens clothing, and is does she feel she is any less of a woman when she wears them??

and if she doesn't, which is very likely, then why should you be any less of a man in womens clothing.

or ask her to put on a pair of your pants and a shirt and ask her the same thing. sometimes, what you are wearing is just clothes with nothing really deeper than that.

you like how you look/feel dressed up, a lot of guys feel the same in a tux or dress suit.

sometimes, it's just a matter of finding the bit where her understanding will flick on like a bulb

[Jasmine Ellis]

WOW, I'm just going to wish you luck and take care

[Melissa Ryan]

I too am at a loss for words. I believe that your wife is one of the lukiest in the world to have you. You are so understanding of her. It shows you love her. I wish she was giving the same respect in at least trying to understand you. I dont have answers, I just have applause for your commitment in your loving life. I wish you well Draggie! I really do. You are a champ! Is troo coz you are seein the other side. I thank you for you! :happy: :love:

[sue_donim]

At least you have told your wife which is the hardest part.
But I assume from your post she will take a long time to change her viewpoint. Maybe if you had told her 20 years ago she might have a slightly different view by now.

Nowadays you can get male underwear/clothes that looks slightly femanine. for example wear the underpants that look like briefs instead of boxers/y fronts, start to wear shirts that are silky/satin looking, in general wear the kind of items which can be considered unisex.

Try changing your habits and making them a bit more feminine but without going to far. For example when you have a bath/shower wrap the towel round your waist so it looks like a skirt and sit down for 5 minutes while drying your hair.

Eventually she'll start to make a subconsious connection that the towel looks like a skirt and your shirts look like blouses, but technically you won't be crossdressing it will still be you.

Maybe then she might start to consider your needs from a differant viewpoint.

Hugs Sue_donim :-)

[Dragster]

Many thanks to all who responded to my thread, I value your inputs greatly. Even when they are not what I want to hear, it helps to give me an insight into what my wife may be thinking, and that should help me to understand her. I’ve had one PM which told me his wife could almost have written the script for mine. Unfortunately they split up earlier this year, and I didn’t want to hear that. He seems happy now, and able to fulfil his destiny though!

Cindi, I do show her and tell her how much I love her, and I hope you are right, that love conquers all. I just hope it’s soon enough for me to do something about it when/if it happens.

Day Tripper, I’ll choose dressing in the closet before ending this relationship every time. She really feels this way now, it’s not hyperbole.

Telka, I know old leopards rarely change their spots, but we’ve tried a few new experiences recently, and found we like most of them. It seems like my wife does not even want to try this one though, maybe she’s scared of liking it! A couple of years ago, I secretly had a make-over (Transformation UK), and I didn’t recognise myself in the photos. I did recognise my daughter in it, though I looked like a much older version! That was scary!

Sophia, You may be right, that I’m at the end of the road to acceptance. But if I do some of the things I want to do (softly-softly), she may get a little bit curious and decide she had better find out more of what it’s all about. And I haven’t told, and don’t want to tell anyone else I’m a crossdresser. It would kill what’s left of the relationship with my wife if anyone found out!

Marla, there’s too much to respond to in open forum; that’s why I sent you a PM. But thanks again for such a long and thoughtful response.

Rosiegirl, I’ve already played that card, telling her that she wears men’s clothes when she puts trousers and a shirt on, but it wasn’t a trump!

Jasmine and Melissa, Thanks for your good wishes.

Sue-do-nim, (witty name!), I did tell her 20 years ago, but that was almost 20 years into our marriage, and I’ve had that “dishonesty” thrown back at me before now! From then until last year, I did what she requested, and told her nothing. I’ve worn men’s briefs since I was a teenager, and even have a few tangas, but “they’re different, they were meant for men!” Anything which maybe looks similar, but is meant for women, is a no-no. I asked her what would be her reaction if I dressed as a woman in a play, or for a fancy dress party. If it was for humour (like a pantomime dame), she wouldn’t have a problem with it, but if I dressed to look like a real woman, then she’d feel the revulsion. Seems it’s my motivation for dressing which is the problem, and there’s no doubting why I dress; looking like a real woman, and a sexy one to boot, even just from the neck down, is a real thrill for me, and it’s still sexual for me too. I like the idea of more androgynous clothing, but I think she’d suss my motivation in seconds!!!

Thanks again to all of you.
Tony

[DonnaT]

Hi Tony,

Well, I've followed your progess, or lack thereof, for some time now. You've done just about everything you can think of, I reckon. And your wife isn't likely to budge from her position.

What I wonder is, what will she do if you choose to don a (jean) skirt, and go about your in-house daily routines while wearing it?

At this point, I'd suggest trying it. And not just for one day. Maybe on a Monday, then a Thursday, then a Saturday.

[Missy Anne]

Hi Tony,

I can really feel the pain in your post. As one of the lucky ones I always wish it could go well for all of us.

When I am trying to solve a problem (something I have done reasonably well all of my life) I first try to identify the real root cause of the problem. I have not seen that suggestion here so I offer it as another avenue for you to pursue. I suggest you brainstorm about her past upbringing and other life experiences and present them to us here. If the cause of her being so definitive and adamant about it can be identified, maybe some of us can suggest a few ways to attack her problem at the root and at least get some movement for you.

Best regards,

Missy Anne

[Dragster]

Thanks again for your suggestions girls.

Donna, Since she's already said she doesn't want to see me in even a pair of panties, I think that wearing a skirt while she's at home will be seen as just me trying to p*ss her off. And I've already told her I will not try to force her to accept anything she's not ready to accept. It would not be the baby steps approach, it would be like trying to take a giant leap. I intend to keep mentioning the subject from time to time, and buying things regularly, but this time letting her know what I'm doing, but not in detail. That should get the message across that I'm serious, and it isn't going to just stop. Then see where it goes from there.

Missey Ann, She's had a religous upbringing (Methodist), but not a strong one; we both lost the habit of attending church regularly some time ago. I know of no trauma during her early years (I came into her life when she was 19, 40 years ago), and she is the product of a very close and happy family, with just one younger brother. She's always been quite outgoing and is confident in social situations, but like many women, has become quite conscious of what others may think of what she says, does or wears. Neither of us were sexually active before we became "an item", and we have only had sex with one another; quite unusual in this day and age, but I find it quite endearing. As time goes on, her attitude to sex has become more conservative, while I've become more adventurous, and maybe she seems intimidated by this, wondering where it will lead to. She never dressed for sex very often, but hasn't for over 2 years now, in spite of my occasional request, she says she has to be in the right mood. I'd like to try a little bondage and fetishism as well as dress up, but she's not keen on that either, and although she says twice a week would be her ideal, we're lucky to achieve twice a month. She also finds it very difficult to talk about sex, can't tell me what she'd like to try sexually, and says she doesn't have sexual fantasies. I've subscribed to "Desire" magazine for several years, which is pornography for both men and women, but nowhere near hard-core (see http://www.desire.co.uk/). She says it's disgusting, won't read it now, and tries to hide it in case anyone else sees it, but it's given me a lot of ideas, and provided a lot of erotica to fill in for the lack of wifely interest. CDing has also helped me fill the sex void too. There may be a paradox here; her disgust at the knowledge that I like soft porn and wearing female clothing may have reduced her desire for sex with me, which has left a void that I have filled by soft porn and CDing!
Otherwise, we have had a fantastic family life, have two kids in their 30s who now live with partners within 5 miles of us, and we'll become grandparents in January. We retired recently, with enough money to fuel our travelling ambitions, and everything in the garden is rosy, except for sex and my crossdressing desires.
I'm sorry that's not much to go on, but that's all there is. I've tried for years to get to the bottom of her "hang-ups" on sex, and more recently CDing, but her stonewalling is either a defence against something unknown, or she really does not know what turns her on, but knows what turns her off! She also says she hasn't masturbated since we got married. If you can make anything of it, and provide a "magic" key to unlock her potential, I'd love to know.

Many thanks,
Tony