Today was my first day out en femme….and I found out I am 100% passable!!!!

[judyw9]

(This is a long post but I tried to make it concise and entertaining. I especially hope it is encouraging to those of you who have never been out en femme. This day was everything I dreamed it could be---and more! You don’t know what you are missing—you have to try it!)

I know I have to post some pics before you will totally believe this. The pics will be ready by end-of-week (I had a photo shoot and they are making a disc and sending it to me by mail). Here are the highlights:

- 2:30pm – 5:00pm: Had a professional TG make-over and photo-shoot done in Orlando
- Drove from Orlando to Tampa/Clearwater/St Petersburg Fl (wanted to go somewhere where no one knows me)
- 6:00pm: Stopped in Winter Haven for gas. Before getting gas, I pulled in a motel parking lot to touch up my make-up. A guy in his fifties came out of a room right by my car and proceeded to stare at me intently as he walked to his car. I felt sure he had made me so I drove away, but as I did, he gave me a huge smile and waved—i.e., he was actually checking me out!
- Went to the gas station, got gas, paid inside and bought a bottled water. No one really looked at me or acted like I was anything other than a typical female customer—interesting.
- 7:00pm: Arrived at my first destination, International Plaza Mall in Tampa. Great mall, on the same upscale model as the Millenia Mall here in Orlando. I parked by Neiman Marcus and walked in and a female SA approached me and said “Hello Ma’am, may I help you?” Needless to say I was startled. I walked out into the mall and no one was paying much attention to me. Some people stared right at me but I could tell that no one thought anything was strange about me. They were just seeing an attractive woman (I know I need the pics to prove it).
- I saw a Kiosk selling rings (I love rings). The female SA saw my watch and told me she loved it and wanted to know what kind it was (Kenneth Cole) My interaction with her was interesting because I used my feminine speaking voice that I have been practicing and, by her reaction, I realized my voice is 100% passable too. Also, I realized women treat you totally different when they think you are one of them—very cool.
- By this time I was brimming with confidence so I went into Dillards and used the Ladies restroom. People saw me walk in but no one acted like there was anything wrong. While I was in the stall, two women came in and one asked the other for a tampon. I got a kick out of hearing that!
- I walked into Nordstroms and saw a great pair of shoes. I walked up to a male SA and asked if they had them in size 10. He asked a female SA if she would “please help this lady” as he was busy. This interaction, as well as another one with a male SA in the Aldo shoe store, made me realize that men treat you differently when they think you are not one of them—really cool. The female SA brought out the shoes and I tried them on and they fit perfectly so I bought them. She asked me if I wanted to wear them now so I did, and for the rest of the night I wore them.
9:30pm: Drove to Georgie’s Alibi in St Petersburg to have dinner. This is a Gay bar. The food was really good but no t-girls, just gay men and two or three lesbians. The men totally and utterly ignored me so I took it as a sign that I was passing there as well.
11:00pm: Drove to my final destination, Z109 in Clearwater. This was the highlight of the day. t-girl central. About 60% of the customers were t-girls and may of them looked absolutely great! I had my picture taken about five times in there, supposedly to be posted on their web site. They had a lot of drag performers and it was very entertaining. In between performances, there was dancing.
-I met a GG in this club who was pretty drunk and was very curious about me. She was trying to determine if I was a t-girl or a GG. She asked me if I was gay, to which I replied, “I don’t know” She got a kick out of this response (as did I). She then reached out and squeezed my breasts! I was wearing an A-cup bra and I actually somewhat fill it out (I have a big chest from working out—I also tend to store body fat there). She looked frustrated like she still couldn’t tell so she said “Is that your real hair” and reached up and moved my bangs aside. She was then satisifed that I was not a GG since I was wearing a wig. She also told me that I smelled really good and wanted to know what kind of perfume I was wearing (Coco Mademoiselle Channel).
- I did some things in this club that could possibly get me banned from the forum, but I would love to share them via PM if anyone wants the juicy details (and they are very juicy!).
1:30am: Drove back to Orlando. I was stopped at a stop light and a female street person asked me for some spare change. I always give when directly asked so I gave her a dollar. She smiled and said “Thank you very much Ma’am.” This was the icing on the cake. I was glowing the entire drive home. I realized that I am 100% passable as a woman.

Thanks for reading. I had to get this down in writing while still fresh in my mind.

[Kimberly]

woo for you! :)

Try rounding down those percentages though. ;)
100%?
99% -- you never know what could happen. ("WARDROBE MALFUNCTION!")

[Kieron Andrew]

Glad you had fun, but sorry to burst your bubble but no one is 100% passable, you may go out on your second time and people clock you!

[Ginagirl]

Hi JUdy,
Good job getting out there and having fun and enjoying your day. Sounds great. Look forward to seeing your pictures. Maybe next time you will feel more confident about cruising closer to home?? Wouldn't it be great to go out in your own neighborhood and have no one recognize you? Sounds like you could do it.

So, quick question, how long did it take for you to get to this point and have you planned your next trip??

I'm happy for you. Congratulations Again.

[Sandra]

Glad you had fun, but sorry to burst your bubble but no one is 100% passable, you may go out on you second time and people clock you!


Have to say I agree with you on this Kieron. If you was 100% passable then why was the GG trying to determine if you was TG or GG?.

[judyw9]

woo for you! :)

Try rounding down those percentages though. ;)
100%?
99% -- you never know what could happen. ("WARDROBE MALFUNCTION!")


Glad you had fun, but sorry to burst your bubble but no one is 100% passable, you may go out on you second time and people clock you!


Have to say I agree with you on this Kieron. If you was 100% passable then why was the GG trying to determine if you was TG or GG?.

O.K, O.K., 100% may be hyperbole, but on that particular night, of all the people that saw me and interacted with me, not including the club, I really don’t think anyone made me. I was shocked by this, I really didn’t expect it.

In the club, for someone (the GG who felt my breasts) who is surrounded by t-girls to not be sure about me, was really shocking as well.


Hi JUdy,
Good job getting out there and having fun and enjoying your day. Sounds great. Look forward to seeing your pictures. Maybe next time you will feel more confident about cruising closer to home?? Wouldn't it be great to go out in your own neighborhood and have no one recognize you? Sounds like you could do it.

So, quick question, how long did it take for you to get to this point and have you planned your next trip??

I'm happy for you. Congratulations Again.

Thanks Gina. I am totally in the closet (for now) and I know a ton of people in Orlando. Also, my job is such that if anyone found out, it would mean real trouble. I’m fortunate that Orlando is close to several major cities (Tampa, Daytona, Jacksonville, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Miami) so I probably won’t go close to home for now.

Also, I meticulously planned and prepared for this outing for about three months by: losing 30 pounds—I am now 5’9” 140 pounds, 38-28-36; shaving all my upper body hair (I wore jeans so I didn’t shave my legs—that’s tough in Florida since we wear shorts almost year-round and I have very hairy legs); buying a nice female wardrobe from scratch—I spent $2 thousand and it took a ton of time; having my eyebrows done; growing out my nails to the point where I just had them polished and they look great.

[Melora]

Wow.. Sounds like a Great night..:)

[ToyGirl]

not even GG's are 100% passable , people are paranoid these days :p

Ive been getting served by my local gas station for ten years by the same guy. Through my whole transition , he call's me mam and i know for a fact he remembers me as that boy with the shaved head.

Grats though glad you had a good time and had some fun , and hope you continue to do so :thumbsup:

[Jasmine Ellis]

congratuletions sounds you had a great time are you going to go out again with pictures next time

[judyw9]

congratuletions sounds you had a great time are you going to go out again with pictures next time

Definitely going out again. Such a great experience. I felt like I was transformed into another person, 15 years younger and female. It was soooo cool!

I have pictures of this time which I'll post by end-of week.

[Tiffany 1953]

What a super time out. Glad for you Tiffany

[lisa92268]

Either way, Judy, it sounds like you had an awesome day! What were you wearing? This always helps in being passable.

Lisa

[Tamara Croft]

Pictures say a thousand words...... so, let's see if you really are 100% passable ;)

[BeckyCath]

Aww, aren't we all cynical on here?

I'm not 100% passable, and i know i'm not invincible, but if others want to say they're 100% passable, let them say it.

Those of us who have had the hard knocks, and know the reality might have forgotten the euphoria of the first time out.

I'd much rather hear encouraging posts such as these, that make others want to brave the world, than hearing the "OMG, it was awful, i got clocked a thousand times" type of posts.

Glad you had a ball Judy, glad you found it to be positive and enjoyable, rather than negative and scary.

Rebecca

[JenniferMint]

not even GG's are 100% passable , people are paranoid these days

I knew a GG who was over 6-feet tall. People thought she was a man sometimes!

[judyw9]

Either way, Judy, it sounds like you had an awesome day! What were you wearing? This always helps in being passable.

Lisa

I was wearing a pair of Express X2 low cut jeans (0 long), a Victoria’s Secret mid-riff spaghetti strap top (medium), a shirt that doubled for a jacket that I got at Nordstroms (medium), a 36a Victoria's secret strapless bra (all me--no padding or breast forms) 4 inch heels with rounded toe (size 10)—I am only 5’9’’ so I felt I could get away with the higher heels, and I was carrying a small Brahmin purse. Everything was black except the jeans. My goal was to look as passable as possible.


Pictures say a thousand words...... so, let's see if you really are 100% passable ;)

Pics are coming by end-of-week. I saw them but only through the small camera window. They looked really good though…we’ll see…


Aww, aren't we all cynical on here?

I'd much rather hear encouraging posts such as these, that make others want to brave the world, than hearing the "OMG, it was awful, i got clocked a thousand times" type of posts.

Glad you had a ball Judy, glad you found it to be positive and enjoyable, rather than negative and scary.

Rebecca

This is exactly how I meant the post to come across, as an encouragement. I had high hopes for my first time out and they were all exceeded. I felt like I was 15 years younger and female for the day. Isn’t that what Ponce De Leon and the search for the fountain of youth was all about (well, maybe not the female part).

[Kieron Andrew]

Judy when i posted my first post to you on this thread i was not being neither cynical or negative, but being honest!, you can go out a thousand times and probably not get read, but there is always gonna be that one time that throws you completely off guard where someone reads you!, people tell me i look like a guy all the time but i do get read, it used to bother me, but now its their problem not mine!, all i was saying basically was dont be under the illusion you will pass all the time, because we all get it wrong sometimes, be it make-up, style of dress, or just having a bad day with our mannerism that give off the wrong signal, the thing is not to let it get to you when you have these off days and have the greatest of fun on the good days

[judyw9]

Judy when i posted my first post to you on this thread i was not being neither cynical or negative, but being honest!, you can go out a thousand times and probably not get read, but there is always gonna be that one time that throws you completely off guard where someone reads you!, people tell me i look like a guy all the time but i do get read, it used to bother me, but now its their problem not mine!, all i was saying basically was dont be under the illusion you will pass all the time, because we all get it wrong sometimes, be it make-up, style of dress, or just having a bad day with our mannerism that give off the wrong signal, the thing is not to let it get to you when you have these off days and have the greatest of fun on the good days

No worries Kieron. Thanks the sage advice. I'm new to the going out en femme thing so I appreciate a more seasoned perspective. I am just so pleased that yesterday went so well.

[Kristen Kelly]

Glad you had a great time, when you get past the point of watching you "clocks" you and notice that you are being accepted by thoses that even do, you will enjoy yourself enven more. That is the reason you got out in the first place.

[Tamara Croft]

I think these days, you get read more often than you think. However, society is getting used to it and I think a lot just don't care anymore ;)

I will be looking forward to the pictures :bs:

[Kieron Andrew]

I will be looking forward to the pictures :bs:what she said lol

[Jenna1561]

Those Express jeans are very nice. I just yesterday bought my 16 year old daughter two pair, size 4 long. She absolutely loves them.

I'm happy to hear you had so much fun. Keep us posted on your next adventure.


Jenna

[Rachel Morley]

Wow! Let me see if I get this right:

You planned this outing for 3 months, you lost 30 pounds, you spend $2000 in feminine preparations, you had a professonal make over, bought gas and water, went shopping, interacted with both female and male SA's, neither of who were able to detect you because your voice is 100% passable as are your looks. You used the ladies restrooms, you bought shoes, you went out to dinner at a gay bar, you went to a TG club and had your picture taken for their website, and finally hooked up with a GG and did some things in the club that would get you banned if you told us here.

Holy cow! it sounds like you achived all the milestones in one afternoon/evening!
I can't wait for the pictures :D

Now I know what I have written sounds a little skeptical but I'm really happy you had a great time. I know that if you look good people never comment, and in fact, they almost always treat you as the gender you present. Does that make you 100% passable?...it sure feels like it.

Anyway, well done it takes courage to go out and do all those things, I could never do them all in one day.

[Ashley in Virginia]

Wow. I cant believe how gullible some of ya'll are. Angel Darling pointed out most of the obvious, but as the replies come the crap gets deeper.

Take his "38-28-36" shape. Nice hips for a guy. But wait, according to every size chart I have every seen, that aint gonna get you into a size "0 long" jean any day of the week.

Fantasy is nice, but being able to tell the difference is better.

[Gemma Rhodes]

:yt:

[tekla west]

"Didn't make you"??? or didn't care. More likely the second.

The average 'man on the street' is worried about losing his job which doesn't pay enough anyway and of the four calls waiting at home on his answering machine three are from bill collectors, his 16 year old daughter is dating a 20 year old guy who looks like Marilyn Manson while his 18 year old son has all the motivation of a rock and will be living at home ten years from now too and the 13 year old needs braces, which he can't afford, god only knows what the wife is doing, but it sure ain't him and you think he worries about you?

[GG Vanya]

And now dear Judy has a post asking how to get the Coco scent off as she's having dinner with her Mother In Law tonight? hmmmm


Wow. I cant believe how gullible some of ya'll are. Angel Darling pointed out most of the obvious, but as the replies come the crap gets deeper.

Take his "38-28-36" shape. Nice hips for a guy. But wait, according to every size chart I have every seen, that aint gonna get you into a size "0 long" jean any day of the week.

Fantasy is nice, but being able to tell the difference is better.


Exxxxxactly, you beat me to it pointing out this obvious faux pas! LOL


-I met a GG in this club who was pretty drunk and was very curious about me. She was trying to determine if I was a t-girl or a GG. She asked me if I was gay, to which I replied, “I don’t know” She got a kick out of this response (as did I). She then reached out and squeezed my breasts! I was wearing an A-cup bra and I actually somewhat fill it out (I have a big chest from working out—I also tend to store body fat there). She looked frustrated like she still couldn’t tell so she said “Is that your real hair” and reached up and moved my bangs aside. She was then satisifed that I was not a GG since I was wearing a wig. She also told me that I smelled really good and wanted to know what kind of perfume I was wearing (Coco Mademoiselle Channel).
- I did some things in this club that could possibly get me banned from the forum, but I would love to share them via PM if anyone wants the juicy details (and they are very juicy!).[/B]

Thanks for reading. I had to get this down in writing while still fresh in my

mind.

This is a post from the "status" thread by you:

I'm in the first category and it's not a great place to be... If I were single, I'd be totally out and about. The only thing holding me back is my relationship with my wife and daughter...

My question is: Were they on your mind while you were at Z109 and performing the "juicy" stuff?

BTW, I'm from St. Pete. I know the areas you are speaking of.

Tsk Tsk

[victoriapink]

There's nothing more deceiving and misterious than self-perception. It can work for or against you. Say a thousand people tell you you look like Gloria Stephan, and one that you looked exactly like Stephanie Seymour. If your brain chemicals are positive you go around believing the Stpeh. Seymour thing, and feeling great.
SO I wouldn't rely on my own opinion.
In conclusion: If you believe it and feel it, it is. End of discussion.
Victoria Pink
Official Mascot of the 2006 Self-Perception Olympics.

[Lisa Renee]

As I do go out enfemme a lot, I do know how nice it is to be out that way. I do also know that I may get read, but I don't really care. Most of the time I am addressed as Ma"am, and don't get a second look. And I do get checked out by guys. I know that how you act and feel when dressed will come across to others. If you feel and act like you belong in the clothes you are wearing others will percieve you that way. Most people take you for what they see, unless something is very wrong. So those of you that go out enfemme have fun.

[judyw9]

Wow! Let me see if I get this right:

Anyway, well done it takes courage to go out and do all those things, I could never do them all in one day.

I am totally in the closet so I don't have the opportunity of spending a lot of time dressed. I had to do everything in a short time horizon or not do it at all. It did take a ton of planning to do that much that quickly but, in extremis, you’d be surprised at how much you can get done in one day.



Take his "38-28-36" shape. Nice hips for a guy. But wait, according to every size chart I have every seen, that aint gonna get you into a size "0 long" jean any day of the week.


Ashley and GG Vanya, you can’t go by a women’s size chart for a male body. If you do, you would buy a size 2 or a size 4 since the chart would tell you 36 inch hips = size 2 and 28 inch waist = size 4. I made that mistake and neither fit correctly. This is because a women has a much different taper from waist to hips than a man. You are also forgetting about the stretch factor. Young girls always buy jeans a size or two too small so they will stretch to fit them perfectly.


This is a post from the "status" thread by you:

I'm in the first category and it's not a great place to be... If I were single, I'd be totally out and about. The only thing holding me back is my relationship with my wife and daughter...

My question is: Were they on your mind while you were at Z109 and performing the "juicy" stuff?

BTW, I'm from St. Pete. I know the areas you are speaking of.

Tsk Tsk

O.K., I totally own that criticism. To be frank, I am having a mid-life crisis. I’ve been repressing these desires for years and years and they just had to find an outlet. Ostensibly, I don’t believe in anything I did yesterday, but yet I still did it and I’ll have to accept any repercussions …

[Sally24]

Well Judy, you had a big day! Glad you had a great time, just be careful you don't burn yourself out going too fast. I try to do 1 or 2 firsts on each vacation. That seems to be more than enough for me, and keeps the stress level low. You seem to be paying good attention to detail and trying to blend-in and be reasonable. At your height you should have no problem wearing what you want. Those of us at 6' have to stay with the low heels unless going to a TG place for the evening.

The thrill is always quite uplifting, just don't expect it to always be as great as the first time you do something. It settles down a little as time goes on, but is still super!

I'd suggest keeping a journal of your trips, that's what I do. Sit down the next day and write everything down that you remember. It really helps in the long run to keep that memory and thrill alive.

Good Luck, may you have many more days like this.

Sally

[judyw9]

I try to do 1 or 2 firsts on each vacation.
Sally

Thanks Sally! I love that term vacation! That is exactly what it was like! A vacation from my stressful, responsible, hectic, frantic, father figure, problem solver, corporate go-getter, fat-cat, landlord, market maven.....well you get the idea...life. I was just an attractive young woman for a day. I can't think of a better vacation, and I'll surely be more taking such vacations but I will go slower for sure. I am burned out and I did take a lot of time out from my resposibilites to accomplish that much that quickly. I need to catch up.

[Jodi]

Let me add to the skepticism. So the jeans are from Express? Express sells junior sizes. Junior sizes are odd numbers. A zero size is missys size. Remember, this is the guy who worked at The Limited and New York & Co. I know their sizing. The measurements listed would fit a size 6 or 8. Also, Any of us could spend $2000 and get the look, but you just don't learn the deportment and mannerisms overnight to be 100% passable. I work diligently on my body language, voice, mannerisms, and my appearance, and I get read at least once everytime I go out.

Jodi

[tekla west]

yeah, a size 0 is what? A thinner version of Kate Moss. Nancy Regan was a prefect size 2 as I recall. A 28 inch waist is closer to a 6-8 I would think. I think a size 0 is closer to a 22-24 inch waist.

[judyw9]

Let me add to the skepticism. So the jeans are from Express? Express sells junior sizes. Junior sizes are odd numbers. A zero size is missys size. Remember, this is the guy who worked at The Limited and New York & Co. I know their sizing. The measurements listed would fit a size 6 or 8. Also, Any of us could spend $2000 and get the look, but you just don't learn the deportment and mannerisms overnight to be 100% passable. I work diligently on my body language, voice, mannerisms, and my appearance, and I get read at least once everytime I go out.

Jodi

Hi Jodi:
Express here in Florida sells the X2 jeans and they come in even sizes, 0,2,4,6, etc.. I know because I own them in size 0,2, and 4 (the size 0 pair fit the best). I really have no reason to lie about this. I use this forum as a sounding board for a new hobby for me (if I can call it that) to get advice and learn from others experiences. If I were untruthful, it would be counter-productive to those goals. I really don't know what else I can say.

I was as surprised as anyone at how passable I was. I certainly didn't expect it, and really can't explain it, but I can honestly say that if anyone read me I certainly couldn't tell, and I was really looking carefully for any sign of it.

[GG Vanya]

Let me add to the skepticism. So the jeans are from Express? Express sells junior sizes. Junior sizes are odd numbers. A zero size is missys size. Remember, this is the guy who worked at The Limited and New York & Co. I know their sizing. The measurements listed would fit a size 6 or 8. Also, Any of us could spend $2000 and get the look, but you just don't learn the deportment and mannerisms overnight to be 100% passable. I work diligently on my body language, voice, mannerisms, and my appearance, and I get read at least once everytime I go out.

Jodi

Now there ya go! busssssted! :D Insider knowledge and measurements don't lie, no matter if it's a male or female body.

Hell, if I wanted to waste 2K, I could probably pass as Julia Roberts.

And, while you "may" have passed as a GG, I dare say those in Z109 with whom you participated in your "juicy" little sordid soiree would not agree that you passed as a lady.

While I totally understand a mid life crisis (hell I went through one of my own) I do not understand endangering the health and emotional well being of your daughter and the woman you vowed to honor.

Going out en femme I congratulate, but the juicy details I can live without. I have never understood cheating. (and I'm assuming the "juicy" adjective would place your activities in that category) As you've just demonstrated, it's no challenge, so what was proven, other than that you're an easy mark?

[Calliope]

If you believe it and feel it, it is.

Agreed. It's not a contest, no 'jealousy' or skepticism is warranted. I believe the person to please is oneself. But, hey, getting treated with respect knows no gender lines. Everybody's in show biz.

... or something like that.

[Jenna1561]

FYI

Just a point of clarification. Express may sell junior sizes but they also sell misses sizes. I was just in one of their stores in Norman, OK on Saturday (8/12) and bought my 16 year old daughter 2 pair of size 4 long Express jeans.

So, Express does indeed sell Misses sizes. Now, my daughter has a 28 inch waist but very muscular thighs (high school volleyball and track) and the size 4 fit very well in the thigh/hips and almost perfect in the waist, with just a little room to spare.


Love,

Jenna

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Ashley and GG Vanya, you can’t go by a women’s size chart for a male body. If you do, you would buy a size 2 or a size 4 since the chart would tell you 36 inch hips = size 2 and 28 inch waist = size 4. I made that mistake and neither fit correctly. This is because a women has a much different taper from waist to hips than a man. You are also forgetting about the stretch factor. Young girls always buy jeans a size or two too small so they will stretch to fit them perfectly.

Oh pleassseeee.... Plenty of us have bought women's clothing for a male body, so we know all about sizing differences. And I've got a GW friend who's an actual size 0. You'd need to have a 22-24 inch waist to fit those jeans, and stretch or no stretch, ain't no way a 28 inch waist is gonna fit.

BTW, if you're so terrified of being outed, why would you have your picture taken en femme and posted to the club's website?

But your post was entertaining....

[sterling12]

Ladies:

I was in The Z Saturday Night. Went there with some of my friends after our Group meeting. I don't remember meeting Judy but we did have lots and lots of new gurl's in the place last night.

The owner has sold the Z to a new person and it was kind of a going away party. We had Gurl's from all over the State. The way I understand it, the Z will be closed for 2 weeks of Renovations and then reopen. I would guess we had at least 70 or 80 gurl's in the just the backroom alone.

I can say that I did see several person's who were very feminine and would certainly make the average person wonder, especially the ones who have already gotten "augmentations" done to their chest area. We also had a lot of GGs running around the place and I can kind of understand if one of them was curious as to just "who was whom". I think you all should give Judy the benefit of the doubt. Very unusual things often do happen at the Z and we have a large population of TS Persons in our area who are out shopping and doing things in public. Even if someone is "read" around here, I suspect it's often ignored

By the way, nobody has said so but I think a big "Thank you" for Amber is appropriate. During her tenure, She has run The Z very well indeed! I think that we CD and TG folk in Florida will miss her and a wonderful club.

Sure hope the new ownership will be just as accepting of all of us and we here in The Tampa Area can continue to gloat just a bit about our "special place".

Peace and Love Joanie

[ToyGirl]

im 34.5-27-34 , and size 0 is pretty tight on me.

38-28-36 is not a male body shape.

[GypsyKaren]

You really can't debate the size issue because they're all over the map...I'm usually a 12, but I've got some 9's and in Levi's I'm a 6. But a size 0? That's about a 10" waist, when I see those in the stores I feel like waiting for someone to look at them so I can go buy the poor dears a sandwhich or something.

What got me was the part about some stranger just coming up and grabbing her boobs, sorry, I don't think so. And if she was wondering about whether it was a wig or not, she'd a yanked it off instead of just playing with the bangs.

But who knows, who cares, anything is possible. It's just that it all seems to be a bit much, I mean the story just keeps growing and getting better and better, like most of the fake stuff I see here all the time. But hey, if you can fool some cracked out panhandler, you must be all right. I'll be looking forward to the pics...

Karen

[judyw9]

38-28-36 is not a male body shape.

Guess that's why my drab clothes look so absurd now. My wife is apoplectic over it!!!

[Deidra Cowen]

The pictures are awesome...you proved your case about being passable. I do think, please don't be insulted, you are mistaken or have some crazy label on the size zero jeans...LOL. My ex wife was a zero at one point she was 5'6" and wieghed 103 pounds. Thats was a 0 at the limited and some other stores. I used to buy cloths for her! So I know a bit. :tongueout

We have a couple of Tgirls in atlanta Cindy for example she wieghs about the same as you and da same height and has to be close on measurements. She is a 6. I have been at the same house where she, me and other trannies dressed so I see sizes, bodies and all that while we get ready. (And no naughty stuff! we are all just friends!).

Oh well...makes for a lively and fun discussion which you kicked off here! Those are great pics in the other thread and I am sure you are having a chuckle about it...but way to put up and not shut up sweetie! :p

[carolinewalker_2000]

Hi Judy,

Don't worry about the percentages quoted by some as to how well we pass as GG's; you did it and GREAT FOR YOU!!!

You clearly had a whale of a time; keep up the good work,

yours - enviously!


Caroline

[GG Vanya]

The pictures are awesome...you proved your case about being passable. I do think, please don't be insulted, you are mistaken or have some crazy label on the size zero jeans...LOL. My ex wife was a zero at one point she was 5'6" and wieghed 103 pounds. Thats was a 0 at the limited and some other stores. I used to buy cloths for her! So I know a bit. :tongueout

We have a couple of Tgirls in atlanta Cindy for example she wieghs about the same as you and da same height and has to be close on measurements. She is a 6. I have been at the same house where she, me and other trannies dressed so I see sizes, bodies and all that while we get ready. (And no naughty stuff! we are all just friends!).

Oh well...makes for a lively and fun discussion which you kicked off here! Those are great pics in the other thread and I am sure you are having a chuckle about it...but way to put up and not shut up sweetie! :p

I have to agree with Diedra here. Trudi is the same height (5'9") and weight
(140) and there's no way she can wear size zero, nor would she need a long length. I've said many times she's so skinny she has to stand twice to make a shadow.

My sister is 5'10" and she doesn't wear longs either.

As for your passability, after seeing your pictures:
The hands are a dead giveaway. Sure, on the close up shots, the photographer either liberally applied makeup or did a nice air brush job. But if you look at the pictures with your hands on your hips, the prominent veins are definitely male. (This is in no way meant to be offensive~Trudi has the exact same problems with her hands.)

You are more fortunate, in that your adam's apple isn't as prominent as some, but it's still there, and another giveaway. Your hips would be more convincing if you wore padding. That's definitely a male butt.

I dunno who did your shoot, but surely they recognized that all your poses were "stiff" appearing? He or she should have taken the time for you to get more relaxed.

I don't find you to be 100% passable, and I've not heard your voice. But....
is it all ABOUT passing? Or is it more about having the time to present yourself outwardly as you feel inwardly?

And yes, I realize my critique is based on a "trained eye". To the uneducated, you quite possibly could pass, but I wouldn't bet on the 100%

[judyw9]

As for your passability, after seeing your pictures:
The hands are a dead giveaway. Sure, on the close up shots, the photographer either liberally applied makeup or did a nice air brush job. But if you look at the pictures with your hands on your hips, the prominent veins are definitely male. (This is in no way meant to be offensive~Trudi has the exact same problems with her hands.)


Hi Vanya, no make-up or airbrushing on my hands. The veins are more or less prominent depending on lighting. Sometimes they are barely noticeable. Actually, my hands are smaller than my wife's hands (she says I have "faggot hands"--ain't she darling!) Also, women have told me in the past that I have nice hands.The veins popping are a combined result of working out and very low body fat. Nothing I can do about that. However, I did try on rings for about 15 minutes on the mall and the nice young girl that helped me certainly didn't seem to think my hands were unusual. I've seen GGs with veins like mine, especially the ones that work out.

Judy

[alesha_cd]

It's always a good feeling when no one reads you. Stinks when they do. Sometimes I can go out and not get read for several hours then BAM, someone reads me. :sad:

Sounds like you had a great time!

[sky0629]

Glad you had a great time. sure it was a blast, can't wait to see your pic's i'll bet your fine as h#@*. keep us posted.
sky:hugs:

[judyw9]

Glad you had a great time. sure it was a blast, can't wait to see your pic's i'll bet your fine as h#@*. keep us posted.
sky:hugs:
Hi Sky:
Pics are here:
http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37675

[Helen in OK]

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I have been in the process of losing weight with the South Beach Diet (60+ lbs so far, in almost 3 years), and I needed to get a new pair of levi's in Dec 2004. I used to wear 38 inch waist, and so I thought I would try 36 inch waist, they were baggy at the waist. Tried a pair of 34's and they fit like a glove. Boy was I feeling good. Dropped 4 inches on my waist, ha, wrong, Levi Strauss, has resized their jeans. I have several old 36 inch waist pants and shorts and they fit just like my 34 inch waist pants. This could also be happening here, since many Americans are getting larger, the clothing manfuacturers are putting smaller numbers on larger clothes. I think it makes some people feel good that they can put on all of this weight and still get into that small size.

judyw9, it doesn't matter what size you wear, enjoy life.

Helen in OK

[stlthygrrl]

Hi,

It looks and sounds like Judy had a great time, and we all should be happy for her. Whether or not you feel she is embellishing the truth a little or not really isn't the point. Does that really offend you enough to feel it's necessary to try to "take her down a few notches", and is it really fair to rain on her parade? We're all better than that.

Whether a size 0, a size 6 or a size 10, what does it really matter??? Size or looks are only part of passing. Equally important is your comportment, the way you carry yourself and the confidence you exude not only in being female but being YOU. It's an ongoing challenge to unlearn all that has come so naturally in living in a man's world, so, yes, this takes time and practice, but, above all else, I really believe passing is a state of mind. Are all genetic women small, petite, slender, or beautiful? Hmmm... don't think so. I've seen plenty of tall women, plenty of "big" women, plenty of not-so attractive women and frankly my share of women who look more manly than some of the guys I know, but these characteristics alone did not give me any reason to believe that they were anything but the women they are. Sure, someone will read you from time to time -- less for some of us, more for others of us -- but, is that really such a big deal? Most of the time, it's not a big deal to the person who's read you and it's only as much a problem as you want to make it.

Are we enjoying life and having a good time being the people we want to be? Isn't that what's really important??? Keep it light, stop the cat-fighting and stop sweating the small stuff. Life's too short to be miserable, and, believe me, I know. After enduring an ugly, prolonged two year divorce with my ex-wife, I'm simply happy to be me:happy:

Ashleigh

[Helena Constantini]

Cordial congratulations

[EricaCD]

I have to agree with stlthygrrl above. This may be the most disappointing, discouraging thread I have ever seen at this forum (and that's really saying something).

When I first saw Judy's post on Sunday, I was similarly skeptical of such an "extreme" tale. However, she had promised photos, so I decided to hold my tongue until we saw proof. Either she would post nothing (and we would know she was not for real) or we'd have a clearer picture as to how delusional she might be.

A couple of the other girls here whiled away the time noting some of the apparent inconsistencies in Judy's story. OK: not the nicest thing (and certainly not much of a way to welcome a relatively new member, girls), but so far within the bounds of fair conduct.

I will note that Judy put up with an increasingly offensive degree of inquisition with invariably good spirits, and graciously conceded some minor exaggerations in her original post. By the way, written less than 24 hours after an (apparently) revolutionary experience, SO WHAT if her story does not stand up to KGB-eqsue scrutiny?

Judy came throught and posted photos! Let's not kid ourselves, she looks great. JUDY: YOU LOOK ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL! I'm thrilled that you were able to prove my initial (unvoiced) suspicions wrong.

So, she wasn't lying about looking good. And lets not kid ourselves: that's what caused the outpouring of sarcasm and scorn--not her jeans size. And so what does she get? All the early posters coming back and admitting their skepticism was unfounded? A couple, yes, followed by a withering, nitpicking criticism from Vanya. Way to go. Way to support a new member. Way to support the crossdressing community generally. I'm delighted you were able to indulge your insistence that you MUST be right. And if your micro-criticism embarrassed or depressed another member (who, by the way, never asked for this kind of scrutiny), well now that's just a tiny price to pay, isn't it?

Erica

PS: Moderators can feel free to delete this post, or ban me, or whatever. Right now I am embarrassed to be a member of this community. And if this really is the direction in which this forum is heading, I want no part of it.

[Lisa Golightly]

Judy, you look great and I hope you have a lot of fun on your future outings. :)

[fiona_libby]

Judy

Your efforts is a source of hope to me as I dream of being acceptable to my family and those in my life before I even contemplate taking on the rest of the world as you have.

Lots of love

Fiona

[Kandi]

I can pass every time from a hundred yards. Unless its daytime.

Actually from some one who knows she doesn't pass It is great you had such a wonderful sustained excursion. So many thing to do and places to go. I agree a well planned trip can make or break it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Erica - i agree with you 100%

cmon girls this is a support forum!!! lets support each other!!

i thnk what judy did was special, amazing and fun and exciting and her posts about it were detailed and interesting!

and her pics!!!! wow ...they were spectacular!!! especially for someone who is finally starting to get into it

why would we want to discourage anyone from dressing and enjoying her dressing and posting her "adventures"??

in defense, there was a poster a week ago(souperman) who faked us all out with tall tales and great pictures that turned out to be stolen from someone else!!!!! maybe the BS detectors were tuned too high..

[GG Vanya]

A couple of the other girls here whiled away the time noting some of the apparent inconsistencies in Judy's story. OK: not the nicest thing (and certainly not much of a way to welcome a relatively new member, girls), but so far within the bounds of fair conduct.

So, she wasn't lying about looking good. And lets not kid ourselves: that's what caused the outpouring of sarcasm and scorn--not her jeans size.

I don't recall inviting you into my head, thereby knowing my thoughts and my intentions.

You would be absolutely incorrect, as far as *I* am concerned in this judgemental assumption.

MY scorn, I'll freely admit, was the fact that she *bragged* about her indiscretions after making it a known fact that she's married. And so what does she get? All the early posters coming back and admitting their skepticism was unfounded? A couple, yes, followed by a withering, nitpicking criticism from Vanya. Way to go. Way to support a new member. Way to support the crossdressing community generally. I'm delighted you were able to indulge your insistence that you MUST be right. And if your micro-criticism embarrassed or depressed another member (who, by the way, never asked for this kind of scrutiny), well now that's just a tiny price to pay, isn't it?

Again, your being judgemental is ok but mine is not? Boastfully declaring one's self to be 100% PASSABLE is an open invitation for critique. I also stated that my critique was based on a "trained eye", and she quite possibly would pass to the general public.

I stand by EVERY word I typed, and I also have not changed my opinion as relates to the "juicy details" she felt would get her banned from this forum.
MY opinion is not invalidated by YOURS.

Erica

PS: Moderators can feel free to delete this post, or ban me, or whatever. Right now I am embarrassed to be a member of this community. And if this really is the direction in which this forum is heading, I want no part of it.

It is my personal opinion that "well meaning" compliments can lead to a CD getting hurt. If I oooh'd and ahhhh'd and declared someone to be 100% passable and bolstered their courage, they might well take risks in areas that CD's normally don't go. I'm not willing to have that on my conscience.

Besides, let's be realistic, the only way you can be 100% passable is if you can change your DNA. I've not seen headlines declaring this scientific breakthrough yet, have you?

If one person (or 2, or 3) stating their honest opinions can embarass you to this degree, I'll quote what Trudi once said here:

Perhaps you shouldn't go out in public alone, you might get hurt out there~it's a big ole world with lots of people and just as many opinions.

In closing, I have a question:

Isn't "talking down to the little woman" a distinctively male trait?

[GG Vanya]

Erica - i agree with you 100%

cmon girls this is a support forum!!! lets support each other!!

i thnk what judy did was special, amazing and fun and exciting and her posts about it were detailed and interesting!

and her pics!!!! wow ...they were spectacular!!! especially for someone who is finally starting to get into it

why would we want to discourage anyone from dressing and enjoying her dressing and posting her "adventures"??
in defense, there was a poster a week ago(souperman) who faked us all out with tall tales and great pictures that turned out to be stolen from someone else!!!!! maybe the BS detectors were tuned too high..

I in no way attempted to discourage this person from dressing or going out. Have you read the "juicy details"? If you had, you just might feel different about the encouragement of the "adventures"~assuming you feel as I do about marriage and vows.

[Nike]

Judy has a very feminine appearance.

That being said many times over the years I have been told that I can "pass" easily (although not as well as I age). I have ALWAYS known better. I appreciated the compliments of other gyrls, (most of whom were aware that they could not pass) and understood that it was meant to be positive and encouraging. I was then and am still aware that by blindly believing the "good press" isn't always a good thing. I know that I can pass after dark and at a distance if I don't speak. (most of us can)

Other than that, "passing" has exactly what value?

For all the rhetoric about how unfair it is that men can't wear womens clothes in public, we seem to encourage that predjudice by believing that we MUST "pass" to go out. Ironic how we reinforce the ol' double standard, isn't it? I figured then, a decade and a half ago, that I was out for me. I tried to blend in so as not to be offensive (much as when EnDrab), rather than to convince others I was what I am not.

Most of us dress because it is part of who we are. Passable or not, we are worthy beings. Worthy of love, friendship, joy, laughter and equally important honesty. Over the years I have always appreciated the "sisters" and GG's who had more confidence in me than I had in myself. I especially appreciated those with the courage of their convictions who could give me an honest assessment, absent of malice, regardless of whether was being said was what I WANTED to hear or not.

I don't read the "criticisms" in this thread as synical, rather I see them as cautionary.

Photos are often complimentary, they certainly can be for me. The reality of arms with webs of veins on display, the lack of feminine hips, our large hands and feet prominently displayed open the door to possibly being "read" very wide.

Of course, many of us could be passable if we were in town for a WNBA tournament. :heehee:

[Amelie]

Judy, you look very pretty and I think you would pass as a women anytime.

DNA isn't a factor in passing, one can look like a women without the DNA of a woman.

[GG Vanya]

Judy, you look very pretty and I think you would pass as a women anytime.

DNA isn't a factor in passing, one can look like a women without the DNA of a woman.


Of course they can Amelie. You missed my point.:happy:

One Hundred Percent is an absolute which *would* require the correct DNA.

[Amelie]

No, Ididn't miss your point, I understand your point.

I still say that some men can pass 100% as women without having the DNA of a woman. I have met many transexuals that pass 100% as women. There is no way that you can say for certain that you can read every transexual on the streets and say for certain that they are men dressed as women. I don't believe that you or anyone on this forum can read every t-girl out there as a man.

There are some that pass 100% and I think Judy is one of them. If this wasn'r a cd forum I would think of her as a girl.

[Lisa Golightly]

One Hundred Percent is an absolute which *would* require the correct DNA.

The missing word 'passable' does not require DNA whether it be 1% or 100%.

Passable means... Satisfactory but not outstanding.

Don't you just love semantics. :)

I actually think Judy looks better than passable.

[GG Vanya]

No, Ididn't miss your point, I understand your point.

I still say that some men can pass 100% as women without having the DNA of a woman. I have met many transexuals that pass 100% as women. There is no way that you can say for certain that you can read every transexual on the streets and say for certain that they are men dressed as women. I don't believe that you or anyone on this forum can read every t-girl out there as a man.

There are some that pass 100% and I think Judy is one of them. If this wasn'r a cd forum I would think of her as a girl.


But Amelie, you're talking about TS's and I'm talking about CD's. And Judy has even admitted she has the "legs of a running back". (I think that was her description.)

Pictures are one dimensional.

Apples and Oranges dear. :happy:

[Amelie]

How is a cd that much different from a cd? We are all under the transgender umbrella. At what point does a cd that becomes a TS, thet this person is now passable?
I don't understand thje complete difference from a cd to a transexual in their outward appearance. Does hormones nmake that much of a change in their face?


OK let's talk about cds. So you are telling me that you can spot everytime a cd when out and about? You can tell 100% that someone is either a man or a woman? You have this ability to tell everytime the difference between people?

I can not tell evey time, I an sure that you can not either.


Transexuals don't have DNA of a woman. These people still have male DNA yet they pass 100% as woman, well most of them.

[GG Vanya]

How is a cd that much different from a cd? We are all under the transgender umbrella. At what point does a cd that becomes a TS, thet this person is now passable?
I don't understand thje complete difference from a cd to a transexual in their outward appearance. Does hormones nmake that much of a change in their face?


OK let's talk about cds. So you are telling me that you can spot everytime a cd when out and about? You can tell 100% that someone is either a man or a woman? You have this ability to tell everytime the difference between people?

I can not tell evey time, I an sure that you can not either.


Transexuals don't have DNA of a woman. These people still have male DNA yet they pass 100% as woman, well most of them.

Amelie,

TS's are different in that *usually* they are on hormones. This changes many things in the body. Edges soften, breasts grow, faces change. Some undergo SRS, FFS, breast implants and liposuction (relocation of natural fat cells) These changes make a genetic male "pass" easier as a genetic female.

No, I never said *I* can spot a CD every time when out and about. I'd be a fool to make that claim. I do feel that, given the fact that I am married to a CD and know the tell tale signs to look for, I spot them much more often and quickly than the average "non CD involved" person on the street.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

"Of course, many of us could be passable if we were in town for a WNBA tournament. " -- Nike!!

NOW THAT IS FUNNY(in a dark way)!!! what a great quote..by the way...i'm a fanatical bowler and you just gave me a great idea!!!! LOL

anyway...

vanya...thanks for the thoughtful response...i was not singling out your post but yours was one of the ones that i found more mean spirited than supportive..it seemed more like you were attacking her than giving her advice..

i post pics and adventures all the time, and practically all the responses i get are "you go girl!!" "You are totally passable!" etc....i know thats not really true but i enjoy the support... i notice i've never had a gg comment on my posts, and certainly have not had you chime and tell me what my flaws were
(NO NEED TO START NOW!!!!! LOL)

in the end, you mentioned that the "100% passable, size 0, and juicy bits" references kinda sparked your interest and i totally understand your point that we can be overly supportive and i'm not a mind reader so if you werent trying to be mean than i beleive you and i can easily leave it at that..


i think maybe i could try to stick a fork in this because judy is very obviously MUCH MORE PASSABLE than most of us here, and had a UNIQUELY POSITIVE AND GUTSY first time out and posted a very detailed and excited description of it and a couple people were skeptical...thats kind of the bottom line..

semantics of passing vs not passing are fun to talk about, but if you agree that passing is not being called out as a guy, then she passed..

and finally, i was in the closet and very repressed as a crossdresser because i love my wife and family, but as i couldnt stop thinking about it and it was effecting my mental health, i came out to my wife and she decided to leave me...so my feelings about that issue are clouded by that experience as i would gladly "not dress or minimally dress" to stay married but i don't have that chance

i dont judge my wife, she has every right to her feelings and so i am trying to be the best divorced father to my kids

but i also try not to judge other people (especially married x-dressers) because i know how confusing and scary it can be...

take care
michele

[Amelie]

I thought when you said for one to be 100% passable they would have to have the DNA of a female, to me, this meant that you could then tell who is a man and who is a women, because men could never be 100% passable in your views. So I thought that you could tell that when you see someone that you could tell that they were a man or a woman. So if you can't say for certain who is a male and a female then one doesn't need the DNA of a woman in order to pass as one. This is my point,, the DNA means nothing in passing.

And I'll say it again. i really believe that judy passes 100%.

[GG Vanya]

"Of course, many of us could be passable if we were in town for a WNBA tournament. " -- Nike!!

NOW THAT IS FUNNY(in a dark way)!!! what a great quote..by the way...i'm a fanatical bowler and you just gave me a great idea!!!! LOL

That wicked sense of humor is part of the reason I love her so much. :D

anyway...

vanya...thanks for the thoughtful response...i was not singling out your post but yours was one of the ones that i found more mean spirited than supportive..it seemed more like you were attacking her than giving her advice..

I even *said* I wasn't trying to be offensive, and that Trudi has some of the same problems with her hands, etc.

i post pics and adventures all the time, and practically all the responses i get are "you go girl!!" "You are totally passable!" etc....i know thats not really true but i enjoy the support... i notice i've never had a gg comment on my posts, and certainly have not had you chime and tell me what my flaws were
(NO NEED TO START NOW!!!!! LOL)

You've never claimed to be ONE HUNDRED PERCENT passable either have ya. :devil:

in the end, you mentioned that the "100% passable, size 0, and juicy bits" references kinda sparked your interest and i totally understand your point that we can be overly supportive and i'm not a mind reader so if you werent trying to be mean than i beleive you and i can easily leave it at that..

The perils of communication via the written word. :sad:

i think maybe i could try to stick a fork in this because judy is very obviously MUCH MORE PASSABLE than most of us here, and had a UNIQUELY POSITIVE AND GUTSY first time out and posted a very detailed and excited description of it and a couple people were skeptical...thats kind of the bottom line..

semantics of passing vs not passing are fun to talk about, but if you agree that passing is not being called out as a guy, then she passed..

and finally, i was in the closet and very repressed as a crossdresser because i love my wife and family, but as i couldnt stop thinking about it and it was effecting my mental health, i came out to my wife and she decided to leave me...so my feelings about that issue are clouded by that experience as i would gladly "not dress or minimally dress" to stay married but i don't have that chance

i dont judge my wife, she has every right to her feelings and so i am trying to be the best divorced father to my kids

I can well understand this. Trudi's first wife divorced her over the CDing. Trudi's greatest regret is that she was forced into becoming "Uncle Dad" aka the weekend Father to her two sons.

but i also try not to judge other people (especially married x-dressers) because i know how confusing and scary it can be...

Whether we want to own up to it or not, we all judge, to some degree. There was only one perfect person, and he ended up on a cross.

take care
michele

Thank you for your response...

[GG Vanya]

I thought when you said for one to be 100% passable they would have to have the DNA of a female, to me, this meant that you could then tell who is a man and who is a women, because men could never be 100% passable in your views. So I thought that you could tell that when you see someone that you could tell that they were a man or a woman. So if you can't say for certain who is a male and a female then one doesn't need the DNA of a woman in order to pass as one. This is my point,, the DNA means nothing in passing.

And I'll say it again. i really believe that judy passes 100%.

In the *clinical* sense of the word Amelie, a genetic male can never be a genetic female. Sounds redundant to type this, but this is the point I am trying to make. One Hundred Percent *is* an absolute.
If you had (God forbid) some terrible disease, and went into hospital posing as a female, tests would soon prove that you don't *pass*.

I've yet to see anyone checking DNA on the street. Hopefully it won't come to this, but with "homeland security" running rampant and unchecked, who knows?

Now, I believe I've made my point, and you've made yours. Can we agree to disagree here?

[Amelie]

Yes, we can agree that we both disagree, But you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that hospital dna testing bit.

I think that you are just nit picking at the phrase that Judy used when she said 100%. Just let her use this phrase without being so picky with her use of 100%.

[GG Vanya]

LOL Amelie,

You needed the last word, ok you have it. :D

[Amelie]

Your right,,lol

This is the last word.

This

[Tamara Croft]

Since this thread is done and turned into a slanging match, it is now being closed. You have all made your point, some good, some bad, some down right nasty. Some have even taken over this thread, which should have been done in PM. Judy, on behalf of the staff, I'd like to apologise for some of the rudeness and arrogance some members have chosen to show you.