I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 12:31 AM

Okay, similar posts have been made. Let me first say, I fully support and even like crossdressers. However, the questions I am about to raise are directed to CD's who have not come out to their wives or who don't understand why everyone doesn't just accept and understand them or who have come out to their wives and are frustrated they don't accept it or get it. So, the question I raise (and ponder it seriously and honestly) what if you came home and your wife confessed (or partner) that she likes to wear diapers and sometimes act like a baby?

She's always liked it and has been doing it for a long time. She's never cheated on you. Being a baby, sometimes, is just a part of who she is. She's not hurting anyone.

How would you feel? How might you react? Would you truly be able to accept her? Would you think it weird? Would it repulse you?

I know for myself and I'm a pretty tolerant person, that I could not accept a partner who wanted to dress and act like a baby. I might even feel a bit of repulsion at it. It would make me call into question everything I thought I knew about them. I wouldn't even like it if they compromised and did it "in the closet" and not in front of me.

So, responses, thoughts?
Kew

http://www.dpf.com/hotstuff.html

http://www.diaperconnection.com/content/infantilism.html

http://www.dailydiapers.com/adultbaby.html#Health_Problems

http://www.icq.com/groups/view_msg.php?tid=-10&topic_id=582299&gid=12033518

Joy Carter

08-09-2006, 12:43 AM

I think love is one thing that makes acceptance easier,if you truly love someone then you can go with the occasional foray into their dream world. Gee anyone see the stroller with P235.80/16's Goodyear's +?

Yes I am

08-09-2006, 12:48 AM

The diaper/baby thing isn't for me, but obviously there are people out there who dig it. I agree with the point of this thread, people have the right to choose their partners and it's not fair to keep something like the fact that you're a crossdresser a secret. It's a different kind of cheating, in my opinion. And I wouldn't blame any SO that bailed on their partner for basically lying to them and basing a relationship on false premises.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 12:49 AM

Now Joy, you're not really trying here. Seriously, you both have kids, friends and family. How would you feel if she wanted to do her gardening in a diaper with a pacifier around her neck? You wouldn't care? You'd say, well I love her and that's it!?
Kew

Michelle Ellis

08-09-2006, 01:11 AM

Wearing diapers and sucking on pacifiers as an adult I would call fetishistic... I perfer not to think of myself as having a fetish, thanks.

If this is some kind of joke I apologise...

M

Ibuki_Warpetal

08-09-2006, 01:17 AM

This wouldn't bother me unless she needed to be changed.

She'd be old enough to handle that herself, methinks.

Jodie_Lynn

08-09-2006, 01:25 AM

Well if she can accept my dressing, why wouldn't I accept her desires?

Of course, the point you are trying to make is about secrets in a marriage ( or LTR). Any secrets held from one partner are unhealthy. When (NOT if) the other partner discovers you've been concealing something, they will naturally wonder what OTHER secrets you've got lying around like unexploded mines.

My question though is:

If your subject is about secretiveness, why the 4 links to adult infantilism sites? One would be sufficient, if any were actually needed for this discussion.

Tiffany 1953

08-09-2006, 01:26 AM

Wow there are so many what if's. What if your wife suddenly decided XYZ was her newfound pleasure. Moreover, that was she needed to be beaten to enjoy sex. I know that I would not accept that easily as it is not in my nature to do that, but there are those women that want that. You know the gamut of human sexual fetishes is a wide, wide body and encompasses every aspect of our emotions. Love, hate, fear, violence, tenderness, needs and wants. I had the greatest challenge in my life as I wrote about almost every aspect of sexuality and included most of them in my novel. What about the person that is in an ANR? Too weird for some and perfectly acceptable for others. Infantilism practitioners have mates that are tolerant of their fetish just as some of us have wives that tolerate us crossdressers. Then still others live in the closet and could only hope for some acceptance.

The year of research have taught me that the different strokes for different folks is a profound statement and not just the lines of a song. Somnophilia, Necrophilia, Get the picture.

BTW crossdressing and infantilism share several of the same major attractions. "That seemed to be three major reasons again, just like his dressing. Relaxation, arousal with childhood objects, and love of discipline."

Tiffany

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 01:36 AM

Wearing diapers and sucking on pacifiers as an adult I would call fetishistic... I perfer not to think of myself as having a fetish, thanks.

If this is some kind of joke I apologise...

M
Joke? What makes you think it's a joke? It isn't! There are ppl who enjoy this.

Some of your behaviors maybe considered fetishistic even if you prefer you not be thought of that way.

Again, I'm trying to get you all to step outside yourselves. Think truly what a partner might feel.

Try again Michelle.
Kew

Well if she can accept my dressing, why wouldn't I accept her desires?

Of course, the point you are trying to make is about secrets in a marriage ( or LTR). Any secrets held from one partner are unhealthy. When (NOT if) the other partner discovers you've been concealing something, they will naturally wonder what OTHER secrets you've got lying around like unexploded mines.

My question though is:

If your subject is about secretiveness, why the 4 links to adult infantilism sites? One would be sufficient, if any were actually needed for this discussion.

Oh dear dear me!! It's not at all about secretiveness. It's more about an exercise in empathy.

As for four links, just trying to give ppl some resources to learn about it, think about it. And to know, it's not just for a couple of ppl on the planet, there's a whole community.
Kew

Tiffany 1953

08-09-2006, 01:50 AM

Oh dear dear me!! It's not at all about secretiveness. It's more about an exercise in empathy.

As for four links, just trying to give ppl some resources to learn about it, think about it. And to know, it's not just for a couple of ppl on the planet, there's a whole community.
Kew

As there are groups for every fetish imaginable, body mutilation, amputees, etc. A fetish can be something as simple as needing to be with a redhead to be satisfied to needing a dungon in the basement.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 01:58 AM

As there are groups for every fetish imaginable, body mutilation, amputees, etc. A fetish can be something as simple as needing to be with a redhead to be satisfied to needing a dungon in the basement.
Yes, I'm aware of that Tiffany. Again, this is an exercise in EMPATHY for those who are willing to participate. I thought perhaps some CD's may get a sense of what their partners might go through upon discovering their CD partner's CD'ing.
Kew

Joy Carter

08-09-2006, 02:13 AM

I understand what you are doing here Kew I just don't know how to put it. I can tell you that for years WE have been in pain over my gender issues and myself I have a deep guilt over it. I now accept myself I'm trying not to hurt her over it. :o

Lisa Golightly

08-09-2006, 02:29 AM

I kind of have an open mind. If that's her thing then that's her thing. As human's we are the sum of our experiences; as such the person you love is the sum of their experience, fears, preferences and desires.

I've had partners that have liked odd things, things I've kind of gone 'Oh my God!' to in my head, but I've accepted them. Someone once left me because they felt degraded by confessing what they really wanted me to do for them. I thought that was very, very sad... They never felt I could accept them, and they never felt themselves worthy of expecting me to try.

I still feel sad for them even now.

Sarah Bayen

08-09-2006, 03:02 AM

Well Kew that's an interesting thought, and throws some good light on SO reactions - so thanks.

For my own part I've always tried to put up with my partner's ( many ) eccentricities, and have even tried to be supportive of them. And yes, they have included eccentricities of dress which have been socially embarrassing at times.

VERY interestingly for the point you're making, the only time I get really upset is when they start taking over our lives. She started doing group meditation away from home for five nights a week, which I thought was a bit over the top and said so. She told me I was a control freak, and then went on a two week residential as well. Probably sounds invertedly familiar to many GGs out there.

Brianna Lovely

08-09-2006, 03:22 AM

I thought perhaps some CD's may get a sense of what their partners might go through upon discovering their CD partner's CD'ing.
Kew

I can understand the baby thing as a fetish and agree with some difficulty in accepting it. But, I can not compare infantilism and CDing.

After all, I did not object, get upset, call her a lier, tell her family or file for divorce because my wife wore pants, slacks, suits, shorts, flats or sneekers every day, including wearing some of my clothes and shoes. Being a "typical" modern woman, she wanted to be "comfortable" in her dressing and only wore a skirt or dress to weddings or funerals.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 03:35 AM

But, I can not compare infantilism and CDing.

Why?
This is not a theoretical discussion.
It's an exercise in empathy.
Take a leap of faith and truly think about how it might feel to find out such a thing.
Kew
*feels like she's repeating herself*

cath

08-09-2006, 03:51 AM

I wonder if by joking and making comparisons the CD,s are avoiding the issue (of empathy) as many probably have alot guilt regarding their SO's reactions when they first found out.

noname

08-09-2006, 03:52 AM

I don't feel you have a valid comparison.

Let's level the playing field and assume me and nearly all men wear diapers and suck on pacifier, then perhaps sure, it wouldn't be an issue for me.

Women dress like men every day wearing pants, shorts, shirts, and jackets, just about anything they like. Can anyone list one clothing item that is strickly a mans item that would taboo for a women to wear.

I could rant on this. Women: because it's different when you do it.

Laura Jane

08-09-2006, 03:57 AM

... the questions I am about to raise are directed to CD's who have not come out to their wives or who don't understand why everyone doesn't just accept and understand them

Why is there an expectation (from SO's & GG's) that you have to come out?

Unless you are looking for acceptance or participation in your dressing up from your SO, why do you need to tell them about it? I can see if your dressing starts taking over your life it would be wise to tell, but at the end of the day its up to the Cross Dresser!

Relationships range from those who share every detail of their lives with each other, to those who live almost separate lives.

Dressing up is not the same as having an affair and the feelings of being betrayed when this secret is discovered or 'confessed' is a rather overplayed hand.

So if you discover your SO was into infantilism, it will of course affect how view them and may adversely affect your desire or attraction to them, but would not be an excuse to walk out on them then and there. Being asked to participate in it would be tricky, maybe you would agree out of love, but if it grosses you out, you would find your love waning.

The above is just a small snap shot of why people keep certain bits secret from each other or if discovered don't mention it again!

Kate Simmons

08-09-2006, 03:58 AM

Wouldn't like it Kew, especially if I had to change the diapers. I know when my kids were babies, I changed them but sometimes they had really bad ones and I told my wife: hey this one is for you. Guys are such wimps that way anyway. Seriously though, I get your point and I would not like it if my wife wanted to act like a baby. What would I say to people? Hey, she's big for her age--get real! My wife never accepted my CDing and I never really expected her to. I always felt: How would I feel if I were the woman and my husband accounced he wanted to dress and act like a woman? I married a man and that's what I expected, not some fruitcake. Your point is well taken with me and basically that's how I've always felt. I know it may sound somewhat hypocrytical based on who I am, but if I were my wife, I wouldn't like it either. Ericka

cath

08-09-2006, 04:01 AM

[QUOTE=noname;524903]

[Women dress like men every day wearing pants, shorts, shirts, and jackets, just about anything they like. Can anyone list one clothing item that is strickly a mans item that would taboo for a women to wear.]

It isn't just the clothes we dress in trousers with girly tops and shoes,we wear other items sometimes because they are more practical. We are not trying to pass as men we dont have a need to do it to make us feel more masculine. This is the main difference.

noname

08-09-2006, 04:04 AM

It isn't just the clothes we dress in trousers with girly tops and shoes,we wear other items sometimes because they are more practical. We are not trying to pass as men we dont have a need to do it to make us feel more masculine. This is the main difference.

Gee, looks like we are in the same boat. I don't try to pass. I mostly wear womens jeans and cap sleave shirt. Not exactly too girly now is it? Guess people don't like it when I call it like it is.

Edit ** adding on **

Maybe I'm just feeling moody tonight so forgive me. So please do tell, why do I get stares when I'm dressed in all guy clothes and my nails are done? Or I'm wearing just a slightly not so manly shirt? Sorry I find your post very upsetting. I feel it validates my claim of hypocrity of, it's different when you do it. Well, it's not, it's called a double standard.

swiss_susan

08-09-2006, 04:07 AM

Not quite sure how to put this, but I'll give it a go.

I guess it comes down to what each of us is willing to accept whatever our gender, and lifestyle/fetish. If you read through some of the threads on this forum you will find that CD's are really no more tolerant and accepting than the general public at large, (with the exception of CD'ing).

In the example you put forward, I would hope that many of us would at least be willing to inform ourselves about something of this nature that our SO/wife enjoyed/needed/practiced, before making any serious decisions.

Having said that acceptance is not something rational that we wholly control. We are conditioned by our life experience. I could no more accept behaviour in my SO that I find repulsive or abhorrant, than I would accept her being an axe murderer. Neither would I expect my partner to accept me as a CD if it was something that disgusted her.

If such an issue comes up in a relationship the best thing to do in my opinion is to talk about it and decide if there is room for living with the situation without detracting from the relationship. If there is, then open communcation between the two parties about how to manage the "problem". If it is something that either party can't stand, then perhaps it is best to go seperate ways.

I think this is why it is best to get these "major" issues in the open before one goes to far and invests too much in the relationship.

Like most interaction on a personal level it ultimately depends on the individuals.

Perhaps not a popular view, but there are my :2c:

Susan

cath

08-09-2006, 04:12 AM

[QUOTE=noname;524907][Gee, looks like we are in the same boat. I don't try to pass. I mostly wear womens jeans and cap sleave shirt. Not exactly too girly now is it? Guess people don't like it when I call it like it is.][/QUOTE

Then thats fine but I and many other GG's are dealing with the issues of our partners wanting to pass as female and not fully understanding the impact on the emotions we go through.
Dont get me wrong I am fine with the dressing if it could only stay dressing at home.

Kristen Kelly

08-09-2006, 04:33 AM

Diapers and dressing are not the same, or are they, ask a lot or seniors that could not do with out the "NEED"for their DEPENDS

Sarah Bayen

08-09-2006, 04:48 AM

This is a really good exercise at empathy. It's certainly set me thinking.

I've happily put up with my partner wearing hippy chick stuff to a formal do, and roller blading around the office at work. She's dyed her hair purple at times as well, and it's all been seen as just 'wacky'. I knew she was 'wacky' before we got together, and she knew I was a CD. In fact in the early days her main complaint was that I only did it at home, not out in the open, which made her feel it was a bit sordid.

Anyway times have changed - she's still just as wacky - sticking crystals to her forehead for a trip to the Supermarket and stuff, but my CDing is no longer liked. I have to say I feel a bit cheated by that. I miss the evenings by the fire and the shared shopping trips, as well as knowing it's put a barrier between us. I do think I've done my bit on the toleration and empathy front, and I appreciate it's not an easy issue for anyone to deal with in their partner. But I still have a nagging feeling her ( or maybe society's reflected through her ) level of acceptance isn't reciprocating my own.

TVStevie

08-09-2006, 04:50 AM

I would satisfy whichever desire my wife had, provided it was a two-way street. If that included infantilism, BDSM, FTM CDing, whatever...I've got a strong enough stomach for anything, excluding animals, faeces and Conservative MP's.

Sarah Bayen

08-09-2006, 04:53 AM

Oh Stevie Stevie, you're so right! Voting Conservative would be a step too far for me too!!!

Melissa Ryan

08-09-2006, 05:06 AM

I do get what you are asking Kew. I not sure how to answer, not coz I dont know what I feel. But coz every answer has an angle. I would like to think that I would be right there with Lyn with any thing. I have thought of similar things before. It cant be easy for any one to be confronted with something they didnt see comin.

Sometimes I wish there were things that I could compare for my girl. I dont think there ever will be though. I guess once its all said and done, my feelings are that it would be easier to slide slowly into something rather than to be thrown it in a big basket and asked to be the hinge.

I think I understand as I said. I love my lady. I would do almost anything for her. The beginning of that is understranding the things I dont. And to do it before I throw her in the to hard basket. (that'll never happen here!) I like this thread, its asking more than just about what I think. Thankyou!

Shelly Preston

08-09-2006, 05:31 AM

I difficult question to answe,r and most of us would maybe have found out by now, if our wife/partner was invloved is something like this

Or would we ??

How long has each of us kept crossdressing a secret
Adult baby is very similar to crossdressing as for many they would say it only clothes.
Acceptance would be determined by the particualr fetish some I could accept some I could not.
There would be a lot of soul searching before we as a couple got through the difficult time at the begining but it would hopefully have a happy ending.

I just hope I would be as accepting as my wife is of me

oztallulah

08-09-2006, 05:49 AM

Well, this may fit in with some others thoughts, but then again, maybe not. But, it is my opinion. Some of these things like wearing diapers, being tied to a rack and whipped, made to do what many think strange and wierd. But, behid closed doors, what a couple do is really not anyone elses business. As long as it is not emotionally or physically damaging. Some people like 'different' things. I do realise there are extremes in all things, and sometimes those extremes can be disturbing. I would not like to be judged as to what sort of person I am because I wear short skirts and stockings around the house. Or that I sleep in stockings. But, I have been, and will continue to be. Because I am a male that likes to wear female attire. Judge not, lest ye be judged I think is what I am trying hard to say.:2c:

ToyGirl

08-09-2006, 05:59 AM

Could the OP explain why they did not just use the MTF FTM comparison?

Wichever way i look at it theres something negative about this thread.

cath

08-09-2006, 06:05 AM

[Could the OP explain why they did not just use the MTF FTM comparison?]

It was done yesterday in a thread called 'Boot on the other foot'

bgirl

08-09-2006, 06:15 AM

Could the OP explain why they did not just use the MTF FTM comparison?

Wichever way i look at it theres something negative about this thread.

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

Calliope

08-09-2006, 06:34 AM

Marla S

08-09-2006, 06:45 AM

Some of your behaviors maybe considered fetishistic even if you prefer you not be thought of that way.

Again, I'm trying to get you all to step outside yourselves. Think truly what a partner might feel.
[...]
Oh dear dear me!! It's not at all about secretiveness. It's more about an exercise in empathy.

First off, I think transgenderism is not comparable to wanting to be a baby, though there seem to be some "fetishistic" similarities, but IMO this view is superficial.

I would require al long post to explain (maybe later), but IMO the driving force for a TG is to feel and present pretty in a feminine way, to live a feminine life-style (if this is fetishistic, most women are fetishists), and, at least partly, being repelled by the male analog.
If this is comparable to anything (it isn't), than it is similar to "cross-culturing": i.e. if I as a German like to live as an American Indian. (Can't see fetishism in it.)

To step outside oneself means to me to look beyond the "sexualized" border and to see what's left of the CDing.
For me it's joy of life, a way of unfolding my personality, and a spiritual experience.
I didn't put eyeshadow on this morning to go to the dentist for fetishistic reasons (though they could be constructed), but to feel to look good.
Your initial question doesn't go this step, it stays within the sexualized closet.

Back to your initial question. I can't seriously answer it because there is not enough information to be empathic, but probably I'd support it.

Eugenie

08-09-2006, 07:19 AM

I can understand the baby thing as a fetish and agree with some difficulty in accepting it. But, I can not compare infantilism and CDing.

Why?
This is not a theoretical discussion.
It's an exercise in empathy.
Kew
*feels like she's repeating herself*

According to quite a large number of discussions here, X-dressing is pretty much separated from a sexual fantazy for many x-dressers, so the comparison with "playing baby" which is a sexual fantazy, is not valid, I think. Unless, one is into some kind of exhuberant fetishist transvestism, which would become a major sexual fantazy for which your comparison to wearing baby diapers would hold.

The main difference with a sexual fantazy is that being dressed as a woman, just makes the x-dresser look like an ordinary woman, providing "she" is sufficiently skilled at finding proper clothes and correct makeup style.
For x-dressers who tend to dress like ordinary women, they would go unnoticed in the crowd. While an adult (any gender) wearing diapers and baby clothes would certainly not go unnoticed in any crowd.

However, I get your point. What would be our reaction if our SO came out to us with a very different life style, as different from the female "norm" as our X-dressing "en femme" is from the male "norm"? I don't have a proper example of such a "change", but that would make me think a lot.

Actually, the closest comparison would be if my SO would tell me that all these years she was a FtM X-dresser and didn't dare to tell me. But even then, for this comparison to be valid, I would have not to be myself a MtF X-dresser otherwise I would be biased in my judgement.

So on the principle, I agree with your questionning: We, as X-dressers should try more often to put ourselves into our SO's shoes... But I don't think the comparison with wearoing baby diapers works.

:hugs:
Eugenie

Yes I am

08-09-2006, 07:19 AM

Like crossdressing, I'm sure not all people into the infantilism scene do it purely to get off sexually. The comparison is valid in that both practices, crossdressing and infantilism, are socially unacceptable. And their practitioners more than likely have struggled with their desire to do such throughout their lives. In a way this comparison, as an exercise in empathy, is superior to the mtf/ftm comparison, because it takes us crossdressers out of our realm of familiarity when considering how we'd deal with an SO's unexpected revelation concening their nature.

Teresa Amina

08-09-2006, 08:15 AM

Once upon a time my late wife and I worked for the same employer. It was a fairly relaxed atmosphere most of the time and, one day, she and one of the owners were laughing at something on the computer as I walked by. "What's so funny?", I asked. "You've got to see this!", she answered. They were looking at the Diaper Pail Kids website. Yup, adults in diapers! Pretty damn funny at the time, but what if she had really liked it? And got herself all done up and I'd walked in on her?:eek: Sure I'd have freaked out! But, calming down, look at the opportunity to have come out myself and thus dealt with my TGness back then instead of now....

p.s.- glad you've got your pretty face back, Kew!

Stephenie S

08-09-2006, 08:22 AM

Well girls,

Some of you got Kewt's point and some didn't.

It matters not what "fetish" or "perversion" we talk about here. She was trying to get us to take a look at our CDing from another perspective. If your wife suddenly anounced that she liked to dress up in diapers (nappies) and suck on a pacifier (and believe me, there is a sizable segment of the adult population that indulges in this practice) how would you react?

The ONLY answer possible for us is acceptance. That's what we are asking from our wives/SO. So it's the only thing we could do for her. The fact that it would make many of us uncomfortable (indeed, some said they could not accept it) only illustrates the discomfort that we force our wives/SO to endure everyday.

You can't claim that it's not the same thing. It isn't, of course. But that's not the point. The point is that to many of our wives/SO, it IS a "fetish" or "perversion", and it freaks them out on many levels.

What would the neighbors think? What would our families think? What would my boss think? What would our pastor think? What would I think?!!! These are all issues that our loved ones face every day with our behavior. There is absolutly NO difference between these behaviors in terms of acceptance. Just step back from the emotional content of this issue and try and think about this rationally.

That's all Kewt was trying to ask us to do. You can substitute any out of the ordinary habit here, from infantism to cigar smoking. Do we really know and understand what we are asking of our wives/SO to do when we ask them to accept OUR little "fetish" or "perversion". We may not like those terms to describe our behavior, but to many in the world that's just exactly what are doing.

Just an exercise in empathy.

Lovies,
Stephenie

Jasmine Ellis

08-09-2006, 08:25 AM

I hope I would be acceting like my wife is with me

Sarah Bayen

08-09-2006, 08:30 AM

Totally agree with you Stephenie. It's not the behaviour or the motivation for that behaviour that is always the problem, but the impact it has on your life.

So I say well done Kew for bringing it up.

DonnaT

08-09-2006, 08:32 AM

As long as she wasn't embarassed and afraid to go out, I'd have no problem with her being dressed as a baby and wanting to go outside the house.

I might even dress in a little girls party dress and she could be my dolly.

What other people think has never bothered me. They have no say over anything in our lives.

As long as no one is getting hurt, no problem.

Renee D

08-09-2006, 08:52 AM

I just wanted to say that my CDing has taught me EXTREME empathy for all different walks of life. Gay, bi, lesbian, goth look on teens, diaper fetish (even though I don't know any), harley riders, whatever whatever whatever....
It really dosen't matter what the unusal activity is.......I certainly notice these different people but none of it really concerns me much.

If I wasn't a cd'er I think I would look at these people with a more critical eye.

Bottom line......If I wasn't a cd'er I would probably treat people with less understanding.

EricaCD

08-09-2006, 09:07 AM

Stephenie and others: I understand the point you are trying to make about empathy. I also understand and agree that it misses the point to argue whether infantilism is "worse" or "weirder" than crossdressing, or whether it matters if the underlying need is driven by a sexual urge.

However, I disagree utterly with Kew's implicit, and your explicit, assertion that an unwillingness to accept any peculiarity or fetish in our spouse is somehow hypocritical or betrays a fundamental lack of empathy.

Having exposed my wife to the profound shock of my crossdressing, I would be obligated to go out of my way - indeed WELL out of my way - to come to understanding of a similar fetish/passion/secret/whatever of hers. But I cannot slavishly promise an unlimited ability to tolerate a fetish on her part. Perhaps infantilism would be where I draw the line; I don't know. On the other hand, there is unquestionably a line somewhere!

Similarly, if my wife - despite her best efforts - was simply unable to accept the fact of my crossdressing, then I am aware that I would either need to abandon CDing or lose her. And I don't accuse any spouse of a lack of empathy if she fails after giving her best shot to accept crossdressing.

Erica

swiss_susan

08-09-2006, 09:14 AM

Did any of those who responded actually read the links in the first post?

For many who engage in infantilism, adult babies etc... see to do so for emotional rather than sexual reasons. There are many comforting ideas rooted in our infancy, and is it any more surprising that people might try to express these ideas in such a way as each of us express ourselves in clothing designed for the opposite gender.

Is either any more wierd?

Wendy me

08-09-2006, 09:15 AM

it would be ok just as long as i did not have to "CHANGE HER"..................yuck that....

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 11:15 AM

WOW! Have to get to work, not sure my boss would understand why I stayed to answer replies in my thread. However, sorely disappointed with the responses here!! Now, some of you got it and took it to task. I'm not COMPARING CD'ing to infantalism. I'm simply trying to create a situation that asks you--and I'm assuming for most of you this to be true--step out of your comfort zone and TRULY PUT YOURSELF IN YOUR PARTNER"S SHOES. As I said before, this is an excerise in EMPATHY. To those who took it to task, kudos and thank you. Perhaps you've gained some insights you didn't previously have.
More tonight.....
Kew

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?
Dear God people! I honestly meant for this to be something that helped some of you step out of your comfort zones and really look at your behaviors. Simply giving you the chance to wear men's clothing and "pretend to be a man" is not a sufficient stretch. But thinking about being a baby would be for most of you I'd guess. As for how I stand. I like/love CD's/TG's. My last partner was a CD'er and I have a housemate who CD's. I'm single and actually CHOOSE to associate with and date CD'ers/TG'ers. So those of you who think I'm not being genuine or have a different angle, think again.

Contiue grrlz, when I get home I'll expect to see more robust responses.
Kew

Dixie Darling

08-09-2006, 11:30 AM

Kew,

Asking CDs a question like this is probably counterproductive.since the CD has his own issues to "bargain with" (i.e. "If you're going to wear diapers, then I should be allowed to wear feminine things"). It also has a lot to do with how accepting the husband might be. My personal viewpoint is that if it's something that she enjoyed doing and it doesn't cause her any physical harm in any way, then let her enjoy herself. Like many CDs, it may not be her desire to do something like this anywhere other than within the confines of her own home and if that's the case it wouldn't become known to anyone they didn't want to know about it. This is applicable to a LOT of crossdressers who have no intentions of stepping out the door when they're dressed, and are perfectly happy to keep their dressing their own private affair.

Dixie -- http://ww.geocities.com/senorita_cd

Tiffany 1953

08-09-2006, 12:21 PM

The shock value was not there in my marrage to my wife because I knew enough to tell her up front. I love her and after 20+ years would do almost anything she requested if it pleased her.

The comparison is not quite valid unless you add "would you accompany her to an AB event."

Inside activities and "going out enfem" are also a vastly different step.

The AB may dress and crawl into his or her crib to feel safe and secure just as i am going to slip into my new pink Vanity fair nightgown that wifei bought for me as a present for tileing the dining room.

Empathy for all, may not understand why but live and let live. Tiffany

Jenna1561

08-09-2006, 12:29 PM

Kew,

I believe that I get your point - empathy. How would I deal with a revelation from my SO that she had been hiding something from me for many years and that this something was generally regarded as strange and socially unacceptable?

Being a CD/TG I think my empathy for similar situations would be extremely high. I believe I could understand her reluctance to tell me about it and could forgive the deceipt. I believe that I would participate with her in open dialogue on the subject, but upon reflection would probably have some difficulty participating in the activity.

How would I react if she came home from work each day and immediately showered and changed into a diaper and wanted me to feed her a bottle? Probably not well and I would definitely want to put limits on her activity, or at the very least my participation. I definitely would not want our children to know. Would her activities preclude her from completing her responsibilities? Or would she be able to complete them while diapered?

Would I attend a gathering/convention of like-minded individuals? If there was a support group for SO's - definitely. Would I be willing to buy gifts for her to support this activity - I think so. Would I photograph her activities, probably, though I might feel uncomfortable. Would I be willing to take her out in public as "my baby" - NO.

As a side note, I'd like to say that while I have been crossdressing since about 9 or 10, I have also held many conservative views about alternative lifestyles. Since becoming more aware of myself and more accepting of my crossdressing, my views have changed. Where once I might have been considered homphobic, over the years my views have shifted and I am now more accepting. I believe this is directly related to accepting myself and my lifestyle and recognizing the rights of others to pursue their own individuality. The separation of alternative lifestyles from the stereotypical perversions and criminal activities associated with them is the key to acceptance.

In conclusion, I am more aware and tolerant of others' lifestyles and activities because of my crossdressing and my desires to be accepted. While I would most likely be uncomfortable with many aspects of other unusual activities, I believe that I am open to research and discussion on the topic(s). Also, I can understand the reluctance and repulsion some may feel toward such activities such as crossdressing. Walking a mile in someone else's shoes is always an enlightening experience, whether it is alternative lifestyles, medical conditions or physical handicaps.

In my own case, I recently (July 4th) came out to my wife after 20 years of marriage and she is having great difficulty coming to terms with it. I put myself in her place and think that I can somewhat understand what she is experiencing, but not fully.

Jenna

bgirl

08-09-2006, 01:15 PM

Dear God people! I honestly meant for this to be something that helped some of you step out of your comfort zones and really look at your behaviors. Simply giving you the chance to wear men's clothing and "pretend to be a man" is not a sufficient stretch. But thinking about being a baby would be for most of you I'd guess. As for how I stand. I like/love CD's/TG's. My last partner was a CD'er and I have a housemate who CD's. I'm single and actually CHOOSE to associate with and date CD'ers/TG'ers. So those of you who think I'm not being genuine or have a different angle, think again.

Contiue grrlz, when I get home I'll expect to see more robust responses.
Kew

You succeded in moving me out of my comfort zone if that was your intention. In fact as much as I would rather think of other things, this thread bothered me all thru my morning routine. And still does. I will grant that there is a point to having empathy and tolereance and acceptance.
What troubles me is your method. I think many of us are pushed out of comfort zone just coming to terms with CDing. In fact many of us come here for that purpose. I,m not sure you've noticed. Tolerance and empathy and acceptance will come from applying those things to ourselves and to others.
Your analogy is unnecessary. Try this,
What if you found out your SO was a _________ ! How would you feel?
Fill in the blank to your hearts content.

GG Vanya

08-09-2006, 01:20 PM

According to quite a large number of discussions here, X-dressing is pretty much separated from a sexual fantazy for many x-dressers, so the comparison with "playing baby" which is a sexual fantazy, is not valid, I think. Unless, one is into some kind of exhuberant fetishist transvestism, which would become a major sexual fantazy for which your comparison to wearing baby diapers would hold.

The main difference with a sexual fantazy is that being dressed as a woman, just makes the x-dresser look like an ordinary woman, providing "she" is sufficiently skilled at finding proper clothes and correct makeup style.
For x-dressers who tend to dress like ordinary women, they would go unnoticed in the crowd. While an adult (any gender) wearing diapers and baby clothes would certainly not go unnoticed in any crowd.

However, I get your point. What would be our reaction if our SO came out to us with a very different life style, as different from the female "norm" as our X-dressing "en femme" is from the male "norm"? I don't have a proper example of such a "change", but that would make me think a lot.

Actually, the closest comparison would be if my SO would tell me that all these years she was a FtM X-dresser and didn't dare to tell me. But even then, for this comparison to be valid, I would have not to be myself a MtF X-dresser otherwise I would be biased in my judgement.

So on the principle, I agree with your questionning: We, as X-dressers should try more often to put ourselves into our SO's shoes... But I don't think the comparison with wearoing baby diapers works.

:hugs:
Eugenie

You couldn't be more incorrect in this assumption. Infantilism or AB's seldom include sex in their dressing. Think about it, babies do NOT engage in sex so this would totally invalidate WIITTD. I know quite a few AB's and for them, it's an escape into innocence, an opportunity to be nurtured instead of being the nurturer.

tekla west

08-09-2006, 01:37 PM

I had held off on this, but now that I find myself agreeing with Vanya I guess I should sit down and think this through. Anyway she is spot-on. AB is NOT about sex at all, neither is LG.

Thanks for making that clear and accurate point Vanya.

So, here goes.

Well I guess I might be in a unique position to answer this, at least in some ways. First off I have to confess I have a pacifier - not out of infantilism but a souvenir of my past rave events. (Google rave+pacifier if you don't know cause I'm not going to tell you & I think its against the rules to discuss that here anyway.)

But beyond that I got involved with some very special people who run some very special parties here. Not only was i able to use a full range of my skills, and get paid while working in drag - girl has to make her own money ya know, keeps her honest - but I can dress in my best Catholic SchoolGirl in Disgrace outfits and still be far and away the most NORMAL person in there. So I do have some experience in associating with people of differing proclivities shall we say.

The AB crowd is kind of silly, but harmless. (Much like the furry/plush people) Given the range of activities I've been witness to it seems to be on the milder end of the spectrum, and in its own way is indeed very close to what we do - so it was a bit of brilliance to use it here. Unlike the S/M deal, and like CD, it does not necessarily require another person to participate. Lonely is the S w/o the M, and vice-versa.

This is, and I think part of the reason Kute chose it is part of the turn off for so many GGs, because its not like we need them in on this. They don't HAVE to, and few things can get you on the wrong side of a girl as fast as making her an unnecessary luxury and not a requirement. An AB can dress up, suck that pacifier or bottle and watch TeleTubbies all they want, they do not strictly NEED anyone else to participate. And I would imagine that there are far more (percentage wise) ABs in a closet by themselves then CDs - for obvious reasons.

So, would I be GGG (good giving and game) in this situation? Perhaps, the thought does not turn me on, however if she turned me on, and it turned her on ... well, I always say I would try anything once, and twice if I like it. So I could I think put up with it, under the same circumstances that many of the wives put on it. Around the house would be fine, and I guess I could even attend an event or two from time to time, possibly going so far as to be a LG for her at such events, but I would not be a caregiver/mommy - i.e. not active participation in all aspects of it, assuming of course that they wanted ALL aspects of it.

So, to the degree that it was her deal, and all I had to do was "put up with it" - show tolerance - I most likely could handle it. Its not like something like a humiliation trip where I would be put in the position of doing something I feel morally opposed to i.e. humiliating and degrading another human being.

That being said, I have found myself at some of these parties participating in scenes (as the lingo would have it) that I never would have imagined myself ever being a part of - and in some cases, (such is the poverty of my imagination) that I never even imagined occurred. Some were like teenage fantasies come true, far beyond what I ever thought might happen to me, others that would be harder to convinced me to play along with a second time.

The problem here, and one similar to the GGs, is "How come you did not tell me before." To a degree, if the relationship had been going on for a long time I would feel trapped - or tricked at the least - by the RECENT admission. My current GF met me on a board like this, so all the CD stuff was up front to begin with, matter of fact it was the first thing she knew about me. She has no problem with it, but it does nothing sexual for her either. If I want to do that, I put on a suit and tie, or the macho work clothes, jeans, cut sleeve tight shirts, work-boots (hey, we all have our own kinks I guess) and I indulge her on a regular basis.

Eugenie

08-09-2006, 05:34 PM

You couldn't be more incorrect in this assumption. Infantilism or AB's seldom include sex in their dressing. Think about it, babies do NOT engage in sex so this would totally invalidate WIITTD. I know quite a few AB's and for them, it's an escape into innocence, an opportunity to be nurtured instead of being the nurturer.

OK I stand corrected for this wrong assumption about infantilism (note, even though this is out of the subject, that babies do have sexual experiences, albeit uncontrolled, but they exist). I admit that my knowledge about the subject of infantilism is rather limited... :o

My point about the question was that, yes I have empathy for it and accept the fact that we should be more conscious about the feelings of our SOs. I just felt that the comparison with infantilism didn't hold. But I may be wrong here too...
+?
Eugenie

Anima-87-388

08-09-2006, 06:22 PM

I agree there is alot of negativity in this thread. I feel like this thread is putting down a lot of people.

The CDs that think they are entitled to instant acceptance by their SO's (who still may not even know about their CDing) are living in a fantasy.

I'd like to think most CDs are above that. Most CDs are mature enough know they are asking for alot when they ask for acceptance.

The ones that come online and post something like "WHY CAN"T EVERYBODY ACCEPT ME!!!??? IT"S JUST CLOTHES!!!!" are just beginning to come to terms with their CDing and may not yet realize how it could impact their lives, they just think no one could possibly care about them.

Mature CDs are an empathetic bunch, many are FULLY CAPABLE of seeing the shoe on the other foot, many more suffer from guilt over it.

I feel the response you'd like to hear is OMG, if my SO came over and told me she had secretly been into Infantalism all her life and expected me to be a part of it, I'd give her the boot.....WAIT....OMG....that's like what I did to her!....WOW, I'm a freak AND now a hypocritical being, It's great that my SO is disgusted by me, I should be more like her!

Not all CDs are mature , and not all partners (even the most willing) are able to deal with their SO as a CD or even a TG, get over it.

P.S. You don't EXERCISE empathy. That sounds downright insulting, it's like "Here, let me help you grow a heart you filthy heartless beast". Now I know that isn't what you meant but with the vindictive tone of this thread that's how I took it.

tekla west

08-09-2006, 06:56 PM

I did not see (or read) anything negative in the question. Matter of fact I thought the comparison was about as good as you could get, and she even gave links so that we could be 100% sure about exactly what she was pointing to.

That being said, I found out in a past career that few things in life are more ill-thought of, more degraded, less welcome and more thankless than attempting to make people think, particularly when you try to get them to think outside of themselves.

And I know its not just me. In the past few years I have seen many of my old friends leave the academy one by one, all for the same basic reason. And people wonder why, with a doctorate I build stages, set up sound systems, and rig light shows. Yeesh.

GG Vanya

08-09-2006, 07:04 PM

I've yet to understand where anyone is seeing negativity here on Kew's part.

I think the AB scenario is perfect for comparison. I think the "boot on the other foot" thread was blown off lightly with the males thinking "oh well, she already wears pants, shorts, etc., so what would be the big adjustment?

Accepting a partner's desire for infantilism inherently requires a deeper level of accepting and adjusting one's private life.

I'm making no accusations, just expressing my thoughts and opinions.

Jenna1561

08-09-2006, 07:11 PM

I have to agree with Kat on this. I do not see any implied negativity in the original post. I believe Kew is simply attempting to get us to think about ourselves and how we would react to a "life-shattering" revelation.

Personally I see a lot of negativity and defensiveness in many of the replies.

Kew, I applaud you for making a post that is both thought provoking and soul stirring.

Love,

Jenna

vbcdgrl

08-09-2006, 07:29 PM

I think I know what Kew is getting at, and basically agree with "Yes I am's" response.
CDs should not expect their SOs to just "grin and bear it". That's extremely selfish. If your SO is supportive, or even just tolerant of your CDing, count your blessings. If she's not, you've got some hard choices to make.

Vikki

Fallen Angel

08-09-2006, 07:54 PM

mmmmmmmmm rock a bye baby on angles lap,i dont know what would be worst the feeding or the changeing:eek: :puke: but luv is strange xxxxxx's

GG Vanya

08-09-2006, 08:09 PM

It's disappointing to see so many "my kink is ok but your kink is not" posts, not to mention the ones who are simply making jokes about AB's rather than do the difficult work of actually imagining yourself in the position Kew has described and *thinking* about what your reaction would be, then comparing that feeling to what SO's of CD's feel upon discovery.

Sure, this topic takes you out of your comfort zone, but it also sheds light on how SO's are jerked out of their comfort zones against their will in *reality* instead of imagination.

DeeInGeorgia

08-09-2006, 09:31 PM

Vanya,

My wife is overweight by quite a lot. She takes a lot of different medications every day. We are both in our 50s. Every day I worry that I will wake up and she has had a stroke or a heart attack that makes her an invalid where she has to wear diapers, etc. That would be even worse than dealing with someone doing it as a fetish.

Because of my internal assumed weirdness when I was younger, I have always been a bit more empathetic to strangeness, though when younger, I did have a problem with heavy women as possible mates. The women I came into contact with saw my acceptance of all as a trait that turned them off, they prefering the macho, slap them around, big jock, father figure personality.

My wife today is not the person I married 20 years ago. She never told me about her food fetish, but a few months before our wedding, she threatened to call off the wedding if I ever came between her and her food. Since then she has gained 100 pounds and outweighs me by 90 pounds (during the same time I gained 25 pounds).

But I will not leave her. It took me 15 years of dating and asking out over 60 women and going out with over 30, before I found her. God meant for me to marry her. I am terrified she will become bed ridden and I will have to take care of her, and I do not know if I will be able to do it.

So whats a little crossdressing?

Dee

Nike

08-09-2006, 09:44 PM

I'd be disappointed that she didn't tell me in the early stages as I did about the CD thing. Beyond that, I understand that there is comfort and a "letting go" which happens when I dress, so rather than empathy, I could relate on some level. Dressing is comforting. It is as far removed from the things I "do" in my daily life and allows me to reconnect with "being". This would be how I would understand the desire for AB. The desire for comfort and nurturing (which in some ways is what we CD's do for ourselves by dressing) would seem to be the force which drives this desire.

It might be uncomfortable, and even feel silly, but understanding the need of my partner for reassuring comfort is something I would hope to provide in this scenario as I attempt do in our day-to-day life anyway. Like any activity partners share, I would expect that each was afforded the respect of their personal limits, and see a unique opportunity for intimacy.

I personally think this was a fine exercise as it allowed me to address how comfortable I am with myself, my Bride and my life circumstance.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 09:50 PM

P.S. You don't EXERCISE empathy. That sounds downright insulting, it's like "Here, let me help you grow a heart you filthy heartless beast". Now I know that isn't what you meant but with the vindictive tone of this thread that's how I took it.
I'm a licensed psychotherapist and YES, you can exercise empathy. It's a skill and quality that can be cultivated. So, I disagree.

As for the vindictive tone, I'm perplexed/confused by your statement.
Did you not hear that I love and like CD's/TG's. That they are my friends and have been a partner of mine. And, I would like to pursue a relationship again and not with a plain genetic male but a CD/TG male. So I don't get how my tone could be construed as vindictive. My intent was to get CD's/TG's in relationships out of their comfort zone and try to imagine, if their partner had some secret about their being that was not widely accepted and that they themselves might not accept--how would that feel? Would it be so easy to accept them? Would it make you question what you thought you knew of them? Would it change your relationship with them?

Again, I'm only trying to encourage thought and reflection. Several of you have done a stupendous job. Some very insightful comments and reflections!

Thank you,
Kew

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 09:54 PM

mmmmmmmmm rock a bye baby on angles lap,i dont know what would be worst the feeding or the changeing:eek: :puke: but luv is strange xxxxxx's

Ummm, she might want to breastfeed!
Kew

AmandaM

08-09-2006, 10:09 PM

Jodie_Lynn

08-09-2006, 10:17 PM

I can only speak for myself, I will not presume to speak for others here or elsewhere.

Kew's attempt to make people 'move out of their comfort zone' is admirable, but I'm not sure that it applies to all here.

In my case, my wife (of 239 months :D ) is aware of Jodie-Lynn. She has expressed her feelings as "It doesn't really bother me, do it if you want", as long as our friends, family, and daughter don't find out. And while I would love her to accept Jodie into our life, buying or just shopping for her, girls nite, etc, I can understand and empathize with her unwillingness to do so, and I have kept the interaction between Jodie and her to a minimum. Clothing and accessories are sparingly bought, and on the cheap so as not to drain family funds with my "hobby". I give her no excuse or reason to become actively displeased with CD-ing/TG-ism. I accept her acceptance.

I have to admit that I have seen some posters on these boards with the "Why can't she fully integrate my alter ego into our lives" threads, and had to shake my head in wonder. It seems it isn't enough that a CD's spouse tolerates it, but the CD wants enthusiastic support and involvement. But it is understandable, in that we all wish for support and acceptance from our loved ones.

For some, they have a seemingly "golden" life where their spouse not only accepts, but participates and even encourages.

I think that the reason many CD's choose to conceal their behavior, is partly due to an empathy for how their spouse will react, and the spouses wellbeing as well.

I cannot say that Kews posts were negative, but the first post in this thread did strike me as containing somewhat of a "well how would you feel" anger to it. I'm sure that is not the tone she wished to express, but that is, I think, how many received it.

GG Vanya

08-09-2006, 10:22 PM

You made a fatal mistake in your exercise. You tried to get us to think outside of the box with an example that unconsciously, to many, directly compares cding to abing. Alluding to their equality in shock-value. That's why others asked the point of why not asking about mtf/ftm. You missed a direct comparison. What you asked is akin to asking us, "Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". Apples and oranges. This is borne out by the varied responses that do not lead to definitive conclusions.

BTW, if I was not a cding male, and my gf said she was ftm, I would not accept it for myself, I'd want a regular chick.

Amanda,

Someone tried the direct comparison in the "boot on the other foot" thread.
As I stated previously, most just blew it off, presumably because CDs seem to feel that their SO's already crossdress when they wear pants, etc. It wasn't a "stretch" for CDs to consider their wives as F2M in that regard.

I really don't view it as equal to spanking fish. AB's "crossdress" in their own way. They cross from adult apparel to infant apparel. When in the infant apparel, ABs assume the mannerisms of an infant, just as genetic males assume mannerisms of a female when wearing feminine attire.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 10:27 PM

You made a fatal mistake in your exercise. You tried to get us to think outside of the box with an example that unconsciously, to many, directly compares cding to abing. Alluding to their equality in shock-value. That's why others asked the point of why not asking about mtf/ftm. You missed a direct comparison. What you asked is akin to asking us,"Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". Apples and oranges. This is borne out by the varied responses that do not lead to definitive conclusions.

BTW, if I was not a cding male, and my gf said she was ftm, I would not accept it for myself, I'd want a regular chick.

Fatal? How so? It doesn't appear fatal at all.
Disturbing, thought provoking, yes, but fatal no.

Shock value is not my aim but to get folks to step outside their comfort level. This could not be accomplished by asking genetic males to think of how they might feel if their SO wanted to dress and act as a male.

Your analogy that my asking CD's to think/consider if their SO came out as an AB is equivalent to ,"Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". is ludicris and terribly faulty reasoning on your part. An AB wants to don clothing and assume behaviors that is similar to a CD wanting to don clothing and assume behaviors. That is not the case when you say, "your wife says she likes to spank fish". That does not involve clothing--which CDing does and it is about a specific behavior and not the essence of something, i.e., to be like a baby, to be like a woman.

Kew
*goes and gets some bandages for her wounds*
Geeeeeeeez folks, truly not trying to offend, just to get you to think!

Dee 1062

08-09-2006, 10:27 PM

nikisbest

08-09-2006, 10:29 PM

I'm a licensed psychotherapist and YES, you can exercise empathy. It's a skill and quality that can be cultivated. So, I disagree.

As for the vindictive tone, I'm perplexed/confused by your statement.
Did you not hear that I love and like CD's/TG's. That they are my friends and have been a partner of mine. And, I would like to pursue a relationship again and not with a plain genetic male but a CD/TG male. So I don't get how my tone could be construed as vindictive. My intent was to get CD's/TG's in relationships out of their comfort zone and try to imagine, if their partner had some secret about their being that was not widely accepted and that they themselves might not accept--how would that feel? Would it be so easy to accept them? Would it make you question what you thought you knew of them? Would it change your relationship with them?

Again, I'm only trying to encourage thought and reflection. Several of you have done a stupendous job. Some very insightful comments and reflections!

Thank you,
Kew

Kew,

I for one appreciated this question, I don't see where some have gotten anything negative out of it. Some didn't get the fact that you just used the comparison that you used (out of the blue) just to give an example. I think that sometimes we as CD's are somewhat selfish in that, we only think of what we want and desire. That our better half has put up with some of the things we have done out of love, and we sometimes abuse that love and never think anything of it. I think that being CD has made me a more open-minded person. I can remember when an old g/f made a comment that she wanted something sexual that I thought was kinda weird, that I made some smart comment and made fun of it. I would hope that I would be more open-minded now, and would try my best to give my wife as much support as possible. I am one of the lucky ones, in that, my wife knows and has bought several things for me. If I were to make fun of or act selfish about something she enjoyed or even wanted to try, would be unthinkable.
Niki:2c:

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 10:38 PM

I have heard about this and if that's your thing then fine with me.
My question is did you just want to ask a question or is this somthing that happen to you? or are you the one that is a baby?
I'm sure somewhere on the net they have a post for you...This one is for transgender people...And acting like a baby is not transgender...unless he is a baby boy who wants to wear pink diapers, then just maybe:)
Oh dear, dear me!

Did not happen to me ever.

Have always had a thing for boiz in makeup and have tried making up some of my ex-b/f's to their chagrin!

Dated a cd'er and am actively seeking a cd'er/tg as a partner.

I don't want to dress or act like a baby and tho am rather quite tolerant of differences in ppl, this would totally turn me off if my partner engaged in this activity.

Kew

I here this issue a LOT! Why can't we be accepted? Why can't my wife understand (fill in the blank). Why can she where boiz clothes and it's not okay for me? WHy WHY WHY!? So, it seemed trying to approach this from an angle that could truly get ppl to think, might help.

Roberta Lynn

08-09-2006, 10:41 PM

Hey Kew, You done good.
Thanks for the thread.
:love:

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 10:48 PM

Hey Kew, You done good.
Thanks for the thread.
:love:
You're welcome!

You'd think I"m the devil incarnate!

Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you!
Kew

Julogden

08-09-2006, 11:21 PM

Hi Kew,

An interesting question, and not easy to answer, as actually being in that situation is probably a lot different than sitting here pecking away at the keys while trying to imagine what it would be like.

What follows is strictly my opinion/s.

That said, if that was the only thing "wrong" with a spouse that I loved, I'd like to think I'd do my best to accept her and help her with her infantilism. If she needed to do that in public, I would probably do my best to dissuade her. If someone outside the relationship found out and had a problem with it, I'd back her up 100%. I don't have to understand her reasons for doing it, but if I love her, I'll help her do it to the best of my abilities and still love her.

However, this feels to me as if you're equating a theoretical infantile wife with "normal" wives trying to accept, or at least tolerate, a CD'ing husband. That is not quite the same thing, IMO, especially if the TG husband is dressing due to a feminine gender identity, but I can see why some wives who don't really understand TG issues might think it's essentially the same thing. Fetishistic CD'ing might be a bit closer to infantilism in they are both paraphilias. Of course, accepting it may not be any easier though.

Regardless, they are both basically harmless behaviors, as long as balance is maintained and the needs of both partners are taken care of.

OK, up on my soap box now, off on a sort of related tangent.

In my opinion, anyone who has gender identity issues should explore those issues, be honest with themselves and figure out who they are as early in life as they possibly can, before getting into a serious relationship with anyone. And a full honest disclosure early on in any relationship is a must too. It's the only fair thing for both parties.:2c:

I think I sort of gave an answer to your question somewhere in there. Thanks for the mental exercise!:happy:

Carol:hugs:

fionasboots

08-09-2006, 11:24 PM

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

Because the obvious, and honest answer every CDer would give if they found out their SO was cross dressing is "I'd be fine with it".

It is totally impossible for someone who does cross dress, and who has come to terms with that idea in their own mind, to answer any other way.

Once you have come to terms with the concept of "I simply like/enjoy wearing clothes of the opposite sex" and build up all the usual valid arguments like "it's just clothes" then it can be hard to fully appreciate what a shock it is to a partner - I know, I'm going through this now.

There are lots of other things, fetishes or otherwise, that you could start this thread with but I would guess that they maybe easier to accept, e.g. if you wear a basque and stockings having the former made of PVC/rubber probably isn't a huge leap so probably acceptable.

Going for something rather more out of 'normality' is just to show how extreme a reaction an SO can have. And again, trust me, I am on the receiving end of such a reaction at the moment.

Anyway, it's just worth bearing in mind how the other person can feel - everyone has a limit to their acceptance, try to understand this if/when you come out to an SO.

Anima-87-388

08-09-2006, 11:26 PM

but the first post in this thread did strike me as containing somewhat of a "well how would you feel" anger to it. I'm sure that is not the tone she wished to express, but that is, I think, how many received it.

Yes, this is all I was getting at. It sometimes also just seems to be assumed in threads like these that a CD has NO IDEA how it feels to be in the other person's shoes even though I imagine most of us would feel the same way in situations like these, this is what I find negative.

I here this issue a LOT! Why can't we be accepted? Why can't my wife understand (fill in the blank). Why can she where boiz clothes and it's not okay for me? WHy WHY WHY!? So, it seemed trying to approach this from an angle that could truly get ppl to think, might help.

The problem is these people just don't understand that any relationship is a two way street etc. A mature CD can answer all of the above and the above example could be applied to people with any fetish or abnormal behavior who just can't figure out why they aren't accepted even though they find their behavior harmless.

I'm single but if I was in a relationship with someone who revealed herself to be an AB only after a long amount of time, I would react as most GG's do when their SO tells them they are a CD :eek:, I just thought people already knew that...then again I also thought people knew that when a woman wears pants it really isn't the same as crossdressing :o

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 11:27 PM

My thoughtful thread gets two stars, hmmmmm.

Let's see what does get 5 stars here:

Listed by thread title
Desirable image

Girls have more fun? ( 1 2)

You know you're married to a crossdresser if.....

Breastform Adhesive!! ( 1 2)

I was only trying to be helpful for the few who might have felt they benefited from such an exercise.

Now, let me ask my critics; why would you bite one of the hands that feed you?

Curious!
Kew

tekla west

08-09-2006, 11:36 PM

Well, if you save up the stars you can get a great set of steak knifes!

And I would never bite the hand that feeds me without deep frying it first in a delicious batter with a little ketsup on the side. And I hear that the Napa Wine Company's, 2005 Sauvignon Blanc is great with 'the hand that feeds you' too.

Yum.

ashlee chiffon

08-09-2006, 11:37 PM

you mean you wouldn't like me if i wore diapers? even if they were nylon diapers? Under a satiny blue dress with full petticoats?
*just kidding!*

KewTnCurvy GG

08-09-2006, 11:43 PM

Jodie_Lynn

08-10-2006, 12:00 AM

what are these "stars" you speak of?

Did I miss another memo?

And, just for the record Kew, I AM enjoying this discussion. But, the only comfort zone you got me out of, is the one where I feel I'm imposing on my wifes good nature. Now I'll be fretting even more....

I'm just a wee neurotic about that..........
:(

HaleyPink2000

08-10-2006, 12:22 AM

Hun, one thing. I'm already to those years that the Wife wears adult diapers when we go some places. Thats old age. LOL:( :2c:

KewTnCurvy GG

08-10-2006, 12:26 AM

Hun, one thing. I'm already to those years that the Wife wears adult diapers when we go some places. Thats old age. LOL:( :2c:
I'm not talking that kind of wearing diapers and I'm sorry to hear that Haley. Hugs,
Kew

KewTnCurvy GG

08-10-2006, 12:26 AM

KewTnCurvy GG

08-10-2006, 12:27 AM

you mean you wouldn't like me if i wore diapers? even if they were nylon diapers? Under a satiny blue dress with full petticoats?
*just kidding!*

Only if they have pink flowers too!

And, where's my coffee?!
Kew

Jodie_Lynn

08-10-2006, 12:28 AM

Lack of thinking is NOT one of my (many) problems :D :D :D

I think I think too much. I think.

Amanduhrob

08-10-2006, 07:57 AM

I've been following this thread for a bit, and here's my pov.

I live with a bisexual Domme F/F couple, and unfortunately, I have more skirts, and heels than the both of them. Not much surprises me in our relationship, and if one wanted to wear diapers, and act as a child, she would be accepted here, thou it does nothing for me personally. I've come to the point in my life where I've realized that you have a short time on this Earth, so you should enjoy it to the fullest extent.

If your needs aren't harmful to others, by all means enjoy yourself, and if you are fortunate enough to find a S/O who accepts you for who you are, and you accept them for who they are, you are one of the blessed few.

Tiffany 1953

08-10-2006, 09:57 AM

Amanda,

AB's "crossdress" in their own way. They cross from adult apparel to infant apparel. When in the infant apparel, ABs assume the mannerisms of an infant, just as genetic males assume mannerisms of a female when wearing feminine attire.

Yes and don't forget some males dress as girls and some as boys. the same is true for the girls. And KEW, as a Licensed ... you know the ANR group would not mind the coment on your earlier post.

Mistress_Thorny

08-10-2006, 10:15 AM

I really don' know how to respond to this thread. I knew about rosie's dressing before we became a couple and so I made my decision to enter into the relationship with full knowledge.

I don't hink I would like any secret in our relationship that would make me feel excluded in a huge part of his life but then again how does it hurt me?

People are going to come out in their own way and in their own time. I can well understand the fear of rejection as well as the lose of life as they know it by coming out. The reaction of others could well change their life forever.

I would say if in doubt do not share it. But also that I hope that they one day would because I believe it frees a Man to be able to share it with one he loves.

peace

Tiffany 1953

08-10-2006, 10:55 AM

Vanya,

My wife today is not the person I married 20 years ago. She never told me about her food fetish, but a few months before our wedding, she threatened to call off the wedding if I ever came between her and her food. Since then she has gained 100 pounds and outweighs me by 90 pounds (during the same time I gained 25 pounds).

But I will not leave her. It took me 15 years of dating and asking out over 60 women and going out with over 30, before I found her. God meant for me to marry her. I am terrified she will become bed ridden and I will have to take care of her, and I do not know if I will be able to do it.

So whats a little crossdressing?

Dee

You most probably will take care of her. My wedding vows meant something to me and after my wifes 2 CHF's I have done many things for her that are outside the normal. Careing for ones liftime partner is easy once you have to do it. it is the thinking about "Waht if" that is the hardest part. Hugs Tiffany

HaleyPink2000

08-10-2006, 11:06 AM

LOL sorry Kew. LOLOL:)

Yeah I knew what you were saying. :heehee:

Ok, to the subject. Nahh, It would not bother me much. I'd get used to it, as I have all the other things our life together has thrown at us. Lets say if she had that as a fetish. It would be at least something to level the playing field around here.

Lets see, diaper changing, I'd have a little problem with that some. I’d kind of like the powdering her bottom though. But I might be doing that someday anyway when we get older. LOL:heehee:

Lets see the sucking on a pacifier. Hmmm. Nahh, they do that now as those are the rage here for candy. You see even adults running around with those little candy ones. It's no worse than cigarettes to look at. But I'd much rather the people next to me be sucking on pacifiers than cigarettes. The smoke from cigarettes I can’t take.

Her wearing baby dolls most of the time, Hmmm? Lets see, would I like that? Yeah, that would be really cute. Baby strollers would not apply though. They have those real cool electric mobility chairs in the malls.

She already wears bonnets around the farm, doing work in the sun. Also to re-enactments that we go play music at. So a baby doll hat or bonnet would not be a bother to me either.

Lets see, tantrums and misbehaving. Now that happens raising a child. If she wants to throw a tantrum, I am not the one that’s going to stop her now. She is stronger than I am. I'd have to call her brother over. LOLOL:D

Sorry, just a light attemp at some humor!:heehee: :tongueout :love: :p

Marla GG

08-10-2006, 11:13 AM

You know, I rarely get involved in contentious threads like this, but I really have to say something here.

Those of you who are pointing out that crossdressing and infantalism are not the same thing, are completely missing the point. Of course they are not the same. That's why adult babies have their own discussion forums and we have ours. But are the two things equivalent for the hypothetical exercise that Kew proposed? Yes, absolutely. Because this exercise was not about how you, as a CD/TG individual, view yourself. Whatever your angle is, whether crossdressing is about fetishism or identity or clothing rights for you, that is not what Kew's question was about. It was about getting you to consider how your wife or girlfriend, someone with no prior understanding of crossdressing, might feel upon learning that her genetic male partner likes to (or needs to) wear women's clothing.

I can see why the comparison made you uncomfortable. It is because you think that an adult dressing and acting like an infant is disgusting, silly, sick, shameful, wrong, and perverted, whereas what you do is none of those things. And incidentally, I happen to feel that crossdressing can be anything from a harmless kink or "hobby" to a beautiful expression of your gender-giftedness and a way of displaying on the outside who you are on the inside. It is certainly never, ever, something to be ashamed of. But again, that is not the point.

To be blunt, the point is that regardless of how positively you view yourself, for your wife or girlfriend who encounters this side of you for the first time, the level of shock and discomfort IS similar to finding out that your partner is a closeted adult baby. I know that this isn't a nice thing to think about, particularly since many of you are still struggling with your own lifelong guilt issues, and you don't come to this forum to feel worse about yourself. I am sorry that the subject came up, but here we are, so we may as well deal with it.

I have been involved in this community for a long time and have gotten to know many partners of crossdressers and trans gals, and believe me, when they first learn that their man sometimes likes to dress as a woman, most of them do not think "Oh, no big deal, that's the same as me wearing pants." Some are super-cool with it, especially if they are comfortable with alternative lifestyles or have known TG folks before, but your average woman is initially going to find the idea just as odd, alien, scary, and revolting as the idea of adults wearing diapers and drinking from bottles. No wonder we freak out when you tell us! That is why it takes a lot of education, a lot of communication, and a lot of work-- not to mention a lot of love -- for SOs to get to place of acceptance. The good news is that it can, and does, happen.

So to reiterate: no one is calling you a fetishist or putting you on the same "level" with infantalists, okay? All Kew was doing was trying to get you to see that for your partner, your crossdressing might be just as difficult to accept as it would be for you to accept her need to role-play at being a baby, if the shoe was on the other foot. Is that so hard to understand?

Love,
Marla xx

Kimberly

08-10-2006, 11:14 AM

To be flippant: Hey, I'd join her!!

They really ought to try and finish the list of sexual deviance I seem to have...

*Looks around*

So I guess I'm one of a minority here... kk - I'll just go and crawl back into my batcave. :sorry:

EDIT: And can people stop bashing infantalism? It's a valid alternative lifestyle choice - just as you have yours. Honestly -- stop the bitchy-ness and start the empathy. xx

HaleyPink2000

08-10-2006, 11:16 AM

Oh, and to be real serious!

We had our Uncle live with us till just before he died. He was an elderly man in his 80’s. We did everything for him from changing the bed covers to getting him in and out of the tub. Helping and even changing his adult diapers etc. Feeding him when needed also. Finally for medical reasons we could not do it anymore.

I could do no less for my own wife.:2c:

Haley

Maria2004

08-10-2006, 11:42 AM

I didn't notice the links when I 1st saw it. I thought the concept was purely hypothetical on your part until I realized from other replies that this was real. I couldn't believe people did this, I went to the links, while I reading them I felt ill, I forced myself to continue reading, my mind felt like it was disassociating with realty. I knew my wife "felt". Now I know "how" it felt.
I'm crying.

kathy gg

08-10-2006, 11:55 AM

Kew I think your thread was a really great idea....sadly alot of cd's are not ready for an excercise like this. Out of their comfort zone?....you bet. Empathy a hard pill to swallow? Absolutely!!

Marla thanks for clarifying what seemd to me a very simple idea, but seemd to have morphed into something it was never intended to be.

Again...gee, I hate that I have to keep repeating myself on this forum....second time this week I have had to defend a gg being 'into' cd's.....

But most gg's who are on this forum enjoy this aspect of their partner. Most of us dig it and find being with a tg partner to be fullfilling.

As I have stated many times past, gg's who hate crossdressing and hate cd's and want to change cd's...dont' come to places like this or if they do come here - post a few hate filled threads- and then leave.

long time gg posters and members are here to help those who are struggeling and are finding problems upon disclosure.

Since comparing cd's to other things is rather difficult, Kew used an example which I thought illustrated a very good point.

She did not do this to make others feel bad, or o make one feel even more guilt, but to give an insight into how a woman finding out *might* feel.

The more tools given which show cd's how it feels for a wife...isn't that better to see a different view point?

For those *thinking* about coming out or in the process of coming out need all the tools to help them see how/why their wife is feeling negativity.

It is not a black and white issue, Kew used an example of something most people on here admitted to finding uncomfortable or woudl have no turn on for. That might give a clue as to how one's wife feels uncomfortable with cding.

And to thsoe doubting her authenticity, sorry numbers don't lie, and we have a pretty good gg population in here which like or looked to date a cd. When are the doubters going to start believing that we are real, we are here to help and we are not here to make anyone feel bad?

If one cannot at least listen to us gg's which are *pro-crossdressing* with an open mind....god help those of you who have to deal with gg's {or the general public} who are *anti-cding*.....

Marla S

08-10-2006, 12:03 PM

Sorry, I have to rant a bit.

Those of you who are pointing out that crossdressing and infantalism are not the same thing, are completely missing the point. Of course they are not the same. That's why adult babies have their own discussion forums and we have ours. But are the two things equivalent for the hypothetical exercise that Kew proposed? Yes, absolutely. [..]
It was about getting you to consider how your wife or girlfriend, someone with no prior understanding of crossdressing, might feel upon learning that her genetic male partner likes to (or needs to) wear women's clothing.
If this is the point: Generaly speaking, how does one feel to be confronted with something that is out of the norms, we don't have to discuss about infantilism. There are far more "every day" examples, that cover the acceptance problem and the how to deal with it far better IMO as CDing is nothing special in this sense.

How about:

Being married to someone of a different ethnics (Blacks still have problems in the USA and Europe and sometimes it really causes trouble with the family).

Being married to someone of a different religion (has been a huge problem in the past and still is in some areas.)

Being married to someone with heavy overweight (those people got moked once in a while)

Having a handicapted baby (parents have to face a lot of "public trouble". Especially some fathers just run away cause they can stand it or feel hemmed.)

Being hadicapped oneself ( Resentments, stares, mocking etc.)

etc.

So what we are talking about ?

Some deviation from norms or a sexual ("embarassing") deviation ?

To be blunt, the point is that regardless of how positively you view yourself, for your wife or girlfriend who encounters this side of you for the first time, the level of shock and discomfort IS similar to finding out that your partner is a closeted adult baby. I know that this isn't a nice thing to think about, particularly since many of you are still struggling with your own lifelong guilt issues, and you don't come to this forum to feel worse about yourself. I am sorry that the subject came up, but here we are, so we may as well deal with it.

Of course it is troublesome and even a shock for our SOs. I think every single CDer is somehow aware of it. Otherwise we wouldn't have been in the closet for most of our life, trying to hide it from our parents, family , SO, children.
I admit though, that an egocentric behavior easily can develop when you have the fear of being rejected, being a failure and you have to deal with this alone.

Some are super-cool with it, especially if they are comfortable with alternative lifestyles or have known TG folks before, but your average woman is initially going to find the idea just as odd, alien, scary, and revolting as the idea of adults wearing diapers and drinking from bottles. No wonder we freak out when you tell us!
I absolutaly agree, but than we discuss about sexual deviations (perversions in the eye of the SO) and it is legtime to see if TG and infantilism are comparable or not.

That is why it takes a lot of education, a lot of communication, and a lot of work -- not to mention a lot of love --
This is the way to go.

... for SOs to get to place of acceptance.
I'd rather be respected for what I am.

tekla west

08-10-2006, 12:55 PM

I have often observed that one of the reasons that people don't like to think outside of themselves is that such exercises tend to show the true colors of a person much better because they are not being allowed to just keep up with their tried and true act. It forces them to step away from the carefully constructed public persona and show the real person underneath. People hate that.

One of the points here is to get people to try to understand what a sudden revelation might be like from the other point of view. And almost no-one wrote about the aspect of that person concealing such a thing from their lover for so long a time. Which - as any reading of the posts will tell you - is problem number one for a lot of the SOs. That they have been put in this position unwillingly. Tragically I think that many of those SO MIGHT have gone along with it, had they known from the get-go, if they had in the worlds of the law, "Informed Choice." They are now stuck with no choice, and rather than being informed, they were in fact deliberately kept in the dark and lied to. Small wonder that upon hearing this revelation their first reaction is "I'm outa here."

I think that if they had been given the opportunity to ease into it, to play their way into it, to gradually embrace it many would. But, now it comes full weight out of nowhere, like Athena springing from the head of Zeus. And that is hard to handle.

But I think underneath that, and designed into the original proposition was another issue, which was how many people would be, in the worlds - or letters - of Dan Savage, GGG. Good, Giving, and Game. How far would you go to indulge your partner with something that did not necessarily turn you on - or perhaps, went so far as to turn you off? Could you get over yourself long enough to indulge someone you loved? Because if we want partners that are GGG, should we not be the same in return? As it turn out, a whole lot of people who EXPECT the other to be GGG are themselves NNN. (Nohow, Noway, Not Ever!) Thought that hardly surprises me, it does sadden me. In the words of Nat Henthoff, its all about "Freedom for me but not for thee." Such sentiments are sad no matter where they are encountered.

ToyGirl

08-10-2006, 01:04 PM

Since i was probably the first person to use the word negative in the thread i will post again. I am a TS and im Single so My opinion on the thread question itself is pointless and with that said i probably should not have posted at all , I felt that comparison was unfair or a misunderstanding of labels (possibly on my behalf) i personally understand it that CD is not a fetish but TV is. I asked why not use F2M to M2F instead. To wich i got no reply from the OP.

Even if i disagreed on the terms of the comparison it was never my intention to turn this into GG vs CD argument.

<3 Nicole

Jodie_Lynn

08-10-2006, 01:14 PM

soooooo, we CD's get damned for 'hiding' ourselves from our spouse, but then we are brought to task for not empathizing with our spouses reaction to our revelations.

Can any CD or TG tell me if the reason they concealed was because they wished to cause a problem with their SO, or to prevent one? Or that they came out to their wife without one moments thought to what she might feel?

Can ANY CDer or TG state that they have given no thought to the reactions, feelings and emotional turmoil of their SO? Of how this would affect their relationship?

Of course the GG's on this forum, for the most part, have a positive or at least accepting stance regarding the whole issue, elsewise they wouldn't be here.

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, or just dense, but I cannot help but feel that we are somehow being criticized whatever decision we (as a group) make. It just seems that the whole concept of pushing us out of a comfort zone, and empathizing with our spouse assumes that we ARE in a comfort zone, and that we DON'T consider how our spouse will react.

Perhaps there are a few who have a 'I-don't-care-what-she-thinks-this-is-me" attitude, but from what I've read on these boards, they would be the very small minority.

Marla S

08-10-2006, 01:24 PM

One of the points here is to get people to try to understand what a sudden revelation might be like from the other point of view.

I think we all can agree on sudden revelations. If they have a positive content, they are a surprise. If they have a problematic content it causes always a shock.
That's trivial.

And almost no-one wrote about the aspect of that person concealing such a thing from their lover for so long a time. Which - as any reading of the posts will tell you - is problem number one for a lot of the SOs.
I agree, but as you wrote they have good reasons for it.

For me the key question is.

Is CDing or TG a perversion (in the negative meaning of the word) as most SOs might see it (at least at first.), or is it more kind of a lifestyle ?

This question hasn't been answered yet, but the answer is curcial to solve the problem.
Me, and as I read it from most of the members here, see it as a lifestyle. As said, our SOs, at least at first, see it more as a perversion.

That is a bad basis for discussion, understanding, and learning (see this thread). Every attempt of empathy from both sides will fail, if this can't be sorted out.

I am so conservative that I would act different if I am actually a pervert (Am I ?).
Probably my ex would have handled it better if she would have seen it as a kind of a lifstyle.
And if the both of us would have seen it from the same perspective (this way or that way) we pobably would have found together a way to deal with it and maybe still would be a couple.

~Kitty GG~

08-10-2006, 01:25 PM

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

For the average woman to find out her husband is a CD is mind blowing.

Now if we just say to a CD... 'what if the situation is reversed?' its not so mindblowing cuz you know and understand the whole CD/gender thing.

So it has to be something that you don't do yourself. Something that's out of your realm of experience and something that you would never in a million years have thought your wife.. the women you thought you KNEW would be doing.

Its easy to have empathy for someone who has a similar need to ours. How about having empathy for and still loving, desiring, and wanting to share your life with someone who's blown your whole image of them out of the water?

And also its not about someone being wacky.. having purple hair does not equate to this.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Maria2004

08-10-2006, 03:53 PM

How about having empathy for and still loving, desiring, and wanting to share your life with someone who's blown your whole image of them out of the water?

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

That's how I took this excercise, once I realized the diaper wearing thing actually existed, the sheer revulsion I felt was overwhelming, the DB forum, the online diaper store, all looked the same as our forums and TG friendly web sites, which drove home that I'm not any differnt, only in my prefered form of whatever you want to call it now, I no longer care. Then to realize this must have been the way my wife felt. I'm totally crushed and horrified to think I put my wife thru what I felt. I knew it was bad, but had no idea until now how bad it really is. This debate about telling and not telling, lies and feelings of betrayal has become pointless to me. Once this hit me, to see your life wiped away, that's all that was left, the feeling of betrayal after 22 years of marriage. I don't know what I would do. Right now I feel ashamed. My wife will home from work soon, I'm going to discuss this with her tonight. I don't even want to look at a dress right now, I'm just gonna pack all my crap away, I don't even want to see it.

KewTnCurvy GG

08-10-2006, 07:53 PM

Maria,
I don't want anyone to feel bad but just to feel what their SO's might feel. I think you did get a taste of that in my 'exercise' or whatever you want to call it. However, I hope it doesn't lead you to deny who you are by packing up your stuff. Though I think that the acceptance of oneself waxes and wanes and is a long process.
Hugs
Kew

AmandaM

08-10-2006, 08:26 PM

You are so cute!

I still think it's a stretch. I think maybe your premises are wrong, or you have some internal prejudices that make you think this is a valid comparison. I don't understand how you can compare the shock of a woman finding out her husband is a crossdresser to the shock of someone finding out their spouse likes to play baby. To me, they are not the same. I think you are equating clothes and behaviours to someone's internal gender conflicts.

In this sense, I think that you might as well have compared us to people who want be monkeys, or have sex with cars, or a host of other proclivities. In this comparison, you're calling us a proclivity. That, is what is offending some here.

But, it's your comparison, so I'll play. Nope, couldn't accept it. And if my spouse wants to have sex with barnyard animals, can't accept that either. :tongueout

Maria2004

08-11-2006, 01:39 AM

I still think it's a stretch. I think maybe your premises are wrong, or you have some internal prejudices that make you think this is a valid comparison.

I wasn't making "comparisons"

I don't understand how you can compare the shock of a woman finding out her husband is a crossdresser to the shock of someone finding out their spouse likes to play baby.

Shock is shock, regardless of the catalyst. I was " empathizing " with my wife.

To me, they are not the same. I think you are equating clothes and behaviours to someone's internal gender conflicts.

Hmmm talk about "internal predjudices" .

In this sense, I think that you might as well have compared us to people who want be monkeys, or have sex with cars, or a host of other proclivities. In this comparison, you're calling us a proclivity.

Actually I was only refering to myself, but hey, if the show fits......

That, is what is offending some here.

I wonder who those "some" are :tongueout

tekla west

08-11-2006, 01:48 AM

I belive, as indicated clearly in the topic header, that those remarks were directed to Kewt and not you. At her posts, not yours.

Maria2004

08-11-2006, 02:06 AM

I belive, as indicated clearly in the topic header, that those remarks were directed to Kewt and not you. At her posts, not yours.

In either case I consider my "perceptions" valid in this "public forum" for the benefit of those who don't PM.

HaleyPink2000

08-11-2006, 02:29 AM

One thing that struck home with me. Was a comment made in a book I did read on the subject. About a Women finding out about there Husbands CDing. It was something like " What about the dreams the Wife had when she was 12, of getting married to a certain type man". It did not say Cross Dresser. It said Man. So at that point I did step back and re-evaluate my life with my wife. I thought that over alot!!!! Was I being fair to her, and her dreams being this way? Was I being a little selfish??? So Now I spend time in drab more around her. Rather than dressed. I got married to be married, not to just loose her down the line.

That said though, If she did have a certain fetish thing going on. Like being an adult baby. Would she think the same? Then do the same for me? Dress and act less like a baby around me? I think not. She'd tell me " deal with it"... :rolleyes:

Sarah Bayen

08-11-2006, 03:23 AM

[QUOTE=~Kitty GG~;526169]

And also its not about someone being wacky.. having purple hair does not equate to this.

No it's not just about being wacky. It's about self exploration and expression, particularlly where these challenge personal and social assumptions of behaviour. It would be great if we could all have equal freedom in these areas rather than allowing greater latitudes of behaviour to some groups than others.

tekla west

08-11-2006, 03:46 AM

I think you would find that the groups that have such freedom were not handed their rights on a platter. They did not get them because society was feeling particularly benevolent that day. They got them by fighting for them, organizing for them, getting out in the street and yes, getting in people's faces too.

In many cases people were mocked, scorned, humiliated. In the extreame they were put in jail, beaten, their houses and churches bombed. People died. That is true of African-Americans, and the gay movement also. Its true for unions, for farm-workers, and for women. Ain't no easy walk to freedom as the old spiritual says.

Or, in the case of the counterculture, you can do it by abandoning most of what society was offering in exchange for conformity - by doing without.

Given that, to paraphrase JFK, ask not what your movement can do for you, ask what you can do for your movement. Or as we say in show-biz "What have you done for us lately?"

Marla S

08-11-2006, 04:49 AM

Given that, to paraphrase JFK, ask not what your movement can do for you, ask what you can do for your movement. Or as we say in show-biz "What have you done for us lately?"
Wouldn't it be a good idea to clarify first for what kind of movement we get involved with.

Emancipation of feminine traits ? (--> to live openly and free)

Alternative life-style ? (--> to live more in a ghetto-like surroundings and events)

or

Sexual deviation ? (--> better to stay in the closet)

I'd really like to know, before I make a fool of myself if I act based on the wrong assumption.

Jessica Brekke

08-12-2006, 10:50 AM

This is an interesting question. And yes, one can make all sorts of arguments that it's not a one to one metaphor, and CDing is more acceptable blah, blah, but that's not really the point, if I'm understanding KewTnCurvy correctly.

I have to admit, my first thought was: "EWWWWWW!" It's a pretty disturbing image. Kind of makes me shudder.

But then thinking about it more, I realized something else. But just like in CDing, infantalism is probably more than 'just clothes' to some people. It's likely a sign of deeper personality issues. Just at a guess, I'd say someone who's trying to get in touch with the part of themselves that is utterly selfish, needy, and helpless. If I'm right about that, and 'diapering' (my own term, but seems to fit) was my partner's way of expressing those feelings -- as CDing is, in my case -- and if it actually allowed her to function as the responsible, mature, and sympathetic human being that I love on a day to day basis... then I'd learn to cope.

In the end, I don't think I could participate in it. After two kids, and five straight years of changing diapers between the two of them, I don't think I could ever find anything remotely sexual about it. But if that's what my wife needed to do, on her own? Then, I think, over time, I could be supportive of her needs, and love her, in spite of it.

~Kitty GG~

08-12-2006, 12:03 PM

Right now I feel ashamed. My wife will home from work soon, I'm going to discuss this with her tonight. I don't even want to look at a dress right now, I'm just gonna pack all my crap away, I don't even want to see it.

oh please don't feel ashamed. you are who you are and there's nothing wrong with that. :hugs:

I saw this thread as an exercise in empathy.. to see how shocking, confronting, and scarey it can be to learn things about a spouse late in the game.

I find it interesting that so many are horrified at being compared like this. why is it so disgusting? and if someone feels so disgusted by it why can't they understand that cding would horrify others?

the baby scene isn't hurting anyone. it does equate in many ways with cding. and its a rather common thing statistically. so why is so repulsive?

If that was the case in our life I'd have had to look into it the same way I did with the cding and the ts issues. figure out if this was something that fit in my life. and figure out what priority my spouse was to me. But I do think that it would have been about the same as far as shock and as to how it made me re-evaluate the person. often they compare a spouse finding out about cding to grieving over the loss of the person they married. so its not just some minor thing like a hairstyle change or choosing a different but still socially acceptable style of dress.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Marla S

08-12-2006, 12:11 PM

I find it interesting that so many are horrified at being compared like this. why is it so disgusting? and if someone feels so disgusted by it why can't they understand that cding would horrify others?
From my point of view it's not being horrified by infantilism, I am horrified 'cause I think the initial question is based on the wrong assumption.

In the somewhat same light I see the "horrified" reaction by GGs on the classical phrase for a CDs apology: "Women in pants are crossdressing". This phrase also is based on a wrong assumption but it obviously is something to fear. Why ?

Shelly Preston

08-12-2006, 12:29 PM

From my point of view it's not being horrified by infantilism, I am horrified 'cause I think the initial question is based on the wrong assumption.

In the somewhat same light I see the "horrified" reaction by GGs on the classical phrase for a CDs apology: "Women in pants are crossdressing". This phrase also is based on a wrong assumption but it obviously is something to fear. Why ?

The initial question is designed to make you think about the emotions you would go through, if presented by a similar set of circumstances, to that which Wives/ SO's go through when told they are partnered to a crossdresser.

Infantilism is only an example of what it could be.

sparks

08-12-2006, 12:50 PM

Just a question!
Do I have to Change HER?

A good thread and to lengthy for me to now read all responses. But Yes I told my wife afew years into marriage. And I wish I never had.

If she she came to me and said let's play! I will be Baby and you can be Mommy. HMMM

But yes I would be feeling much of the same things that my thought about me and still thinks about me. What else is hiding in there. Will this be a permanent thing. Just a fetish or lifestyle? The list goes on and on.

Would I stay, Would I still love her and accept. Most likely. If anything I would attempt to understand.

Diane Paris

08-12-2006, 01:10 PM

I can not imagine my wife ever wanting to do this adult baby scene, but that is not the question we were asked to discuss.

To answer as directly as I can, if I came home to hear my wife confess that she likes to wear diapers and sometimes act like a baby, I would...

How would I feel? I would feel shocked at first because we have been married a long time and I am just now learning about this very important part of her make up. I would feel somewhat confused and maybe hurt that she waited until now to tell me about something so important to her. I would feel anger.

How might I react? I would keep my mouth shut and listen, for hours, days, weeks or as long as necessary to understand. I would only ask questions for clarification at first. I would want to fully understand why she likes this, what need is being met by doing this, and what she is seeking in dressing and acting like a baby. (i.e. does she want to be a baby all the time or just on occasion, does she want to wear diapers to bed? Is there an erotic component to this? etc. )

Would I truly be able to accept her? Oh yes, no question about accepting her. That is not even a passing thought. She has set the ultimate example for me to follow in that she totally accepts me with my strong need to look, feel, and act feminine on occasion. How could I possibly consider not giving her that same love and devotion in return. There is no reason other than adultry that I would ever not continue to love and accept her as she is, with or without her diapers.

Would Ithink it weird? Would it repulse me? Yes, I would think it was weird, initially. I thought it was weird when I read about it in this post. But on further examinination and after reading about AB, DL, and the various needs of people in to this scene, I would likely stop thinking that it is weird once I understook fully what is means to my wife.

The word "weird" is an unkind word for "can't relate" in my view. I just have difficulty thinking that anything that is part of my wife or anything that she needs can be weird. I have to much love and devotion for her to think that way. My goal would be to understand, to try to relate to her as much as possible, and give her the love, attention, and acceptance that she deserves from the one who loves and accepts her most....as she is...with her need for diapers and somethings to act like a baby.

ChristineRenee

08-12-2006, 01:28 PM

I'd be SHOCKED. But only because my wife is a pretty straight-laced, and normal (by society's standards) woman. I would definitely try to understand her reasons for doing it though, as she always has with mine. And if I had a proclivity for that type of adventurism...I most likely would join in on it with her...but certainly NOT because I am WEIRD or anything like that you must understand.:devil::D

NighttimeGirl

08-12-2006, 01:37 PM

Yes, I'm aware of that Tiffany. Again, this is an exercise in EMPATHY for those who are willing to participate. I thought perhaps some CD's may get a sense of what their partners might go through upon discovering their CD partner's CD'ing.
Kew

How can you empathise with someone who wants to wear nappies when you dont wear nappies yourself, the whole thing about empathy is putting yourself in that position, i can't do that when it hasnt happened, if my girlfriend told me she was a crossdresser i could empathise as i am, this whole stanislavski s**te is too much, yeah if my g/f wanted to wear a nappie and go out to do the garden she could, so what! who gives a s**t what anyone else thinks, she accepts me I accept her,

this thread seems to me is just like saying ok you wear womens clothes step outside yourself and say what would you do if you came home and found your other half in bed with a rattle snake??? or some other lewd act, there are ppl with a fetish for watching another have a dump on a glass table and all that, there are ppl out there who get off on allsorts, why did you give an excercise in EMPATHY regarding babys nappies, surely it would have been more suited to say what you say if you came home and your other half told you she likes to flatten her chest and wear a beard and dress like a man of a night time, I could show all the EMPATHY in the world for that one, why? cause I am in that position reversed.
seems to me the nappie thing was purely for shock value and it is a difficult one for anyone to answer not just a cd.
pointless really,

sorry but that was my tuppence.

:love:

~Kitty GG~

08-12-2006, 01:51 PM

How can you empathise with someone who wants to wear nappies when you dont wear nappies yourselfall

that's what it means to empathize..

Empathy: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for empathy

Its not about sharing the actual experience. Its about putting yourself in the others shoes.

The secret need/behaviour could be anything. But for this exercise its important that its NOT cross dressing because the members of this forum are too familiar with cross dressing and therefore don't require empathy to relate to it.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

NighttimeGirl

08-12-2006, 02:01 PM

an emotional feeling of identification (EMPATHY)

I still can't identify with it,

Im sorry but i know what it means ~

Tamara Croft

08-12-2006, 02:28 PM

Marla S

08-12-2006, 02:36 PM

The initial question is designed to make you think about the emotions you would go through, if presented by a similar set of circumstances, to that which Wives/ SO's go through when told they are partnered to a crossdresser.

Infantilism is only an example of what it could be.

I am well aware of that, and I gave a few other examples that may have drastic impacts on a relationship, or how to arrange a life with challenges like this.
I also have every understanding for the shock if the CDing is revealed maybe long after marriage. I also see (and read in this forum) that after the outing TG folks sometimes is so excited that they loose sight and sense of proportion. Which makes it even harder for their SOs to deal with it.

BUT, for me infantilism is a destructive example as it is, correct me if I am wrong, at first associated with a sexual (pervert) load (true or not).
In this sense infantilism is indeed comparable to CDing, as CDing also at first is a associated with a sexual (pervert) load, and therefor the initial question seems to be legitime.

Nevertheless, IMHO CDing (TG) isn't primary of sexual intention (how sexual (pervert) a 4-6 year old can be ?), but it is exactly this assumed sexual load that causes a great part of the trouble our SOs have to face.

In this sense I find the initial question ("exercise") inappropriate and destructive (yes, and in a certain way offending).
IMHO it would be far more easy for our SOs (as well as for some of the TG folks) to deal with the non-deniable erotic (sexual) aspect of CDing too, if it would be seen as a secondary effect, which might even loose importance, if the primary reason is allowed to be unwrapped.

NighttimeGirl

08-12-2006, 02:41 PM

I dont have an opinion on ppl who wear nappies, all I was saying was i couldnt identify, if that is wrong then wrong I am.

I'm gettin out of this thread now whilst I still got my parachute, wait too late........ plunge

I apologise for missing the boat,

no I don't actually, I missed the boat because I never brought a ticket

:love:

ChristineRenee

08-12-2006, 03:24 PM

I am well aware of that, and I gave a few other examples that may have drastic impacts on a relationship, or how to arrange a life with challenges like this.
I also have every understanding for the shock if the CDing is revealed maybe long after marriage. I also see (and read in this forum) that after the outing TG folks sometimes is so excited that they loose sight and sense of proportion. Which makes it even harder for their SOs to deal with it.

BUT, for me infantilism is a destructive example as it is, correct me if I am wrong, at first associated with a sexual (pervert) load (true or not).
In this sense infantilism is indeed comparable to CDing, as CDing also at first is a associated with a sexual (pervert) load, and therefor the initial question seems to be legitime.

Nevertheless, IMHO CDing (TG) isn't primary of sexual intention (how sexual (pervert) a 4-6 year old can be ?), but it is exactly this assumed sexual load that causes a great part of the trouble our SOs have to face.

In this sense I find the initial question ("exercise") inappropriate and destructive (yes, and in a certain way offending).
IMHO it would be far more easy for our SOs (as well as for some of the TG folks) to deal with the non-deniable erotic (sexual) aspect of CDing too, if it would be seen as a secondary effect, which might even loose importance, if the primary reason is allowed to be unwrapped.No offense Marla...but I have read and reread this post about 5 times and I STILL can't figure out what you are talking about here. Maybe it's just that I'm not cerebral enough...but what exactly are you trying to say???:strugglin

Marla S

08-12-2006, 04:06 PM

Maybe it's just that I'm not cerebral enough...
No. Maybe my English is not good enough, or more gravely my thoughts are a bit weird.

My premise 1 (simplified) is: Transgenderism (including CDing) is not of sexual and/or fetish-like nature.
Premise 2: In the view of the public transgenderism is of sexual and/or fetish-like nature, including our SOs that are usually struck by this matter like the bold from the blue sky.
Premise 3: Infantilism is associated by the public as of sexual and/or fetish-like nature.

So, making an "exercise" which compares premise 2 and 3 may be a funny game, but can't give a fruitfull result as it is not related to premise 1, the main subject.

As this comparison contributes to cement the IMO wrong view from premise 2 (can't say much about 3), a comparison like this is destructive in order to solve the real problems TG folks and their SOs have to face.

Though also not exactly the same category*, I think a more valid "exercise" would be a comparison between transgenderism and a handicap. Like "How you would feel if your SO suddenly becomes handicapped (i.e. by an accident)?

@offending. If you are positive about that being a CD/TG is a way of thinking and feeling in every aspect of your life, one may see it as offending, if this is (as I see the comparison) reduced to the sexual aspect. IMO it doesn't help our SOs as well as us. (maybe I am a bit over-reacting here)

I doubt that I am more clear now, but I tried :sad:

*I like comparisons a lot, but never ever in all of the years thinking about my CDing found one that really fits.

Sharon

08-12-2006, 06:40 PM

The author of this thread has made her point(very good, Kew!), and the point is that many of you are as intolerant of other lifestyles as those you cry about being intolerant of yours.

The point of this exercise, if I may be so bold to speak for Kew, is to make you think. How is someone's desire to wear a diaper, or any other article of clothing, any different than our desire to wear clothing designed for the opposite sex -- at least to the eyes of an outsider? Some of you are taking this personally, but to another person who doesn't crossdress, they don't see such a difference -- adult babies and crossdressers all wear clothing not acceptable to a large segment of society. How is our choice of what to wear any better than another persons? We may not understand their desire or need, but we should be a bit more willing to accept it and them.

NighttimeGirl

08-12-2006, 06:59 PM

the point has proven we are all inheritantly conditioned too just as the rest of society is, but dont forget I have spent most of my life trying to fit into the world that was created for me by the powers that be, all it goes to show is that everybody no matter how much they try to be different are all the same in one way or another.

I'm sorry if i offended anyone regarding this, this was not my intention, I see this thread now and I think yeah Kew has a really valid point here.

:hugs:

:love:

AmandaM

08-13-2006, 12:18 AM

Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable!!!! How can you not empathise with those different to you?? You may find the comparison repulsive, but there are those who find crossdressing repulsive, freaky, weird etc.... You are missing the whole point of Kews post :rolleyes: We have a member on this board who is an adult baby, I'm sure she will be so glad to have read what you think about her in this thread. :Pfft:

I don't dislike or hate that member. I don't care what she does. I used harsh words in arguing since I was a little ticked. Sorry to that member. I "know" your abing is not like some severe fetishes that I mentioned. You were caught in the crossfire, sorry.

renee99

08-16-2006, 05:21 PM

Late to this thread.

First, remember not everyone is confronted with this aspect of themselves prior to marriage. So blame cannot necessarily be laid at the feet of the CD unless it is assumed that he hid something during the vows.

The comparison to adult baby is interesting, but falls flat. An adult is able to get along with another adult, even a TG acting as a woman or a man, even if interaction must be limited to a non sexual context because it is a turn off. How does an adult get along with an adult acting like a baby? It is impossible without role play (acting like the mother/father). So that places an extra burden on the partner not present in CD.

There were many comments with the usual "women wear pants, why can't I wear skirts". This only makes sense if the person is wearing the skirt for comfort or for fashion. It does not make sense if the person is dressing to appear as a woman, because the woman wearing pants is not dressing to appear as a man. It also does not make sense if there are TG issues involved, because the woman wearing pants certainly is not acting like, and does not wish to be, a man.

It's a sliding scale. If you like certain articles of clothing, your wife is likely to be accepting. If you have a sexual obsession with some articles of clothing, your wife may find it weirder but be accepting. If you dress to appear as a woman, you should expect resistance from your surprised wife. If you act and/or wish to be a woman, you should expect even more resistance, or even resignation and divorce.

And all of that risk is multiplied as soon as you express a desire to start going out.

So the original post is spot on about the reaction of the partner being proportional to the shock. But I don't think adult baby is comparable because it demands that the partner do certain things to play along with the fantasy. The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

Kimberly

08-16-2006, 05:38 PM

The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.
Doesn't it?

GG Vanya

08-16-2006, 06:15 PM

Late to this thread.

But I don't think adult baby is comparable because it demands that the partner do certain things to play along with the fantasy. The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

Not necessarily true. Just as is true with CDers, some AB's don't expect, or even desire, participation from their SO. There are levels of AB just as there are levels of CD. Some ABs simply wish to dress and/or sleep as babies. Some simply wear adult diapers under their business suits with no physical disability which would require it. Some go for the entire kit and kaboodle.

As for the non requirement for the SO to participate, the simple fact that they get sucked (or joyfully jump) into the closet also is a degree of participation.

Lisa Maren

08-16-2006, 10:05 PM

Hi everyone

First, I wish to point out that I intend to tell any potential SO about me within the first few dates.

Second, I wish to say that I am not repulsed by the individual who endulges in infantilism. That's their lifestyle, it's all human, and I'm not shocked by that.

Third, I wish to say (and hope that you believe me) that I feel tremendous empathy for the GGs whose spouses don't tell them for years about the CDing. It's absolutely a horrible surprise and I truly feel for each and everyone of you. This is exactly why I intend to inform any potential SO about me within the first few dates (if I don't feel, for whatever reason, that I am comfortable trusting the person I'm dating with the knowledge of my CDing then that person isn't a suitable mate and I will have to stop dating that person). In fact, I have not been dating for quite a while because I am confused about my gender and I wish to be as reasonably sure as humanly possible exactly what is making me tick so that I will have all relevant information to share and can be fully honest.

Now let me respond more directly to this thread.

I fully understand the point of the post -- being empathetic. As I said at the beginning, I am very empathetic -- so much so that my empathy is one of the strongest reasons that I question my gender.

I am very glad that you brought your feelings to us, Kew. I am beyond... verbal expression, literally... as to how grateful I am that there are GGs who are willing to be with us the way we are (it's too bad you can't see my face right now because you'd know just how much).

Again, I totally empathize with GGs who receive the nasty surprise of finding out they've been deceived.

Hugs,
Lisa

Tamara Croft

08-16-2006, 10:53 PM

Some of you still AREN'T GETTING IT!!!!!! sheesh.... tis rocket science me thinks :rolleyes:

1. Kew ISN'T comparing CD'S TO ADULT BABIES
2. Kew IS talking about EMPATHY regarding ADULT BABIES
3. THERE IS A BLOODY BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!

Ok, so what is so hard to understand about that? Stop having a go at her AND LEARN TO READ THE POST!!!!!!

</RANT>

GG Vanya

08-16-2006, 11:04 PM

Hi everyone

First, I wish to point out that I intended to tell any potential SO about me within the first few dates.

Second, I wish to say that I am not repulsed by the individual who endulges in infantilism. That's their lifestyle, it's all human, and I'm not shocked by that.

Third, I wish to say (and hope that you believe me) that I feel tremendous empathy for the GGs whose spouses don't tell them for years about the CDing. It's absolutely a horrible surprise and I truly feel for each and everyone of you. This is exactly why I intend to inform any potential SO about me within the first few dates (if I don't feel, for whatever reason, that I am comfortable trusting the person I'm dating with the knowledge of my CDing then that person isn't a suitable mate and I will have to stop dating that person). In fact, I have not been dating for quite a while because I am confused about my gender and I wish to be as reasonably sure as humanly possible exactly what is making me tick so that I will have all relevant information to share and can be fully honest.

Now let me respond more directly to this thread.

A diaper is NOT an item of clothing. It is, in fact, a receptacle for human excretion, a toilet for those too young to use one. I have a three year old nephew and a one and a half year old niece and have changed their diapers many, many times. It is a stinking, nasty thing. Thus, yes, I'm sorry, but it is insulting to have my crossdressing compared to that.Moreover, those who indulge in infantilism are regressing to some state of immaturity whereas for CDers that is the exception, not the rule.

Personally, I think that at best, the comparison to infantilism is, at best, partial and less than flattering and that there are better comparisons.

I fully understand the point of the post -- being empathetic. As I said at the beginning, I am very empathetic -- so much so that my empathy is one of the strongest reasons that I question my gender.

I am very glad that you brought your feelings to us, Kew. I am beyond... verbal expression, literally... as to how grateful I am that there are GGs who are willing to be with us the way we are (it's too bad you can't see my face right now because you'd know just how much).

I feel the need to point out that, yes, you went too far with your analogy, good intent or not. As the expression goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

For the record, I have read through the entire thread, including a double-check before I submit this posting to see if any other responses have been posted.

It shocks and upsets me that even though many respondents to this thread have indicated their feeling of negativity not one -- NOT ONE -- GG has so far said anything even approaching "okay, the analogy wasn't totally a good one in the end, but the point is valid". I would wholeheartedly agree with that, TOTALLY. But not one GG has said anything like "I'm sorry if I/we made you feel that way." (Unless I have gravely misunderstood).And yet, you're speaking of empathy? Okay then, fair enough. Can you please (and I am genuinely asking with respect) understand why it doesn't go over well to compare the lifestyle of a CDer with a receptacle for human waste and a regression into immaturity?
Yes, there are some emotional similarities, but emotionalism can be a very general thing.

This analogy is like asking a black person not to be offended when you use an example involving the KKK because, well, the shock value is the same.

So what????

Even if it is -- and I even AGREE that it is -- that doesn't justify it or excuse you from taking responsbility when you go too far, does it?

And again, you're talking with us about empathy here.

It is my hope that our communication is hindered somewhat because it is online (where as in person we would be much better able to resolve this) and that's why we're not seeming to understand each other.

I guess another part of the reason I'm reacting to this post is that you, the wonderful GGs who are willing to have us, are talking this way and ostensibly not willing to admit that you might have gone too far. If you've even been dating crossdressres then how in the world can you not see that your actions were likely a bit over the line?? Again, I totally empathize with GGs who receive the nasty surprise of finding out they've been deceived. But does that make it allright for you to not make amends for your mistakes? No, I don't think it does. Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Truce? :)

I hope I haven't upset anyone and if I have, I do honestly apologize for that. I'm only trying to communicate and avoid anyone (even the wonderful GGs who will accept us) being less than informed.

Hugs,
Lisa

1. you are assuming that all AB's actually urinate and/or defacate in their diapers. This would be an incorrect assumption.

2. Do you also feel this repulsion for the elderly who must wear diapers? Trust me, I know from dealing with elderly parents, it IS an item of clothing for them.

3. I raised three sons, and not once did I think of a soiled diaper as something to be repulsed by. It is a natural function.

4. ABs should not be identified by only ONE article or aspect of their "different" lifestyle. Some don't even wear diapers, but do wear the other clothing of infants. This would be akin to identifying a crossdresser by their breast enhancers.

5. To a certain degree, MANY crossdressers do in fact participate in age regression~ Not to the point of infancy, but certainly to their early teens. And for the record, not all AB's regress to *infancy*. Some are "toddlers" and fully potty trained.

As one who understands the AB lifestyle, I personally feel no need to apologize as I think the analogy IS valid. I appreciate the time Kew took to investigate and even furnish links to information about AB's before making this comparison.

Quite frankly, I'm insulted FOR the AB's we have as members here that you indentify them with "receptacles for human waste".

I don't believe Kew went too far with this analogy, but I believe you have by degrading AB's.

For the record, neither myself or Trudi are in the AB lifestyle, but I know people who are. They are JUST as respectable as CDs are, and do not deserve to be referred to as "receptacles of human waste." And yes, before you protest, you *did* say this. Here is your comment: Can you please (and I am genuinely asking with respect) understand why it doesn't go over well to compare the lifestyle of a CDer with a receptacle for human waste and a regression into immaturity?

You seem to be more troubled by this thread than any of the other CDs who have responded. I wonder, did you actually read the links Kew provided? Do you really understand what it is that ABs do? Or is there some other chord this thread is striking for you?

Remember the three blind men who were asked to describe the elephant?

Lisa Maren

08-16-2006, 11:15 PM

Hi everyone

I have removed some of my words from my original post because they were most definitely over the line and quite insensitive to those who enjoy infantilism.

I wholeheartedly apologize for the offense; I take full responsibility.

To those affected members: I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable coming here and if I have then that is a grievous thing. Please know that I do welcome you here with open arms.

Hugs,
Lisa

Bernice

08-16-2006, 11:53 PM

Coming this late to the party as it were, I hesitated a long time before deciding to post. So much that is very worthwhile has already been said, along with much that was mostly counterproductive. I did not intend to take sides, because the topic was becoming heated, but I will now. Before I do so, please read my feeble point about my personal experience:

My mother has to wear diapers. It does affect my feelings. It is a medical condition (post stroke), though I don't believe Kew meant to limit her analogy to the wearing of diapers, but rather to the reaction to infantilism in general. What I know about infantilism is limited to one episode of "CSI Las Vegas" (hardly a reliable source). In a twisted sort of way, my mother also exhibits helplessness that is at least remotely comparable to infantilism. It is no laughing matter. However, I do not abandon my mother. Many people do abandon their parents - send them off to the nursing home to be ignored/forgotten. Before you begin bashing me, please, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone!

Now, as promised, I will take sides. I generally side with the GGs who posted here. Kew did make us uncomfortable. Bravo Kew! Good post! That's how we learn! (This assumes we are willing to learn). No analogy is perfect; This analogy did not need to be "perfect" to be useful. It was not about infantilism or dirty diapers, but about how we react and how we feel about a major unsettling surprise involving a trusted spouse.

I think I empathize with the lack of empathy perceived by the GGs in this thread.

Few people with wisdom try to answer a hypothetical question. How can I know exactly how I would feel until it happened for real? I can only hope that I would behave better than many who posted here in this thread. Would I have behaved the same when I was 30, or 20? I doubt it. That is part of maturing. Perhaps also it is a benefit of having had some diversity training.