Do we need help?

[fionasboots]

This is part of the continuing saga of my life at present (see the 'fun' I've been having on this thread http://crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36516).

Things obviously aren't resolved by any means yet and there's alot more ahead. However, it's getting somewhat easier in that the worst is over (hopefully); my wife knows, my parents know, her parents know.

In fact, just as an aside: my wifes brother and his wife now know as my mother-in-law told them - my wife was quite annoyed with her for that, though it may work out to be a good thing as my brother and sister-in-law seem to just find it funny and not threatening in the slightest.

Which brings me to the topic of this thread. Basically I talked to my wifes mother and father, the latter was calm but said he didn't want to see me again while this was going on, he was also disappointed and hurt.

My mother-in-law was actually more angry and one thing she said stuck with me; I have explained that I dressed a little for many years (some while married) and I didn't fully appreciate what I was doing, what I was. I used all the denial excuses of it being stress or a phase I was going through etc.

My mother-in-law said that I must have been stupid and she said I should have sought help when I was doing stuff like that.

Wait a minute! Help? And this is when it hit me, she really really does seem to think that this is some illness, something I should have gone to the doctors about and got a pill to cure me!

I know 99.9999% of you will immediately post and say "no, not an illness" and I agree. However, I just wonder where this idea of illness comes from? Has anyone here been treated as if they are ill?

[Brianna Lovely]

Hi Fiona, Gay people have been around since the beginning of time, but, were thought of as "mentally ill", until very recently. Although I'm rather new to this forum, why would anyone think that CDing would NOT be seen as an "illness"?
I think many people still act on "caveman" instincts, "if you don't know what it is, run away, or kill it". So, if you are different from the "norm", you need to be "fixed" or destroyed.

[tekla west]

Some might well regard CD as a mental Illness, I have not read the latest DSM-IV, current ed.


Transvestic Fetishism

Category

Paraphilias and Sexual Disorders

Etiology

There are different theories related to this disorder, many stemming from the psychoanalytic camp. They suggest that childhood trauma (e.g., sexual abuse, or other significant sexual experience) or significant childhood experiences can manifest itself in exhibitionistic behavior.

Symptoms

This diagnosis is used for heterosexual males who have sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing (wearing female clothing). To be considered diagnosable, the fantasies, urges, or behaviors must cause significant distress in the individual or be disruptive to his or her everyday functioning.

Treatment

Treatment typically involves psychotherapy aimed at uncovering and working through the underlying cause of the behavior.

Prognosis

Prognosis is fair. With some individuals, there may also be an underlying discomfort with gender identity which will complicate treatment prognosis. As with most disorders in this category, other issues may arise as treatment progresses and should be addressed.

Note, this does not cover all crossdressing, but spicific acts within the dressing.

it differs from

Gender Identity Disorder

Category

Sexual Disorders and Dysfunctions

Etiology

Theories suggest that childhood issues may play a role in this disorder, such as the parent-child relationship at an early age and the identification a child is able to make with the parents of the same gender.

Symptoms

A strong and persistent identification with the opposite gender. There is a sense of discomfort in their own gender and may feel they were ‘born the wrong sex.’ This has been confused with cross-dressing or Transvestic Fetishism, but all are distinct diagnoses.

Treatment

Other disorders may be present with this one, including depression, anxiety, relationship difficulties, and personality disorders, and homosexuality is present in a majority of the cases. Treatment is likely to be long-term with small gains made on underlying issues as treatment progresses.

Prognosis

Mixed. The goals of treatment are not as clear as in other disorders, as same-sex identification may be very difficult to achieve. More achievable goals may include acceptance of assigned gender and resolution of other difficulties such as depression or anxiety.

again, this does not cover all crossdressing.

[sparks]

Uh? According to the Tekla diagnosis I need help!
Actually some folks need help and some handle this stuff fine. Sometimes I do and Sometimes I don't.

[tekla west]

Hey, not my diagnosis, I'm not that kind of doctor, that's basic psychiatric manual, I just did the research.

[Lisa Golightly]

Crossdressing has been an established art far longer than psychoanalysis.

My one piece of advice to you is BEWARE those people who seek to cure you... they really are the odd ones.

[fionasboots]

Hey Tekla, that does make really scarey reading!

It's particularly worrying that you could reverse the reasoning and suggest that someone thus diagnosed may have had some trauma or abuse during childhood!

Who writes this stuff!

For the record, nope, I can't think of anything in childhood that was traumatic in the slightest!

And yes, I'm certainly steering clear of this whole "cure" idea, I'm just sad that it is being viewed by my in-laws as something that needs curing.

Out of interest *my* parents came up with a slightly different analogy, my mum said it was maybe like smoking. To a degree I suppose there are similarities (the main point my mum was trying to make was about giving up).

When it comes down to it the smoking analogy is probably not much better than it being something that needs a "cure", the implication being it's still something that I need to give up.

[Lisa Golightly]

The line I ran by everyone I told which made them sit back and think was... If you love the person that I am then you have already accepted that I crossdress, as without crossdressing I would not be this person.

P.S. I used to smoke 40 a day, and you can tell your mum from me... It's nothing like quitting smoking ;)

[Kate Simmons]

I don't blame anyone for who I am. To paraphrase another blurb: "I don't suffer from crossdressing, I enjoy every minute of it!" Kay

[TVStevie]

Treatment

Other disorders may be present with this one, including depression, anxiety, relationship difficulties, and personality disorders, and homosexuality is present in a majority of the cases. Treatment is likely to be long-term with small gains made on underlying issues as treatment progresses.


This is my biggest bone of contention with the DSM-IV classification, because depression, anxiety and relationship difficulties can all occur due to not having an understanding partner. They used to categorise homosexuality as a mental illness, citing the figure of a 25% suicide rate amongst gays as validation. When homosexuality became more accepted, the suicide rate dropped to a comparable level with the rest of society.

Not sure about the bit above though - "homosexuality is present in the majority of the cases", but I might be misinterpreting it. I'm fairly sure that most CD's are heterosexual.

[Sandra]

IMO people who think CDing is an illness know nothing about it, perhaps if they educated themselves a little then they may understand it a bit more.

[Clare]

Hey Fiona. Just out of curiosity, when your Mum found out about crossdressing, did she say 'I always wondered why you were different to the other boys?'

As in, there have been many instances where Moms have always suspected something unusual about their Son's and it wasn't until the crossdressing revelation that they realised what it was that confused them.

[Teresa Amina]

The only help most of us need is to find self-acceptance, and then to be accepted by others (the tougher part!). Isn't that one of the reasons we come here?

[Eugenie]

I know 99.9999% of you will immediately post and say "no, not an illness" and I agree. However, I just wonder where this idea of illness comes from? Has anyone here been treated as if they are ill?

I also think that x-dressing is not an illness.

With regard to your question of where it comes from that x-dressing could be considered an illness, there can be several explanations.

For the public at large, x-dressing is "not normal" hence it results from a mental illness. So there should be a therapy. Of course I don't believe that.

More reasonable is the idea that a passion such as X-dressing can become so pervasive that it occupies each and every moments of one's life. That can be quite a problem but it isn't unique to x-dressing. Some people become passionate with all sorts of things and go up to the point where nothing else counts in their lives. For these situations I think that a therapy becomes necessary.

But that's just an oppinion on the subject.
:hugs:
Eugenie

[Karren H]

You sure she didn't mean professional help so that you looked better enfemme? Hehe.


Well my wife likened it to alcholism initally, so I think anything that anyone sees as not typical or normal to them can be deamed an afliction! Some think that being left handed is an afliction!

Maybe we need to define the normal human being and allow everyone within 2 standard deviations of that to be called normalish and everyone else be escorted off the the "non-normal happy place". Hehehe. Sign me up as long as I can wear a cute nurses uniform!! :D Would completely change the defination of "Deviant"....or would it?

Love Karren

[Charleen]

No! Unless it's advice on how to come to terms with who we are, how to improve our appearance, how to cope in the world,ect.. Love and xxxx, Lily

[Dana Carlton]

Can I use it as an excuse to call in sick to work? Sorry boss, my crossdressing is acting up and I won't be in today!

[SherriePall]

To my understanding CDing has been removed from the list of mental illnesses. It wasn't that long ago that it was classified as such. I remember my sister going for some nurses' training at a mental hospital outside Baltimore. CDing was one of the illnesses they treated there (you could be committed). Add that to the list of reasons I didn't tell my wife about me until about seven years ago.

[Siobhan Marie]

I know what and who I am and as far as I'm concerned thats good enough for me. I don't need some "head-doctor" trying to pick the peanuts out of it for me!!

:hugs: Anna x

[Robin Leigh]

Before the Internet, any information of any kind on transgender topics was very minimal. So how did psychiatrists arrive at their theories about crossdressing? From crossdressers that have gone to therapy, by choice or through force. Such people are not going to give a proper, balanced impression of the CD world.

For a lot of straight people, anyone who doesn't conform to the standard gender/sexual stereotypes is a deviant, and therefore must be mentally ill. Herd mentality dictates that deviation must be dealt with. It's normal for herd animals to ostracize deviants, but a true human embraces diversity.

It is now legally acceptable to be gay in many parts of the world, but it wasn't when I was growing up. I've met gay people that have been imprisoned and forced to go through therapy. :sad: Now, to be gay is (legally) sanctioned and homophobic action is a crime. After all homophobia is a phobia - a mental disease. Of course, homophobia is still rife, laws don't change things overnight, but it is certainly a lot better for young gays growing up these days than what it was in the 50s, 60s or 70s.

The transgender community seems to be roughly a generation behind the gay community in gaining general acceptance. I think this is partly because trans people don't need contact with other trans people to be trans and we have traditionally been very discrete, but you can't be gay if you don't socialize with at least one other gay person. :) So the gay community is naturally more connected than the trans community. Another factor is that the term "transgender" covers a lot of territory. We are a very diverse group, apart from the fact that we have non-standard gender "issues".

Ironically, your stereotypical gay-hater doesn't see much difference between gay & trans... even some sympathetic straights see trans as just a more extreme version of homosexuality, and just can't figure hetero crossdressers at all. :)

Getting back to the topic of mental illness. Crossdressing is a narcissistic activity, and a well-balanced personality is not overly self-centered. A deeply closeted crossdresser will tend to be more narcissistic than someone who dresses up & goes out to socialize. But what's wrong with narcissistic activity, if it doesn't dominate your life? Reading a book for pleasure is narcissistic, is that sick? And I'm not even going to mention solo sporting activities... :)

By the time your average transgendered person has reached adulthood, they are bound to have had some traumatic emotional experiences relating to their gender, self identity & social conditioning. I firmly believe that being trangendered is a normal human variation, not some diseased state. However, we've been adversely affected by the social conditioning process, where everyone is treated as if they are destined to be model citizen of their proper gender group. But we don't respond to gender cues the way we're supposed to. This interferes with the normal social conditioning process. And when we begin to realize that we don't fit the mould, we start to feel alienated.

Crossdressing isn't a symptom of some underlying mental illness, but growing up as a crossdresser may be hazardous to your mental health. :) We have to deal with self-esteem issues that arise because we were taught to be gay- & trans- phobic. We can take a while to understand our gender issues as distinct from our sexuality; this could take decades in the days before the internet. We go through issues in our sexual relationships that are non-existent for straight people but that can cause us & our partners a lot of emotional wear & tear. Trying to lead a male & a female life takes a lot of time & may lead to insufficient sleep, with it's attendant physical & mental problems. If you spend all your spare time inside dressing up, you may also find you have Seasonal Affective Depression (SAD). Also, keeping a big secret to yourself can make you neurotic, or even a little psychotic. (But I'm not paranoid, they really are laughing at me.:) )

The journey may be tough, but you learn a lot about yourself & human nature from a perspective that the non-transgendered will never know. Our activities may seem frivolous & self-indulgent to outsiders, but they don't know the sleepless hours we've spent thinking about our gender issues.

Sorry about the long post. I hope it makes some sense.

[RikkiOfLA]

To be considered diagnosable, the fantasies, urges, or behaviors must cause significant distress in the individual or be disruptive to his or her everyday functioning. again, this does not cover all crossdressing.

Please read this carefully. It says that crossdressing is not a problem, unless it causes problems for the crossdresser.

In other words, it is our responsibility to integrate crossdressing into our lives. To decide when and where we're going to dress, how we're going to dress, to explain it to those who need to know, and so on. And the testimony of many, many happy crossdressers is that this can be done. It works for me.

Now if I can just find my red boots...

Love and respect,
Rikki

[Stephenie S]

Rikki has the correct interpretation. If your CDing (or whatever else) is interfering with your life, it's a problem. Then you need help. Otherwise, why bother?

Drinking alcohol (a legal and widely used drug) is a common practice in our society. There is no need to be "cured" of drinking alcohol. When this starts to interfere with our lives (drunkedness, abuse and violence, absenteeism, etc.) then it becomes a problem you need help with, and you need to be "cured".

We can extend the same analogy to CDing. When it starts to interfere with our lives, then we may need help. We know it can't be "cured", but we may need help to put the whole issue into perspective so we can get on with our lives.

Fiona's parents and in-laws may be thinking that once she gets "help" with this problem it will go away. We all know this will likely never happen. Perhaps they will be able to learn more from some web sites or literature that Fiona could provide. (And we all told you to prepare for this, didn't we, Fiona?) Sorry, dear, that just sort of slipped out.

In any case we all know that CDing is not a sickness, but it can get out of hand and begin to interfere with everything else we need to do in this life. I really don't see or read much evidence that that happens much around here. Most of us seem to have made a pretty good adjustment to this aspect of our personality. Now if we could just get all the others around us to do so too . . . . . .

Ok, I have rambled on enough. Got to do some work.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[nishababe]

Hi Fiona ,

Sorry to hear about your ongoing problems .

I find it rather tragically comical though about the thoughts of your relatives who think that this very ''Nasty'' and annoying habit of yours of enjoying wearing ladies clothes can be removed by self discipline and therapy !!

Can you imagine the conversation if a magic anti c/d pill suddenly became available !!

''I wont be in for work ( monday ) today as I caught a nasty dose of crossdressingitus over the weekend .

I think I might have got it from a dodgy curry made by a ladyboy chef in the local Thai Restaurant on saturday night .

I have been to see the doctor and he says if I take the anti c/d antibiotics 3 times a day for 5 days ,then I should be able to return to work by next monday week .

Anyway the doctor says that I should be able to take the dress ,panties ,
stockings and suspenders off within 5 days without any adverse reactions ,at the moment though damnitt i am still enjoying it all !!

You got to laugh otherwise you would cry !!

Best Wishes Nishababe :love:

[Calliope]

I think big damage came out of Freud who more or less saw life itself, certainly freedom, as pathological.

Sick dude.