Truth hurts??

[VtVicky]

People, sometimes it just doesn't work!

I know passing is not everyone's goal on this net, but really, sometimes some of us go way too far. I'm certainly not going to walk up to a perfect stranger and critisize. But do any of you have any suggestions or experiences that might shed some light on how to help a fellow CDer who is way off base?

(Confidential to the CDer in Hinsdale, NH. 4 inch platform slings, micro miniskirt, sleeve and shoulderless tube top, and evening make up just do not help you "pass" in a Wal Mart in rural NH in the middle of the afternoon.)

[tekla west]

What are you the fashion police? Live and let live? Accept if you want to be accepted?

For some people 'going to far' (which of course is purely subjective on your part) is where the fun is.

I would not wear that outfit on a bet, however I would rather go naked than give a penny to Wall-Mart either. Give the two, shopping Wall-Mart is a greater offense to me than the outfit.

[Billijo49504]

The best advice I can give you, is to look at the way the real GG are dressed at the supermarket. That is the real women. They aren't out to impress, just get dinner.So if you can replicate that look, you got it made...BJ

[tekla west]

Yes, but if you are going to the opera or a trendy nightclub the safeway look don't cut it either.

[christine55]

I sometimes shop in Walmart because it is cheap. I am aware that they underpay their help, buy from sweat shops, compete with small business etc. but then again I am underpaid and have trouble paying the bills from month to month. I would just love to go shopping in Union Square and buy some really nice stuff. Why not send me some money and I'll forgo going to Walmart.
Hugs, Christine

[trannie T]

Nobody wears platform slings in my local WallyMart. Everything else would pretty much blend in.

[GINA-CD]

well, in other cities you can find GGs wearing such outfit in WMart. sometimes they are very young, maybe that's why they do that....

[Kate Simmons]

I think Ericka has seen the light. Now that I'm comfortable with being a woman, think I'll become a F to M CD. Seems to make more sense somehow. Ericka

[Casey Morgan]

For some people 'going to far' (which of course is purely subjective on your part) is where the fun is.

Very true. Also, some people dress (and not just crossdress) to make others take notice. Sometimes they're trying to make a statement, other times they just want people to be exposed to something outside their everyday experiences, and sometimes they just want people to think.

It sounds like you aren't going to forget that person any time soon. Perhaps that was the entire point.

[EricaCD]

Given the amount of thread hijacking going on here, I half expect to see a post from D.B. Cooper pretty soon :)

Vicky- the general stream of replies is correct: you don't know that the CD in question was trying to pass. Many do not want to pass, and indeed have fun drawing attention to themselves.

For my part, I try to follow 3 rules in giving advice to other cds about appearance:

1. No constructive criticism unless specifically requested,
2. Never lie
3. Remember that 80+% of the time I wind up with very subpar results, and that it's part of the whole CD thing...

I have few enough CD friends as it is and want to keep the ones I have!

Erica

[Bernice]

But that's not what I came to talk about... I came to talk about the draft!
(From Alice's Restaraunt)

No, seriously, I think Erica's advice is spot on (as usual).


The best advice I can give you, is to look at the way the real GG are dressed at the supermarket. That is the real women. They aren't out to impress, just get dinner.So if you can replicate that look, you got it made...BJ

Actually, the other month I found myself staring at a very well-dressed dressed lady (GG on the arm of a gentleman) at my nearest supermarket. She was a "10" and "dressed to kill".

Karren Hutton: Love the math. I have my dad's Kueffel and Esser sliderule, and I know how to use it! But don't ask me about that abacus thing.

[Calliope]

For some people 'going to far' (which of course is purely subjective on your part) is where the fun is.


Praise to the 'vanguard' for pushing the lines we may later take for granted. There is a sense of operating without a net for all dressers, I think. It was some babe, 'stacked' to the max with a US Marine crew cut, that demonstrated the courage that set me free.



... shopping Wall-Mart is a greater offense to me than the outfit.


Dreary place. Only fun I ever had in one was the time the ceiling Muzak was playing 'American Woman' (original version) with the 'war machines / ghetto scenes' couplet, yum hmmm - I got a big grin out of that. The context was heavenly.

[Charleen]

Whether CD or GG, it's, " Hey, look at me!". As for WallyWorld, can't stand the place. Target has the same prices mostly, and doesn't have the trash atmosphere, and is exceedingly always cleaner. Love and xxxx, Lily

[Cristi]

(Confidential to the CDer in Hinsdale, NH. 4 inch platform slings, micro miniskirt, sleeve and shoulderless tube top, and evening make up just do not help you "pass" in a Wal Mart in rural NH in the middle of the afternoon.)

:happy: I live within a few miles of that Wal-mart and haven't seen that girl. I don't get it... my wife comes home often and tells me she has seen girls out and about but I've never run into anybody. Before replying, I had to check your description and make sure it wasn't me :) but I haven't visited that particular store dressed. Plus, I don't think I own anything that could be considered a 'micro miniskirt'.

I don't patronize Wal-Mart much, but there are just some things you can get there that aren't available anywhere else around here. In particular, I dislike plain cotton panties and prefer something in nylon or microfiber with a bit more lace or a pretty pattern... and so far Wal-mart is the only store within a few dozen miles that has anything to offer.

I'm not comfortable dressing that close to home, so when I get the urge to go out you'd be more likely to find me in the Greenfield/Northampton Ma. area.

Are you from the area, or just passing through? I KNOW that statistically there must be dozens of CDs around here, but I'll be darned if I can find any of them! I still feel like I must be the only one within 50 miles. :(

[Kate Simmons]

My one and ONLY suggestion is to be yourself. I personally do not dress to try to pass or impress anyone. When I am Ericka, that is simply who I am, no more, no less. Ericka Kay

[DonnaT]

(Confidential to the CDer in Hinsdale, NH. 4 inch platform slings, micro miniskirt, sleeve and shoulderless tube top, and evening make up just do not help you "pass" in a Wal Mart in rural NH in the middle of the afternoon.)

Who says she was trying to pass? A number of CDs dress to be noticed, the shock value gives them a thrill.

I wouldn't suggest offering unsolicited advice to another CD. Some can get mighty loud.

[sparks]

Who really cares if they went to far or not. Half the fun of shopping is elbowing the wife and saying "did you see that....." I mean well if ya scene half of my drab outfits I've worn in the past you may have thought those were "to far"
Really if the cd passes or not isn't a huge concern. If she/he is comfortable with the way they look than Bravo.

WallyWorld can really be fun. With the exception of trying to find what you are looking for and by the time you find a SO who actually knows it seems they send you to the other side of the Bloody Store.

That being said, live and let live.

[Ellaine]

Hi Vicky Shame on you ;)

Such statements say more about the judge that the judged!


Now, if there was five o clock shadow!!!:rolleyes:





:heehee:

[Deenise60]

If going out, dress classy not trashy. save the trashy look for home.

[Tracy_Victoria]

What are you the fashion police? Live and let live? Accept if you want to be accepted?


Unfortunately as much as every one should have a right to wear, what ever they want and how, I totally understand the post of VTVicky and more to the point understand what she is saying.

Thousands of TV and CD daily pass in to and out off a million peoples lifes, they dress fem, look right, blend in to the crowd, they shops, dine, go to the cinema, whatever, and with most people do not even noticing them. they do not draw attention to themselves, and if noted that there a CD, most just smile, or wink and move on.

However if a RG walks down the road looking trashy, shes going to stick out as well, not just a TV, and lets be honest most of us would actually want to call the fashion police, if we saw a 80 year old dressing like a teenager, with hose and bobby sox on! but add to that equation that it was not actually a woman but a man dressed up and it does nothing to help people like us at all! It's a visual double negative ie god look at that mutton dressed up as lamb, followed by oh, it a man as well!




For some people 'going to far' (which of course is purely subjective on your part) is where the fun is.


That may well be true, but everyone has a right to respectablity, and that includes shopers in wallmart, or people in parks with there children and grandchildren.

Passing out to me means just that, passing without drawing attention to yourself, and not raising the concerns of others to your not what you appear to be, if you look at the discription given by vicky, and actually think about it, is this sort of thing go for us girls as a whole, or bad. personally I think it bad, because we all ge labelled as the same.

I like at times to liken crossdressing and passing, to RG's/ Women wearing wigs, there are many woman out there that wear a wig, yet you only see the bad ones, never there really good ones. hence if you ask anybody who knows nothing about wigs, there major impression would be oh wigs, no you can tell it a wig a mile of, because they have only seen the poor ones. Sadly this is an impression we give as crossdressers, whilst the thousands that do pass and pass well, are never seen by the masses, and mingle daily in crowded places, only to be taken as female, it's that one that doesn't that is spotted and generally it tends to be that there dressed for the ball, when going to the mall!!

So surely the think is, if we really do want to go out dressed, we should blend in, not stand out. it's always worked for me, and i know it has worked for others.

just my :2c:

[Kandi]

My wife has repeatedly told me that I'm over dressed when I get the oppurtunity to go out when we are out of town. I cant pass even if i'm wearing sweats and a shirt so I might as well try to look my best and if that means heels stockings skirt and blouse wig and make up so be it. Like some have said we are in it for the thrill. Why not get the most bang for the buck?

[Yes I am]

If going out, dress classy not trashy. save the trashy look for home.


Never.

[Nigella]

What is overkill in the fashion stakes to some is nudity to others.

I "dress" 24/7, but it is for me and no-one else, unless Sandra wants a hot night (:devil: Sandra's comment). Because I live day to day as female, I try to blend in with my surroundings.

OTT dressing can take place anywhere, but who is to say what is OTT and what is not. Think before you critisise, I think the operative words are

Stones and Glass houses.

[Ginagirl]

You could always move to New Hampshire.......

"LIVE FREE OR DIE"

[Shelly Preston]

If you dress for the occasion be it shopping, cinema, a bar or the theater.

The more you look like you belong the more chance of passing

[Julogden]

People, sometimes it just doesn't work!

I know passing is not everyone's goal on this net, but really, sometimes some of us go way too far. I'm certainly not going to walk up to a perfect stranger and critisize. But do any of you have any suggestions or experiences that might shed some light on how to help a fellow CDer who is way off base?

(Confidential to the CDer in Hinsdale, NH. 4 inch platform slings, micro miniskirt, sleeve and shoulderless tube top, and evening make up just do not help you "pass" in a Wal Mart in rural NH in the middle of the afternoon.)

OK, I'll throw in my :2c: too, hopefully won't p*ss off someone again.

For the record, I'm basically in agreement with Vicky on this. That said, I don't criticize anyone for what they want to wear (well, I might if they actually ask for opinions) unless doing so puts them in danger, but I do cringe when I see a trashily dressed CD in public, my reasons follow. I'm not trying to start an argument, just expressing my opinions.

I think the reason that there's disagreement between us over this issue is because there are 2 basic divisions of crossdressers, and we're arguing apples and oranges.

One group dresses strictly because it's a sexual thrill. They range from not caring at all if they are dressed well or appropriately as long as it turns them on, to the other extreme of taking great care in their presentation, but from what I've seen, their tendency is to dress in a very overtly sexual manner with little regard for appearance and are very obviously men in a (very short) skirt. Regardless of how bad they look, they tend to be completely blind to the fact they look ridiculous (IF they look ridiculous, as a few youngsters can pull off the trashy look quite successfully).

Of course, a female dressed equally crazily will be talked about, giggled and stared at, as will the CD, but a male dressed the same way will possibly be confronted, and might be in physical danger.

The other group dresses to express femininity to one degree or another (I am in this group, just for the record), and usually attempt to dress appropriately for their age, size and situation they're in, with varying degrees of success. I've seen girls of this category dress very nicely, but again inappropriately, but usually not in the showy sexual manner of the first group except for early on in their dressing history.

The second group, as well as the more conservatively dressed members of the first group tend to be a bit exasperated with the girls who dress trashily because we are trying to present an image of respectability to the non-TG public and see the trash-dressing girls as being Jerry Springer fodder, if you will. (For non-USA members who don't know who Jerry Springer is: he's a talk-show host here who has the most sleezy, outrageous guests that he can find, including the occasional loony CD/TG/TS/DQ).

The trashy-dressing girls see us conservative girls as being prudes who need to lighten up, and probably feel that we're trying to deprive them of their liberties.

I don't feel that we want to deprive anyone of any rights, we just want to be treated with respect when/if we go out in public and feel that the non-TG public tends to judge us all by the most visible members of our group, i.e. the "4 inch platform slings, micro miniskirt, sleeve-and-shoulderless tube top, and evening make up" girls (usually combined with dark beard shadow and a big gut) group that Vicky mentioned.

Both sides have their points, so I think we all need to remember that we're all in this together and try not to fight among ourselves over what is really not that big a deal.

"Sexy" girls: don't get mad, we prudes and school marms just want you to look as good as you can and be safe, and feel free to ignore our well-intentioned advice!:love:

Carol:hugs:

[Teresa Amina]

Really if the cd passes or not isn't a huge concern. If she/he is comfortable with the way they look than Bravo.

A Sister came into the store I work at here in Northern Michigan a couple days back. Dressed in shorts, tennies and an unremarkable blouse she was the calmest, most confident and genuine dresser you could imagine. But she wouldn't be able to pass a burned out wreck by the side of the road! And didn't care apparently either. Congratulations and admirations if you're reading this:thumbsup: Hope you found that antenna you were looking for!

p.s.-no, I didn't reveal myself, too many ears around.

[GG Vanya]

Who really cares if they went to far or not. Half the fun of shopping is elbowing the wife and saying "did you see that....." I mean well if ya scene half of my drab outfits I've worn in the past you may have thought those were "to far"
Really if the cd passes or not isn't a huge concern. If she/he is comfortable with the way they look than Bravo.

WallyWorld can really be fun. With the exception of trying to find what you are looking for and by the time you find a SO who actually knows it seems they send you to the other side of the Bloody Store.

That being said, live and let live.


I agree!
Here in our town, there is a CD who has been "out" for *years*. His fetish seems to be the crinoline or "can can" slips. He literally layers them in all the colors of the rainbow~red, yellow, white, green, blue, etc. He doesn't shave his legs or wear hose and usually is wearing male tennis shoes. Most times he's wearing a wig, but sometimes not. He has a combination of Dolly Parton and Madonna boobs.

Does he pass? Absolutely not. Does he care? I don't think so.

For years he didn't own a car and walked every where he went. Now he has a car.

I see him often in Wal Mart. People whisper and nudge each other. He pays no mind, just opens his purse, whips out his ladies wallet and makes his purchases.

The last time I saw him, I was right behind him in the check out. I've always greeted him with a smile, and have often wanted to somehow tell him I respect his choice to live as he wishes and admire his courage, but I don't want to embarass him or come across as condescending.

It can't help but smile when I see him flounce into his car, with slips up in his face and fluttering out the window as he zooms off. :happy:

Hey, he's happy, and I'm happy for 'im!

[Amelie]

I am a punk/goth t-girl. I have never dressed consevatively in my life. Yet, I have never told others that they should dress my style or that they should not dress consevatively. Everyone dresses the way they feel comfortable. Yet many times the coservatively dressed cds tell the others that there is a time and place to dress wild. Or that others should dress to blend in or they might give conservatvely dressed cds a bad name.

Well too freakin bad. I will dress wild, i will never dress conservatively, and I will never ever, blend in with the crowd. I am not a robot and won't dress like a clone of every body else on the street.

You dress the way you want to, no one on this forum has the right to tell others how to dress, every one is different.

As Donna T said, some people don't dress to blend in and if this upsets some, well too bad.
Why is it always the conservatively dressed people of the world always telling others how they should dress? I never read on cd forums where a "trashy" dressed cd complains about how consevatively cds are dressed.

Dress the way you want and let others dress the way they want, they are not going to damage your image, hell, you firat got to get an image before someone damgaes it.

[Jasmine Ellis]

What do you class [ way to far ]

[Angie G]

I say dress and let dress, do what you want to do:hugs:
Angie G.

[ashleyinwpb]

I love wearing fem clothes but as a CD I have no desire to pass, I would love for my friends and family to accept the fem and male side as I combine them. Now I have an accepting girlfriend who helps me mix and max my male drab with my female clothes to mix them so I can have my soft fem side and tough masculine side together and balanced. How many others feel the same?

[Robin Leigh]

I admit I'd prefer if girls who need to dress in a very sexually provocative manner would save their outfits for venues where they will be most welcome. The girls who dress too trashy for the situation don't give TGs a good image to the public, but as Amelie mentions, we don't actually have much of a great image to start with. :p There will always be Cders that dress trashy, just as there will always be GGs who dress trashy. What will change societies' attitude to CDing is the general public interacting with a broader variety of us, so they begin to understand that the most visible CDers are just the tip of the iceberg.

Crossdressing is sexual for me, but not fetishistic. Women's clothing, makeup & jewellery are attractive, but the individual items don't actually turn me on, even when putting them on. Getting dressed up is exciting though, because I know that at the end of it I'll get to see Robin. :) Being completely dressed in feminine things makes me feel like I'm externalizing my internal femininity, which makes me feel much more feminine than when in drab, and that turns me on. So looking feminine makes me feel sexy, and feeling sexy generally makes me feel even more feminine. :heehee:

But I do try to dress as appropriately as I can when I go out (these days). I find walking around & passing to an extent (or at least not getting explicitly read very often) is very satisfying to my sense of femininity.

Robin